Macbook Air vs. Just leaked Thinkpad x300

[BongoBanger]

So the 5,000,000 who bought the leopard upgrade in the past 70 days don't give a toss about what OS they use?"

A couple of points:

1) How many of those sales were pre-installed versions of Leopard on new Macs?
2) The word I used was 'most'. The calculation below explains why 5,000,000 is still a minority figure even if it's a pure upgrade which it's not.

The 100,000,000 people who bought the XP upgrade don't give a toss about what OS they run?

I assume you're talking about those upgrading from Me or 98? It's an upgrade to another variant of Windows, they're not changing the OS they use to OSX or Linux. The point here is they're not changing the OS provider, they're upgrading an existing OS to support new features.

In any event it’s a moot point: Lets look at the number of PCs sold over XP's lifecycle from 2001 to 2008. Conservatively I'm going to say that it's about 1.2 billion Windows based units which means your upgrade figure of 100 million accounts for about 8% of that number meaning... yes, you've guessed it!... most (i.e. over 90%) people just bought their PC with the OS installed!

The people who waited in line to upgrade to Win95 don't care?

From Windows 3.1. Another MS OS. Again see above.

The fact that Intel, Dell, Lenovo, Gateway, HP bet their earnings last year to Wall Street on people buying new computers to run Vista? And the tens of thousands of analysts who believed them? (Shame Vista was a disaster.)

Uh... they made their earnings figures - well, except Dell - and Vista was pre-installed except where a choice was given (by Dell for example). You should also note that hardware sales are not dependent on software sales.

As for Vista being a disaster, LOL! You might want to check usage versus OSX as well as sales.

Or how people are leaving for Linux or OS X don't give a toss either?

Last I looked the combined usage in the global PC market was still considerably less than 10%. Quite considerably less actually.

What I find so funny about comments like yours is you don't understand market segments.

They’re not as amusing as those who think they do but clearly don’t.

Yes, there are segments of the market which don't care nor understand what an OS is.

They’re called 'the vast majority'.

But there are tens of millions of people who do.

There were 280 million PCs sold last year. Even assuming there are 20 million people who cared what OS they used that means there were 260 million - or over 90% if you prefer - who just use the off the shelf OS they got.

What part of 'most' are you having trouble with?

And for SOME people in the market, those who chose to run OS X, iLife, iWork, etc. the MacBook Air is their product of choice because it is the lightest laptop which runs OS X. And even if the Lenovo laptop was free, it wouldn't matter.

Yes, they're called the... wait for it... minority!

Useless comment? Only to you, my man. (ANd you're in for a sad disappointment if you don't see the bad news coming on the vaporware press release.)

See, before you ranted off you should have checked your information. The fact remains the vast majority of people who buy a PC don't care what OS they use. Everyone knows that OSX is more stable than XP or Vista because its tailored to one manufacturer and, frankly, Vista isn't anything to write home about but most people don't actually care as long as they can play games or browse or write a letter to the council complaining about rubbish collection.

So let's reiterate the point:

Over 90% of people use the original OS that the system came with.

Again, what part of ‘most people’ don't you get?

To the 9 guys I know who bought MBA's, it was their #1 reason for buying the MBA. And to Apple, that's all they care about.

Good for them, it's a minority market though.

Kids these days...

I know. If you had done your homework you wouldn't look like such an ill informed dolt. Unfortunately you do.

Come back when you have a clue.

 

[kuwisdelu]

SO will the IBM or MBA fly further? ;-p

The Air is much more aerodynamic. And, well, look at the name!

 

[czerc111]

Ugh! Stay away from these...

In one of my previous jobs, I was forced to work with Thinkpads back when IBM produced them. I went through THREE of them! On one, the screen went out, the second, the hard drive failed and the third failed to wake up one morning. Sure, it's nice to have all of those extra ports and drives and such but to go back to Windows AND unreliable hardware? No thanks. There is a reason why I drive a BMW and not a Ford. Same reason that I own two powerbooks and no windows machines.

 

[johnlvx]

In one of my previous jobs, I was forced to work with Thinkpads back when IBM produced them. I went through THREE of them! On one, the screen went out, the second, the hard drive failed and the third failed to wake up one morning. Sure, it's nice to have all of those extra ports and drives and such but to go back to Windows AND unreliable hardware? No thanks. There is a reason why I drive a BMW and not a Ford. Same reason that I own two powerbooks and no windows machines.

This is the exact opposite experience from mine. Every mac I have ever owned except for my iMac has had build issues and been returned. Two SR MBP's, both of which had yellow screens and one of them also had a raised trackpad corner that would catch on anything that brushed across the surface of the machine. My Air also got returned for running hot, noisy and having laughable battery life (90 minutes)("But you ran windows on it in a VM!!!!! It's Windows fault!!..... PLEASE.. WHAT A COPOUT).

On the other hand, my thinkpads are tanks. When lenovo first took full command of the product, there was a generation of machines with build issues. When this happened, there werent a handful of devotees that called and griped, there were many companies calling and threatening to no longer buy their 100, 1000 or 10000 machines a year (my company was one of those). So, what happened? The cleaned up their act and the machines we have been getting for the past two years have been great. When one isnt, they hand deliver a replacement.

This is subjective. I like mac and I like OSX. But I cannot say for instance that OSX with any of it's add on software can even compare to say, Office 2007 suite with OneNote and a well put together sharepoint portal. It is a dream to work with in a business environment. Now when it comes to organizing my photos, making movies to email to my family and the like, I laugh at the lousy stuff in windows for doing it. OSX is IMO clearly superior. Not only that, but the beauty of OSX inspires me to use my mac in ways that augment my personal life. That is one thing windows does not do for me.

It is really kinda goofy to compare the two. OSX is like a Porsche, XP/Vista is like a Ford Superduty. They are made for different reasons and for different people. Im the type of guy who relies on and loves his Superduty... but likes to enjoy the Porsche too.

 

[MazingerZ]

Mossberg's preview...

http://mossblog.allthingsd.com/20080213/x300/

 

[jayducharme]

but the hardware itself has proved itself to be very reliable over time.

I had one for a few years, and that Trackpoint was a pain in the butt. After a while, it wouldn't go back to its neutral position and the cursor would drift all over the screen. I don't know why they couldn't just use a trackpad.

 

[TechHistorian]

What a useless comment. Call me when you understand that most people don't give a toss about what OS they use.

For most people, true. Then again, most people don't use Macs. Mac users, however, do care about the OS they use. Despite what many posters on this thread believe, Mac users also care about function, especially when that function is Apple's trusted GUI. Case in point: the clone era. PowerComputing and Motorola bit heavily into Apple's sales at the time. Mac users didn't necessarily see Apple as the be-all and end-all of hardware back then. Indeed, a good number of us pointed out that PowerComputing actually offered better machines than Apple did. But what we really cared about was the OS. PowerComputing sold machines that Apple's OS and were better spec'ed. But it was the OS that was key then. And for the vast majority of Mac users now, it still is.

You might note that this is MacRumors ....

 

[jayducharme]

rescinded... accidental post

LOL! They even show the thing sitting on top of a manila envelope! But I'd bet they'd never slide it inside, because its greater bulk would be painfully evident compared with the Air.

 

[UltraNEO*]

I think it'll be more interesting to see a MacBook Air beater... I mean, a system that's just as thin, as light and as friendly to use (probably not possible)... regardless of it's OS compatibility. I don't think the average windows user can have a system without a optical drive, if they're planning to plugin stuff - anystuff...


Then again, you have to remember 99% of our Mac's share the same hardware platform as the competitor, so in theory a user could get Leopard (or some other BIGCAT) running on a non-Apple system, weather they can make it run natively and update it after, well.. remains to be seen.

Personally, I'd buy a Apple system and run our lovely OS on there... It's kinda nice to know we don't really have hardware incompatibility issues, phew! no headaches!

 

[feraca]

It's the whole package dummy

I think Lenovo's are the best laptops to run windows of any flavor - bought 200 of them in my former job. But if you want the best laptop experience (not a desktop replacement like my old 17" powerbook) you need to work with the air for a week and you won't want anything else.

My biggest issue on a laptop is the trackpad. The gesture capability is the biggest differentiator. I always used an external mouse on every other laptop I owned mac & pc and with the Air I have not had the urge to use one yet. Browsing the web takes no effort. Swipe / scroll etc on the trackpad vs navigating to the tiny scroll bars or back button - no contest - try it for a while and you'll see..

 

[BongoBanger]

For most people, true. Then again, most people don't use Macs. Mac users, however, do care about the OS they use.

Never the point I was arguing. It just irritates me when someone makes a silly point like that one. Mac users do care or they wouldn't be using Macs.

You might note that this is MacRumors ....

Oh I know, but that's no excuse for not admitting a basic truth though.

 

[dthree36]

I think its great that other PC builders are getting on the slim laptop bandwagon. But as a former Windows only user, I have to say I just prefer the Mac experience over windows. I say release all the slimmest most port supporting, internal DVD integrated solution you can make. As for me, I just prefer OSX and the Air for now. Maybe I would care more if OSX could be installed on a Windows laptop with out hacks. I love ingenuity and new designs but for now, I just love my MBA.

 

[diabolic]

The gesture capability is the biggest differentiator. I always used an external mouse on every other laptop I owned mac & pc and with the Air I have not had the urge to use one yet. Browsing the web takes no effort. Swipe / scroll etc on the trackpad vs navigating to the tiny scroll bars or back button - no contest - try it for a while and you'll see..

As dumb as I'm sure it sounds to those who haven't tried it, I completely agree. Using the gestures to browse the web on my MBA has spoiled me already. I keep trying to do it when I am using my Dell laptop. Guess I need to quit using the Dell.

 

[kimkrause]

stinkpad

you guys are mad...this ugly thing is 13 inches "wide" not a 13 inch wide screen. and that stinkpad keyboard is a tacky piece of crap. and the price? well ya get what ya pay for! how can you even compare it to the beauty of the MBA?

 

[weckart]

Thinkpads were universally acknowledged to have by far the best keyboards on any laptop, ever. I have used plenty in my time and can only agree, although I thought the Thinkpads were otherwise quite fugly and utilitarian. Unless Lenovo has dicked around with the design of its keyboards, there is no way the Air's keyboard will even be in the same league.

 

[Techguy172]

you guys are mad...this ugly thing is 13 inches "wide" not a 13 inch wide screen. and that stinkpad keyboard is a tacky piece of crap. and the price? well ya get what ya pay for! how can you even compare it to the beauty of the MBA?

This is exactly why I apple people are known as bad people Lenovo has the best keyboards in the world The MBA is not suitable for many people just because it looks good doesn't mean it is.

 

[MacTheSpoon]

I've heard bad things about Lenovo-built Thinkpads. Supposedly the reliability has decreased greatly since IBM was making them. Our IT department started recommending Dells instead of Lenovos because of the quality issues. That gives me pause about this x300, too; this will be the first Lenovo-designed laptop (IBM designed the previous ones). Not sure how solid it will be.

 

[Tosser]

I've heard bad things about Lenovo-built Thinkpads. Supposedly the reliability has decreased greatly since IBM was making them. Our IT department started recommending Dells instead of Lenovos because of the quality issues. That gives me pause about this x300, too; this will be the first Lenovo-designed laptop (IBM designed the previous ones). Not sure how solid it will be.

Haha, and you somehow recon a Mac has better build quality than the Thinkpads?

you guys are mad...this ugly thing is 13 inches "wide" not a 13 inch wide screen.

You obviously are blinded, fanboy.

The Thinkpad is physically 12.5 inches wide, and the widescreen is 13.3 inches _diagonally_ – just like the Airbook. Only: The Airbook is physically much wider.

and that stinkpad keyboard is a tacky piece of crap. and the price? well ya get what ya pay for! how can you even compare it to the beauty of the MBA?

Besides the fanboyism from your quarters, its obvious that you wouldn't go to lengths you do to defend the Airbook that really is a toy compared to this, unless you were having a serious bout of envy. It shines through, you know.

What strikes me about this, is all the SJ-fans that were all "wow! this Airbook is an engineering feat" and so on ad nauseum seems to have shut up. All we're left with is "Man, the Airbook is so beautiful – everything else is ugly and therefore it has to be crap".

 

[butterfly0fdoom]

As a former ThinkPad user, I must admit that ThinkPads are probably the best Windows machines. Their build quality is impeccable and their keyboards are incredible. Unfortunately, the OS that they come with is atrocious.

 

[Federico]

IBM x300= uglyyyyyy, in that case Sony is better

 

[HLdan]

I've heard bad things about Lenovo-built Thinkpads. Supposedly the reliability has decreased greatly since IBM was making them. Our IT department started recommending Dells instead of Lenovos because of the quality issues. That gives me pause about this x300, too; this will be the first Lenovo-designed laptop (IBM designed the previous ones). Not sure how solid it will be.

Why does this forum always label Mac users as bad people? If a Mac user says something negative about a Windows machine they are called bad and are accused of belonging to a cult.

And why is it when a Mac user praises a Mac then they are called a fanboy?

I certainly don't like this rude name calling.

What do you call Windows users? Are they perfect angels that deserve to call Mac users all these names?

 

[Tosser]

its ugly and runs vista..

next

If going by their other X-series, this can also be delivered with XP.

Further, I wouldn't even feel guilty if I made it a dual boot hackintosh. Well, a little towards the thinkpad, as I think one should run a nice distro of Linux on it. –*a true wild rover

 

[happyslayer]

The ULV 1.2 CPU is an absolute deal breaker. For those that had never used the Sony TZ with the 1.2, let me tell you it is very slow. There is a massive difference between the ULV and LV chips wen it comes to performance.

If battery life is the main concern... then maybe. Otherwise the MBA will be a way less frustrating experience.

On the question of whether people care about their OS, my experience as a computer consultant this past year has proven that people DO care.

I hear from users both business and personal... Will it have Vista? I hear Vista is really bad and slow with lot of problems. Lets just stick with XP. Also, I would guess that I now have about 20 percent more Mac OSX using customers just in this past year then in the last 10 years.

I just switched back to a Mac laptop because of the Air. Having owned about 8 ultraportable (3 lb or less) Windows based laptops (all without integrated optical) I can honestly say this MBA is the nicest, best built, easiest to use laptop.

Lenovo is not bad, but that ULV processor will make it slow!

Kind of disjointed statements, but I am giving my thoughts on a lot of points made in the last 7 pages.

 

[BWhaler]

A couple of points:

1) How many of those sales were pre-installed versions of Leopard on new Macs?

Zero. This is a different stat.

2) The word I used was 'most'. The calculation below explains why 5,000,000 is still a minority figure even if it's a pure upgrade which it's not.

Nope. 2.1M new units sold over same period. This makes it the majority, and means there is a large segment that care about the OS.

I assume you're talking about those upgrading from Me or 98? It's an upgrade to another variant of Windows, they're not changing the OS they use to OSX or Linux. The point here is they're not changing the OS provider, they're upgrading an existing OS to support new features.

Thanks for making my point.

Your point was "people don't give a toss about OS." But you are correct, that people do upgrade their OS for new features. Whether it is in the same family of OS was not your nor my point.

I'll ignore the rest since you so nicely made my point right here. Thanks for saving me the time to read of the rest.

Come back when you have a clue.

Thank you for giving me permission. You are one class act.

 

[butterfly0fdoom]

I've heard bad things about Lenovo-built Thinkpads. Supposedly the reliability has decreased greatly since IBM was making them. Our IT department started recommending Dells instead of Lenovos because of the quality issues. That gives me pause about this x300, too; this will be the first Lenovo-designed laptop (IBM designed the previous ones). Not sure how solid it will be.

Lenovo actually designed the Z60. And the T60. And the X60. And the R60. IBM's last designs were the 41/42s.