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MacBook vs. MacBook Pro - EVERYTHING the extra $500 gets you.
- Thread starter nickatnite
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I'd consider it disappointing, if after the MacBook Pro gets a case redesign like the MacBook did, that the hard drive wasn't easy to replace.
It wasn't like it was a piece of cake to replace the drive before the MacBook case redesign.
http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/iBook-G4-14-Inch/Hard-Drive-Replacement-Page-1-Battery
Thats irrelevant to our debate. We are not talking about past products vs. future products, as of the currently available products, the macbook offers much better user upgradability than it's "pro" counterpart.
IMO, the macbook vs. macbook pro debate is fruitless since every buyer has a multitude of varying subjective and objective criteria for selection and thus what one consumer thinks is a "good value" will contradict the opinions of others.
If your thinking does not permit you to choose critically and your decision ultimately requires the biased-prone opinions of strangers then my advice is for you to buy the cheapest option available (in which case is the macbook). This option offers the least risk and a lower financial cost of a bad decision.
So many people just look at the basics specs (aka, Processor speed, amount/speed of RAM etc...), and never actually take into account the design of the logic board/motherboard.
The motherboard on the MacBook Pros is far, far better than that on the MacBooks. For example in Blender (3D animating/rendering software), my 1.83 GHz, 1GB Ram MacBook Pro outperforms a 'same spec' MacBook by about 30/40%. Same goes for GarageBand and Reason, it's far faster and supports many more instruments.
The MacBook Pro really is quite a bit better than the MacBook, that's what people don't realise.
Also, as for the denting case thing, the MacBook Pro's case my dent more easily, but this is because it's absorbing the shocks (unlike the MacBook's case), protecting the innards of the machine...
The motherboard on the MacBook Pros is far, far better than that on the MacBooks. For example in Blender (3D animating/rendering software), my 1.83 GHz, 1GB Ram MacBook Pro outperforms a 'same spec' MacBook by about 30/40%. Same goes for GarageBand and Reason, it's far faster and supports many more instruments.
The MacBook Pro really is quite a bit better than the MacBook, that's what people don't realise.
Also, as for the denting case thing, the MacBook Pro's case my dent more easily, but this is because it's absorbing the shocks (unlike the MacBook's case), protecting the innards of the machine...
You are approaching snake oil territory here.
The simplest explanation is always the best. GPU.
None of that crazy better logic board nonsense.
Blender3D is a rendering application no?
Rather than saying "far" faster perhaps some quantized results would be better? I do not know if you are a 200% "far" kind of guy or a 50% "far" kind of guy.
There are also some benches on Barefeats that disagrees with your finding. For all we know you might have perceived it to be faster when it isn't. After all it is a 100% more expensive machine. Most human beings don't like to feel like they are idiots.
Full marks for fanboism!
In next season of Apple's advertising propaganda, we will talk about Crumple Zones on the MBP to protect your computer's innards!
Your Macbook Pro might have magical vacumn tubes in them for that "warm" and "more appealing to females" quality of sound through its puny 15W speakers, but in Macbooks all we have are surface mounted devices and PCBs.
Shocks?
Who cares.
The only component that cares is the hard drive. Making the whole computer self-destructive to protect that one component is insane.
When you say "the macbook offers much better user upgradability than it's 'pro' counterpart", if you mean that the hard drive is easier to replace on the MB, then I agree!
My post was just me commenting that I found it odd that someone would feel "disappointed" that the MBP was lacking a feature that it obviously isn't going to get before a major case redesign.
Sorry to have added irrelevance into your debate there.
The better question this raises would be... is the MBP ever going to get a new case redesign?
And will they include better screens along with the design?
We can dream.
All I hope to see is just a better screen.
I believe you missed another poing: software. At least with Powerbooks and iBooks, iBooks came with Quicken, whereas Powerbooks came with Quickbooks. Also GraphicConverter and OmniOutliner/OmniGraffle were thrown in on Powerbooks. I'm not sure if this happens anymore or not.
Sorry about starting a debate with this thread. That wasn't my intention.
I meant to compare the black MacBook with the MacBook Pro because they both have, in my opinion, a much more professional look than a white MacBook. Presentation is everything in the business world and I want to make sure I don't look like every other college kid on the block, which by the way I am in college myself, so nothing against higher education students. I compared them because that's what I want and I'll pay the price for it. From other threads I've read I know I'm not alone here either.
Speaking of price, the difference would be $500 in this case. Sure, some may argue it's $700, but they're forgetting to consider the 40-60GB smaller hard drive on the white MacBooks, depending on model, as well as the entry level having only a combo-drive and half the RAM. Plus, through Apple it costs $200 to upgrade the hard drive on the entry level model to the BlackBook/MBP size, and $150 for the higher-end white model (yeah, I know you could do it 3rd party, but that's a different discussion altogether).
So anyway, I hope my intentions for creating this thread are now clearer than they were. Sorry that I didn't mention that professional looking hardware was also a factor in my purchasing decision, but that was a large reason I was comparing the two.
I meant to compare the black MacBook with the MacBook Pro because they both have, in my opinion, a much more professional look than a white MacBook. Presentation is everything in the business world and I want to make sure I don't look like every other college kid on the block, which by the way I am in college myself, so nothing against higher education students. I compared them because that's what I want and I'll pay the price for it. From other threads I've read I know I'm not alone here either.
Speaking of price, the difference would be $500 in this case. Sure, some may argue it's $700, but they're forgetting to consider the 40-60GB smaller hard drive on the white MacBooks, depending on model, as well as the entry level having only a combo-drive and half the RAM. Plus, through Apple it costs $200 to upgrade the hard drive on the entry level model to the BlackBook/MBP size, and $150 for the higher-end white model (yeah, I know you could do it 3rd party, but that's a different discussion altogether).
So anyway, I hope my intentions for creating this thread are now clearer than they were. Sorry that I didn't mention that professional looking hardware was also a factor in my purchasing decision, but that was a large reason I was comparing the two.
Why are some raining on everyones parade that bought the MBP
I may not have eagle eyes but the MBP screen looks fine to me. I also bought it for other reasons.
It will not be outdated in 6 months like the MB's ... The MBP will last maybe 9, then it will be outdated, So that $500 by the way bought me 3 extra months
Oh ya, I conned Comp usa into meeting a deal with Mac Mall.com with a price match that included parallels, and Win XP. Got me the MBP for $2237 the way they priced it out, then I returned the unopened software for a full store credit (not the matched sale price) and got a printer and some other goodies as some call them.
3. Some people, especially me, buys on impulse, I tend to buy the best there is because I can. May not mean its the best for everyone, but hey, different strokes for different folks.
OK, off soapbox
Hey everybody, Enjoy our Mac's! There all good!
I may not have eagle eyes but the MBP screen looks fine to me. I also bought it for other reasons.
It will not be outdated in 6 months like the MB's ... The MBP will last maybe 9, then it will be outdated, So that $500 by the way bought me 3 extra months
Oh ya, I conned Comp usa into meeting a deal with Mac Mall.com with a price match that included parallels, and Win XP. Got me the MBP for $2237 the way they priced it out, then I returned the unopened software for a full store credit (not the matched sale price) and got a printer and some other goodies as some call them.
3. Some people, especially me, buys on impulse, I tend to buy the best there is because I can. May not mean its the best for everyone, but hey, different strokes for different folks.
OK, off soapbox
Hey everybody, Enjoy our Mac's! There all good!
I haven't bought an Intel mac yet, but from my experiences with PowerBook vs. iBook, I can wholeheartedly attest that the Pro laptops are a MUCH better value. Not only do you get the cool value and an overall better machine, you also get the critical eBay factor. I'm not sure if this argument is valid anymore, but check out eBay auctions for iBooks and PowerBooks. You can still sell an old TiBook for quite a bit of money, while no one wants even the latest (i.e., last) revision of the iBook.
Does anyone know the differences in build quality between the MB and MBP?? I was under the impression that the MBP (and PowerBook before it) was significantly better built. All sorts of smart designs decisions, such as bracing around the LCD to prevent damage from pressure, more impact proof logic board, etc. Is this the case?
I learned my lesson once before and will never again buy a non-Pro consumer laptop. All you MB lovers are happy now, but in two or three years you will regret not dishing out an extra $500-$700 for the Pro variant.
MBP all the way
Does anyone know the differences in build quality between the MB and MBP?? I was under the impression that the MBP (and PowerBook before it) was significantly better built. All sorts of smart designs decisions, such as bracing around the LCD to prevent damage from pressure, more impact proof logic board, etc. Is this the case?
I learned my lesson once before and will never again buy a non-Pro consumer laptop. All you MB lovers are happy now, but in two or three years you will regret not dishing out an extra $500-$700 for the Pro variant.
MBP all the way
Well, such is the case with you, but quite simply this isn't the case with everybody. Browse the internet, send email, keep a photo library in iPhoto. Which one is the better "value"?
This deserves three:
.Ummm, no.
Says who? This is bunk. Plain and simple.
A resurrected soul of a PowerPC processor just called.
"Good resale value on Macs is dead."
A better example (since we are talking about MB vs MBPs here) would be resale value of MBs vs MBPs. You can probably get ~ $700 for your 2ghz Core Duo white Macbook, you can barely get $1400 for your (formerly) $2499 Core Duo Macbook Pro 2.16ghz.
Even on the perceived value front people can see straight through the MBP for what it is.
Sorry, we are not talking about Thinkpads here. In fact the Macbooks are the ones which got a really innovative case redesign while the MBPs are the ones which got left out. Try swopping out memory sticks on a Macbook someday, the latches are freaking clever.
LCD panels from unknown companies like AUO, separating top cases, warping LCD bezels, worn out latch releases, squeaking keyboards... RIIIIIIGHT. Keep believing what you believe buddy!
And who cares about the LCD screens on the MBPs anyway, even if it breaks Apple will just charge you $1000 to replace a screen that costs them at most $50 a pop. Like those are high quality screens.
In 2-3 years the MB lovers' monies would have done a lot more work for them and they could have purchased 2-3 more refurb MBs that by that time frame are waaaaay faster than your pokey 3 generation old MBP.
With enough screen grains to fit North Korean and according to some, Soviet Russia
Mine is actually cooler than my 12" PowerBook, at least while sitting here typing this. Once I get iTunes and iPhoto and iDVD open, things get a little toastier. But that's why I've got smcFanControl. If it gets too toasty, I'll spool up the fans to full speed for a few minutes. It'll cool back down significantly.
Macbooks feels cooler on my lap compared to the MBPs.
My comparison might be flawed though, since it is comparing a C2D 2.33ghz chip with a CD 2.0ghz.
Another benefit of the MBP over the MB is simply the look of the machine. Although I suppose the MB is kind of cute, it is unfortunately way too unprofessional looking. Before you fan girl switchers start writing "Ummm, no," hear me out. In the science world, at least, you never see anyone with MB's or iBooks. All you see at conferences and presentations are MBP's or PowerBooks (on the Mac side). This is a result of the fact that MB's are targeted at consumers and college students while MBPs are targeted at grad school students and professionals. This may also explain why Apple is unfortunately not as energetic about updating they MBP's as they are their MB's, their target audience is largely already sold. This whole pay premium for Pro may sound silly to some of you, but it is a fact of life, like with any other status symbol. Although a $20 disposable Casio watch is ultimately an infinitely better deal than an expensive quality watch, how many Casio's will you see on the hands of businessmen, professionals, etc?
iW00t, I didn't understand your answer to my question. Are the MBP's better build than MB's besides the magnetic latch and memory stick latches? Yes or no? I assumed that one of the reasons for the MBP's high price relative to other PC's was the ThinkPad-like design benefits.
Another final point, I may be making a mistake by saying this and asking to be bashed by switcher fan girl trolls, but look at the Mac's used by experienced users. I would guess that most use Pro models over consumer models. That tells you something.
iW00t, I didn't understand your answer to my question. Are the MBP's better build than MB's besides the magnetic latch and memory stick latches? Yes or no? I assumed that one of the reasons for the MBP's high price relative to other PC's was the ThinkPad-like design benefits.
Another final point, I may be making a mistake by saying this and asking to be bashed by switcher fan girl trolls, but look at the Mac's used by experienced users. I would guess that most use Pro models over consumer models. That tells you something.
I'm sure my first generation black MacBookstill working with original box and installation disks will do very well on the eBay scale in about 10 years from now.
this is true. same with Mac Pros and iMacs. the Pros will buy the Mac Pros and the regular consumers will buy the iMacs.
"better" is a relative term because MBs are "better" for the people that need them and MBPs are better for the Pros.
one thing that for sure sealed the deal for me on the MBP......would be when you're using the macbook and not sitting completely level. For example, using it on a bed, the design is really crappy around the outside of the machine like where the keyboard is etc. My gf has a MB and her hands and arms are always getting jabbed/cut when typing when she isn't sitting the machine on a flat level. I'm surprised this wasn't fixed with the Rev. B upgrade. If you're not sure what i'm talking about......it's the outer edge around the machine that is just really freaking sharp and whoever thought of this design must be really stupid. I get uncomfortable just using it to check my email. With all the other upgrades the MBP offers and then slicing/cutting feature on the MB.....that sold me easily on the MBP. Plus I don't like my laptops looking like cheap toys that will get greasy and dirty after 2 weeks use.
that is just something that they simply say to justify the price difference. I know plenty of people that are CONSUMERS that hate the look of the toy/plastic macbooks and will only buy a MBP just simply for the looks. I think it's just a matter of are you willing to pay that premium for that look or not. If it was simply for professionals they wouldn't sell them like hotcakes in a retail store. there would be a special number or online website for you to order them. Kind of like how Dell does things. If you really think about it....the specs that come on the MBP are pretty standard specs. All the major computer companies have these same specs on their consumer line......so i gets pretty tiring hearing they are for professionals and marketed towards that when they are standard specs like any other company has...just an over the top pricetag when compared to other companies......
That doesn't mean i don't regret buying or spending money on my MBP....bc i love this damn thing. It's simply an awesome machine....i'm just not a fan of the toy plastic looking macbooks....simple as that.
that is just something that they simply say to justify the price difference. I know plenty of people that are CONSUMERS that hate the look of the toy/plastic macbooks and will only buy a MBP just simply for the looks. I think it's just a matter of are you willing to pay that premium for that look or not. If it was simply for professionals they wouldn't sell them like hotcakes in a retail store. there would be a special number or online website for you to order them. Kind of like how Dell does things. If you really think about it....the specs that come on the MBP are pretty standard specs. All the major computer companies have these same specs on their consumer line......so i gets pretty tiring hearing they are for professionals and marketed towards that when they are standard specs like any other company has...just an over the top pricetag when compared to other companies......
That doesn't mean i don't regret buying or spending money on my MBP....bc i love this damn thing. It's simply an awesome machine....i'm just not a fan of the toy plastic looking macbooks....simple as that.
you should have gotten a glossy screen. I noticed HUGE differences in glossy and matte in store and went with glossy. I guess you didn't compare the 2 before you dropped $2500.
I tried to read all posts but I may be missing something.
How about sudden motion protection offered on the Pro version ?
If you also need (or want) to attach a monitor at resolution
higher than 1920 by 1200, only Pro models will do it.
These small things may work to the argument that Pro users
have a more polished and "better" machine.
Even so, looking only at the hardware aspects, I found difficult
to justify the extra expense Apple put on the Pro models.
It's all about the software after all.
How about sudden motion protection offered on the Pro version ?
If you also need (or want) to attach a monitor at resolution
higher than 1920 by 1200, only Pro models will do it.
These small things may work to the argument that Pro users
have a more polished and "better" machine.
Even so, looking only at the hardware aspects, I found difficult
to justify the extra expense Apple put on the Pro models.
It's all about the software after all.