Long story short: it's not Firefox, it's either hardware issue or osx. It will eventually crash with clean install of any os version. Some ppl have had success after replacing both graphics boards and the interconnect. Others have had no luck at all, such as myself. One thing is clear, Apple will deny deny deny and you have to be very persistent to get them to replace the hardware.
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Mac Pro (Late 2013) GPU (Driver) Issues
- Thread starter bax2003
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Long story short: it's not Firefox, it's either hardware issue or osx. It will eventually crash with clean install of any os version. Some ppl have had success after replacing both graphics boards and the interconnect. Others have had no luck at all, such as myself. One thing is clear, Apple will deny deny deny and you have to be very persistent to get them to replace the hardware.
For mine it is:
Build Year: - This unit was built in the first half of 2014.
Build Week - Week 12 (March) or week 39 (September)
Production Nr.: - This unit was number 495 to be built that week.
Coconut Battery tells me the build date is 2014-03-24.
Build Year: - This unit was built in the first half of 2014.
Build Week - Week 12 (March) or week 39 (September)
Production Nr.: - This unit was number 495 to be built that week.
Coconut Battery tells me the build date is 2014-03-24.
I'm going to try and prover whether or not FF is part of the problem. Have shifted over to Safari and will see what happens down the road. My gut tells me FF could be part of the problem.
The problem is that it doesn't fail under constant use with a clean install. The local authorized repair folks followed the instructions and it didn't fail. They refused to allow it to be shipped to them under penalty to the shop to cover the shipping and bench charges if it didn't fail. I can understand that, don't like it but understand it. If i can get it to fail in it's current restored state, THEN I will have a case.
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I do not have FF installed and I get crashes all the time. even when apple freshly installed an new operating system I got crashes!
Wish it were as simple as FF, but clearly it's general GPU usage. It's crashed on a clean install of 10.13.4 for me.
I have not had a single issue since I started using my eGPU/GTX 1080 Ti two weeks ago, outside of some lag in Adobe Premiere using hiDPI resolutions.
I have not had a single issue since I started using my eGPU/GTX 1080 Ti two weeks ago, outside of some lag in Adobe Premiere using hiDPI resolutions.
It's certainly not FF. The problem is at a lower level like the other users have said. I'm afraid that it's just a coincidence when it freezes while using software X. For me, it can freeze up twice a day... once every few days or twice a month...
So far I've had luck with the latest beta release of the operating system. It has not freezed up in over 2 weeks but I can't say that it's fixed...It's just pure luck at this point. It's a sad situation indeed....
So far I've had luck with the latest beta release of the operating system. It has not freezed up in over 2 weeks but I can't say that it's fixed...It's just pure luck at this point. It's a sad situation indeed....
Just curious, what build is that? I was on Beta 5 (I think) and got the crash a few times...
Just out of interest, those whose MP's are crashing daily, are you shutting down every night?
I have observed that after a restart it seems to crash more often. I now always put mine to sleep.
Seems to last 2-6 weeks without crashing. When it does crash and I have to force it to shut down (press and hold power button) quite often it will crash again within a couple of hours.
My restart (from crash) procedure is this*:
- Wait 30 secs after force shutdown and press power button
- When login window comes up, wait a minute or so and shut it down with buttons at the bottom of the screen.
- Wait 30 secs and restart
- Login (after 30 secs)
- If needed, run any updates that need restarts
* none of this may help but I seemed to get fewer crashes after the restart
Other thoughts:
I run dual monitors - I thought it had something to do with this at one point. Are others having problems with just one monitor?
SSL login stopped working for me for some reason. I can log in but the shutdown command didn't work
Unplugging displays and plugging them back in again did enable me to shut down safely (system was very slow) but this stopped working too
Still on 10.12.6 (not build the courage to run 10.13 yet)
I have observed that after a restart it seems to crash more often. I now always put mine to sleep.
Seems to last 2-6 weeks without crashing. When it does crash and I have to force it to shut down (press and hold power button) quite often it will crash again within a couple of hours.
My restart (from crash) procedure is this*:
- Wait 30 secs after force shutdown and press power button
- When login window comes up, wait a minute or so and shut it down with buttons at the bottom of the screen.
- Wait 30 secs and restart
- Login (after 30 secs)
- If needed, run any updates that need restarts
* none of this may help but I seemed to get fewer crashes after the restart
Other thoughts:
I run dual monitors - I thought it had something to do with this at one point. Are others having problems with just one monitor?
SSL login stopped working for me for some reason. I can log in but the shutdown command didn't work
Unplugging displays and plugging them back in again did enable me to shut down safely (system was very slow) but this stopped working too
Still on 10.12.6 (not build the courage to run 10.13 yet)
I would only shut down when it crashed, which was usually two or three times a day during higher intensity tasks (editing). When doing lighter work like web development, it would last maybe two or three days.
Single monitor here.
I know lots of people here have experienced this on 10.12 but it was my impression that the crashes were less frequent than High Sierra. I personally never got a crash until upgrading to 10.13 maybe 2-3 weeks after I bought my nMP this year.
The reason for a crash can just be the fact, that the MacPro is not switched off, but does not do anything "visible" in OS X.
Something new and interesting: Bootcamp Windows 10 started crashing (complete freeze) after the latest OS X update (maybe containing some firmware). I used to have the most recent graphics drivers from bootcampdrivers.com, but switched back to the official new Apple drivers via Apple Software Update about 3 months ago. Bootcamp became almost unusuable then.
Properly removed EVERYTHING from the Apple drivers, installed the newest one from bootcampdrivers - and quiet again. No more freezes.
BTW: Using that nice defrost app (it is in the App Store) on my iPhone lets me kill the MacPro without powercycling it. Now I get the opportunity to send a (very unfriendly) error report to Apple on every reboot.
Something new and interesting: Bootcamp Windows 10 started crashing (complete freeze) after the latest OS X update (maybe containing some firmware). I used to have the most recent graphics drivers from bootcampdrivers.com, but switched back to the official new Apple drivers via Apple Software Update about 3 months ago. Bootcamp became almost unusuable then.
Properly removed EVERYTHING from the Apple drivers, installed the newest one from bootcampdrivers - and quiet again. No more freezes.
BTW: Using that nice defrost app (it is in the App Store) on my iPhone lets me kill the MacPro without powercycling it. Now I get the opportunity to send a (very unfriendly) error report to Apple on every reboot.
my method is to press CMD+ALT+EJECT on the keyboard. this sends the Mac Poo to sleep and then it crashes, reboots and givens me an opportunity to send a polite message to apple!
Interestingly before Sierra, when I put the computer to sleep it would NOT crash, it would actually sleep and then when I woke it up it would work fine until I had to restart and the I would wait for the thing to freeze....sleep....work fine all over again!
Apple force me to update OS because I use FCPX and almost every new version requires an update to the latest OS.
I observed this behavior for a couple weeks, and then it just became untolerable, freezing every time I left the computer. One thing I did try as a crutch, that barely worked, was forcing logout and screen sleep after 3 minutes. This seemed to cause fewer crashes during the time I was away from the computer but didn't change the crashing while using.
[doublepost=1527282009][/doublepost]
I was able to send it in via chat tech support. And the apple store, as well, but one time I did send it via chat tech support. Try all avenues: chat/phone/different store.
Also, none of us should be accepting this. We paid for a product, and it should work, whether it's hardware or software issue. It's a waste of our time and money, and honestly I think most of us live in jurisdictions that provide legal remedy for lemons. Regardless, Apple has a responsibility to provide a working product.
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I'm on one of the latest 10.13.5 betas (17F45c), and I noticed that sometimes it kinda acts like windows. The screen flashes black but then it recovers. Other times it just dies as always. Maybe some progress is being made though.
I apologize for my incorrect English.
i also have problems with MP 6.1 and its video cards. I picked up my MP last Friday from the apple store in Venice (Italy). the genius told me that it has no hardware problems but MP keeps giving me kernel panic. in November 2017 apple store replaced me both A + B video cards (OW). I paid € 460. I am very sorry. I just want to bring my testimony and express my disappointment
i also have problems with MP 6.1 and its video cards. I picked up my MP last Friday from the apple store in Venice (Italy). the genius told me that it has no hardware problems but MP keeps giving me kernel panic. in November 2017 apple store replaced me both A + B video cards (OW). I paid € 460. I am very sorry. I just want to bring my testimony and express my disappointment
Anyone running the latest 10.13.5 beta or 10.13.6 beta want to share their experience? Thinking of trying 10.13.6 myself, just curious if they've updated any system kexts relating to video.
Hi..So sorry. I missed your question a few posts back. Yes..I'm on 10.13.5 beta. So far this massive piece of garbage has been up for 19 days. I've gotten burnt so many times that I still can't say that this got resolved. With my luck, it'll freeze by the time I'm done typing thisssss<>E#!!#!# (see what I did there
)I'll update to 10.13.6 shortly..
It would be very useful, if we report EVERY SINGLE crash to Apple. Not sure, if power cycling the Trashcan brings up the opportunity, but since I have the possibility to kill it remotely by software, I get a report, which can be sent to Apple. (which I do, with sarcastic comments...) Be it to annoy them, or to tell them, what is wrong. Maybe it helps...
Not on any Beta here.
Not on any Beta here.
Hi..So sorry. I missed your question a few posts back. Yes..I'm on 10.13.5 beta. So far this massive piece of garbage has been up for 19 days. I've gotten burnt so many times that I still can't say that this got resolved. With my luck, it'll freeze by the time I'm done typing thisssss<>E#!!#!# (see what I did there
Haha.. that is promising news. Can you let me know what build ID you're running before you update? (Under Apple Menu-> About This Mac) or just the beta number (eg 10.13.5 beta 5)
Using Defrost for this crash should result in an error report dialog on reboot. I report every crash... and reiterate that I paid my apple developer dues and will happily test any fix. No one's reached out to me yet though
Hi everyone,
I know there were already some discussions about the PCIe switch temperature, all went into something like "thats okay".
Subject:
If a nMP boots from cold state, the PCIe switch has already a temperature around 60 degrees celsius,
climbing to 75 degrees or more, depending on load and outside temp.
In the big and well known Anandtech article about the nMP, the PCIe switch is mentioned as a PEX8723,
not listed in their database. Maybe a special part made for Apple?
The chip is located on the I/O board, where the Thunderbolt and USB connectors are.
Anyway, the author refers to the PEX8724, which seems to be similar.
In the 8724 datasheet, this IC lists power of 5 watts and has a metal case, no heatsink.
Probably high temperatures are okay for theese chips, but I doubt in the long time durability for the IC,
the circuit board and their solderings.
Interesting is, that theese chips climbs up to high temps without heavy load from startup, and this is practically the behavior of the nMP freezes, that some people here reports.
I have no experience in digital designs, I dont know what the chip exactly does, I imagine some kind
of data switching between hardware components, to do with PCIe.
Does anyone know more about this chip, functionality, and if it is worth to give more attention to it
related to the GPU/GUI hangs?
Should we try to cool down this chip to receive more long time reliability? (fan speed, heatsink)
Thanks...
location picture from ifix it here
https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/XhGBBKpAXc3SZwGp.medium
I know there were already some discussions about the PCIe switch temperature, all went into something like "thats okay".
Subject:
If a nMP boots from cold state, the PCIe switch has already a temperature around 60 degrees celsius,
climbing to 75 degrees or more, depending on load and outside temp.
In the big and well known Anandtech article about the nMP, the PCIe switch is mentioned as a PEX8723,
not listed in their database. Maybe a special part made for Apple?
The chip is located on the I/O board, where the Thunderbolt and USB connectors are.
Anyway, the author refers to the PEX8724, which seems to be similar.
In the 8724 datasheet, this IC lists power of 5 watts and has a metal case, no heatsink.
Probably high temperatures are okay for theese chips, but I doubt in the long time durability for the IC,
the circuit board and their solderings.
Interesting is, that theese chips climbs up to high temps without heavy load from startup, and this is practically the behavior of the nMP freezes, that some people here reports.
I have no experience in digital designs, I dont know what the chip exactly does, I imagine some kind
of data switching between hardware components, to do with PCIe.
Does anyone know more about this chip, functionality, and if it is worth to give more attention to it
related to the GPU/GUI hangs?
Should we try to cool down this chip to receive more long time reliability? (fan speed, heatsink)
Thanks...
location picture from ifix it here
https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/XhGBBKpAXc3SZwGp.medium
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Hi Xde, I installed iStat Menus to monitor all kind of loads and temperatures on my device and also set the fan speed manually. Unfortunately setting the fan to maximum speed constantly does not solve the problem. Also with iStat I can see the temperature behavior from before the reboot and mostly there was absolutely no suspicious activity.
[doublepost=1527797486][/doublepost]TL;DR:
This whole **** is whack. Shall we start some kind of petition to send to apple or an online form to figure out what is not causing the problem?
Long version:
I wonder if anyone in this forum knows any nMP that does not have these problems. If so, I'd think that this is not a software problem. I mean – it could still be partly due to not properly handling GPU errors, but if there are nMPs that run without these issues, than it cant be solely a kext issue.
I've spend some more time analyzing this issue. For example I learned that if you change the display resolution that would cause some kind of GPU reset. Hence the short blackout. When a freeze occured I tried to remotely reset the display resolution via terminal, but without luck. The program that was meant to change resolution just got stuck and could not finish. While the Mac is not in a frozen state this software however works as intended.
Also as someone in this forum mentioned there is a little Adobe GPU sniffer deep inside every Adobe product. Its meant to figure out the capabilities of your GPU. When I run this while the Mac is frozen, it tells me (among a lot more information) this:
clgpu[0].CLBandwidth=0
clgpu[1].CLBandwidth=1.27349e+11
clgpu[0].CLCompute=0
clgpu[1].CLCompute=990.963
So.. there are 2 gpus one of which does not have any bandwidth. Normally these values are both almost the same.
I finally managed to get one of the GPUs repaired. After two years and countless visits to my apple reseller they finally admitted that they could detect an error (only after I had the mac tested by apple and they too told me that at least one of the GPUs is defected) I had the device back and on the next morning I had the next freeze. I let Adobe's GPU sniffer do it's thing and what a surprise – the same GPU (clpgu[0]) does not have any bandwidth. So either Apple and my reseller found a defect on the GPU that was not causing the issues or the replaced GPU is just as defective as the old one.
By now I can really not make any sense out of all of this. I still have the assumption that the order of the GPUs is not fixed and which GPU identifies as A and which is B could change while the OS is running. That could potentially cause problems if not handled properly by the operating system.
I would really like to have some kind of gathered information about all of what can be found in this forum. It just takes way too long to read all of these pages again. Maybe creating an online survey could help figure out what is going on. Let's use the swarm intelligence to figure out.
Or just hope that the next update will finally repair all of our devices. We could do that too.
Haha.. that is promising news. Can you let me know what build ID you're running before you update? (Under Apple Menu-> About This Mac) or just the beta number (eg 10.13.5 beta 5)
Using Defrost for this crash should result in an error report dialog on reboot. I report every crash... and reiterate that I paid my apple developer dues and will happily test any fix. No one's reached out to me yet though
It's version 10.13.5 Beta (17F66a)..
Ah damn.. I got some crashes under that build. Are you doing any heavy load tasks?
I'm a software guy so I use giant IDEs and build software all day long. I do that while binge watching SouthPark on Hulu
. I think here's a decent load. I'm not editing movies or anything.I don't think it's resolved either.... I got a sledgehammer near me. I think the piece of garbage is afraid of that. Maybe.
I'm not sure if the above is useful for anyone but that's all I have...It's just pure luck that it doesn't freeze while I'm doing something important.
Just the other day I was the apple store and talked to a 'genius' about the trash bin. I asked if he knew about these problems. It sounded like doesn't want to even go there. He wouldn't even talk about the pile of problems with the keyboards of the new mac book pros....
