macbook wireless range???

[Timepass]

i'm sorry, but i'm of the mindset that if you don't want people jacking your bandwidth, then take the easy precautions to stop it.

perhaps if he drags down their network, his neighbors will start wising up.. they certainly don't leave their cars unlocked and the keys in the ignition, right? use some common sense.

oh, and to the OP: if your macbook can't see their network or gets a really poor signal.. don't expect much faster speeds than your dial-up.

It still illege and morally uneithical. Just because some else is not smart enough or has the know how to something like secury there network does mean that taking advataege of it is right.

A counter example is I can set up an open wireless network and wait for some passer by to join it. And see if they are just sharing there entire hard drive. If so I give me less than a min and I can complete mess up the computer or just delete/edit stuff over the network. Is that right? They are on my network and they where not smart enough or didnt have the know how to not share critical system files. By your logic I well with in my right to go in and steal data or edit files. (I would target there boot file and edit that. It would not be noticed until the next boot up and with out the boot file it not going to boot.)

Joining a public network (like one at a coffee house is fine) but privite ones set up by home users if you dont have there prermision it not going to be legel. Weather or not they lock it down.


You have to rememeber a lot of people dont understand networking or wireless networking. They just know that putting wireless card in the computer and a wireless router is all it takes. They dont understand making it safe. Mix that in with Windows is a royal pain when it comes to getting secure wireless networks. (you have to enter the hex key, you cannt use the passphased used to make the key. Something they better of shaped up in vista since XP when XP was made was back when wireless was a fairlly new thing how it was growing.)
Heck for my wireless network at my house I put the key into a text file and keep it on a flash to give to friends who come over. It woudl be so much easier if I could just tell them the pass phased I used and not this long key just easier to copy/pasted in.

 

[regre7]

The owner of the wireless network is probably paying for internet service. You're using it. End of discussion.

And as far as securing a wireless network goes, WEP is extremely unuseful, because I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that it was broken a while back. It'll keep out the rich, snot nosed 10-year-olds, though.

 

[notjustjay]

But to answer the OP's question... My brother just got his MacBook and I am AMAZED at the number of wireless networks he can see. I think with my 12" PowerBook I can see 2 of them, maybe, fleetingly, and there's no way there's enough signal strength for me to connect to them.

I run two at home (one's a decoy.. hehe). They're run out of the main floor and basement of my house. My Powerbook, on the second floor, can't reliably pick up the network from the basement (which is fine, 'cause that's the decoy..)

On his MacBook? 10-15 networks, easily. Maximum signal strength on the two from our house. I haven't tried connecting to the neighbors'. However, I can tell whose they are because some of them use wireless names like "Smiths' Network" or "123 Olive Street".

 

[Timepass]

The owner of the wireless network is probably paying for internet service. You're using it. End of discussion.

And as far as securing a wireless network goes, WEP is extremely unuseful, because I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that it was broken a while back. It'll keep out the rich, snot nosed 10-year-olds, though.

Almost any wireless enquition can be broken fairly easily. Wep is good for keeping vast majority of people off the network. Mostly because it just makes it harder to get on to it and it just not worth it.

Yeah my system is WEP because it works. Also i wwill noticed if some one else other then my room mate or I got on the network because I go into the router admin area almost every day to adjust something and doing a lot of fine toning of the router and playing with it. Plus I quite off go in and change some setting temporay to give me more bandwith for a few mins when I need it.

WEP is crap but it better than noughting else and WPA and the others are pretty flaky to get to work on everything. WEP works on everything. The others still have issues. I am hoping with time that those issues get fixed.

 

[ich1ban]

http://www.tomsnetworking.com/2005/03/08/how_to_bluesniper_pt1/

That is soooo cool !

 

[xfiftyfour]

It still illege and morally uneithical. Just because some else is not smart enough or has the know how to something like secury there network does mean that taking advataege of it is right.

A counter example is I can set up an open wireless network and wait for some passer by to join it. And see if they are just sharing there entire hard drive. If so I give me less than a min and I can complete mess up the computer or just delete/edit stuff over the network. Is that right? They are on my network and they where not smart enough or didnt have the know how to not share critical system files. By your logic I well with in my right to go in and steal data or edit files. (I would target there boot file and edit that. It would not be noticed until the next boot up and with out the boot file it not going to boot.)

Joining a public network (like one at a coffee house is fine) but privite ones set up by home users if you dont have there prermision it not going to be legel. Weather or not they lock it down.


You have to rememeber a lot of people dont understand networking or wireless networking. They just know that putting wireless card in the computer and a wireless router is all it takes. They dont understand making it safe. Mix that in with Windows is a royal pain when it comes to getting secure wireless networks. (you have to enter the hex key, you cannt use the passphased used to make the key. Something they better of shaped up in vista since XP when XP was made was back when wireless was a fairlly new thing how it was growing.)
Heck for my wireless network at my house I put the key into a text file and keep it on a flash to give to friends who come over. It woudl be so much easier if I could just tell them the pass phased I used and not this long key just easier to copy/pasted in.

1. i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that these are all typing errors rather than grammatical incompetency.. could you please pay a little more attention so that others aren't pained to read through three paragraphs of broken english?

2. if someone knows so little about wireless networks that they can't even follow their manual's instructions of setting up a password, then they really shouldn't be bothering with routers and wireless cards at all. would you build a house if you didn't know how to attach doors?

3. if we (more specifically my fiance, the tech-geek of us) catch people on our network that aren't supposed to be there, you'd better believe he'll use it to his advantage and teach them a little lesson - especially if their dumb enough to get onto our network AND leave their computers wide open. now, certainly not as severe as crapping on their boot file, but reading their packets and putting something on their hard drive? absolutely. again, my point: don't mess around in things you're not familiar with (whether setting up a wireless network, or hijacking someone else's).

4. as for the legalities of joining an insecure network, many have already pointed out that it is in fact NOT illegal to do so, and honestly, even if it were.. do you really think someone will prosecute for it? furthermore, do you think someone that can't be bothered to password-protect their network will even have the know-how to FIND OUT someone else is jacking their bandwidth??


get off your high horse of ethics. sorry, but dumb people are taken advantage of all the time in this world (loans, buying new cars, lending money where they shouldn't, fraud, break-ins, scams..the list goes on).. why would wireless networks be any different?

 

[vv-tim]

Tell that to the man in Florida who was arrested for using someone else's WiFi. Link

If you read the full story, it sounds like he was actually doing something illegal either -while on the network- (child pornography, piracy, whatever) or to get on the network (cracking his WEP key or whatnot).

It's illegal to circumvent security to get onto a network (as in "unauthorized use of a computer network"). An open network authorizes anyone to use it, so that's not in violation of the law.

As for people that are saying WEP is broken and whatnot, yes, that's true. If someone really is that badly in need of access to the internet, they can crack your WEP key and connect. At that point, however, they've broken the law...

And honestly, how many people are going to sit around trying to break your WEP key to steal your internet access? Simple security keeps people out for the most part. It's like "The Club" that was so popular on cars not long ago. It's more of a deterrant than a failsafe device, but it works well.

 

[Timepass]

1. i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that these are all typing errors rather than grammatical incompetency.. could you please pay a little more attention so that others aren't pained to read through three paragraphs of broken english?

2. if someone knows so little about wireless networks that they can't even follow their manual's instructions of setting up a password, then they really shouldn't be bothering with routers and wireless cards at all. would you build a house if you didn't know how to attach doors?

3. if we (more specifically my fiance, the tech-geek of us) catch people on our network that aren't supposed to be there, you'd better believe he'll use it to his advantage and teach them a little lesson - especially if their dumb enough to get onto our network AND leave their computers wide open. now, certainly not as severe as crapping on their boot file, but reading their packets and putting something on their hard drive? absolutely. again, my point: don't mess around in things you're not familiar with (whether setting up a wireless network, or hijacking someone else's).

4. as for the legalities of joining an insecure network, many have already pointed out that it is in fact NOT illegal to do so, and honestly, even if it were.. do you really think someone will prosecute for it? furthermore, do you think someone that can't be bothered to password-protect their network will even have the know-how to FIND OUT someone else is jacking their bandwidth??


get off your high horse of ethics. sorry, but dumb people are taken advantage of all the time in this world (loans, buying new cars, lending money where they shouldn't, fraud, break-ins, scams..the list goes on).. why would wireless networks be any different?

But you see number 2 is more than likely breaking some laws.

Legally it may be fine. Ethicly and morally it is stealling and is not fine. A polite thing to do would be to inform the person and help them set it up to work. The instruction are very overwhelming to some one who not geek inclided. There is so much infomation in the router admin page that it confusing if you dont know what you are doing. On top of the fact windows is crap when it comes to wireless networking. I like the windows program for handleing it over what the 3rd party provide because it less mess to put up with. Just it is not intrutive at all. I just hoping and praying Vista fixes that (the should. It was forgiveble back in 2001 when XP was made. It will not be forgiveble in 2007 where wireless is the way things are going).

A work around I did on my parents routers since equation was not working with my dads laptop at all was to just do athorized mac address only. That pretty much removed the problem of others getting on it.

But even if the person does not lock it down a morally right thing to do would be to talk to them about it. most people are not going to care if you want to share there internet and offer to help lock it down for them.

For the techno geeks out there we just enjoy playing around with the stuff and learning more about them....
*speaking of which I need to plug in my mess up linksy router and experment with putting a 3rd party flash on it.

 

[Dyaus]

2. if someone knows so little about wireless networks that they can't even follow their manual's instructions of setting up a password, then they really shouldn't be bothering with routers and wireless cards at all. would you build a house if you didn't know how to attach doors?

Perhaps they were in a hurry or just forget to lock up their wireless network. If someone leaves their home and forgets to lock the front door is is legal to walk in and start snooping around?

 

[wilk0076]

But, their wireless signal is being broadcast into my house... And I can't use it??

 

[brbubba]

Perhaps they were in a hurry or just forget to lock up their wireless network. If someone leaves their home and forgets to lock the front door is is legal to walk in and start snooping around?

Stop using innapropriate analogies! From a strict legal standpoint, it varies by state, something I researched thoroughly during the FL arrest. For instance NY laws imply that its ok, while FL laws do not. However, any conviction in the Florida case would be absurd because everyone surfing the Internet would be guilty of the same crime.

Which brings me to my main point. The reason this is not ethically or morally wrong is because the entire Internet works on the same authentication model. When you decided to visit macrumors today you never asked the owner if it was ok to use this forum, you are effectively stealing his/her bandwidth, server time, and trespassing onto a private network. Now tell me how this is any different from an open access point?

The answer is, its NOT any different. When you send a request to this website, their servers say ok I see you and this is what you have permission to look at. All permissions are based around an electronic handshake which administrators setup. The exact same thing happens when you go on a wireless network, your computer asks for an IP and the router gives you one, hence granting you permission to access the network. Just because many people don't have the technical knowledge to secure their WiFi does not mean that they are exempt from the responsibility to act as their networks administrator and properly secure the wireless connection!!! Ignorance is not an excuse, neither in the eyes of the law or in life.

 

[Timepass]

Stop using innapropriate analogies! From a strict legal standpoint, it varies by state, something I researched thoroughly during the FL arrest. For instance NY laws imply that its ok, while FL laws do not. However, any conviction in the Florida case would be absurd because everyone surfing the Internet would be guilty of the same crime.

Which brings me to my main point. The reason this is not ethically or morally wrong is because the entire Internet works on the same authentication model. When you decided to visit macrumors today you never asked the owner if it was ok to use this forum, you are effectively stealing his/her bandwidth, server time, and trespassing onto a private network. Now tell me how this is any different from an open access point?

The answer is, its NOT any different. When you send a request to this website, their servers say ok I see you and this is what you have permission to look at. All permissions are based around an electronic handshake which administrators setup. The exact same thing happens when you go on a wireless network, your computer asks for an IP and the router gives you one, hence granting you permission to access the network. Just because many people don't have the technical knowledge to secure their WiFi does not mean that they are exempt from the responsibility to act as their networks administrator and properly secure the wireless connection!!! Ignorance is not an excuse, neither in the eyes of the law or in life.

Hate to say it but legelly you are right. But morally and eithicly it failed to cover it. Chance are you know the person didnt not intend to be an open access point and doesnt want people on there network. Morally and eithicly it goes to the unlock door. It be the same as going into some house who is unlock and who left there door wide open. By mistake or ingorance but still it not morally right for you go into the house with out permission.

Legelly speaking everything was athozied but even is something authorized doesnt mean it going to eithicaly right. It be like lets say the server admins here forget to lock access to the admin rights and some one just goes to the page and has full admin rights to it and to change stuff. Everythign was authoized with out breaking it. would it be right for them to edit the page to how they see fit. No. Legelly yeah it be fine but morally you know it is wrong.

 

[vv-tim]

Hate to say it but legelly you are right. But morally and eithicly it failed to cover it. Chance are you know the person didnt not intend to be an open access point and doesnt want people on there network. Morally and eithicly it goes to the unlock door. It be the same as going into some house who is unlock and who left there door wide open. By mistake or ingorance but still it not morally right for you go into the house with out permission.

Legelly speaking everything was athozied but even is something authorized doesnt mean it going to eithicaly right. It be like lets say the server admins here forget to lock access to the admin rights and some one just goes to the page and has full admin rights to it and to change stuff. Everythign was authoized with out breaking it. would it be right for them to edit the page to how they see fit. No. Legelly yeah it be fine but morally you know it is wrong.

What's with all this ethics crap? This isn't stealing! 99.99% of the time, it in no way hurts the person who's network you're using (unless you're like... hosting a server or other heavy uploading).

Stealing implies me taking something and the other person LOSING something.

For example, if (for some odd reason) someone had a download cap on their internet access, it would be stealing because you're taking away something from them that they no longer have. Now, seeing as I don't think many providers (if any) lease internet service by the MB, it's not a problem at all.

A very bad analogy would be someone with a river in their backyard complaining because someone stopped by and took a drink from it.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

A very bad analogy would be someone with a river in their backyard complaining because someone stopped by and took a drink from it.

Yes, but technically (and legally) the "drinker(s)" would be trespassing, and the owner would be in his full right to complaint, right...?

 

[JAT]

Stop the beating on ethics! Perhaps some of you do not understand this concept.

Ethics is subjective, different people have different viewpoints. None of them are wrong. Wrong is a word that can describe legal questions/answers, not ethical questions/answers.

And most people would find this unethical. If you don't agree, that is fine. But do NOT claim it is not an ethics issue or that it is not unethical. Because that is your opinion, and not valid for everyone. And EVERYTHING is an ethics issue, by nature of the concept of ethics. Don't be silly.

Personally, I find it unethical. Somewhat. Not a real big deal in the grand scope of things. I don't know if MN law calls it illegal, but I doubt it. I have fooled around with other networks before, and don't have much of an issue in doing so.

Oh, and our MB can see one extra network at my house, my Mini Duo has no idea it is there. The MB reception will be legendary even years from now, I have no doubt.

 

[thebiggoose]

back on topic....i've accessed open networks on a psp from my house....is a macbook's range greater than a psp's....i'd assume so...but assuming is bad

 

[thebiggoose]

....and is theer a way to find the wep encrytion key from the computer the router is wired to....my firend lost his encryption key....it's a d link 802.11g 2.4 ghz router

 

[wilk0076]

....and is theer a way to find the wep encrytion key from the computer the router is wired to....my firend lost his encryption key....it's a d link 802.11g 2.4 ghz router

Yes. Log into the router as Admin and go to the Wireless settings. It will be in there in clear text.


Logging into the router, of course, will require a land-line connection, since he obviously can't get access to it wirelessly at this point.

 

[brbubba]

....and is theer a way to find the wep encrytion key from the computer the router is wired to....my firend lost his encryption key....it's a d link 802.11g 2.4 ghz router

Its called pull an ethernet cable out of the closet and connect it to your router then reset the WEP key. Or do a hard reset to the router.

 

[thebiggoose]

where is wireless settings?

 

[xfiftyfour]

where is wireless settings?

in your system preferences >> network. also, you should have a wireless logo in the top right.. next to your volume symbol.. if you click on that, a drop-down menu will appear

 

[thebiggoose]

noooo.... I need to find the wep key from his pc

 

[xfiftyfour]

noooo.... I need to find the wep key from his pc

sorry, my fault. took the post as is, without reading the few behind it, so i didn't realize the on-going talk.

 

[Timepass]

noooo.... I need to find the wep key from his pc

well now getting on the wireless with out his permission as we explain earily is agaist the law. It is no longer an open network. The only way in is having security pass (aka the hex key or know what the passphase is) But cracking it is agaist the law. Even though you can more than likely find the software to do it and get it done in maybe an hour it is still agaist the law since it is will fully hacking into a secure network that clearly they dont want you on.


but seeing as you have persmission it depends on the router. Normally it is under the secuirty section of it. And it tell you what the passphase is. He might have to regenerated teh keys for you but they dont change. Just they are not always displayed. if the router is a linksy router give me a few min and I take a screen shot of mine and post it.

Edit. ok posted a linkysing router shot of the wireless sectoin. I circled some stuf in red.
First in a web browser type in 192.168.1.1
Then it will request a password and user name. Linksy routers dont use a user name so you leave that blank. the password is what ever he sit it as. he he has to reset it the pass word will be admin (hopefully he will know what his password was)
Then go the wireless tab
then to the wireless security tab.
And then you will either use the passphase or hex key 1. most people dont use the other keys.

Btw it will not look exactly like what I have posted. Namely the passphrase will say something else and the hex keys will be in the place of what I wrote. I change that for security reason for posting it here. I rather not have people knowing what my passphrases is or what the hex keys are.

 

[thebiggoose]

thanks I'll defineatly try that in the morning....other question....is the range of a macbook greater than the range of a psp? and how much greater