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h9826790

macrumors P6
Apr 3, 2014
16,656
8,587
Hong Kong
Are the Mac Pro firmware images signed or is it possible to try to edit them to switch support from (for example) X5677 to the X5687 or add support to the dual core X5698.

Has anyone looked into this before?

From memory, when we looking for NVMe solution, a member here claim that he has a project (for study) to add NVMe support at the firmware level to the cMP (make it bootable). So, may be it's not signed. But who dare to mod that and risk to brick their own cMP? It's really not something that a normal users willing to do.
 

eksu

macrumors 6502
Aug 3, 2017
329
151
From memory, when we looking for NVMe solution, a member here claim that he has a project (for study) to add NVMe support at the firmware level to the cMP (make it bootable). So, may be it's not signed. But who dare to mod that and risk to brick their own cMP? It's really not something that a normal users willing to do.

In the next few months I'll be buying a dual tray for my new Mac 4,1 (got it for $200 with single tray) and when I do I'd be happy to play around with flashing my single tray board.

Obviously I'm hoping it's as easy as switching the CPU-ID's in the blob but I can tinker more than that. It's not worth it for the slightly faster quad core, but I think having 2x4.4ghz dual cores would be very interesting. Or maybe even with the single tray I could get one of the classified chips that goes higher (4.66ghz?) http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/intel-ships-a-4-4ghz-xeon-x5698.html

Alternately, firmware editing could open the door for overclocking on a specific chip via flashes.

Can you link me to that user's comments on modding NVMe support?
 
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h9826790

macrumors P6
Apr 3, 2014
16,656
8,587
Hong Kong
In the next few months I'll be buying a dual tray for my new Mac 4,1 (got it for $200 with single tray) and when I do I'd be happy to play around with flashing my single tray board.

Obviously I'm hoping it's as easy as switching the CPU-ID's in the blob but I can tinker more than that. It's not worth it for the slightly faster quad core, but I think having 2x4.4ghz dual cores would be very interesting. Or maybe even with the single tray I could get one of the classified chips that goes higher (4.66ghz?) http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/intel-ships-a-4-4ghz-xeon-x5698.html

Alternately, firmware editing could open the door for overclocking on a specific chip via flashes.

Can you link me to that user's comments on modding NVMe support?

May be you will intereted in this post

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/nvme-for-mac-pro-5-1.1919972/page-8#post-22370210
 
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bax2003

Cancelled
Dec 25, 2011
947
203
I successfully upgraded MP 4.1 8c 2.26 to 5.1 12c 2.26. Multi CPU score jumped from 13800 to 25600.
I recommend "vice only" delidding method - surprisingly easy with good stable vice.
 
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simon lefisch

macrumors 65816
Sep 29, 2014
1,006
253
Hey guys,

I have a question about using a dual Xeon in a single 5,1 Mac Pro.

I read in the first post that
Installing a single "Dual Xeon" processor into a single-processor Mac Pro works fine, and actually increases it's maximum RAM from 56 to 64GB.
Can someone clarify what that means? Are the X56xx processors linked by default? I see a bunch of single processors on eBay. Would one of those increase the RAM, or should I have to buy the dual processor kit?

Forgive the noob question. I recently purchased a Mac Pro 5,1 and am trying to understand how they work best. I have built PC towers and have a MBP so I'm versed in the OS and PC hardware but Mac towers are a different breed.
 

flowrider

macrumors 604
Nov 23, 2012
7,321
3,003
X56xx CPUs will operate in a single or dual configuration. W36xx CPUs will operate only in a single processor configuration. The X56xx series will handle more RAM in a cMP (4,1 or 5,1) than an W36xx series.

Lou
 

simon lefisch

macrumors 65816
Sep 29, 2014
1,006
253
X56xx CPUs will operate in a single or dual configuration. W36xx CPUs will operate only in a single processor configuration. The X56xx series will handle more RAM in a cMP (4,1 or 5,1) than an W36xx series.

Lou

But I don't need to buy a dual-Xeon set, correct? Just purchasing a single X56xx CPU will do.
 

flowrider

macrumors 604
Nov 23, 2012
7,321
3,003
^^^^Yes!

I hope this doesn't confuse anyone, but I wrote this 3 years ago:

Intel's Part Number Descriptions Explained here:

Intel has changed what the leading Alpha means. The change happened when going from the 35XX (55XX) to the 36XX (56XX) series.

In the older series it meant:

E = Enterprise and CPUs with a TDP of 80 Watts
X = Accelerated and CPUs with a TDP of 95 Watts
W = Workstation and CPUs with a TDP of 130 Watts

and in every case the leading numeric after the alpha meant:

3 = for single CPU use only (1 x I/O Bus)
5 = for dual CPU use, but will work in single CPU applications (2 x I/O Bus)

the the later series, the above nomenclature rules stayed constant EXCEPT - The "X" prefix means accelerated (95 or 130 watt TDP) and is only used on CPUs with a 2 x I/O bus. The "W" prefix is now used only in the single CPU series (1 X I/O Bus).

In any case in both series, the meaning of leading numeric after the alpha has remained the same. A "3" for CPUs with a 1 x I/O bus and a "5" for CPUs with a 2 X I/O Bus.

I hope this makes sense to you. It took me awhile to figure it out.

Lou
 

appleakak

macrumors newbie
Aug 28, 2017
21
2
Bokkow and I have created a Mac Pro CPU compatibility list. The intent is to cover all relevant and compatible CPU upgrades for all Mac Pros. These are asked about over and over and over again, so I thought it would be nice to have it all in one place.

Constructive criticism, corrections to errors, pointing out omissions, etc. are all welcome. My intent is, after the content matures, to turn this first post into a wiki so that anyone can maintain it going forward from there.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is 2687w v2 compatible with mac pro 2013?

Notes:
  • Any and all information here may be incorrect. Use at your own risk.
  • This list only includes CPUs that I have found verification for. This includes anything offered by Apple (BTO/CTO), third party upgrade guides and commercial services (such as Barefeats, OWC, or xlr8yourmac), or simply individuals claiming personal success in a forum somewhere (such as MacRumors and Netkas). There are probably many unverified CPUs that work, but these are not listed.
  • Memory speed is included in these charts. This is important because in some cases the CPU choice makes a difference.
  • Upgrading to a higher TDP (wattage) processor may increase temperatures and/or fan speed at max load. Macs Fan Control is a popular way to control your Mac's fan and it is available for both OS X and Windows, unlike most Mac fan software.
  • Some used CPUs for sale on Ebay and elsewhere are Intel Engineering Samples. You can read more about these here, but they are basically "beta" versions of the CPU provided to OEMs for testing. These may or may not work in a Mac Pro. In my research at least one person bought an engineering sample that didn't work. Since Intel only loans them out and never sells them, they can also be considered stolen property.
KeyDescription
-Not compatible
xCompatible
x*Compatible, but see notes about firmware update
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mac Pro 6,1
  • 128GB maximum RAM
ArchitectureCoresGradeCPU-ModelGHzRAMWatt
Ivy-Bridge12 coreDual XeonE5-2697 V22.71866130W
Ivy-Bridge12 coreDual XeonE5-2696 V22.51866130W
Ivy-Bridge10 coreDual XeonE5-2690 V23.01866130W
Ivy-Bridge10 coreDual XeonE5-2680 V22.81866115W
Ivy-Bridge8 coreDual XeonE5-2667 V23.31866130W
Ivy-Bridge8 coreDual XeonE5-2673 V23.31866110W
Ivy-Bridge8 coreDual XeonE5-1680 V23.01866130W
Ivy-Bridge6 coreDual XeonE5-1660 V23.71866130W
Ivy-Bridge6 coreDual XeonE5-1650 V23.51866130W
Ivy-Bridge4 coreDual XeonE5-1620 V23.71866130W

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mac Pro 5,1 and 4,1
Xserve 3,1

  • Maximum RAM:
    • 56GB in a single-processor Mac Pro using a single-processor-capable Xeon
    • 64GB in a single-processor Mac Pro using a dual-processor-capable Xeon
    • 160GB in a dual-processor Mac Pro
    • 48GB for a single-processor Xserve
    • 96GB in a dual-processor Xserve
  • For the 4,1 to use Westmere CPUs and run RAM at 1333, it will need the firmware upgrade to 5,1, found here: http://forum.netkas.org/index.php/topic,852.0.html
  • 5,1 Mac Pros shipped with 1333 RAM even when paired with a Nehalem (1066 only) processor. As shipped, the RAM runs at 1066 because of the CPU. However, if you upgrade to a 1333-capable CPU, your RAM will run at 1333 after an NVRAM reset.
  • Installing a single "Dual Xeon" processor into a single-processor Mac Pro works fine, and actually increases its maximum RAM from 56 to 64GB.
  • Installing just one single-processor-model CPU into a dual-processor Mac Pro technically works, but this causes an error state with the CPU fan going full blast.
  • For two CPUs, you must install two "Dual Xeon" processors. You cannot use two i7 or single Xeon processors.
  • The X#### CPU's tend to have a slightly higher maximum temperature rating than their W#### equivalents.
  • 4,1 dual-processor Mac Pro uses a special, "lidless" CPUs (the single-processor models use normal CPUs). This has a different height than the normal CPUs, so if you upgrade a dual-processor 4,1 Mac Pro with different processors, you need to deal with the height difference. There are several ways to do this:
    • Buy CPUs that someone has already de-lidded.
    • Buy normal CPUs and de-lid them yourself. Here is thread about delidding yourself and here is a video. (And here is a post warning against delidding yourself.)
    • Buy normal CPUs and pay for de-lidding service.
    • Keep the lids on, but be extremely careful about not tightening down the heat sink too much. (If you don't remove the lids it is very easy to tighten down the heat sink screws too much on a CPU that's too large, resulting in damage to the socket, CPU, and/or board.)
    • Other people have kept the lids on, but added washer stacks (of equivalent height to the lid difference) to where the tightening screws go--this is intended to prevent the heat sink from overtightening and causing damage. Here is an informational washer stack thread, and here is a really good post with pictures and a step-by-step procedure.
    • If you keep the lids on, the existing heat pad won't reach the heat sink due to the extra height of the lids. You need to make up for this gap by replacing the heat pad with a thicker pad.
  • The Xserve 3,1 uses lidless CPUs for both single-CPU and double-CPU models. We don't know if the washer-stack trick will work in Xserves as they are physically different than MP, but the other solutions should work.
  • No, the X5687 (3.6GHz quad-core) and the X5698 (4.4GHz dual-core) do not work in Mac Pros. I don't want to list every CPU that doesn't work with a Mac, but these two are asked about often enough to include here, and they've been verified as not working.

ArchitectureCoresGradeCPU-Model GHzRAMWattMP4,1MP5,1XS3,1
Westmere6 coreDual XeonX56903.461333130Wx*x-
Westmere6 coreDual XeonX56803.331333130Wx*x-
Westmere6 coreDual XeonX56793.21066115Wx*x-
Westmere6 coreDual XeonX56753.06133395Wx*x-
Westmere6 coreDual XeonX56702.93133395Wx*x-
Westmere6 coreDual XeonX56602.8133395Wx*x-
Westmere6 coreDual XeonX56502.66133395Wx*x-
Westmere6 coreDual XeonE56592.53133380Wx*x-
Westmere6 coreDual XeonE56452.4133380Wx*x-
Westmere6 coreDual XeonL56392.13133360Wx*x-
Westmere6 coreXeonW36903.461333130Wx*x-
Westmere6 coreXeonW36803.331333130Wx*x-
Westmere6 coreXeonW36703.21066130Wx*x-
Westmere6 coreConsumeri7 990X3.461066130Wx*x-
Westmere6 coreConsumeri7 980X3.331066130Wx*x-
Westmere6 coreConsumeri7 9703.21066130Wx*x-
Westmere4 coreDual XeonX56873.61333130W---
Westmere4 coreDual XeonX56773.461333130Wx*x-
Westmere4 coreDual XeonX56723.2133395Wx*x-
Westmere4 coreDual XeonX56673.06133395Wx*x-
Westmere4 coreDual XeonX56472.931066130Wx*x-
Westmere4 coreDual XeonE56402.66106680Wx*x-
Westmere4 coreDual XeonE56302.53106680Wx*x-
Westmere4 coreDual XeonE56202.4106680Wx*x-
Westmere2 coreDual XeonX56984.41333130W---
Nehalem4 coreDual XeonW55903.331333130Wxx-
Nehalem4 coreDual XeonW55803.21333130Wxx-
Nehalem4 coreDual XeonX55702.93133395Wxxx
Nehalem4 coreDual XeonX55602.8133395Wxx-
Nehalem4 coreDual XeonX55502.66133395Wxxx
Nehalem4 coreDual XeonE55402.53106680Wxx-
Nehalem4 coreDual XeonE55302.4106680Wxx-
Nehalem4 coreDual XeonE55202.26106680Wxxx
Nehalem4 coreXeonW35803.331333130Wxx-
Nehalem4 coreXeonW35703.21333130Wxx-
Nehalem4 coreXeonW35653.21066130Wxx-
Nehalem4 coreXeonW35402.931066130Wxx-
Nehalem4 coreXeonW35302.81066130Wxx-
Nehalem4 coreXeonW35202.661066130Wxx-
Nehalem4 coreConsumeri7 9753.331066130Wxx-
Nehalem4 coreConsumeri7 9653.21066130Wxx-
Nehalem4 coreConsumeri7 9603.21066130Wxx-
Nehalem4 coreConsumeri7 9503.061066130Wxx-
Nehalem4 coreConsumeri7 9402.931066130Wxx-
Nehalem4 coreConsumeri7 9302.81066130Wxx-
Nehalem4 coreConsumeri7 9202.661066130Wxx-
* Requires 4,1 to 5,1 firmware upgrade

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mac Pro 3,1
Xserve 2,1

  • 64GB maximum RAM
  • The 3,1 MP is not compatible with all steppings. Processors with a 5-digit sSpec starting with "SLB" do not work. Those that start with "SLA" work. The sSpec is marked on the top of the processor. sSpec numbers listed in this table should work.
  • The 3,1 single-processor Mac Pro can be upgraded to dual-processor by adding a second CPU and appropriate heat sink. The CPUs must match including sSpec, so either get a second CPU that matches your existing CPU, or get two matching CPUs.
ArchitectureCoresGradeCPU-ModelsSpecGHzRAMWattMP3,1XS2,1
Harpertown4 coreDual XeonX5482SLANZ3.2800150Wx-
Harpertown4 coreDual XeonX5460SLANP3.16667120Wx-
Harpertown4 coreDual XeonE5472SLANR3.080080Wxx
Harpertown4 coreDual XeonX5472SLASA3.0800120Wx-
Harpertown4 coreDual XeonX5450SLASB3.0667120Wx-
Harpertown4 coreDual XeonE5440SLANS2.8366780Wx-
Harpertown4 coreDual XeonE5462SLANT2.880080Wxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mac Pro 2,1 and 1,1
Xserve 1,1

  • 32GB maximum RAM for 1,1 (increases to 64GB if flashed with 2,1 firmware)
  • 64GB maximum RAM for 2,1
  • For the 1,1 to use Clovertown CPUs properly, it needs a firmware flashed to 2,1.
  • The 1,1 to 2,1 firmware flash requires Snow Leopard (or newer) to run. It can be found here: http://forum.netkas.org/index.php/topic,1094.0.html
ArchitectureCoresGradeCPU-ModelsSpecSteppingGHzRAMWatt** (TDP)Watt** (idle)MP1,1MP2,1XS1,1
Clovertown4 coreDual XeonX5365SLAC3B33.0667150W50Wx*x-
Clovertown4 coreDual XeonX5365SLAEDG03.0667120W25Wx*x-
Clovertown4 coreDual XeonX5355SLAC4B32.66667120W50Wx*x-
Clovertown4 coreDual XeonX5355SL9YMB32.66667120W50Wx*x-
Clovertown4 coreDual XeonX5355SLAEGG02.66667120W25Wx*x-
Clovertown4 coreDual XeonE5345SL9YLB32.3366780Wn/ax*xx
Clovertown4 coreDual XeonE5345SLAC5B32.3366780Wn/ax*xx
Clovertown4 coreDual XeonE5345SLAEJG02.3366780Wn/ax*xx
Clovertown4 coreDual XeonE5340SL9MYn/a2.453380W30Wx*xx
Clovertown4 coreDual XeonE5340n/aG02.466780W25Wx*xx
Clovertown4 coreDual XeonL5335SLAENG02.066750W24Wx*xx
Clovertown4 coreDual XeonL5320SLA4QB31.8653350W24Wx*x-
Clovertown4 coreDual XeonL5320SLAC9B31.8653350W24Wx*x-
Clovertown4 coreDual XeonL5320SLAEPG01.8653350W24Wx*x-
Clovertown4 coreDual XeonE5320SL9MVB31.8653380W30Wx*x-
Clovertown4 coreDual XeonE5320SLACBB31.8653380W30Wx*x-
Clovertown4 coreDual XeonE5320SLAEMG01.8653380W30Wx*x-
Woodcrest2 coreDual Xeon5160SL9RTB23.066780Wn/axxx
Woodcrest2 coreDual Xeon5160SLABSB23.066780Wn/axxx
Woodcrest2 coreDual Xeon5160SLAG9G03.066765W8Wxxx
Woodcrest2 coreDual Xeon5150SL9RUB22.6666765W24Wxxx
Woodcrest2 coreDual Xeon5150SLABMB22.6666765W24Wxxx
Woodcrest2 coreDual Xeon5150SLAGAG02.6666765W8Wxxx
Woodcrest2 coreDual Xeon5130SL9RXB22.066765W27Wxxx
Woodcrest2 coreDual Xeon5130SLABPB22.066765W27Wxxx
Woodcrest2 coreDual Xeon5130SLAGCG02.066765W27Wxxx
* 1,1 to 2,1 firmware upgrade recommended for stepping G0, _strongly_ recommended for earlier steppings.
** Values per CPU (-> x2 in a MP). Upgrade from DualCore to QuadCore CPU's usually requires fan control adjustments prior to stepping G0.


Sources used (among others): Techreport.com, Wikipedia.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Credit
  • Thanks to Bokkow for helping with this. The information is formatted and presented nicely due to his work with BBCode tables, and he has contributed with a lot of the data as well.
  • Thanks to MacEFIROM and Netkas for creating and providing the firmware updates for Mac Pro. This has enabled countless people to upgrade to a newer generation of CPUs, which wouldn't be possible without the effort made by these two.
  • Thanks to everyone who ever upgraded a CPU and took the time to post about it here--there's a chance it was your post I saw that led to a CPU being verified above.
  • Thanks to those who took the time, money, and risk to shove more memory in their computer than others said was possible.
  • Thanks to everyone who helps to push the limits and usefulness of our computers.
  • Thanks to MacRumors and the mods for providing such a great forum for the above to happen in the first place. Especially the mod Arn, for enabling BBCode tables for this.
 

ActionableMango

macrumors G3
Original poster
Sep 21, 2010
9,613
6,909
I saw that thread too. I was wondering if someone could share their long term experience with that chip. please not that it has 150 TDP so it may work initially but did it gave long term issue because of overheating. Also is this processor really fast (it seems quite fast on paper).

For the highest chance of a response, I suggest you PM the author of that thread. He might not randomly see your posts and I suspect that this particular CPU is an extremely rare CPU replacement choice for Mac Pros.
 

flowrider

macrumors 604
Nov 23, 2012
7,321
3,003
I saw that thread too. I was wondering if someone could share their long term experience with that chip. please not that it has 150 TDP so it may work initially but did it gave long term issue because of overheating. Also is this processor really fast (it seems quite fast on paper).


Looks like your question got answered:p

Lou
 

LightBulbFun

macrumors 68030
Nov 17, 2013
2,900
3,195
London UK
Just posted this in another thread But i figured id post it here as well, I was able to upgrade the CPUs in my Mac Pro 4,1 running the latest High Sierra firmware without any issues, and my ram was recognised as 1333Mhz without having to reset anything :) (I upgraded from Dual X5570s to dual X5677s the X5570s where apple lidless ones the X5677s I got for a good price pre-delided from ebay) im glad I upgraded to westmere CPUs as VMWare Fusion 10 requires Westmere or newer CPUs (as well as Apples built in Hypervisor, I wonder if VMWare fusion 10 is using apples Hypervisor now...) edit: heres a geekbench score :) https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/4234967 another edit: heres a picture of the CPUs part way through installation :)

Image-uploaded-from-i_OS-7.jpg


Screen Shot 2017-09-27 at 11.56.03.png
 
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Neodym

macrumors 68020
Jul 5, 2002
2,493
1,120
^^^^Yes!

I hope this doesn't confuse anyone, but I wrote this 3 years ago:
[...]
Lou
Nice read, Lou, many thanks! Maybe you could add that info to the first post in this thread as well, so it'd be visible at first glance.
 

marione67

macrumors newbie
Oct 7, 2017
2
0
Hi there, sometimes i see on ebay a pair of X56xx at a very good price "pulled out from a server" etc...without saying that works for a mac pro 5.1 or 4.1.
Now the question is, the xeon X56xx is only 1 type or there are ( firmware maybe? ) differences that make it compatible with a Mac or a Server PC?
Thanks! sorry my english :)
 

Joseph Z

macrumors newbie
Oct 7, 2017
5
2
Hello ActionableMango,bokkow and members in this thread,thanks for your nice work.I have got much inspiration here,and would like to share my practice,Intel Xeon L5630 runs fine in Mac Pro 5,1 with the latest EFI and High Sierra. L5630(2.13GHz, 4 cores 8 threads) is the fastest in the series of Westmere EP 40W TDP CPU,only 10W TDP per core.

5630aa.jpg
 
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h9826790

macrumors P6
Apr 3, 2014
16,656
8,587
Hong Kong
Hi there, sometimes i see on ebay a pair of X56xx at a very good price "pulled out from a server" etc...without saying that works for a mac pro 5.1 or 4.1.
Now the question is, the xeon X56xx is only 1 type or there are ( firmware maybe? ) differences that make it compatible with a Mac or a Server PC?
Thanks! sorry my english :)

Only one type, if that’s really pulled from server, then it should not be Engineering Sample (which also means good to go).
 
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h9826790

macrumors P6
Apr 3, 2014
16,656
8,587
Hong Kong
Hello ActionableMango,bokkow and members in this thread,thanks for your nice work.I have got much inspiration here,and would like to share my practice,Intel Xeon L5630 runs fine in Mac Pro 5,1 with the latest EFI and High Sierra. L5630(2.13GHz, 4 cores 8 threads) is the fastest in the series of Westmere EP 40W TDP CPU,only 10W TDP per core.

View attachment 724137

Nice, good to know there is a 40W CPU option for 5,1. Thanks for the testing.

To bad that the fans still have to keep at least equals to the stock idle setting for the north bridge cooling. Otherwise, it may be a good option to make the cMP a very quiet computer (if high CPU raw power is not required).
 

Darmok N Jalad

macrumors 603
Sep 26, 2017
5,425
48,317
Tanagra (not really)
Great thread, and I really appreciate the advice. I bought a single CPU 4,1 for dirt cheap not long ago after reading about the possibilities of the 4,1 to 5,1 mod. This thread helped me decide on what to do for a CPU upgrade, as I had the base W3520. I went with the X5670 (lower TDP, a few extra cores, higher clocks), which I got for $35 on eBay, and it increased Handbrake by ~50%! I already had an SSD installed, and I dropped in a non-EFI 7870 for another boost. Couldn't be happier for what I've paid. :)

I'm still rocking 16GB of 1066, but I may go with 1333 eventually. From what I'm gathering from this thread, I can use 8GB or possibly even 16GB DIMMs, right? I'm thinking I'll just go 3 x 8GB 1333 to maximize performance and still get a small bump in overall RAM. Any flaws in that logic?
 
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