MacAir RevC or New MacPro 13"

[Santabean2000]

Unbelievable. Apple was SO close to making an almost perfect 13 inch Macbook. They literally fixed every single complaint I have with my current unibody 13 Macbook. But then to castrate the performance of the SATA controller like that? Again they are pushing people to the more expensive MBP 15 and the Air, but this time it's a bit too blatant. That's just being cheap.

Agreed. Why Apple why??!!

Another lost sale here. I will now wait for the Arrandale 13" and hope that they don't deliberately cripple it too. Ggggrrrrr.

 

[Veinticinco]

Hello Veinticinco! Think you and I exchanged some thoughts a while ago re: the upcoming Rev C Air! How you doing? Well(as regards Macs!)I think I know actually as I've been following all the Air threads and reading your comments.
Although I am very happy for those who have gone for the new Air and are happy with it, I have to say that I am 100% in agreement with you as regards it's 'update'.
Anyway, it's all been said. I now find myself in the same boat as you. The Air is not an option for me. The 13" looked like a fabulous alternative as long as the weight increase wasn't too dramatic and the black-bezelled, reflective screen could be tolerated. Well, the weight, although quite a shock after the Air, is just a fact. It has to be accepted. The screen? I had a day of quite simply being horrified by the reflections on black area's, but then gradually started to get used to it and yeah, began to appreciate it's incredible quality.

And now this. I quite simply cannot begin to fathom why Apple can even begin to contemplate such a move. Staggeringly unacceptable. This will grow & grow and a whole lot of people are gonna cause mayhem over it. I had planned on installing a high-end SSD around Autumn(Fall!)time!
Bottom line: it goes back tomorrow for a full refund. My only other option, the 17", I cannot stretch to, so count that as one lost sale for them.

Not that they give a damn. You and I both know that all too well.
So, what to do. Stuck really.
In the meantime, be well, and maybe chat again soon!

Hi Carl,

Yep I'm very much in the same boat/mindset as you right now. Infuriating isn't it?

"New" rev.C MBA is out and there's no way I'm buying it despite how much I love the FF. 2GB is just a bad joke, no reason other than beancounting not to have 4GB on board, then there's the lack of a 256GB SSD option (admittedly it may not be ready but still...) but the fact they've stuck the worst ever display model in the new ones just defies belief. I'd laugh if it wasn't so incompetent.

New 13" MBP - well my initial thoughts were, you have to take your hat off to them, Apple, for producing such an extensive and massive update to the old MB. Pretty much every component upgraded, with a fantastic new display, 256GB SSD option, SEVEN-hour battery (oh so tempting....!), supporting upto EIGHT GIGS (!!!) of RAM, FW port restored (hurray, TDM is back!) and the odd nice gimmick (the SD slot, even if it is a cheapo non-push-release non-flush type).

I've had use of the uMB last October-December, and I absolutely hated its crappy display, made worse by the aesthetics - the black glass slab covering and bezel I just found awful to look at, and nothing's changed on that score.

As for the weight, the MB does weigh 50% more than the MBA, and although in absolute terms we're not talking a lot, it is very noticeable. The MBA is just so much more practical in many different ways, from carrying to storage to use, something that you can't quite quantify by saying 'only 1.5lbs and the same 13" size'. Like having to turn right on a plane again, once you experience the MBA it is almost impossible (ok, painful) to go back to the heft of the 13MBP.

BIG BUT....since I will never purchase anything other than an SSD again, the throttling back to the slower SATA-I 1.5GB speed on the new MBP is just unacceptable. Worse there's just no excuse whatsoever if confirmed true, just a purely cynical 'stealth' exercise to 'protect' sales of the 15" model, now that there's even LESS between them.

It's clear neither machine will satisfy me, and I hate the thought of spending four figures of my money on a piece of hardware that I know to be deeply flawed in one sense or another. If only they could shrink down the matt-screened, silver-bezelled beauty that is the 17" MBP.....

So 2009 for me will be my 'time out' as far as Apple hardware goes. I'm even happily keeping my iPhone 3G with the new 3.0 software update until next summer as opposed to 'upgrading' to the 'new' 3GS ('s' for stopgap clearly).

I just hope 2010 brings with it some serious improvements from Cupertino, both in terms of decision-making, quality control, and offerings. An MBA-style 13" MBP will be my tipping point, and if they release it, I'll probably pick up an iTablet out of curiosity alone. But for now, they are not getting a single penny of my cash, which I'm adamant i'll stick to. Only caveat is if a potential new employer (possibly next month) chooses to buy me a new machine, then of course the 2.13 MBA SSD it will be.

 

[Carl Abudephane]

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[entatlrg]

Rediculous !!!!!!!!!!!

Hey! Just a quick note as I'm whizzing out, primarily to return this 13" MacBook Pro.
I've just posted this over in the thread devoted to this issue: I 'phoned Apple this morning and they quite simply said, yep, 'I can confirm that this Mac has a SATA I connection.' He said sorry that this Mac didn't fulfill my needs and wished me a good day.

So that's that. Refund. Very interestingly, over in that rapidly-escalating thread, it now also looks as though all the 15" models also have this gimped SATA speed, even though there's no technological reason for it. The speculation as to why seems to be one of the following two reasons(although this is still obviously guesswork):

1. The likely reason, that this is helping them, very largely, get the improved battery times. It's thought not probable that it is solely down to the 'new' battery, and apparently the SATA I connection draws noticably less juice. Best go to that thread to read more on it.

2. Less likely, but still, one never knows; is it somehow connected to the SD slot. The new 13" and 15" both have an SD slot and both(so it looks)have the 1.5Gb throughput speed. The 17" has SATA II. It's already known that the components in these models support SATA II so is this a firmware issue in order to 'accomodate' the SD slot? Or the new battery times? Or Both?!

Right now, battery seems more possible, but as was somebody on that thread said, one has to ask oneself - Am I happy to keep this Mac, as it is, knowing this, and just hoping that maybe Apple will fix it at some point?
My answer to that is No.
I cannot believe they've done this to what was potentially looking like a killer laptop. A year from now, SSD's will be everywhere and a lot of folks buying these new Macs now(although not perhaps thinking about dropping an SSD in there now)will then possibly be looking at replacing their HD with one.
After all the Air disppointments, this just fills me with dismay.

edit: Apparently the SATA connection has nothing to do with the SD slot, so scratch that one.

Some of your guys are too much !!

As was posted in another thread by another member >>>

"I knew the Apple Elite tend to be impervious to reason, but refusing to order a system or taking it back because of something you can't actually achieve in the real world? Dramatic much?"

Couldn't of said it better myself .... people RELAX... order your MBP's and MBA's and ENJOY them !!!

I can't believe the drama in the Apple world .... and about what? ... things 95% of the people can't notice with the human eye, it's crazy, obsessive and a waste of time... to many people here analyzing the movements of a multi-billion dollar company and you type as if you actually "know" .... comical if nothing else I guess

 

[norsemen]

Can anyone confirm that the SATA connection on the new Airs is 3.0 gb?

 

[u49aa2]

Another question guys;

Can somebody just gives some examples of how the SATA speed may enhance the SSD. I mean examples of everyday work, please? I just don't understand all the fuss. I have searched but couldn't find anything. Thanks

 

[iaymnu]

Can anyone confirm that the SATA connection on the new Airs is 3.0 gb?

There is a thread on the Macbook pro section with screen shots.

 

[Carl Abudephane]

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[Veinticinco]

Hey! Just a quick note as I'm whizzing out, primarily to return this 13" MacBook Pro.
I've just posted this over in the thread devoted to this issue: I 'phoned Apple this morning and they quite simply said, yep, 'I can confirm that this Mac has a SATA I connection.' He said sorry that this Mac didn't fulfill my needs and wished me a good day.

So that's that. Refund. Very interestingly, over in that rapidly-escalating thread, it now also looks as though all the 15" models also have this gimped SATA speed, even though there's no technological reason for it.

Carl, also just on my way out for the evening - will have a look at that SATA thread tomorrow (is it obviously titled or would a link be helpful?).

Thing is I bumped into a friend of mine this afternoon - he's the most tech-savvy person at my other local AAR&SC. I mentioned about this SATA-throttling and he was adamant even on the 13" - no way in hell was his response, 100% tested personally and giving 3GB throughput. So I don't know what to believe now

He's a former MBA user himself and agreed on what we are both waiting for - the current MBP guts in an MBA case. Only 6-8 months to wait then, sigh.....

 

[eVolcre]

Carl,

He said it wrong and was bound to rustle some feathers, but you have to admit he does have a valid point.

People on the forums analyze and over analyze defects, upgrades, new features.

Two things

1. 80% of the buyers won't know or care about the difference. Heck, they probably couldn't care about the upgrades at WWDC (FW etc). The PRICE drop is what dragged them into the stores.

2. The 13" MB"P" is still the baby 'consumer' version in the lineup. How many people in that target market would install an SSD by themselves to even care about 1/5 vs 3? Someone with that level of knowledge is probably going to spend more money and get a more powerful machine - the 15 or the 17

3. For the small minority of users in that budgetary range who DO upgrade to the SSD, I highly doubt they will be able to tell the slight difference.

Like it or not, Apple is a BUSINESS. They will sell boatloads of the rebranded MBP because of the price drop and attractive feature set and it probably isn't worth worrying about the 1% techies that care about this issue.


I remember reading in one of your posts that you don't even own a MAC yet. You've been posting here for 2 years. This paralysis by over analysis isn't worth it unless you like debating and looking for 'perfection'. There is nothing wrong with that either but why get upset and rant?

Don't take this the wrong way. I enjoy your posts but you have to admit, based on the above points, this issue is a non issue.

Cheers - eV

 

[u49aa2]

Carl,

He said it wrong and was bound to rustle some feathers, but you have to admit he does have a valid point.

People on the forums analyze and over analyze defects, upgrades, new features.

Two things

1. 80% of the buyers won't know or care about the difference. Heck, they probably couldn't care about the upgrades at WWDC (FW etc). The PRICE drop is what dragged them into the stores.

2. The 13" MB"P" is still the baby 'consumer' version in the lineup. How many people in that target market would install an SSD by themselves to even care about 1/5 vs 3? Someone with that level of knowledge is probably going to spend more money and get a more powerful machine - the 15 or the 17

3. For the small minority of users in that budgetary range who DO upgrade to the SSD, I highly doubt they will be able to tell the slight difference.

Like it or not, Apple is a BUSINESS. They will sell boatloads of the rebranded MBP because of the price drop and attractive feature set and it probably isn't worth worrying about the 1% techies that care about this issue.


I remember reading in one of your posts that you don't even own a MAC yet. You've been posting here for 2 years. This paralysis by over analysis isn't worth it unless you like debating and looking for 'perfection'. There is nothing wrong with that either but why get upset and rant?

Don't take this the wrong way. I enjoy your posts but you have to admit, based on the above points, this issue is a non issue.

Cheers - eV

eV, you don't mind explaining, the effect of this 1.5 vs. 3 on the speed. is it only on data transferred? or does it effect other things also (like start up, opening applications)?

 

[Carl Abudephane]

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[eVolcre]

Carl,

Absolutely no offense taken and my apologies, I didn't mean to come off snarky on your mac ownership.

I'm at the Apple store playing with all the new machines, so I'll post a longer reply later. I'm glad you and I are mature respectful posters, we can agree to disagree

eV

 

[entatlrg]

And while we're on it buddy, learn to spell. Then I might give a damn about what you've got to say.

Oh Carl you ARE a perfectionist or an illusionist? ... I rushed and checked all my spelling right away! Spell check and everything! But no mistakes Maybe with the lines on your screens you can't see the text

Enough already, your rant posts and jumping on people who voice their opinion is ridiculous as I stated but not for 80% of the people as was suggested here, rather I'd guess 98% of the people.

Consumer or Business users Carl ... they buy their Mac's or PC's, they do their work, enjoy some entertainment etc and for what they and we do the Mac's they do a FINE JOB, I am AMAZED at what my MBA can handle, nothing short of impressive.

You can be picky and choosy all you want, but you're bringing people here down, planting thoughts in their heads and it's just a bunch of whinny negative crap.

I don't write posts like this often, but jump on me you'll get it back.

By the way your rant and whinning about my spelling ??? You'd be best advised to go 'spell check' your previous posts before you suggest someone else can't spell... like I said - ridiculous.

Now, hopefully back to some positive comments and praise for our beloved Mac's

 

[Carl Abudephane]

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[sofaking30]

I think Apple will reveal a longer lasting (in terms of battery) macbook air for the next release, or (as someone mentioned) merge the 13" MBP with the macbook air. Right now, the 13" MBP is very competitive against the air.

 

[Scottsdale]

Funny that people have to chose the MBA for a faster drive controller. The consumers really won with this update. Low low prices, and Apple cut costs everywhere. The Pros and tech enthusiasts who care about all of the under the hood specs lost BIG!

 

[entatlrg]

Can you enlighten us and explain how pro's and tech fans lost out "BIG" ?? You're referring to possible changes not detectable by the human eye and changes that won't negatively affect what about 98% of all users?

Enough already ... all these cool updates to MacBooks and all this WHINING about things completely unnoticeable to 98 out of 100 buyers ...

I think people should be praising Apple with these last updates, all the tech experts are rolling out positive reviews, people can't buy them fast enough but this forum is recently littered with whinny posts about things people won't notice, it makes no sense.

 

[Scottsdale]

Can you enlighten us and explain how pro's and tech fans lost out "BIG" ?? You're referring to possible changes not detectable by the human eye and changes that won't negatively affect what about 98% of all users?

Enough already ... all these cool updates to MacBooks and all this WHINING about things completely unnoticeable to 98 out of 100 buyers ...

I think people should be praising Apple with these last updates, all the tech experts are rolling out positive reviews, people can't buy them fast enough but this forum is recently littered with whinny posts about things people won't notice, it makes no sense.

UM, really. I am saying that the 90+ percent of buyers called CONSUMERS won big with the price cuts and changes.

Price cuts = OBVIOUS??? Isn't it?

Changes = LOSS OF EXPRESS CARD - BIG LOSS for PROS who use it! It's basically one port that allows many types of expansion cards from video, to audio, and etc etc. Pros lose big with that one.

Changes = 1.5 Gb SATA drive controller - another loser for those who want to expand to SSD themselves and are stuck without the 3 Gb/s SATA-II tech used by nearly every computer manufactured today except the MBPs. CONSUMERS who usually only have HDDs will not see the difference as it takes a high end SSD to take advantage of greater than 1.5 Gb/s transfer speed... again PROS have the SSDs and tech enthusiasts have the SSDs.

Changes = SD Card slot - PROS do NOT use this digital format with their DSLRs and such. AGAIN, advantage CONSUMERs... and the Pros lost the ability to use the Express Card for an expansion card reader for their cameras.

Changes = 9400m/integrated vs. dedicated - consumers usually don't need the performance of dedicated graphics cards, but tech enthusiasts like gamers too need them and so do Pros for high end graphics work... now, the problem here is the 13" MBP isn't really a PRO in that sense as it doesn't have the dedicated graphics like even a 12" PowerBook had. Pros have been begging for a 12" MBP, but this MBP will not work for the REAL PRO. It is more geared to the consumers! As far as the 15," it doesn't really matter on the lowest priced model, as the two high end are available nearly for the same price as was before with dedicated cards.

Changes = GLASSY/GLOSSY DISPLAYS - Pros are begging and crying for 15" MBPs with anti-glare displays, and Apple refuses to oblige because they are into shiny and glossy because it looks better for CONSUMERS... CONSUMERS BUY SHINY GLOSSY THINGS! Pros prefer no glare.

The new MBP is a marketing plan more than ever. Graphics professionals who used to be the primary buyer/targeted buyer of the MacBook Pro have really been left out here with all of the changes in a sense. Instead of getting Pro Mac notebooks that catered more to real pros, Apple made a choice to go "CONSUMER" with nearly all of the Mac notebook line.

Hey, I am a CONSUMER. I won big time. I ain't complaining! I love all of the changes, except I am somewhat of a tech enthusiast... and I think the SATA drive controller is BS, because SSDs are the best/fastest/easiest way to speed up any notebook! It's sad if Apple really axed the tech for all those not willing to buy an SSD from Apple. Drives were always a way both Pros and consumers could easily upgrade their Mac.

So, you obviously misunderstood my point. I am not complaining, or WHINING AS YOU PUT IT, but I firmly understand why a lot of pros would be pissed!

Heck, I bought an MBA for a $700 discount... why would I complain other than the lines on the display? I am not really even complaining, but I am trying to find out how to get rid of the lines or get one without lines.

Why don't you go back to my prior post and figure out why you decided to criticize me when I ain't (I love typing that) complaining!

LIGHTEN UP... you... you... you... CONSUMER!