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Mac3Duser

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Aug 26, 2021
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I don't understand the current evolution of Macs. I'm not saying that there are products engraved in stone of the Apple tradition that must be absolutely respected, but even the names are strange for me. Let me explain.
1. basic configurations, without price change, should be 16/512
2. there was a range of consistent products: Macbook / Macbook air / Macbook pro, and currently we understand that the MacBook Air M1 is the MacBook, that the Air should be in M3, that the MacBook Pro M3 does not have really of interest compared to the macbook pro m3 pro.
3. why maintain a mac mini m2 when the m3 comes out? why not create a mac mini with a new design?
4. The iMac was really the most seen device in all graphic design agencies, publishing houses, etc... It had a design, a serious side, something easy without cables everywhere. Today the 24 format is not large enough for these uses, and we find ourselves with ordinary screens and Mac minis... design agencies or schools will lose this chic side.
5. the mac pro and the mac studio are totally redundant now that we are all apple silicon. Why maintain products with m2 ultra when m3 max is just as powerful? I find it much more logical to create an apple silicon mac studio and keep a mac pro in xeon / amd or xeon / nvidia now that AI and ML are so important.
 
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mattspace

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I don't understand the current evolution of Macs. I'm not saying that there are products engraved in stone of the Apple tradition that must be absolutely respected, but even the names are strange for me. Let me explain.
1. basic configurations, without price change, should be 16/512

Basic Mac configurations are designed to align with iPad capacities. The iPad and the Low end Mac are on trck to just be the same device with modified OS and peripheral capbilities.

Apple is lying when it says macOS and iOS ae not merging. They are, just not at the UI level.

2. there was a range of consistent products: Macbook / Macbook air / Macbook pro, and currently we understand that the MacBook Air M1 is the MacBook, that the Air should be in M3, that the MacBook Pro M3 does not have really of interest compared to the macbook pro m3 pro.

A clear product range only happens when a product-focussed leadership runs a product-focussed company. Apple has a services-focussed leadership of a rentseeking-focussed company.

The Mac now is where it was when Performas made up the majority of the range.

3. why maintain a mac mini m2 when the m3 comes out? why not create a mac mini with a new design?

ROI on development costs. The M2 is sticking around in the iPad, the Vision Pro, it'll make its way to the AppleTV etc. Apple's going to give theses chips Celeron-style lifecycles.

4. The iMac was really the most seen device in all graphic design agencies, publishing houses, etc... It had a design, a serious side, something easy without cables everywhere. Today the 24 format is not large enough for these uses, and we find ourselves with ordinary screens and Mac minis... design agencies or schools will lose this chic side.

It was also the only machine *available* for them to buy. They didn't have the option of a sub-pro desktop with reasonable discreet graphics and a retina screen, outside of an iMac.

The stuff about fetishising a lack of cables was marketing propaganda. No one actually cared about that against the option of being able to swap out the computer or the display independently. The convenience of no cables was a self-soothing thing people used to cover up for the fact they knew the AIO was an inflexible solution, that painted them into the corner.

5. the mac pro and the mac studio are totally redundant now that we are all apple silicon. Why maintain products with m2 ultra when m3 max is just as powerful? I find it much more logical to create an apple silicon mac studio and keep a mac pro in xeon / amd or xeon / nvidia now that AI and ML are so important.

M2 Ultra has more display support, which is important when you don't support real GPUs. Apple has always believed it can redefine markets based on what proucts it offers - ergo by not offering discreet GPUs, that somehow discreet GPUs will go away in the larger industry picture. Personally I don't think that will happen - I think it's far more liely that the Mac will just be drowned under lower-ambition software, like the way modern macOS is drowning in secondrate Catalyst and iOS-Port SwiftUI software.

No argument about the Xeon Mac Pro, but then Apple would be competing with Lenovo's P-series, and more importantly, giving developers reasons to say "requires a Mac Pro" on apps.
 
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Mac3Duser

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Aug 26, 2021
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Basic Mac configurations are designed to align with iPad capacities. The iPad and the Low end Mac are on trck to just be the same device with modified OS and peripheral capbilities.

Apple is lying when it says macOS and iOS ae not merging. They are, just not at the UI level.
Interesting. But why then don't they offer dual boot on iPad Pros?
A clear product range only happens when a product-focussed leadership runs a product-focussed company. Apple has a services-focussed leadership of a rentseeking-focussed company.

The Mac now is where it was when Performas made up the majority of the range.
Performas were not the macs' best moment...
ROI on development costs. The M2 is sticking around in the iPad, the Vision Pro, it'll make its way to the AppleTV etc. Apple's going to give theses chips Celeron-style lifecycles.
it is urgent to update other macs with the m3, otherwise, most customers will wait for the update and the mac will sell even less well... but I am not a marketing director , then I must be wrong.
It was also the only machine *available* for them to buy. They didn't have the option of a sub-pro desktop with reasonable discreet graphics and a retina screen, outside of an iMac.
I think that in many cases, the Mac is an aesthetic machine and chosen for that.
M2 Ultra has more display support, which is important when you don't support real GPUs. Apple has always believed it can redefine markets based on what proucts it offers - ergo by not offering discreet GPUs, that somehow discreet GPUs will go away in the larger industry picture. Personally I don't think that will happen - I think it's far more liely that the Mac will just be drowned under lower-ambition software, like the way modern macOS is drowning in secondrate Catalyst and iOS-Port SwiftUI software.

No argument about the Xeon Mac Pro, but then Apple would be competing with Lenovo's P-series, and more importantly, giving developers reasons to say "requires a Mac Pro" on apps.
yes, in competition with Dell, Lenovo, HP, Puget workstations... And soon also with ARM workstations which accept Nvidia graphics cards (for the moment the drivers are only available on Ubuntu)... and I thought that the Mac Pro was a versatile and fast workstation for long and secure calculations.
this video is interesting:

 
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mattspace

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Interesting. But why then don't they offer dual boot on iPad Pros?

Because then you could buy just one device. If you want a computer that doesn't place constant roadblocks in your way with pointless restrictions, which can run applications that don't get killed the moment they use more than a tiny fraction of the available memory, AND you want a drawing tablet, you have to buy two of basically the same device.

Performas were not the macs' best moment...

A million different configuations, each specialised with limited postpurchase reconfiguability, and often made by repositioning older technoogy. Sound familiar?

it is urgent to update other macs with the m3, otherwise, most customers will wait for the update and the mac will sell even less well... but I am not a marketing director , then I must be wrong.

Companies go broke very slowly, then very quickly. Eventually the realisation will set in that commonality with iOS and macOS only meant poor iPad apps coming to dominate the Mac, it'll be an entire operating system of Word 6s

But, the mac really doesn't matter if services revenue is strong, and services will overtake the mac eventually.


I think that in many cases, the Mac is an aesthetic machine and chosen for that.

The Studio Display is aesthetic enough, no one's goung to notice the Mini on the desk next to, or beneath it.

yes, in competition with Dell, Lenovo, HP, Puget workstations... And soon also with ARM workstations which accept Nvidia graphics cards (for the moment the drivers are only available on Ubuntu)... and I thought that the Mac Pro was a versatile and fast workstation for long and secure calculations.
this video is interesting:


It will be very interesting to see if workstations for ARM that maintain Xeon levels of expandability and upgradabiity become a thing.
 

ZombiePhysicist

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Hopefully clickbait'y


M3 Ultra Mac Studio rumored to debut in mid-2024 — without a Mac Pro​

…The report doesn't make any specific mention of a Mac Pro using the chipset, however. It's not clear if this is an accidental omission, or an intentional statement.

Well it also doesnt report that water is wet, but you know, that's still a thing. If there is no update, it will be pretty sad. And sadly, not at all surprising.
 
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AdamBuker

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Hopefully clickbait'y




Well it also doesnt report that water is wet, but you know, that's still a thing. If there is no update, it will be pretty sad. And sadly, not at all surprising.
I don't see why at minimum they wouldn't upgrade the next MacPro to an M3 Ultra. 32 core CPU with 24P+8E, 256 GB RAM, 80 core GPU with presumably more PCIe bandwidth might make this machine more of a usable solution for more people than the current 2023 model. I do see them sticking with PCIe 4.0 but with more available lanes instead of going to PCIe 5.0. It still won't fill a lot of use cases that the old Mac Pro's and PowerMacs used to, but it will be a nicer machine than what came before. Honestly, I would be more surprised if Apple didn't update the MacPro when the new Studio comes out with M3 Max/Ultra.
 
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StuAff

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Fingers crossed, for those who want it, that the next MP (s) sort out the issues that the 2023- and AS in general- has for those running 2019s and earlier. The days of 'potentially upgrade everything' are gone, almost certainly forever. The lack of flexibility in CPU/GPU configurations isn't going to go away either. If you want 'fairly modest CPU but whacking great GPU', sorry, nothing for you here. Anyone who wants those options is going to have to switch to AMD or Intel. I wouldn't blame them for that. Craft Computing just tested the NVIDIA RTX 4000 SFF Ada Generation- a monster card (and monster price, just under £1500) that sips power at 70W yet is barely slower than Apple's 6900X MPX. I'd hazard a guess that even with the advantages of Apple's UMA implementation, that would be a very attractive GPU solution for your average (if such a person exists) Mac Pro customer. Four of them on some new version of MPX modules… ?!

With that said, with time there will be mitigations for some of the current issues. If the suggested quad-die solution ever emerges, that immediately doubles UMA and presumably available PCIe bandwidth as well. M3 Extreme would (theoretically) be 64 CPU cores, 160 GPU, and 512GB UMA maximum. But some of course, would still want more- and have to go elsewhere. I very much doubt we'll ever see something powerful and flexible enough to answer all the critics (if there was, of course, great). But 'most of the people, most of the time' might just be satisfied. And perhaps Apple might just work out that £3k for PCIe slots, an extra Ethernet port and a couple of TB4 ports isn't good pricing. If they'd priced the M2 Ultra at the same price as the 8-core 2019 (£5499 in UK) they'd tempt Studio buyers to spend a bit more, not dissaude them.
(Hanging on for M3 Ultra Studio, but would prefer less-gougingly priced M3 Ultra Mac Pro).
 
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mattspace

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If you want 'fairly modest CPU but whacking great GPU', sorry, nothing for you here. Anyone who wants those options is going to have to switch to AMD or Intel. I wouldn't blame them for that. Craft Computing just tested the NVIDIA RTX 4000 SFF Ada Generation- a monster card (and monster price, just under £1500) that sips power at 70W yet is barely slower than Apple's 6900X MPX. I'd hazard a guess that even with the advantages of Apple's UMA implementation, that would be a very attractive GPU solution for your average (if such a person exists) Mac Pro customer. Four of them on some new version of MPX modules… ?!

Or one of the ARM-based workstations that are starting to sneak out, which use traditional slotbox paradigms. Presuming ARM has a long future, and isn't going hit a wall the way Alpha and PPC did, those machines may have a significant future.

Honestly, I think UMA is going to turn out to be like many of the "advances" Apple makes - really good tomorrow, but today we have this. And tomorrow, it's the same slogan. That's been their pattern for a long time - spruiking the future of a technology that is eclipsed by alternatives, before it reaches the promised maturity.

FireWire 3200 anyone?
 

ZombiePhysicist

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Fingers crossed, for those who want it, that the next MP (s) sort out the issues that the 2023- and AS in general- has for those running 2019s and earlier. The days of 'potentially upgrade everything' are gone, almost certainly forever. The lack of flexibility in CPU/GPU configurations isn't going to go away either. If you want 'fairly modest CPU but whacking great GPU', sorry, nothing for you here. Anyone who wants those options is going to have to switch to AMD or Intel. I wouldn't blame them for that. Craft Computing just tested the NVIDIA RTX 4000 SFF Ada Generation- a monster card (and monster price, just under £1500) that sips power at 70W yet is barely slower than Apple's 6900X MPX. I'd hazard a guess that even with the advantages of Apple's UMA implementation, that would be a very attractive GPU solution for your average (if such a person exists) Mac Pro customer. Four of them on some new version of MPX modules… ?!

With that said, with time there will be mitigations for some of the current issues. If the suggested quad-die solution ever emerges, that immediately doubles UMA and presumably available PCIe bandwidth as well. M3 Extreme would (theoretically) be 64 CPU cores, 160 GPU, and 512GB UMA maximum. But some of course, would still want more- and have to go elsewhere. I very much doubt we'll ever see something powerful and flexible enough to answer all the critics (if there was, of course, great). But 'most of the people, most of the time' might just be satisfied. And perhaps Apple might just work out that £3k for PCIe slots, an extra Ethernet port and a couple of TB4 ports isn't good pricing. If they'd priced the M2 Ultra at the same price as the 8-core 2019 (£5499 in UK) they'd tempt Studio buyers to spend a bit more, not dissaude them.
(Hanging on for M3 Ultra Studio, but would prefer less-gougingly priced M3 Ultra Mac Pro).

They need to add ECC, extreme version of the chip with 512GB ram, ability to add a GPU, and the slots we have now.

Not ideal, but it would be "enough" of the way there to act as a bridge. Continued improvements will eventually get RAM north of 1TB. It's all doable and they may even consider slotted memory having a dual memory architecture like some of the intel boards that have SoC ram acting like a cache and still having a larger pool of slotted ram).

The biggest piece is support for at least a few GPUs. It's not that big a deal for apple to provide support, but not clear if they will.

Not sure they have bandwidth to do anything other than the Vision Pro. 2023 and 2024 are basically throw away years where they dont really do anything (because the team of actual doers in the company is just a few dozen people and the rest are wasteful barnacles preventing progress IMO), i.e., there will be little mac innovation/updates and even little iPhone innovation/updates in 2024 and probably 2025 because of all the diverted talent on Vision Pro.
 
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avro707

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They need to add ECC, extreme version of the chip with 512GB ram, ability to add a GPU, and the slots we have now.

However, they have to make sure that any GPU that could be added will only work with that particular next Mac Pro.

It must NOT be compatible with previous versions like the 2023 model or the 2019. Apple has to remember to not do anything that would extend the useful life of those older machines.
 
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ZombiePhysicist

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However, they have to make sure that any GPU that could be added will only work with that particular next Mac Pro.

It must NOT be compatible with previous versions like the 2023 model or the 2019. Apple has to remember to not do anything that would extend the useful life of those older machines.

Sadly not far fetched. If they support the AMD 7xxx series, and write the drivers ONLY as ASi drivers, that would accomplish it, sadly.
 

ZombiePhysicist

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What if Apple actually makes their own ASi/Metal GPUs, so one can add GPU horsepower to a Mac Pro, but it is not AMD or Nvidia (or Intel), but an Apple silicon GPU...?

If they are at least as good as the Amd cards it may be enough.
 
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ZombiePhysicist

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Will the Vision Pro suck all the oxygen out of Apple’s upcoming HEDT offerings in 2024?

More sad it proves that Apple only has a few dozen A team engineers that “can do”. The rest are do nothing progress impeding barnacles. It needs a Steve Jobs to come back and fire huge portions of the company like when he came back to save the company and restore a sense of urgency and startup innovation fire.

Tim Cook is just a loser like John Skully but has a bigger cash cow to burn through money wise. He has been a blight for innovation at the company and worse he sucks at operations because he’s created a company completely dependent on hostile china, and his “diversification” these days is to bring more work to hostile communist Vietnam. Thankfully also to India but none to Europe the us or South America. A failure at business 101 diversification.

Anyway, apples lack of innovation and talent is really starting to show. I’m hoping the Vision Pro can somehow start turning things around, but I’m afraid it reinforces my fear as that being an exception to what is otherwise a new rule of stagnation at Apple.
 

deconstruct60

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Will the Vision Pro suck all the oxygen out of Apple’s upcoming HEDT offerings in 2024?

That article has several weak=as-water insights there pretending to be thoughtful analysis. It is more click bait than forecasting.

" ... And speaking of the M3 Ultra, I wouldn’t be surprised if this also slips to next year, given how long it took for the M2 Ultra to launch after the M2. ..."

is basically rubbish. The Mx Ultra timing is very likely timed after the appearance of the Mx Max ; not the 'plain' Mx (which is a very substantively different die). If Apple is having 'Max-es' made then getting to 'Ultras' made isn't a huge leap. For example:

M1 Max ( in MPB 14/16" October 2021 ) ---> M1 Ultra ( in Mac Studio March 2022 ) about 4-5 months later.

M2 Max ( in MPB 14/16" Janurary 2023 ) --> M2 Ultra ( in MS and MP 2023 ) about 5-6 months later.

rumours about Mac Studio in June 2024 ... surprise , surprise , surprise about 8 months later (pretty close to 5-6 month range).

How that is indicative of a slide into 2025 is just all smoke. The pattern for the Ultra this time is likely going to be a bit slower than the other two, but mainly because there will probably be a ramp of M3 Pro and M3 dies going on at the same time. MBA will get an update ( in late Spring or so). [ pretty good chance iPad Pro goes M3 first since the iPads basically 'missed' all of 2023. ] And ditto for the Mini. Plus N3B wafers take longer to 'bake' . ( it is like driving a heavy loaded freight train or a super oil tanker ... takes a while to get going on new direction. ) .

How Apple shipped the M3 , M3 Pro , and M3 Max at about the same time should bust the myth that there 'has to be' some long, long , long delay to bigger packages. It is more a matter of timing of what Apple wants to do (and amount of 'excess' TSMC capacity available. Probably helped that Intel flaked on a relatively large amount of N3B consumption in 2023 .) than 'big packages always have to come a huge time later.'



Next up ... new Mac are doomed if don't get a OLED screen. That is just nonsense. Apple's track record is slowly adopting panel changes. ( gap years between Retina macbook books and new Mini-LED panels is quite long. ACD 30" sold for around 8 years . The Thunderbolt display sold for around 8 years. The 5K display ... sold for more than several years . etc. etc. )

The iMac Pro (big screen) isn't coming soon. Pretty good chance will never come. Apple has state they have shipped the large screen intel iMac replacement. It is the Studio. There are no good signs that Apple wants to ship a large screen iMac for many of the same reasons folks in Mac Pro forums ranted on how the Intel iMac Pro wasn't a good replacement for the Intel Mac Pro. Even the 24" iMac went almost 3 years without an update. The iMac is NOT Apple's primary desktop product anymore. The laptops as 'good enough desktop' for most people is primary push (single cable docked to a larger USB-C monitor is a 'desktop' solution) . The Mini , Mini Pro , Studio are next up ( also docked to a larger screens of various price points). The iMac is now in the status the Intel Mini was for last decade or so before transition ( updated every 4-5 years as somewhat of a hobby product with a niche audience. )


If Apple thought they 'needed' an iMac Pro to soak up enough next gen XDR panels to make producing that component a worthy investment .. maybe a low volume iMac Pro comes back to iterate about at Display update pace. But the legacy affordable iMac 27" that folks keep clamoring for ... that is probably dead. Folks are doing clickbait stuff by loosely attaching the old product to these "new iMac Pro" stuff that Gurman seems to be addicted to. Especially if Apple can sell enough Studio Displays and XDRs to be respectively profitable.


If the Mac Pro gets a 'bigger than Ulra' option then a 4-6 gap between it and the studio wouldn't be surprising any more than the Max -> Ultra gap is. Wait for the demand bubble for the common share subcomponent subside and than allocative more of the chip volume to the larger package that uses more of the subcomponent. The chip volume isn't going down ... just to which products the chips are allocated to. ( same way iPad Pro is going to consume M3's later. )

Even if it doesn't have a 'larger SoC' option it depends upon the avaialable flow of M3 Ulra Packages available. The closer to May-October window get limited TSMC fab capacity could get allocated to iPhone SoCs is sharing the same production line. If the Mac Studio can consume all of the desktop Mac/Ultra allocation then Apple would delay the Mac Pro ( as likely smaller volume option).

Churning the Mx Ultra Chip packages on a yearly basis pretty likely doesn't make any economic sense at all. There are really no "hand me down" targets with substantive volume for the Ultra sized package to go into. Bigger packages have even higher R&D overhead to recoup through return on investment. Very big package GPU dies are not killed off yearly. Even smaller Mac Studio Ultra + MP Ultra volumes make even less sense to kill off on a yearly basis.

Long term the Mac Pro is pretty likely going to get onto a M-odd or M-even pattern. For example M2-gen , M4-gen , M6-gen. Of the M2 was a quirk and it is M3-gen , M5-gen , M7-gen. That would put them on pace for 2-2.5 year iteration cycles. Given Apple's track record over the last couple of decades ( roughly 3 , 6 , and 4 years) would represent a substantive improvement. The exception for yearly is largely delusional. It is not who Apple 'is'. That is more iPhone sibling envy than anything grounded in reality. ( again good click bait ... boo hoo Macs aren't getting iPhone update rate ... )


" ... That roughly 15-month cadence means we could see another version with the M3 Ultra towards the end of 2024. ..."

Mac Studio 'end of 2024'. Probably not. Same reasons it wasn't 12 months that Apple replaced M2 Max with M3 Max in the laptops. Apple more likely going to use MP to soak up lingering M2 Max dies and probably move the Studio onto the M3-gen in June. Once the initial MBP Max demand bubble starts to subside Apple either has wafers (for another Max like sized consumption if there are 'desktop max' dies) or just plain Max dies laying around. Doesn't make sense to delay shipping those anymore than to build enough inventory to mostly cover another launch demand bubble. [ the M3 MBP 14/16" have not seen any of the large backlog shipping delays that the M1 generation saw. Very little indication that Apple is behind on Max die production at all. ]

Only thing pointing to end of 2024 would be if Apple ran out of access of N3B fab capacity allocation . Intel is reportedly on track to soak up N3B production in 2024. Apple is unlikely to have more capacity than they asked for in 2H 2024, but doubtful they will be getting 'under' what they asked for. All Apple has to do is stagger the induction of products that both use the Ultra to 'fit' whatever allocation they get. (e.g., can move Studio 'up' in year by moving 'Mac Pro' back. ) . Also pretty good chance there is some 'Next generation Apple GPU architecture' features that Apple is going to further re-enforce at WWDC 2024 that would be useful to demo on a "Ultra". If the Ultra is still just two Maxes 'glued' together, there is about zero upside in delaying that since the Max is over 6 months old at that point.


" ... For example, the Mac mini had to wait three years between its M1 and M2 versions, ..."

Nov 2020 M1 Mini
Jan 2023 M2 Mini

Not really 3 years. More like 26 months ( 2 years plus 2 months which is lots closer to ~2 than ~3 ). Just a little over two. Also several indications that Mini was suppose to be in November 2022 but slid ( a global pandemic causing delays .. .image that. ).

An again not particularly counting on when the plain M2 really shipped. July 2022. And also grossly ignoring that the Mini picked up the M2 Pro ... which shipped in Jan 2023 ... so not really delayed on that front at all. [ What was odd is why Apple waited so long to put a Mx Pro in the Mini chassis in the first place. ]. But the Mini is now coupled to the Mx Pro just as much as it is to the plain Mx. Both the plain and Pro M3 being out likely means that the Mini is pretty likely not going to suffer much more than a 6 month delay in getting out. Depends in part upon the scramble of other consumers of the two SoCs to settle down.

If the iPad Pro is going to soak up M3's in the spring and there is a MBA 13/15" M3 consumption in the Spring then the Mini could slide a bit over 6 months to June ( couple it to the Mac Studio). But > 2 years??? Likely not after the SoCs that it would be based on are already shipping.


Only a three Mac products got moved onto the M3 in 2023 ( iMac 24" , MBP 14" , MBP 16"). It is pretty likely that 2024 will see the rest ( i.e., the majority) of the line up moved to M3 gen variants . Which is activity. It may not be 'hype revolution' activity, but their are Mac updates. Apple's new GPU arch is substantively significant. These aren't 'nothing' updates.

The MBA has some quirks because the MBA 15" came out so late and Apple probably wants to sync that up with the MBA 13" for M3. So sometime 1H 2024 they'll likely do that. ( likely another pandemic hiccup that probably isn't worth projecting iteration rates into the future on. )



The Vision Pro isn't likely going to push Mac stuff off kilter in 2024 if the original, pre-pandemic plan was to roll VP out in 2023. The VP's M2 SoC doesn't really impeded the Mac at all ( which is transitioning to M3 generations this year). The R1 chip has had no material impact on getting revised M3 Pro which is more decoupled from M3 Max out the door in a timely fashion.

The R1 should impact the delusion of Apple running off and doing a Mac Pro only SoC. The M3 forked more off M3 Max and R1 and larger breadth of SoCs for other , far more higher volume products points to the threshold for "new die" being much higher than Mac Pro only run rates.
 
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Harry Haller

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I still hope for an evolution of the Mac Pro with support for GPUs on PCIe
I’ve just about given up on that considering Apple’s own recent comments on the subject.
Hoping for the M3 Ultra Studio to be near 32 core 7000 series Threadripper and Nvidia 4080 equivalent or at least close. If so and with Thunderbolt 5 and wi-fi 7 It will be an instabuy for me.
 
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ZombiePhysicist

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I’ve just about given up on that considering Apple’s own recent comments on the subject.
Hoping for the M3 Ultra Studio to be near 32 core 7000 series Threadripper and Nvidia 4080 equivalent or at least close. If so and with Thunderbolt 5 and wi-fi 7 It will be an instabuy for me.

I still need slots for better storage options, networking, etc. And likely for video options, I'm not sure the built in video would be enough. I'm hoping to drive 4-6 8k displays.
 
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