Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Nausicaa

macrumors 6502a
Jan 11, 2007
607
283
I think the 13" is the way to go, but I'm still not sure. I just feel that the 11 inch will be too slow. Between the slower processors, and the slower system bus and 50% L2 cache it will be noticeable for the more advanced tasks which inevitably come up. Then there is the issue of pricing. Upgrade the 11" to 4GB, with the fastest processor and 128GB (necessary, I think), you're up to $1,399. This is the same price as the 13" with the same specs and faster processor. I think the extra speed, larger screen, and SD slot make up for the slightly greater footprint and weight.

Still, the 11" is very slim and attractive. And probably fast enough for most things.

I will need to see them in person to really decide.
 

ReallyBigFeet

macrumors 68030
Apr 15, 2010
2,956
133
When I bought my new 15" MBP this past spring, I really wanted to get the 13" MBP at the time. But then Apple didn't give it any real power, more or less creating the 13" as the Macbook Pro "Junior" model. I just couldn't bring myself to pay that much for such a low-end computer that offered so little relative to its peers. So I went for the 15" MBP and then a couple months thereafter added an iPad to the mix.

I've tried to take extensive business trips with just my iPad, but once I added a keyboard and all the other accessories, I pretty much found myself still making compromises versus just lugging the MBP along with me. The iPad serves a unique purpose for me in my business, but its not a computer and it can't do many of the common tasks I need to perform while on the road.

The 13.3" MBA is EXACTLY what I REALLY wanted last spring. I love my MBP but really, I could do with less horsepower when I travel. But I need more than what the iPad can deliver as well. So I think my 15" MBP will likely become my primary desk computer now and the MBA will become my primary travel computer. I can carry my MBA and my iPad both and still not equal the weight of my MBP.

The 11" MBA? Its a netbook. I don't care what Jobs and others proclaim. I have a netbook already running Win 7 in an almost identical screen size. The lack of vertical space is annoying as crap and I find myself scrolling back and forth constantly to work on things. I didn't want to repeat that mistake twice.

MBA 13.3" Crazy small, but big enough to be a real computer.
 

sparkie7

macrumors 68020
Oct 17, 2008
2,430
202
The more I analyze this, the more my head tells me the 13" maxed out is the way to go. But my heart wants the 11" form factor. The reduced vertical height bothers me, I just don't think it will cut it when using it, even for browsing as you constantly have to scroll up and down. For real on the road work it might prove to be a royal PIA. The 128SSD on the 11" is bare minimum as it really is only circa 100GB storage out of the box. At least though you can BTO it with 4GB RAM. To my mind the 11" would be a luxury purchase for me, kind of like a sunday car, for the pleasure of using it. Where as the top-end 13" will prove to be the best balance for overall performance, weight, getting work done remotely and screen size for a portable on the go machine.

As soon as they have them in-store I'll be able to confirm my gut feelings are right or wrong
 

bouncer1

macrumors 6502
Oct 6, 2010
258
0
The more I analyze this, the more my head tells me the 13" maxed out is the way to go. But my heart wants the 11" form factor.

You couldn't have expressed my feelings on this better that you did. Thanks, that's exactly how I feel, yet I couldn't find the words to put it.
 

georgemann

macrumors regular
I think anyone who is thinking of using the MacBook Air as their main computer is going to be disappointed in either models after using it for a few weeks.

I am a photographer and I use a 17-inch MBP as my main computer but I also use an 11.6-inch Samsung netbook for image storage & review while I am on location. I will have to play with both of the new MB Air offerings, before I can make up my mind, but I have a feeling that the 11.6 (with a 128MB upgrade) will probably be the best choice for me.

My biggest concern though is the lack of needed ports, like a direct ethernet connection and firewire. I really wish that Apple would stop trying to be an award winning fashion house and concentrate on a good computer user interface instead.

Reading my post I am pretty sure that I will probably end up making the MBP 13-inch my next Mac purchase. Just waiting for the next processor upgrade.
 

sparkie7

macrumors 68020
Oct 17, 2008
2,430
202
I think anyone who is thinking of using the MacBook Air as their main computer is going to be disappointed in either models after using it for a few weeks.

Many people will find the MBA perfectly adequate for their needs. Maybe not yours but you're a bit myopic in your through away statement

I am a photographer and I use a 17-inch MBP as my main computer but I also use an 11.6-inch Samsung netbook for image storage & review while I am on location. I will have to play with both of the new MB Air offerings, before I can make up my mind, but I have a feeling that the 11.6 (with a 128MB upgrade) will probably be the best choice for me.

So am I, + I have a 17 MBP SSD, but on travels it can be a bit big and heavy. Unless you are shooting with CF cards, the built in SD card reader on the 13" is very useful. The 11" doesn't have it

My biggest concern though is the lack of needed ports, like a direct ethernet connection and firewire. I really wish that Apple would stop trying to be an award winning fashion house and concentrate on a good computer user interface instead.[/QUOTE

Get the USB > Ethernet converter. Not sure one exists for FW. The MBP's are what you need if you want all in one

Reading my post I am pretty sure that I will probably end up making the MBP 13-inch my next Mac purchase. Just waiting for the next processor upgrade.

But the 13 MBP doesnt have BTO AG screens. Personally I'd rather be working and seeing my photos rather than my reflection
 

ReallyBigFeet

macrumors 68030
Apr 15, 2010
2,956
133
You couldn't be more wrong and clearly have NO idea what a netbook is. Call it a taco if you want, that doesn't make it one.

First, I think I was pretty clear in stating that I don't care what you, Jobs or anyone else wants to call them...the 11" MBA is a netbook.

Second, I'm using the commonly applied definition of a Netbook, used widely by PCMagazine, Cnet, Wikipedia and others:

"Netbooks.....featured smaller screens and keyboards, and offered reduced specification and computing power. Over the course of their evolution, netbooks have ranged in size from below 5" screen diagonal[2] to 12".[3] A typical weight is 1 kg (2-3 pounds)."

MBA 11" base config = the above.

It's a netbook. A nice one, maybe the best netbook out there, and clearly the best OSX netbook you can buy. But its still a netbook.

The 13.3" MBA is just a slightly larger netbook if that makes you feel better. But with the larger screen real estate and bigger drive capacity, it eliminates many of the compromises common to netbooks like the 11" MBA.
 

JSmoove05

macrumors 6502
Jun 4, 2007
373
0
i have been debating for the past 2 days which to get but after seeing some pics the 11.6 looks too much like my ipad and the height of the screen im not feeling at all. I may go with the 13.3 myself.
 

ProstheticHead

macrumors 6502
Jun 15, 2007
268
0
Seattle, WA
Honestly?

The MacBook Air would be used as a secondary device for me. It would replace my 12" PB G4. For that reason, I wouldn't be using anything too demanding on it and thus would be looking towards the entry level.

Anything above the 11.6" 64gb model would not be considered by me. For the same price as the next step up I could get an entry level 13" MBP. Much better value.

That being said, I'm curious as to see how the entry level MBA works. As soon as I have one in stock for demo purposes, I'll load SC2 on it and have some fun.
 

grovertdog

macrumors regular
Sep 14, 2006
151
0
It's a netbook. A nice one, maybe the best netbook out there, and clearly the best OSX netbook you can buy. But its still a netbook.

Sure!

It's a "netbook"! Yes, that's it!!

One that runs OS/X, and WinOS via VMware/Parallels, and will likely run iLife/MSOffice/iWork/et al apps without so much as a hiccup, likely faster, from a user's perspective, than the 13.3 MBP (without SSD).

The first guy was absolutely correct- you can call it whatever you want, without even understanding what it is... That's your prerogative. No punishment for being wrong in here.

Netbook... Yeah... Whatever...
 

jb1280

macrumors 6502a
Jan 13, 2009
869
255
The more I analyze this, the more my head tells me the 13" maxed out is the way to go. But my heart wants the 11" form factor. The reduced vertical height bothers me, I just don't think it will cut it when using it, even for browsing as you constantly have to scroll up and down. For real on the road work it might prove to be a royal PIA. The 128SSD on the 11" is bare minimum as it really is only circa 100GB storage out of the box. At least though you can BTO it with 4GB RAM. To my mind the 11" would be a luxury purchase for me, kind of like a sunday car, for the pleasure of using it. Where as the top-end 13" will prove to be the best balance for overall performance, weight, getting work done remotely and screen size for a portable on the go machine.

As soon as they have them in-store I'll be able to confirm my gut feelings are right or wrong

I totally agree with the head versus heart analogy. I am going to wait until there are more reviews out that give us a better picture of what battery life is going to be like and then eventually check them out in person.
 

YOKOJP

macrumors member
Oct 25, 2008
81
0
I was set on getting the 13.3 MBA but went to Apple store in Tokyo and I have to say 11.6 is amazing. Now I'm towards getting 11.1. My main concern with the 11.1 is running VM Fusion, Boot Camp and Remote Desktop for Work. Any ideas?

Thanks.
 

AAPLaday

Guest
Aug 6, 2008
2,411
2
Manchester UK
I was set on getting the 13.3 MBA but went to Apple store in Tokyo and I have to say 11.6 is amazing. Now I'm towards getting 11.1. My main concern with the 11.1 is running VM Fusion, Boot Camp and Remote Desktop for Work. Any ideas?

Thanks.

Not sure about the processor but id definitely look at getting the 4GB ram version.
 

YOKOJP

macrumors member
Oct 25, 2008
81
0
Not sure about the processor but id definitely look at getting the 4GB ram version.

Thanks. I definitely going to max out the 11.6, but even if I maxed out would it run youtube HD video, VM Fusion, Boot Camp and Remote Desktop SMOOTHLY.

Anyone who has the 11.6 please comment.

Thanks in advance.
 

stylinexpat

macrumors 68020
Mar 6, 2009
2,108
4,549
I'm looking at getting a loaded 13" model. Should be really nice. 4GB 2.13 Ghz. and 256 SSD :D
 

Scottsdale

Suspended
Sep 19, 2008
4,473
283
U.S.A.
Jobs was right the first time when he said that anything less than 13" really wasn't ideal. I agree.

Those little screens are a hassle for a number of reasons.

FWIW, the 11" keyboard doesn't extend to the edge, so that will also be a little tight.

13"

He did sorta backtrack on his position. However, he did get the full-sized keyboard in there which is more important than the display size in my opinion.


I think the 13" is the way to go, but I'm still not sure. I just feel that the 11 inch will be too slow. Between the slower processors, and the slower system bus and 50% L2 cache it will be noticeable for the more advanced tasks which inevitably come up. Then there is the issue of pricing. Upgrade the 11" to 4GB, with the fastest processor and 128GB (necessary, I think), you're up to $1,399. This is the same price as the 13" with the same specs and faster processor. I think the extra speed, larger screen, and SD slot make up for the slightly greater footprint and weight.

Still, the 11" is very slim and attractive. And probably fast enough for most things.

I will need to see them in person to really decide.

I don't believe "slow" will be the way most describe the 11.6" MBA. At least not the people that actually buy and use it.

People have been distorted by Intel's marketing. A 1.4 GHz CPU sounds slow if you think about the alternative hardware in older machines with those CPUs. However, the 11.6" MBA has NAND Flash which is going to make it so much faster than an old machine with 1.4 GHz CPU and 4200rpm HDD. In addition, it has a rocking 320m GPU that can drive a 30" ACD.

I think the problem here is just that we cannot differentiate that all of the other features are what truly make computers fast for the vast majority of users. Even for heavy CPU usage apps, there's still huge gains when it comes to the NAND Flash, L2 and when it's being used heavily NAND is so much faster access, GPU, instant-on software, more and faster RAM, and a system really made for speed via non-CPU methods.

What I mean is that most computer companies take Intel's marketing and roll with it. Sure, you can buy a Sony with a Core whatever CPU, but the MBA will run circles around it for everyday users. Unless you're a power user running super CPU intensive apps and treating the 11.6" MBA like it's a Mac Pro maxed, the MBA and its 1.4 GHz CPU are going to feel like a Wowee super Core i-whatever. Apple has really innovated here and put together a true speed demon for average users doing average things. No, it's not going to run certain apps like a Core i7 3 GHz with 4 GHz boost, but it's going to be so much faster than the other 1.4 GHz systems that you're comparing it to...


I think anyone who is thinking of using the MacBook Air as their main computer is going to be disappointed in either models after using it for a few weeks.

I am a photographer and I use a 17-inch MBP as my main computer but I also use an 11.6-inch Samsung netbook for image storage & review while I am on location. I will have to play with both of the new MB Air offerings, before I can make up my mind, but I have a feeling that the 11.6 (with a 128MB upgrade) will probably be the best choice for me.

My biggest concern though is the lack of needed ports, like a direct ethernet connection and firewire. I really wish that Apple would stop trying to be an award winning fashion house and concentrate on a good computer user interface instead.

Reading my post I am pretty sure that I will probably end up making the MBP 13-inch my next Mac purchase. Just waiting for the next processor upgrade.

Your uses don't seem to be the "norm" to me. I have been using MBAs since originally released as my main systems which I use over 90% of the time if not more. I have never thought the v 2,1 MBA with 1.86 or 2.13 GHz couldn't be my primary computer.

However, you need some of the features many do not. Most of us love WiFi and don't want Ethernet tying us down anywhere. The vast majority of peripherals use USB not FW. If you're using a 17" high-resolution display, sure a smaller display will feel cramped in comparison, but many of us use the MBA's display only when away from a desk. When connected to a 27" LED ACD, the MBA feels like a desktop to me.

To many of us, we don't have the same needs you do. Otherwise, we would probably be using MacBook Pros. It seems to be what you need, if you need FW, Ethernet, and etc. If I had your needs, I wouldn't buy an MBA. So maybe what you need to consider is you're not really the targeted market buyer of an MBA, and that's why you don't find it acceptable to be a primary computer for you... but most of us that would consider the MBA wouldn't need anything more than the MBA offers.

Quite honestly, if I believe the 13.3" MBA is faster and provides a better overall user experience than the 13.3" MBP. The MBA has a high-resolution display which is not available in the 13.3" MBP. The MBA has much faster NAND Flash than the MBPs (all of them whether BTO SSDs or STD HDDs), so the MBA user is going to have a system that does the common tasks a lot faster which means less wasted time waiting on the Mac with spinning beach balls. Those two features mean a better workspace and more efficient use of time via the performance of the NAND Flash.

So if you're the targeted market buyer for the MBA, you're much more likely to believe the MBA could be your primary Mac to when you're not the targeted market buyer for the MBA... like you who needs FW, Ethernet, more port selection, and etc.



Thanks. I definitely going to max out the 11.6, but even if I maxed out would it run youtube HD video, VM Fusion, Boot Camp and Remote Desktop SMOOTHLY.

Anyone who has the 11.6 please comment.

Thanks in advance.

Absolutely, when the software is using the 320m with h.264 it's going to be completely capable with videos. It will probably be a lot more capable when running Windows 7 than when running OS X though. However, I still don't think it would have stuttering problems like the original experienced.

I would love to see some reviews and stats come in to backup my thoughts on what the experience should be. I haven't ordered these myself yet either. I am still waiting for the big picture and details to come in, but I expect the vast majority to be really happy with the Nvidia 320m GPU.
 

YOKOJP

macrumors member
Oct 25, 2008
81
0
Thanks Scottsdale.

Definitely going to wait and see more reviews before getting the 11.6
 

netdog

macrumors 603
Feb 6, 2006
5,760
38
London
When did he backtrack on the screen size? Or do you mean that he backtracked simply by releasing the 11.6"?

For my needs, he was and remains right that 13.3" is the minimum screen size we really need. I can't imagine working in multiple windows on an 11.6" and I tried to at the Apple Store.

That said, I can easily accept that for some the 11.6" will be okay. It really depends what they plan to do with the computer. For me, the 11.6" isn't worth considering, as seductive it is. It looks like a little jewel, but for me it just doesn't work. For me, working on the 11.6" screen was like wearing shoes that are two sizes too small.
 

M87

macrumors 65816
Jul 18, 2009
1,259
290
11.6 with too many upgrades makes the 13 a better value, maxed out 13 becomes far too expensive for this kind of machine. I feel good about the base 13 with RAM upgrade because it is significantly cheaper than a 13 inch MBP with the same amount of solid state storage. There is a good balance of pros and cons at that point in regards to MBA vs MBP.
 

ditosou

macrumors member
Jan 27, 2010
61
0
hummmmmm

He did sorta backtrack on his position. However, he did get the full-sized keyboard in there which is more important than the display size in my opinion.

...

I would love to see some reviews and stats come in to backup my thoughts on what the experience should be. I haven't ordered these myself yet either. I am still waiting for the big picture and details to come in, but I expect the vast majority to be really happy with the Nvidia 320m GPU.

I almost decided to go to a full spec 11.6" (I know that is expensive but I will pay for that)... I need a real portable (1 Kg perfect) and a really small machine (hotel room safes :) ) my only fear is about battery lifetime.... 5 hours, do you think that this is a real number?
 

alic01

macrumors newbie
Feb 10, 2010
14
0
I think for me i will go for the basic 11.6" version.

I have a main workstation PC at home as well as a mac mini which i use for music and dvds in my bedroom. I have long been playing with the idea of an ipad but have never been able to convince myself they are the right thing for me even tho i love the look of them and way they work.

I guess you could say im looking at it from the other direction saying that the 11.6" MBA offers me a screen slightly larger than an ipad as well as a keyboard so half the screen doesn't disappear when i want to type. To me it just seems better value for my money, i dont want to pay massive amounts for essentially a toy and these have come in just at the right price point.

I dont need the laptop to do anything other than simple browsing and maybe open office files etc when i cant get to a desktop so this seems to suit me down to the ground, i will be buying as soon as i have the funds.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.