MacBook Pro 2021 - it's not just how it performs, it's how it feels

[Kierkegaarden]

Good review. I have the same model as you, and I agree — solid in every sense of the word.

Having been using an Air for my laptop, I was wondering what the weight difference would feel like. I actually prefer the substantial nature of the 16” Pro, much like the 17” back in the day. I like having both machines for different use cases, but the 16” is my main machine and seems like it will handle anything I throw at it.

 

[TimmKook]

MBP 2021 - Works Great 99% of the time until you try to use Touch ID after the computer has been asleep while plugged in. Unplug it, and TouchID works again. There's a review.

 

[SeenJeen]

MBP 2021 - Works Great 99% of the time until you try to use Touch ID after the computer has been asleep while plugged in. Unplug it, and TouchID works again. There's a review.

Sounds like a hardware issue. I've never had a problem with any Mac and Touch ID. I've had 16" Intel, 13" M1 Pro and now 14". Bring it to Apple for repair.

 

[TimmKook]

Sounds like a hardware issue. I've never had a problem with any Mac and Touch ID. I've had 16" Intel, 13" M1 Pro and now 14". Bring it to Apple for repair.

It's affecting a ton of (if not all) 2021 MBPs at this point from what I can tell. Most people apparently don't keep their MBPs plugged in all day, while opening and closing the lid and letting it sleep.

There is no repair at this time. But hopefully, Apple will have one soon. It definitely has to do with electricity and the way it's routed through the machine.

 

[ikramerica]

I get the idea of OP @aevan with the title of the thread... 😏 I've got also the 16" MacBook Pro, and it's being a little strange how this machine feels...
When first I got my hands on it, it felt soooo heavy... solid and complete, like a thick marble slab... I felt a little worried thinking that it wasn't really "portable".
And the charger is a big heavy brick! OMG, I can't take this with me...

Well, days after:
the charger is used at home, perhaps needed 3 days in a week! And it charges so fast! The routines and problems with battery charge have disappeared for me 😀.
I keep laptop in a nylon sleeve, gets into my work bag, fits perfectly well. But yes, I feel the weight.
But I open this machine on my desk and works beautifully, cold & silent !! And, heck, it feels powerful! It feels like a desktop workstation. EDIT: feels like a luxury desktop workstation (oh, the sound and screen... and the keyboard!...)
I haven't been under 30% battery never after a working day. (No heavy tasks, just browser, Teams, some video/audio streaming, and text/documents production/managing... and in short sessions).
If I care, I plug magsafe for a little while at home.

No, it's not exactly like how an iPad feels... I use my iPad Pro a lot also. The iPad is MORE charger-dependant, and the things you can do with it are so different...
No, no: -to me- the MacBook16 hanging from my shoulder is like kind of a magic trick, I feel I've achieved to make a full grand piano to fit in my bag; it's weird.

Yes. It's something about how it feels... 🤔
(Well, my thoughts after two week use... Let's see how it goes... But, yes, I'm impressed).

Replacing a 2012 Unibody 15.4” i7 here.

The 16” is nearly identical in width and height (a tad smaller), thinner buy 25%, and a pound lighter as well.

Those saying it is heavy need to readjust their thinking.

It’s also 3x faster when rendering. And with all CPU cores maxed at 100% for 10 minutes I couldn’t hear the fans.

I made the choice to not wait for 32GB because it only matters if the app you are using needs 10GB or more. I was only pushing 12 of 16GB used on the i7, so even with shared video memory I was willing to risk it.

3 instances of ArchCAD running still only use 5GB total for my size projects. So coupled with everything else running, still at 10-12GB used and 4-6 free. If I was designing a museum or convention center, I would need more RAM. Maybe.

 

[mattdeezy]

Agree. Its an amazing machine. I have had it since launch day and every day I think "this is the most impressed I have ever been with a laptop".

The speakers are a massive surprise for me still. Listen to Bohemian rhapsody in atmos on them when sitting in front of it. Incredible.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

It's affecting a ton of (if not all) 2021 MBPs at this point from what I can tell. Most people apparently don't keep their MBPs plugged in all day, while opening and closing the lid and letting it sleep.

There is no repair at this time. But hopefully, Apple will have one soon. It definitely has to do with electricity and the way it's routed through the machine.

I wonder if it could be an outlet issue as well. On an old MBP, on certain outlets, I noticed I would feel a “buzzing” on the palm rest if I used the fold out two prong adapter, but not if I used the grounded pin extender cable. Knowing how TouchID works, I can see how whatever charge that is might throw off the sensor.

With this one, I’ve never even used the charger it comes with, I have a high capacity battery pack and charge from there (either directly or pass-through).

 

[An-apple-a-day]

I wonder if it could be an outlet issue as well. On an old MBP, on certain outlets, I noticed I would feel a “buzzing” on the palm rest if I used the fold out two prong adapter, but not if I used the grounded pin extender cable. Knowing how TouchID works, I can see how whatever charge that is might throw off the sensor.

With this one, I’ve never even used the charger it comes with, I have a high capacity battery pack and charge from there (either directly or pass-through).

I agree, TimmKook’s TouchID issue does sound like a grounding problem.

 

[ssmed]

The laptop is nice - I have the 14 with lots of storage & RAM. The software upgrade to Monterey is not a bonus. Particularly...

• Poor support for HP printers ( as a company are we really expected to throw 6 printers away)
• Outlook Search inoperable (in the educational and corporate settings with whom we work full integration with MS is essential)

These things make a great machine a complete pain in the neck. I have been using my old laptop in parallel to work. A completely crazy situation! For the money I expect a computer that is usable from Day 1, not when I have reached the 12.5 update. Why they can't release computers with the last OS and then provide updates to the latest and greatest for those that need it is an anathema.

 

[ikir]

Best machines I've ever used.

 

[ikir]

The laptop is nice - I have the 14 with lots of storage & RAM. The software upgrade to Monterey is not a bonus. Particularly...

• Poor support for HP printers ( as a company are we really expected to throw 6 printers away)
• Outlook Search inoperable (in the educational and corporate settings with whom we work full integration with MS is essential)

These things make a great machine a complete pain in the neck. I have been using my old laptop in parallel to work. A completely crazy situation! For the money I expect a computer that is usable from Day 1, not when I have reached the 12.5 update. Why they can't release computers with the last OS and then provide updates to the latest and greatest for those that need it is an anathema.

No issue here with HP and Outlook is not a Apple product, Outlook is a terrible software, I'm working as an IT for a big company and we have a lot of issue with Outlook since years. If you mean Mail, in my experience Exchange/365 search within Mail is much better than Outlook itself.

 

[ssmed]

No issue here with HP and Outlook is not a Apple product, Outlook is a terrible software, I'm working as an IT for a big company and we have a lot of issue with Outlook since years. If you mean Mail, in my experience Exchange/365 search within Mail is much better than Outlook itself.

The bigger corporate printers are fine and are all included in the new HP Smart mechanism. Our small printers for our travelling staff are not included and we are using a homemade installer to get around this.

The fact is that Outlook and these printers worked well before Monterey and no longer work now! You cannot receive confidential files via the 365/Office mechanisms in mail.

 

[DMG35]

Replacing a 2012 Unibody 15.4” i7 here.

The 16” is nearly identical in width and height (a tad smaller), thinner buy 25%, and a pound lighter as well.

Those saying it is heavy need to readjust their thinking.

It’s also 3x faster when rendering. And with all CPU cores maxed at 100% for 10 minutes I couldn’t hear the fans.

I made the choice to not wait for 32GB because it only matters if the app you are using needs 10GB or more. I was only pushing 12 of 16GB used on the i7, so even with shared video memory I was willing to risk it.

3 instances of ArchCAD running still only use 5GB total for my size projects. So coupled with everything else running, still at 10-12GB used and 4-6 free. If I was designing a museum or convention center, I would need more RAM. Maybe.

It is heavy. Comparing it to a model that is 10 years older and saying its lighter than that one really isn't much of a win. I would hope that in 10 years Apple could make a lighter laptop than what they made back in 2012.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

Poor support for HP printers ( as a company are we really expected to throw 6 printers away)

Yes!
Be a man and do it now!
(I'm a fan of throwing them out of the third-floor window)

 

[aevan]

MBP 2021 - Works Great 99% of the time until you try to use Touch ID after the computer has been asleep while plugged in. Unplug it, and TouchID works again. There's a review.

Never had that issue.

 

[JMacHack]

The laptop is nice - I have the 14 with lots of storage & RAM. The software upgrade to Monterey is not a bonus. Particularly...

• Poor support for HP printers ( as a company are we really expected to throw 6 printers away)
• Outlook Search inoperable (in the educational and corporate settings with whom we work full integration with MS is essential)

These things make a great machine a complete pain in the neck. I have been using my old laptop in parallel to work. A completely crazy situation! For the money I expect a computer that is usable from Day 1, not when I have reached the 12.5 update. Why they can't release computers with the last OS and then provide updates to the latest and greatest for those that need it is an anathema.

Printers are ****ed in general. I wish I had a nickel for every printer problem I’ve ever had to diagnose, I’d be able to retire.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

What I got if you're curious: M1 Max, 64GB RAM, 4TB SSD in Silver. Irks me that they didn't add HDMI 2.1 nor Wifi 6E, but those aren't deal breakers.

The more I read about HDMI 2.1, the more I get the feeling it’s quite the mess of a “standard”. Might have been a good idea to just include 2.0 at this point because whatever 2.1 it supports might not be the same 2.1 in the device someone’s trying to connect to.

 

[HiVolt]

Yeah they're nice machines, one of my coworkers got at 14".

However It still sucks that they are unupgradeable and unrepairable for a reasonable cost.

You MUST choose the specs you think will last you for years.

 

[aevan]

Being an owner of the Pro Display XDR, PA32UCG, Liquid Retina iPad Pro, iPhone 13 Pro, and several CX OLEDs, I have to strongly disagree with you about the screen being OLED level black.

We get it, you have lots of stuff.

It seems to be pretty clear in Apple Stores it being easy enough for blooming to occur on the new display while I wait for my M1 Max to use one daily.

Yes, the blooming is what differentiates this screen from OLED, that's why I said OLEDs are still best for media consumption. I can definitely see blooming. But blacks are true blacks, and on the plus side, this hits 1600 nits, compared to the 800 nits of my OLED TV. With that said, OLED is nicer for gaming and movie watching.

Memory is a serious concern for productive laptop users who want to multitask with it at a desktop replacement level or a combination of engineering and design. 32GB is conventional of being the minimum for such people and it being ideal to use 64GB+ RAM. PC laptops and desktop workstations are specced that way accordingly.

32Gb is not a minimum for people who use this laptop for productive things. It really depends on what you're doing. I already told you what I'm doing - Zbrush, Blender, Photoshop, CSP - these are productive apps last time I checked. Whether it's a 50 million polygon Zbrush model or a 7000x8000 PSD illustration with lots of layers, I can still work smoothly and multitask. Claiming 32Gb without actually describing the actual workflow and file sizes tells me this is a random number. Basically, there is a group of people here who randomly decided what RAM is the minimum for what.

There is also a group who actually knows that this is very relative. There are situations where even 64Gb is not enough. And there are situations where 16 is more than you need. It's all a matter of project sizes.

16GB RAM is manageable with a very-cloud-oriented workflows. M1 Pro and M1 Max users would be severely under-capping themselves using 16GB

No, 16Gb RAM is manageable for a lot of workflows, from photography to illustration.

(16GB not an optional for M1 Max for obvious reasons accordingly).

No, it's for technical reasons. The M1 Max is basically two M1 Pro combined and M1 Pro comes with 16 or 32 modules. Everything is doubled, from memory bandwidth to memory size. This is probably because this is the easiest for them to make.

What I got if you're curious: M1 Max, 64GB RAM, 4TB SSD in Silver. Irks me that they didn't add HDMI 2.1 nor Wifi 6E, but those aren't deal breakers.

Either you have a very, very demanding workflow, or money to burn - but recommending 64Gb to "productive laptop users" is like recommending a truck for "serious drivers" without asking them what they need their vehicle for.

 

[lilkwarrior]

Yes, the blooming is what differentiates this screen from OLED, that's why I said OLEDs are still best for media consumption. I can definitely see blooming. But blacks are true blacks, and on the plus side, this hits 1600 nits, compared to the 800 nits of my OLED TV. With that said, OLED is nicer for gaming and movie watching.

Blooming alone ensures it's not true blacks of OLED because it's indicative of MINILED panels not having enough zones to have the contrast and blacks levels to avoid the blooming in the firs tplace; that's the benefit of individual pixels turning off in OLED panels.

32Gb is not a minimum for people who use this laptop for productive things. It really depends on what you're doing. I already told you what I'm doing - Zbrush, Blender, Photoshop, CSP - these are productive apps last time I checked. Whether it's a 50 million polygon Zbrush model or a 7000x8000 PSD illustration with lots of layers, I can still work smoothly and multitask. Claiming 32Gb without actually describing the actual workflow and file sizes tells me this is a random number. Basically, there is a group of people here who randomly decided what RAM is the minimum for what.

There is also a group who actually knows that this is very relative. There are situations where even 64Gb is not enough. And there are situations where 16 is more than you need. It's all a matter of project sizes.

I mention the convention and the class of laptops a M1 Pro and M1 Max is directly part of a class of laptops that has 32GB+ RAM available as a convention, I didn't say it's needed. This is indicative of practically all major laptop workstation line-ups from Asus (Pro Art Studio), Dell (Envy), Lenovo, and so on.

This is industry-wide common knowledge. It's a strawman to suggest I don't think the apps you mentioned are not productive software (I didn't say anything to suggest that).

It's always relative; conventions are not "be-all-or-else" things to conform to. It's fine 16GB RAM is good enough for you, and that M1 Max uses that amount of RAM for you more efficiently.

I'm merely pointing out competition, the needs of a variety of the average professional (iOS/Cloud-native/Deep-learning developers especially), the modern capabilities/usage of software popular today (Docker, Premiere or AfterEffects with 4K/8K footage, and etc), and the more informed UX knowledge we have of how people typically use computers today have raised the floor of RAM being more ideally 32GB than 16GB.

No, 16Gb RAM is manageable for a lot of workflows, from photography to illustration.

Another strawman: I didn't say 16Gb RAM isn't manageable; it's just not ideal to a meaningful amount of professionals (illustration and photography professionals dealing with high-res files as well) that have deemed 16GB insufficient along ago–especially when they want to run multiple creative professional apps running simultaneously. This is especially more true with ultra-wide and multiple monitor arrangements typical in corporate environments that further encourage this kind of multi-tasking.

32GB was so strongly requested by a meaningful amount of professionals (creative, engineering, and deep-learning professionals especially) Apple's VP of Hardware *apologized* for its omissions by professionals Macs in a rare PR release; Apple then responded with the 2019 Mac Pro, iMac Pro, and Macbook Pros having at least 32GB RAM as an option swiftly afterwards.

No, it's for technical reasons. The M1 Max is basically two M1 Pro combined and M1 Pro comes with 16 or 32 modules. Everything is doubled, from memory bandwidth to memory size. This is probably because this is the easiest for them to make.

Another strawman; that's why I said it's obvious: For technical reasons. The power the M1 Max has is specificlaly designed to accommodate creative professionals and other high-end productive users of laptops (M1 Pro and M1 Max are desktop replacements for some); this necessitated the arrangement you mentioned towards having 64GB RAM that was accounted for all along with the design of the silicon towards the current ideal RAM amount of 64GB RAM a meaningful amount of creative professionals and other pros want that's also indicative by workstation laptops pros can acquire today from other manufacturers (RTX Studio laptops and so on).

This again aligns with PC laptop and workstations that have 32GB RAM options by convention and 64GB RAM max typically with similar technical constraints as Apple.

Either you have a very, very demanding workflow, or money to burn - but recommending 64Gb to "productive laptop users" is like recommending a truck for "serious drivers" without asking them what they need their vehicle for.

Kind of an odd either-or fallacy, but I indeed have a demanding workflow. I would not have a Mac Pro (192GB RAM, RDNA2 MPX Module), Pro Display XDR, and a PA32UCG because I have "money to burn".


Creative professionals and Engineers that want a machine to have great longevity that aligns with the rest of the market would logically match the average of workstation laptops that are out there for professional use; that was the context of my recommendation. I based my recommendation based on what you use, and those apps also recommend such RAM amounts for the most in-demand tasks/work used within those apps.

Didn't suggest you in particular had to conform to such conventions/recommendations. My latent assumption was multi-tasking in a matter you simply don't and would have been what I could've made clearer.

 

[aevan]

....

Ok, so we disagree but you explained your views well. Let's leave it at that.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

But blacks are true blacks, and on the plus side, this hits 1600 nits, compared to the 800 nits of my OLED TV. With that said, OLED is nicer for gaming and movie watching.

I’m guessing that if you drive an OLED up to 1600 nits, it’d be hard NOT to see blooming on it. There’s no way your eye can see a lit pixel at 1600 nits and a tiny black pixel RIGHT next to it and the eye not perceive somewhat of a halo.

 

[aevan]

I’m guessing that if you drive an OLED up to 1600 nits, it’d be hard NOT to see blooming on it. There’s no way your eye can see a lit pixel at 1600 nits and a tiny black pixel RIGHT next to it and the eye not perceive somewhat of a halo.

Yeah, I definitely see that psychological effect on OLEDs, bright spots "glow" in the dark, you're exactly right. And for a while, I was like: why do people say OLEDs have no blooming, when I see it? But then I saw *actual* blooming on LCD screens with dimming zones - and figured what that means. It's a much larger area where blacks are dark grays. It can be very noticeable, even on Mini LED screens - and it's different than OLED "glow". But, it's ok, I don't mind it that much, for work I prefer Apple's approach. For games and movies, I still prefer OLED, even though new MBPs and 12.9" iPad Pro is amazing at that, too.

 

[TimmKook]

I agree, TimmKook’s TouchID issue does sound like a grounding problem.

I wonder if it could be an outlet issue as well. On an old MBP, on certain outlets, I noticed I would feel a “buzzing” on the palm rest if I used the fold out two prong adapter, but not if I used the grounded pin extender cable. Knowing how TouchID works, I can see how whatever charge that is might throw off the sensor.

With this one, I’ve never even used the charger it comes with, I have a high capacity battery pack and charge from there (either directly or pass-through).

You both make good points, but I'm using the 3-prong extension cable Apple sells which is grounded. Happens whether I use that or the 2-prong default charger, on a different outlet. And I've DM'ed a bunch of people who also have the issue. Unfortunate to spend 4K on a laptop and not be able to use TouchID when charging!

 

[Unregistered 4U]

You both make good points, but I'm using the 3-prong extension cable Apple sells which is grounded. Happens whether I use that or the 2-prong default charger, on a different outlet. And I've DM'ed a bunch of people who also have the issue. Unfortunate to spend 4K on a laptop and not be able to use TouchID when charging!

Yup, I still have an old one and, when I do eventually use the charger, I’ll be sure to use it combined with that. The only thing power related would be if the outlet was improperly grounded, but I doubt there are tons of improperly grounded outlets that just happen to be in all the MBP 16 houses