Mac Pro specs for graphic designer?

[derbothaus]

I wonder how rgustafs is feeling at this point... question answered or more confused than before?

Maybe give the new designer a budget and let him/her decide what they prefer to do with it.

Agree. With all our minutia hubbub. How much do you have to spend? Do you have to worry about color in the workflow? I have truly professional design houses that do nothing with profiling. They just use Apple default in Cinema displays and iMac. They never have problems with printers etc... Or if they do they never mention it. If you have the budget get a 6-core Mac Pro. If not, get the "all in one with usable and pretty great display" iMac.

 

[rgustafs]

Mac Pro specs for graphic designer?

I am touched that you guys are so into this discussion, but I am confused and torn. We need to buy a system today/tomorrow, though I wish we knew what was coming down the pike from Apple. This designer has never used anything but a Mac to work so I am not switching them to a PC. It's hard enough to stat a new job, much less re-learn how to do things that were once mindless tasks. And for many reasons including contracts and the like (trust me on this), we won't be getting a refurbished system. So...

I am a fan of expandability, thus it seems the Mac Pro is the way to go. But...if an iMac isn't too little machine, and we can make it work for the next 2-3 years before we step it up with the big boys -- whatever that might look like at that point once we are used to having a designer -- then maybe that's the right answer?

I think the allowance isn't a bad idea, but we have to procure through a certain contractor, which requires the signatures of some 8 people before anything gets done. I think our first time out of the Mac gate (other than the iPhones/iPads that we have floating around), we just need to buy something.

I will go back through your posts carefully to see what I can figure out.

THANKS!

 

[Macsonic]

I am touched that you guys are so into this discussion, but I am confused and torn. We need to buy a system today/tomorrow, though I wish we knew what was coming down the pike from Apple. This designer has never used anything but a Mac to work so I am not switching them to a PC. It's hard enough to stat a new job, much less re-learn how to do things that were once mindless tasks. And for many reasons including contracts and the like (trust me on this), we won't be getting a refurbished system. So...

I am a fan of expandability, thus it seems the Mac Pro is the way to go. But...if an iMac isn't too little machine, and we can make it work for the next 2-3 years before we step it up with the big boys -- whatever that might look like at that point once we are used to having a designer -- then maybe that's the right answer?

I think the allowance isn't a bad idea, but we have to procure through a certain contractor, which requires the signatures of some 8 people before anything gets done. I think our first time out of the Mac gate (other than the iPhones/iPads that we have floating around), we just need to buy something.

I will go back through your posts carefully to see what I can figure out.

THANKS!

Hi rgustafs

Though both the Mac Pro and iMac are good for Graphic Print Design work, I would recommend getting the Mac Pro. This model is adequate for graphic design http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC560LL/A?

This is because Photoshop or InDesign would always need an assigned "scratch disk" or another separate physical Hard Drive as a "scratch disk" With an iMac, I would have to attached a separate external Hard Drive as the scratch disk but data would be transferred slower unlike if the Hard Drive was internal. With the Mac Pro, you can add more internal HDs and just have one of them as the "scratch disk"

Another factor is by habit I have my main boot drive, then another drive as my back up "clone drive" and the third Hard Drive as my Time Machine drive. Your designer will need to always back up whatever work he does as safety. You really never know and it helps being prepared. There was a time my main drive got corrupted and since I have my clone back up drive , it was easy to reformat quickly. Graphic design is deadline oriented so your machine must have all the means for emergencies.

We also have used iMacs for many years but the problem is they tend to have smudges-dirt forming on the edges of the screen and with design tends to be bothersome. If the warranty or apple care runs out, replacing the glass screen can be expensive.

Another option is you could always go for a second hand 2009 Mac Pro if budget is tight or a refurbished Mac Pro at the Apple Store.

Thanks

 

[rgustafs]

Okay so. 75% of what we CURRENTLY have slated for the graphic designer is only going to get as wild as designing print work that will be used online or in a PDF doc that gets shared electronically or printed on our office's HP color printers. The rest will be sent to a vendor for post-production and printing so the color correction issues are (mostly) moot. (right?)

Here's what I am thinking, and please let me know if you think I am on the right track:

iMac 3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7
16GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 4x4GB
1TB Serial ATA Drive (since we're pulling/saving from network)
AMD Radeon HD 6970M 2GB GDDR5
Apple Magic Mouse (track pad can come later if needed)
Apple Wireless Keyboard (English) & User's Guide


Then with the $$$ we save -- we're going to get the designer a MacBook Pro because we are often a 24/7 operation. So then I guess we need to start thinking specs on the MacBook, but I think we'll get the desktop first.

Anyone think that's a bad plan? And what other peripherals would make you happy as a designer (doing this basic-ish design work)?

Many, many thanks, smart people of MacRumors.

RGUSTAFS

 

[deconstruct60]

Hi rgustafs

Though both the Mac Pro and iMac are good for Graphic Print Design work, I would recommend getting the Mac Pro. This model is adequate for graphic design http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC560LL/A?
......

a $2499 Mac Pro [ no scratch disk, no monitor. ]

This is because Photoshop or InDesign would always need an assigned "scratch disk" or another separate physical Hard Drive as a "scratch disk" With an iMac, I would have to attached a separate external Hard Drive as the scratch disk but data would be transferred slower unlike if the Hard Drive was internal.

Technically not true. It is a matter of expense since Apple's mark-up on SSD drives is somewhat high.

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC814LL/A

base $1,999 27" iMac + $100 to bump graphics VRAM to 2GB + $600 to have internal 256 GB SSD + 1 TB internal drive.

$2,699 but have the monitor and scratch drive.

It is also possible to go to external drives with no peformance penalty. This "scratch disk" issue is a largely a historical issue; not a current one.


IMHO, this focusing on the Mac Pro vs. iMac missing the point. If haven't had an internal graphics person before it is likely an almost equally large amount is going to go into buy the software suite they will need. For example , the appropriate Adobe Suite, color calibration , etc. The total systems budget may bump into your pragmatic budget constraints here.

For instance, getting those 8 signatures could turn into a "death match" if the complete system costs her is 4-5 times higher than what normally goes through the gauntlet. So the generic desire for "expandability" that may/may not be used can easily run into a buzzsaw if it is another 10% increase in costs. If their are 8 signatures to gather, I extremely doubt that budget/cost isn't not going to become a gating issue.



A similar Total Lifecycle Cost factor is who does the repairs for the device. If everything is done through the contractor who buys them then the question is do they have a technician that can service iMacs. If they are doing servicing from a generic "box shaped Windows PC" technical pool then the Mac Pro will fit their constraints.

 

[wonderspark]

All I can really add at this point is DO NOT buy that RAM upgrade from Apple. Get the minimum it comes with, save that $600, and spend $110 for the exact same thing from HERE. RAM is the one easy thing to install on an iMac. It's worth $490 to loosen two screws and swap four sticks in.

You could even spend $350 for 32GB (4x8GB sticks) and still save $250 over the price of half as much RAM from Apple. Avoid the shameless markup on this.

 

[JavaTheHut]

iMac 3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7
16GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 4x4GB

Bump that up to 32GB and buy it from OWC or other "NOT Apple"
With adequate RAM there is little need for a separate scratch disk

 

[wonderspark]

From an iMac angle, I'd do this from Apple (refurb option being off the table):
3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7
4GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB
1TB Serial ATA Drive + 256GB Solid State Drive
AMD Radeon HD 6970M 2GB GDDR5
Apple Magic Mouse
Apple Wireless Keyboard

Then buy 16GB or 32GB from OWC for $110 or $350.
Total = $3009 or $3249.

Mac Pro angle:
One 3.33GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon “Westmere”
3GB (3x1GB)
1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s hard drive
ATI Radeon HD 5870 1GB
One 18x SuperDrive
Apple Magic Mouse
Apple Keyboard with Numeric Keypad

24GB RAM from OWC for $275

Dell 27" monitor from Amazon = $816

Crucial M4 256GB SSD = about $200 everywhere

Total = $5190

 

[deconstruct60]

....
1TB Serial ATA Drive (since we're pulling/saving from network)
...

This dives into technical issues but what sort of network is this?

One problem that the iMac has that the Mac Pro doesn't is dealing with "Jumbo Frames". If your current corporate file servers are just serving typical files to users then this is probably is not turned on. So it would be a non issue.

The catch though is that graphics folks typically push/pull above 'average' sized files. This InfoGraphics subsegment shouldn't trend too far over the average. As long as there is a 1Gb Ethernet switch path to the file servers this shouldn't be too painful. If it is an older corporate network with 100Mb throughput then I would suspect the designer will start to hoard more data locally even if "finished product" gets pushed onto the centralized storage.

Another lifecycle issue is where do the back-ups go? Probably onto the the network like the other PCs but there may be software to acquire for that to. Either a "Mac" client version of the software being used now or a solution that could push to a designated folder on central store ( e.g. Crashplan or something like that.)

If the designer has to "hoard" work on their system for long periods of time it probably wouldn't hurt to secure a local disk to do "time machine" back-ups to. ( depending on how often the centralized back up goes. For example if centralized is "once a day" or "once every other day" , then the more incremental backups that a local time machine disk would do has upsides. ). These supplemental back-ups would be in addition to where corporate IT wants the "official" back-ups to go.

Apple Magic Mouse (track pad can come later if needed)

Designer might ask for one of these before a track pad.

http://www.wacom.com/en/Products/Intuos.aspx

What size is a judgement call. Even more so, if going to "share" one with a MacBook Pro when on the go.

Anyone think that's a bad plan? And what other peripherals would make you happy as a designer (doing this basic-ish design work)?

This may/may not help if designer is being placed in some common bullpen cube with stereotypical overhead lighting.

http://www.photodon.com/p/112-IM27.html

It won't solve all lighting problems, but if it is just overhead lights that are the major glare problem it could help.

 

[thekev]

Hi rgustafs

Though both the Mac Pro and iMac are good for Graphic Print Design work, I would recommend getting the Mac Pro. This model is adequate for graphic design http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC560LL/A?

This is because Photoshop or InDesign would always need an assigned "scratch disk" or another separate physical Hard Drive as a "scratch disk" With an iMac, I would have to attached a separate external Hard Drive as the scratch disk but data would be transferred slower unlike if the Hard Drive was internal. With the Mac Pro, you can add more internal HDs and just have one of them as the "scratch disk"

The dedicated scratch disk is bordering on arcane at this point given that especially with CS6, we're hitting a point where you can throw ram at it. They are most likely dealing with 8bpc cmyk files with whatever layers, and that won't be difficult on modern hardware. Looking at the established storage system here, I don't think the internal drives will be a huge factor.

Okay so. 75% of what we CURRENTLY have slated for the graphic designer is only going to get as wild as designing print work that will be used online or in a PDF doc that gets shared electronically or printed on our office's HP color printers. The rest will be sent to a vendor for post-production and printing so the color correction issues are (mostly) moot. (right?)

Here's what I am thinking, and please let me know if you think I am on the right track:

iMac 3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7
16GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 4x4GB
1TB Serial ATA Drive (since we're pulling/saving from network)
AMD Radeon HD 6970M 2GB GDDR5
Apple Magic Mouse (track pad can come later if needed)
Apple Wireless Keyboard (English) & User's Guide


Then with the $$$ we save -- we're going to get the designer a MacBook Pro because we are often a 24/7 operation. So then I guess we need to start thinking specs on the MacBook, but I think we'll get the desktop first.

Anyone think that's a bad plan? And what other peripherals would make you happy as a designer (doing this basic-ish design work)?

Many, many thanks, smart people of MacRumors.

RGUSTAFS

I agree with deconstruct that the designer may prefer a tablet. It can be much more efficient and ergonomic especially for free hand type work. It just depends how detailed. The extra vram may guarantee you some longevity there, as Creative Suite 6 recommends at least 1GB of vram. It may never be an issue. I'd probably order the ram separately, but I'd go from a place that guarantees it and tests on macs to ensure against downtime. Since imacs are annoying to service, I would run something like memtest on it and perhaps a few hours of prime95 to ensure that it's in good working condition when it arrives. I'd personally do the same with a mac pro as I like to verify that everything is in perfect working order on a new machine.

Also it sounds like a good setup. Not getting blasted by window lighting is important, but I'd still consider that important with a matte display. For anything visual, too much light hitting the display can be annoying. Either it's reflective, or you get to look at sparkles because LG uses cheap coatings . Some of the older NECs used a softer matte coating, but even then too much light could have a subtle influence on the look. I don't think an SSD is critical. A modern HDD that isn't completely filled with work files + a lot of ram can provide excellent performance. I don't think you'd gain much in productivity for that $600 SSD option from Apple. OWC published some tests on ram a while back. Even with 10-15k (square) test files, above a certain amount of ram, it pushed gains from the SSD off the table. Getting 16GB of ram isn't even expensive anymore. You can buy it from one of the third party retailers for $100. If you're working at really high resolutions with many layers and extra channels, and/or many applications open at once, 32GB is cheap enough. Most people will be happy with 16.

This may/may not help if designer is being placed in some common bullpen cube with stereotypical overhead lighting.

http://www.photodon.com/p/112-IM27.html

It won't solve all lighting problems, but if it is just overhead lights that are the major glare problem it could help.

The way you describe things is still extremely funny. "Bullpen cube". "Thunderbolt + usb3 makes for a good family feud."

I'm going to turn one of these into my sig, because they're completely awesome.

Anyway on the wacom thing, size preferences vary. Most of the photo labs and studios here stuck with intuos 3 9x12s for a very long time. I'd probably look up reviews on the current large tablet. Medium is comfortable for some people. It's just on a large display a small tablet can feel weird in terms of mapping. You move your hand slightly, and the cursor jumps much further. The OP could ask the designer on this one. Medium is around $300. Large runs around $400-450. I'd look up reviews on the intuos5. The intuos4 had a lot of problems in that nibs and surfaces wore down really fast. You can replace nibs by pulling the original with a pair of needle nosed pliers, but it's annoying to do this frequently.

 

[salmoally]

I hope he just got an iMac in the end. The mac pro is a giant waste of money for graphic design and indesign.

Most graphics/illustrator studios I've been to are either on iMacs or Macbook Pros with a ACD/3rd party external display. I have a large network of friends who are graphic designers and none own a mac pro.

 

[derbothaus]

I hope he just got an iMac in the end. The mac pro is a giant waste of money for graphic design and indesign.

Most graphics/illustrator studios I've been to are either on iMacs or Macbook Pros with a ACD/3rd party external display. I have a large network of friends who are graphic designers and none own a mac pro.

At home, yes. In the enterprise a Mac Pro ROI is better. But a power waste for InDesign and illustrator. If you are primarily Photoshop then a Pro could be your jam.