Mac Pro Mid 2012

[sebseb]

Hi everyone,

Sorry if I'm making a new thread, I haven't had luck finding what I need.

So I have a 2010 MBP and honestly it's old now.. dual core cpu, nvidia 330m with 256Mb dedicated....

So for my next computer, I want a desktop that I can upgrade the s*** out of it, and well the iMac fails, so I guess it's the Mac Pro. And now apple is selling refurb Mac Pros and I really want one. I have learnt enough about the PCI slots thanks to this forum, so no questions there.

About the CPU, I have some doubts. I know the 2009 quad core has the cpu with IHS and the dual cpu doesn't! However I need to know if this applies to the 2012 model as well. This guy says the 2010 and 2012, single and dual processors have the IHS, while everymac.com says it's the same as 2009 model. So I'm now really confused. I would really like some insight in this.

Also do you think it's worth the 1100$ to pay extra to get the 12 core instead of the quad core?

SP Option: 2,139$
One 3.2GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon processor 8MB Cache
6GB (3 x 2GB) of 1066MHz DDR3 ECC memory
1TB Serial ATA 7200 rpm
18x SuperDrive (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)

ATI Radeon HD 5770 with 1GB GDDR5 memory

DP Option: 3,239$
Two 2.4GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon processors 12MB cache
12GB (6 x 2GB) of 1333MHz DDR3 ECC memory
* Same as above

Is 2.4 slow? I will be running a lot of CFD and CAD/CAM on this machine, and I want sth that I wont have to upgrade for at least 5 years.

Thank you so much!

 

[flowrider]

The 2009 4,1 Dual Processor MacPro is the only Mac Pro with lidless CPUs. I really don'y know what Apple was thinking here.

Lou

 

[AndyUnderscoreR]

Something you wont have to upgrade for 5 years? I think that's an optimistic lifespan for anything below a mid-spec newMacPro, let alone a 2009 machine that's already 5 years old.

Both those specs are low on ram, 12Gb is the bare minimum you can buy in a MacPro from Apple today. If you really want 5 years lifespan, I'd say save up for a new machine. By going down the 1 CPU, 2 GPU route, Apple have sent a message to developers to move as much as possible over to the GPUs, I think it's a fair bet that in 5 years even a pair of D700s will be creaking under the strain for pro apps.

 

[flowrider]

By going down the 1 CPU,

But, that one CPU can have 12 cores, the same number of cores the oMP could have with two CPUs. CPU processing power is still very strong.

Lou

 

[sebseb]

Thank you flowrider For your reply!

Abou the new Mac Pro, It would cost a lot more than I would be getting, and I really like the old design, the fact that I can change graphics, I would like to put GtX card in, fire pro is not what I'm looking for.

And isn't a dual CPU 12 core better than single 12 core CPU?

 

[sebseb]

The 2009 4,1 Dual Processor MacPro is the only Mac Pro with lidless CPUs. I really don'y know what Apple was thinking here.

Lou

If I'm correct, the 2008 model didnt have the CPUs on a sepperate board. So when they change to the new design, it was not easy to fit in CPUs with a lid, or I don't know maybe some heats ink issue! But yeah it is weird! I think apple should acknowledge that people who buy these macs are not 15 year old girls! They're people with skills that are able to pop out a CPU and put a new one in!

Only if you could change the PSU, then it would become the ultimate machine!

 

[pertusis1]

get a 2009 2.66 GHz quad core, and plan your upgrade path from there. Most people end up putting a 3.33 Hex in it (which seems to be a cost/performance sweet spot)

 

[Macsonic]

If I'm correct, the 2008 model didnt have the CPUs on a sepperate board. So when they change to the new design, it was not easy to fit in CPUs with a lid, or I don't know maybe some heats ink issue! But yeah it is weird! I think apple should acknowledge that people who buy these macs are not 15 year old girls! There people with skills that are able to pop out a CPU and put a new one in!

Only if you could change the PSU, then it would become the ultimate machine!

You can get the 2.4ghz 12 core and add more ram and then try this out using CAD. I don't use CAD so I could not make further comments. But I am also using a 12 core 2.4ghz Mac Pro for rendering After Effects and heavy graphics and adequate for my needs. And runs cool and quiet. Real world tasks is the best way to gauge what your needs are. In the future you can upgrade the CPU if you feel you need more speed. The 2010 5.1 cpu tray are much easier to upgrade than the 2009 Mac Pros CPU. I think the classic Mac Pro is a good design architecture.

 

[AidenShaw]

12 = 24 / 2

But, that one CPU can have 12 cores, the same number of cores the oMP could have with two CPUs. CPU processing power is still very strong.

But it's half the number of cores that Dell, HP, Lenovo, SuperMicro and the rest are selling in workstations.

Dell, HP, Lenovo, SuperMicro and the rest do have single socket systems - look at their "low end workstation" pages.

 

[sebseb]

The problem with buying a 2009 model is that I don't have apple warranty, so I have at least some safety there with the 2012 model, and te 2009 model is hard to upgrade the CPUs since they do not have lids and finding CPUs without lid is complicated and even though you could put one with lid, you might damage the CPU and I really don't want to do that!

You can get the 2.4ghz 12 core and add more ram and then try this out using CAD. I don't use CAD so I could not make further comments. But I am also using a 12 core 2.4ghz Mac Pro for rendering After Effects and heavy graphics and adequate for my needs. And runs cool and quiet. Real world tasks is the best way to gauge what your needs are. In the future you can upgrade the CPU if you feel you need more speed. The 2010 5.1 cpu tray are much easier to upgrade than the 2009 Mac Pros CPU. I think the classic Mac Pro is a good design architecture.

Are you happy with your system? Do you think the 2.4 is slow?? And do u have the stock 5770 or did you upgrade it?

Thanx a lot for your input! Now I'm more confident in the 12 core! The good thing about refurb is I can buy it and if it's not what I want, I have 30 days to return it!

 

[AndyUnderscoreR]

Thank you flowrider For your reply!

Abou the new Mac Pro, It would cost a lot more than I would be getting, and I really like the old design, the fact that I can change graphics, I would like to put GtX card in, fire pro is not what I'm looking for.

And isn't a dual CPU 12 core better than single 12 core CPU?

Dual Fire Pros is what every newMacPro is fitted with, so every Apple software writer will be writing for dual Fire Pros. Compatibility with GtX will be very low on developers priorities. The GtX may be faster now, but if you want to hang on to your machine for 5 years, you should think about compatibility in the long term. In 2019, who will be writing software that's optimised for a 2009 machine with a non-factory fitted GPU?

Dual 6 core is slower than single 12 core, because the single chip is newer, faster, and doesn't have to pass data via the motherboard to communicate between half it's cores.

 

[sebseb]

Dual Fire Pros is what every newMacPro is fitted with, so every Apple software writer will be writing for dual Fire Pros. Compatibility with GtX will be very low on developers priorities. The GtX may be faster now, but if you want to hang on to your machine for 5 years, you should think about compatibility in the long term. In 2019, who will be writing software that's optimised for a 2009 machine with a non-factory fitted GPU?

Dual 6 core is slower than single 12 core, because the single chip is newer, faster, and doesn't have to pass data via the motherboard to communicate between half it's cores.

Ohh yeah now that makes sense. In my defense, I will be running windows most the times, since the programs I need only run on that OS, however for my file managing, like documents and daily internet, i prefer OSX. I've had a PC machine and it makes me just angry, each day sth goes wrong with it, so that's why I can't buy a PC and with the Mac Pro, I will be running windows and osx at the same time.

I just checked the new Mac Pros, and dear lord, just upgrading the cpu to 12 core will cost me 6,500 in total. That is just expensive!! However you do have a point about it being faster. That's why I'm in a big dilemma!

Thank you!

 

[sebseb]

Also a question for you guys who understand this topic more. I have seen people put a GTX 780 or a single titan into a mac. You can find their videos on youtube and they did not use an extra PSU. However if you check the specs, the 780 and Titan need 250 Watts and even if you use the correct 6pin to 8 pin connector, the mac would still be offering 225W, 150 from the 2 Pins and 75 from the Slot its self, so where does the 25 come from, can the card grab more from the slots?? since the PSU can offer 300W for the 4 slots?

 

[flowrider]

^^^^I've been running a Gigabyte 3 fan accelerated GTX 780 (GK110A) flashed by MVC in my 5,1 Mac Pro for 8 months now on internal power. Don't know if I'd try it on a Titan or 780Ti though.

Lou

 

[CASLondon]

Thank you flowrider For your reply!

Abou the new Mac Pro, It would cost a lot more than I would be getting, and I really like the old design, the fact that I can change graphics, I would like to put GtX card in, fire pro is not what I'm looking for.

And isn't a dual CPU 12 core better than single 12 core CPU?

For multicore tasks, definitely. For applications that rely on single thread speed, for example, X-Plane 10, the speed is more important than the cores.

Rendering video is the most obvious example of software that takes advantage of multiple cores. If you work with video, you should really go dual processor, and upgrade.

You can find someone to upgrade 2009 processors if you aren't up to trying it yourself.

As pointed out above, you can upgrade a single core Mac Pro to a fast hex core

Once you flash the firmware to 5,1, there is no difference (other than that lidless cpu issue) between 2009 and 2012 models.

Graphics cards, there are all sorts of potential solutions. I have to say, like when I bought my 2011 MBP with thunderbolt knowing its the future, but that future has actually been slow in coming, the software out there has NOT been written to really use GPUs, and dual GPUs, yet. Adobe won't be there for a year or so, Final Cut X is the one application that actually does use them. So we are a few years away from the dual GPU making a difference in terms of software using them

For more information, please look at these two - first one argues FOR the 2009 for value, loads of info. Second one has info on the single hex core upgrade being the sweet spot (but not for video workers)

http://pindelski.org/Photography/technical/mac-pro/

http://macperformanceguide.com

 

[CASLondon]

Something you wont have to upgrade for 5 years? I think that's an optimistic lifespan for anything below a mid-spec newMacPro, let alone a 2009 machine that's already 5 years old.

Both those specs are low on ram, 12Gb is the bare minimum you can buy in a MacPro from Apple today. If you really want 5 years lifespan, I'd say save up for a new machine. By going down the 1 CPU, 2 GPU route, Apple have sent a message to developers to move as much as possible over to the GPUs, I think it's a fair bet that in 5 years even a pair of D700s will be creaking under the strain for pro apps.

And this is the problem. Non-upgradeable gpu in the new Mac Pro. The software is not written to really use the dual processors that are there now, but those processors will get leapfrogged, whereas in the old Mac Pro, there are many ways to adapt and upgrade GPU setups (granted, some of them need power supply solutions).

 

[AndyUnderscoreR]

And this is the problem. Non-upgradeable gpu...

The original poster specifically asked for a machine that will not be upgraded for 5 years, so that's not an issue here, even if you are correctly able to predict the behaviour of Apple's spares department from now until 2019, which I doubt!

 

[Macsonic]

Are you happy with your system? Do you think the 2.4 is slow?? And do u have the stock 5770 or did you upgrade it?

Thanx a lot for your input! Now I'm more confident in the 12 core! The good thing about refurb is I can buy it and if it's not what I want, I have 30 days to return it!

Hi Sebseb. I am happy with my machine and adequate for my needs. About the speed of the machine, depends on the user's tasks, to other pro users this machine may not be adequate for their needs. Probably best is what is your goal and if you have established your needs. Some softwares are still lagging behind hardware advancement and responds differently to hardware. There are tasks that may only have a minimal speed gain to a faster, newer hardware.

The GPU I am using are Nvidia 285gtx, Radeon 5870hd, Radeon 5770 and the Nvida 680GTX 2g. Certain graphic rendering tasks, there is not much difference between the faster 680GTX and 5770HD or 285GTX. But when it comes to heavy video rendering, the 680GTX yields smoother frame transition and it's faster. You mentioned that your priority is having warranty and budget and you like the design of the classic Mac Pro. From there more or less you can decide your choice based on your priorities. I first had to know my goals, and expectations before deciding what machine to buy and factor in the cost. With regards to upgrading that answer later on if the work gets heavier.

 

[brentsg]

Also a question for you guys who understand this topic more. I have seen people put a GTX 780 or a single titan into a mac. You can find their videos on youtube and they did not use an extra PSU. However if you check the specs, the 780 and Titan need 250 Watts and even if you use the correct 6pin to 8 pin connector, the mac would still be offering 225W, 150 from the 2 Pins and 75 from the Slot its self, so where does the 25 come from, can the card grab more from the slots?? since the PSU can offer 300W for the 4 slots?

You're covering a lot of different bases in this. The question above has been the subject of many threads spanning months/years. There's no 100% agreement on this.

Some people have had luck running out of spec, others have taken the safe route and used a second power supply.

But seriously, you're asking about running a PC that is still using SATA2 and USB2 and based on CPU technology that's 2009-10 era.. and wanting to squeeze 5 years out of it. It's going to be 10 year old stuff then. Yes, many of us have developed workarounds as time has created limitations. But why would you want to use this as your starting point?

Your software is windows based, just look to a newer Windows workstation.

 

[sebseb]

Thanx to everyone for their responses, I really appreciate the time you guys put!

I will not be doing intense movie editing, maybe from time to time I might, but it will mostly be running windows and mac at the same time, since Im tired of bootcamp.

I know the 2009 model is good for the value, but with the 2012 I just have a safe route, I know if something happens to product in a year, I can change it. Or it will not have any scratches or any damage.
Now I will probably buy the 12 core and see how the speed works. I really don't care about USB 2 or that it doesn't have thunderbolt! If it's too slow, I will return it and get the quad core and save for a new cpu!

And on the graphics card, I guess the HD 5770 has to stay until I can save some money to purchase a 680, it's perfect for the mac, doesn't consume more, so i won't be risking anything! I have a friend that works at apple HQ, but he never told me what he does, I will try to see if he can hook me up with an engineer, so he can give us some insight on this! I just think that if a graphics card requires more power than the 225W, it will take more from the slots, since apple did not lock each slot at 75W, one card might be able to pull more. Maybe all the 300W can go through one slot? if there's no other card.

I will be purchasing this computer in august, since I'm currently not in the US, and well I can't take a 40 pound computer around with me!

Again thank you guys!

 

[Macsonic]

Thanx to everyone for their responses, I really appreciate the time you guys put!

I will not be doing intense movie editing, maybe from time to time I might, but it will mostly be running windows and mac at the same time, since Im tired of bootcamp.

I know the 2009 model is good for the value, but with the 2012 I just have a safe route, I know if something happens to product in a year, I can change it. Or it will not have any scratches or any damage.
Now I will probably buy the 12 core and see how the speed works. I really don't care about USB 2 or that it doesn't have thunderbolt! If it's too slow, I will return it and get the quad core and save for a new cpu!

And on the graphics card, I guess the HD 5770 has to stay until I can save some money to purchase a 680, it's perfect for the mac, doesn't consume more, so i won't be risking anything! I have a friend that works at apple HQ, but he never told me what he does, I will try to see if he can hook me up with an engineer, so he can give us some insight on this! I just think that if a graphics card requires more power than the 225W, it will take more from the slots, since apple did not lock each slot at 75W, one card might be able to pull more. Maybe all the 300W can go through one slot? if there's no other card.

I will be purchasing this computer in august, since I'm currently not in the US, and well I can't take a 40 pound computer around with me!

Again thank you guys!

Welcome and hope you're having a great weekend. Maintenance and file managing also plays a key role in keeping the machine running fine without slowing down. I also have a 2009 Mac Pro and based from usage it performs just as fast as the 2012 or 2010 Mac Pro. Make sure you use a UPS to protect the power supply. Work files are best separated from the main boot drive. So your boot drive runs optimized. You can add a Sonnet Tempo Pro to give you Sata 3 speeds http://www.sonnettech.com/product/tempossdpro.html or USB 3.0 at http://www.amazon.com/Optimized-Por...id=1401059684&sr=8-3&keywords=inateck+USB+3.0 A minimal cost expense for a faster speed transfer.

For video cards, skilled flashers would underclock the card voltage and power consumption to make it fit the 225w of the Mac Pro. As far as I know the Nvidia 770GTX or 780GTX still fits into the Mac Pro's internal power supply. The 780 Titan will need an external power supply.

Good luck shopping for your new machine.

 

[sebseb]

Welcome and hope you're having a great weekend. Maintenance and file managing also plays a key role in keeping the machine running fine without slowing down. I also have a 2009 Mac Pro and based from usage it performs just as fast as the 2012 or 2010 Mac Pro. Make sure you use a UPS to protect the power supply. Work files are best separated from the main boot drive. So your boot drive runs optimized. You can add a Sonnet Tempo Pro to give you Sata 3 speeds http://www.sonnettech.com/product/tempossdpro.html or USB 3.0 at http://www.amazon.com/Optimized-Por...id=1401059684&sr=8-3&keywords=inateck+USB+3.0 A minimal cost expense for a faster speed transfer.

For video cards, skilled flashers would underclock the card voltage and power consumption to make it fit the 225w of the Mac Pro. As far as I know the Nvidia 770GTX or 780GTX still fits into the Mac Pro's internal power supply. The 780 Titan will need an external power supply.

Good luck shopping for your new machine.

Thanx a lot, I can't wait till I lay my hands on one. Before turning it on, I would open the door, I wanna see the inside.

I did hear people had put USB 3.0 in their Mac Pro, but I thought they were talking about the new one! So with that board from Amazon, I can get true USB 3.0 speeds? cause for 26$ it's worth it and it gives 4 ports!

One thing I might consider after a year an SSD but instead of connecting it to the hard drive bays, I heard you can buy the board and connect it directly to the PCI, something like this. Just not sure if you can choose to install the OS there and boot from it.

And you're right, I will try to purchase a 256GB SSD and run the OS from there, and use the 1TB stock drive as work files and maybe windows OS.

This is what I like about this machine, you can add stuff to it, change graphics. And I'm sure next year, they will make better graphic cards that consume less power, so you can fit those in!

While I was browsing, I did come across sth. The PCI on mac pro is version 2.0, and some cards are 3.0. How much faster is 3? and will it affect the performance a lot?

 

[Macsonic]

Thanx a lot, I can't wait till I lay my hands on one. Before turning it on, I would open the door, I wanna see the inside.

I did hear people had put USB 3.0 in their Mac Pro, but I thought they were talking about the new one! So with that board from Amazon, I can get true USB 3.0 speeds? cause for 26$ it's worth it and it gives 4 ports!

One thing I might consider after a year an SSD but instead of connecting it to the hard drive bays, I heard you can buy the board and connect it directly to the PCI, something like this. Just not sure if you can choose to install the OS there and boot from it.

And you're right, I will try to purchase a 256GB SSD and run the OS from there, and use the 1TB stock drive as work files and maybe windows OS.

This is what I like about this machine, you can add stuff to it, change graphics. And I'm sure next year, they will make better graphic cards that consume less power, so you can fit those in!

While I was browsing, I did come across sth. The PCI on mac pro is version 2.0, and some cards are 3.0. How much faster is 3? and will it affect the performance a lot?

For PCie SSD, another cheaper option is the Apricorn brand HERE

There is another thread in this forum courtesy of BDM Studios as he tested a newer version of Apricorn : https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1721573/

You would be getting SATA 3 speeds with higher read/write speeds.

The Inateck USB 3.0 is a good option and also supports other USB devices like cameras, keyboards, printers. Works with Mountain Lion 10.8.3 without the need for drivers. It's a small, low risk investment for $26

 

[flowrider]

One thing I might consider after a year an SSD but instead of connecting it to the hard drive bays, I heard you can buy the board and connect it directly to the PCI, something like this. Just not sure if you can choose to install the OS there and boot from it.

A Search would have led you here:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1418445/

Lou

 

[sebseb]

So I've been constantly checking around, I'm going insane with all these factors you gotta take in account before upgrading a Mac Pro.

About the CPU, given the fact that the 2012 models do have the cpus with IHS, then I can upgrade them, right? for a moment I forgot that intel changed its socket to LGA2011, though they still make LGA1356. Do you think this cpu will work?

it supports up to 1600Mhz of ram, if I put rams with that speed, will they run at the velocity or will they be clocked down to 1333Mhz?

Also how much Watts does the power supply offer to each cpu on the dual model, and do I need to do any firmware upgrade? will the machine recognize these cpus or do I have to look for anything else when it comes to CPU upgrade?

Thank you