Mac Studio can power an external NVME drive via USB3,2... right?

[Sharky II]

Hi,

I have a 1TB NVMe drive (WD Black 980 Pro) in a Sabrent USB 3.2 enclosure: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08RVC6F9Y/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

Connected via USB-C to USB-c cable. It's the main audio drive for my Logic X projects.

I'm getting times in Logic where I get occasional spinning beach ball and 'disk too slow' message. It seems that every now and again the drive 'hangs' - I need to leave the project for a minute or two before I can carry on. I don't get this at all when the projects are on the internal drive. They are also nothing that a regular hard drive or SATA III SSD couldn't deal with, so it's nothing super taxing.

I've had a few 'disk ejected' moments too, but it's relatively rare.

I'm trying to troubleshoot the issue - whether it's the Mac, the cable, the drive, the enclosure etc.

I can see that the drive requires 896ma but the Mac can provide 900ma, which seems a very slim margin. Are people running NVMe drives via USB 3.2 from their Mac Studio without issue?

I've thought about heat/throttling too, but I don't think I'm really pushing the drive that hard.

I could spend £30 and try another enclosure, which I'll probably end up doing....

Any advice appreciated!

 

[handheldgames]

Go with Thunderbolt and problem solved.

 

[Sharky II]

So... it is a power problem? Or heat? Or a bad drive?

Is this a common issue? I assume it applies only to Mac Studios because otherwise there would be no way a manufacturer can sell these enclosures. I'm not doing anything that taxing, is it really about power draw?

The Thunderbolt enclosures are 4-5 times the price, but if I have to, I have to...

Edit: seems plenty of reviewers don't have that issue?

 

[Feek]

I've got a Samsung 990 nvme in an Acasis M.2 NVMe 40Gbps SSD Enclosure and it works perfectly, no issues whatsoever.

Do you have it plugged directly into the Studio or via a hub?

 

[Fishrrman]

The best solution:
Keep your active projects on the internal SSD.
Move all inactive or finished projects OFF the internal SSD.

 

[ColdCase]

I have a number of NVMe drives in TB enclosures, including the WD model. The only time I've had a problem is when using the caldigit hub and/or the ACASIS enclosure. I tried to max speed and use the newest tech, but found the quirks makes them not very useful. After I switch to Sonnettech hubs and enclosures I've not had one issue. Not as fast raw data speed, but certainly fast enough for active projects and they have been solid and reliable.... frustration free.

I think USB may be your issue, but could also be all of the above.... could also be another drive or enclosure unrelated to the NVMe. I've read a flaky Studio ethernet port can affect drive performance.

These kinds of pauses in disk performance can be a bear to isolate, but are most likely an enclosure issue, and may not be one with the NVMe in it.

 

[Sharky II]

Thanks for all the replies!

I've got a Samsung 990 nvme in an Acasis M.2 NVMe 40Gbps SSD Enclosure and it works perfectly, no issues whatsoever.

Do you have it plugged directly into the Studio or via a hub?

It's plugged in directly to the Mac Studio, but it's not a Thunderbolt enclosure, it's USB3,2. I was actually thinking a powered hub might actually help... but I think they're ugly! I'd rather just buy a Thunderbolt NVMe enclosure, if that's the answer.

The best solution:
Keep your active projects on the internal SSD.
Move all inactive or finished projects OFF the internal SSD.

I already kind of do that, but it's not really practical all the time - I have lots of projects and they're very big. Nor is it really an acceptable answer. Is anybody able to answer the main question - is this a fundamental flaw with the Mac Studio design? Is it a power issue? Is it a faulty USB enclosure? Cable? Is this a common issue?

Is anybody running an NVMe drive in a USB3,2 enclosure without issues?

It's 2023, I shouldn't have to be afraid of using external NVMe drives...

I have a number of NVMe drives in TB enclosures, including the WD model. The only time I've had a problem is when using the caldigit hub and/or the ACASIS enclosure. I tried to max speed and use the newest tech, but found the quirks makes them not very useful. After I switch to Sonnettech hubs and enclosures I've not had one issue. Not as fast raw data speed, but certainly fast enough for active projects and they have been solid and reliable.... frustration free.

I think USB may be your issue, but could also be all of the above.... could also be another drive or enclosure unrelated to the NVMe. I've read a flaky Studio ethernet port can affect drive performance.

These kinds of pauses in disk performance can be a bear to isolate, but are most likely an enclosure issue, and may not be one with the NVMe in it.

Yes, my hunch is that it's a Thunderbolt vs USB3 issue, but I don't really want to buy a £100-150 Thunderbolt enclosure if I don't really have to, and especially not because I'm unable to troubleshoot properly. I could either get this one fixed on warranty or simply buy another one for £30, rather than + £100. I get about 900mb/s read / 950mb/s write speeds, which is plenty for now, really. I could probably make do with a traditional SATA III SSD... my video and photos are on SATA II SSDs, but as my main income is from audio, I use the internal and the NVMe for audio.

Out of interest, what does the current available/require show on your Thunderbolt enclosures?

 

[ColdCase]

At the moment, all my enclosures are not powered by the Studio.

 

[ColdCase]

BTW, Many users complain that the USB ports will "drop" external drives.

 

[Evil Lair]

Try a different brand USB cable for the interim, but ultimately it would be better with a Thunderbolt case. That specific Sabrent case you have I also got and it always ejected after computer sleep, while the rugged waterproof USB 3.2 case they make had been trouble free except for very rare disconnects. The Acasis TBU401 has been flawless and faster.

 

[Sharky II]

So this is a power issue? Does Thunderbolt require less power? What is the power draw for your Thunderbolt drives/enclosures?

 

[Mac Hammer Fan]

I have a Samsung T7 external SSD (USB-C) which I can use as boot drive. No issues, but read / write speed is only 725 MB/sec. On the other hand an Acasis Thunderbolt TBU401 is faster (2750 MB/sec) but there are issues at this moment if I boot Sonoma from it. Boot time is 3 minutes in this case. This can be avoided though by pressing the power button until the startup disks appear. When I choose then Sonoma it boots faster. Occasionally I have a spinning beachball when opening some applications. Another problem is the heat of the Acasis. It runs really hot, unless you put the enclosure upon the computer. The internal SSD from my Mac Studio is a lot faster. I regret I didn't buy a 2 TB internal SSD instead of 1 TB. All my external SSDs are powered by my Mac Studio.

 

[ColdCase]

I've had similar experience with the Acasis. I had two of them now gathering dust. One had a high performance Seagate, the other with a WD. Couldn't connect via hub, and even unreliable directly connected. I switch to a Sonnet enclosure, a little slower but more reliable. I can't tell the difference editing and ecoding other than benchmarks.

 

[Sharky II]

I have a Samsung T7 external SSD (USB-C) which I can use as boot drive. No issues, but read / write speed is only 725 MB/sec. On the other hand an Acasis Thunderbolt TBU401 is faster (2750 MB/sec) but there are issues at this moment if I boot Sonoma from it. Boot time is 3 minutes in this case. This can be avoided though by pressing the power button until the startup disks appear. When I choose then Sonoma it boots faster. Occasionally I have a spinning beachball when opening some applications. Another problem is the heat of the Acasis. It runs really hot, unless you put the enclosure upon the computer. The internal SSD from my Mac Studio is a lot faster. I regret I didn't buy a 2 TB internal SSD instead of 1 TB. All my external SSDs are powered by my Mac Studio.

Ah, that's not great. Wonder if it is related to Sonoma issues?

Today I had a project that I simply couldn't progress with without constant 'disk too slow' spinning beach balls.

Had to copy project to internal drive to continue...

If I knew I could spend £100 on a thunderbolt nvme enclosure and the problem would go away, I would, but I'm not that confident...

 

[simplycorbett]

Your usb issue is likely chipset related. Some of the usb nvme controllers don’t play well with the m2 hardware. If it’s a power issue the drive would disconnect or the Mac would kernel panic.

There is a major issue with power delivery on -all- usb and thunderbolt ports.

Even the thunderbolt ports have a shared power limit. Apples support tells me each port can power up to 100 watts but when you plug in a third nvme enclosure (thunderbolt) it does not power on.

Instead I get the awesome experience of shelling out money for a powered thunderbolt hub.

YMMV.

 

[crowe-t]

I've had similar experience with the Acasis. I had two of them now gathering dust. One had a high performance Seagate, the other with a WD. Couldn't connect via hub, and even unreliable directly connected. I switch to a Sonnet enclosure, a little slower but more reliable. I can't tell the difference editing and ecoding other than benchmarks.

Which Sonnet enclosure do you have?

 

[Sharky II]

If anybody has any suggestions of a USB NVMe enclosure that works reliably, please let us know.

I bought a this USB4 enclosure: https://amzn.eu/d/eGS37D9

While the performance is excellent (3000mb+ read / write) the fan in it is always going, or ramping up and down. I use this for video so I don’t care that much however my main job is audio. But it gets so hot and the fans are noisy even when idling.

I’m completely fine with an NVMe with USB 3.2 speeds for audio, still faster than SATA 3 SSD drives, I just need the reliability!

They’re also 4-5x cheaper than the USB4/Thunderbolt enclosures.

 

[Fishrrman]

"While the performance is excellent (3000mb+ read / write) the fan in it is always going"

High performance = lots and lots of electrons moving back-and-forth = HEAT.

If all you need is USB3.1 gen2 speeds for audio, you might consider something like the Crucial X9 SSD.

I have one, which I use as my "alternate boot drive" running a test copy of the upcoming Sequoia OS. Even after an OS update -- which must be "disk intensive" (it runs up the internal fan in my 2018 Mini), the X9 drive remains only "barely warm to the touch". NOT "hot". There's no fan inside, either.

I will hazard a GUESS that this can also handle audio in/out smoothly, as well.

 

[Adora]

If anybody has any suggestions of a USB NVMe enclosure that works reliably, please let us know.

I bought a this USB4 enclosure: https://amzn.eu/d/eGS37D9

While the performance is excellent (3000mb+ read / write) the fan in it is always going, or ramping up and down. I use this for video so I don’t care that much however my main job is audio. But it gets so hot and the fans are noisy even when idling.

I’m completely fine with an NVMe with USB 3.2 speeds for audio, still faster than SATA 3 SSD drives, I just need the reliability!

They’re also 4-5x cheaper than the USB4/Thunderbolt enclosures.

Out of 5 I tried a few months ago only this very cheap one seems to work without any problem and the other ones all were more expensive. It's USB 3.1 Gen 2, what has the same speed as USB 3.2 Gen 2.

SHUBEIEUMI M.2 NVMe und SATA SSD Gehäuse Adapter, 10Gbps M.2 SSD zu USB 3.1 mit 2-in-1 Kabel, Unterstützt M-Key/B+M Key für 2230/2242/2260/2280 SSD, Werkzeuglos (Schwarz)

SHUBEIEUMI M.2 NVMe und SATA SSD Gehäuse Adapter, 10Gbps M.2 SSD zu USB 3.1 mit 2-in-1 Kabel, Unterstützt M-Key/B+M Key für 2230/2242/2260/2280 SSD, Werkzeuglos (Schwarz)

amzn.eu

I also never had any problem with an enclosure for two NVMe SSDs with RAID options, that I bought 7 years ago. It already had 10 GBit/s too. I think it was Delock or Caldigit. Can't find it at the moment.

 

[Sharky II]

"While the performance is excellent (3000mb+ read / write) the fan in it is always going"

High performance = lots and lots of electrons moving back-and-forth = HEAT.

If all you need is USB3.1 gen2 speeds for audio, you might consider something like the Crucial X9 SSD.

I have one, which I use as my "alternate boot drive" running a test copy of the upcoming Sequoia OS. Even after an OS update -- which must be "disk intensive" (it runs up the internal fan in my 2018 Mini), the X9 drive remains only "barely warm to the touch". NOT "hot". There's no fan inside, either.

I will hazard a GUESS that this can also handle audio in/out smoothly, as well.

Yes, I'm aware that high performance creates heat. I didn't expect it to create that much heat when the drive isn't even in use, though.

I already have an NVMe drive that I'm looking for an enclosure, so while I'm happy to get an X9 or similar in the future, I'm looking for a cost-effective solution to put the NVMe drive in without spending another £110

In the future I'll definitely go with Crucial or Samsung 'ready made' solutions as they're almost the same price as the entire USB4 enclosure.

 

[Sharky II]

Out of 5 I tried a few months ago only this very cheap one seems to work without any problem and the other ones all were more expensive. It's USB 3.1 Gen 2, what has the same speed as USB 3.2 Gen 2.

SHUBEIEUMI M.2 NVMe und SATA SSD Gehäuse Adapter, 10Gbps M.2 SSD zu USB 3.1 mit 2-in-1 Kabel, Unterstützt M-Key/B+M Key für 2230/2242/2260/2280 SSD, Werkzeuglos (Schwarz)

SHUBEIEUMI M.2 NVMe und SATA SSD Gehäuse Adapter, 10Gbps M.2 SSD zu USB 3.1 mit 2-in-1 Kabel, Unterstützt M-Key/B+M Key für 2230/2242/2260/2280 SSD, Werkzeuglos (Schwarz)

amzn.eu

I also never had any problem with an enclosure for two NVMe SSDs with RAID options, that I bought 7 years ago. It already had 10 GBit/s too. I think it was Delock or Caldigit. Can't find it at the moment.

Amazing, I'll give this a try as it's so cheap!

 

[Fomalhaut]

The best solution:
Keep your active projects on the internal SSD.
Move all inactive or finished projects OFF the internal SSD.

Generally this is a good solution for small projects, but not if:
(a) You work with large media files such as various Raw video formats (where you can easily have >1TB per project)
(b) You need to keep multiple projects active at the same time (lots of audio/video editing studios have multiple concurrent clients)
(c) You need to easily swap media between machines (e.g. from a deskop to laptop, or between multiple editors)

In these cases, having either a fast NAS (if working in the same network) or a set of fast external drives is a better solution.

The only time I like to work with internal storage is when traveling with a laptop because having SSDs dangling off the airplane tray table is a pain

 

[apostolosdt]

I think the previous posts have covered the OP more or less. I even run Sonoma from an external Samsung T7 with no issues. I also found out that the right enclosure is paramount for using ext NVMe's. For instance, I run all my VM on Parallels thru a Samsung NVMe inside an Icy Box enclosure. It works just fine for that, but it refuses to run Sonoma---only the T7 does. That setup works on both Studio Max and base Mini M1.

And to emphasize what's already been said, it's not a heat problem, but a right port problem

 

[Sharky II]

Amazing, I'll give this a try as it's so cheap!

Out of 5 I tried a few months ago only this very cheap one seems to work without any problem and the other ones all were more expensive. It's USB 3.1 Gen 2, what has the same speed as USB 3.2 Gen 2.

SHUBEIEUMI M.2 NVMe und SATA SSD Gehäuse Adapter, 10Gbps M.2 SSD zu USB 3.1 mit 2-in-1 Kabel, Unterstützt M-Key/B+M Key für 2230/2242/2260/2280 SSD, Werkzeuglos (Schwarz)

SHUBEIEUMI M.2 NVMe und SATA SSD Gehäuse Adapter, 10Gbps M.2 SSD zu USB 3.1 mit 2-in-1 Kabel, Unterstützt M-Key/B+M Key für 2230/2242/2260/2280 SSD, Werkzeuglos (Schwarz)

amzn.eu

I also never had any problem with an enclosure for two NVMe SSDs with RAID options, that I bought 7 years ago. It already had 10 GBit/s too. I think it was Delock or Caldigit. Can't find it at the moment.

I found this on Amazon UK - it arrives today and appears to have the correct/compatible chipset so I’m feeling hopeful.

 

[Adora]

I found this on Amazon UK - it arrives today and appears to have the correct/compatible chipset so I’m feeling hopeful.

Good luck with that. I hope it works for you too.