Macos Server: What's so special about it?

[satcomer]

Home Servers are falling out of service unless you have a very large family with multiple devices. Then to future proof yourself then instead learn Linux Servers! Many business are moving to Linux Servers for simple fact of costs and unlimited client licenses for a flat fee! Lastly Mac OS is a dying breed that will be dropped in the near future, it's a dead end and the writing is on the wall!

Besides modern NAS devices can do what 75% what Home Servers could do just 10 years ago! So go get yourself a smart NAS and go to town with that!

 

[Cineplex]

I think the last time I used MacOS Server was 10.3 or 10.4. All I remember was it was a bit too consumer-ish for my needs.

It's GUI reminded me a lot of Windows Small Business Server, so you could do things without an IT department. If you knew what you were doing, it just got in the way.

And if you changed anything that the GUI tools used...forget about...total nightmare. I used to work with folks that were UNIX nerds and would go nuts upgrading components, making changes...doing all those things they were used to doing. Then none of the GUI tools worked right and the non-unix admins couldn't support the server anymore. I had one guy think he could just customize and change the OpenDirectory/LDAP schema. He would wonder why OD stopped working after a reboot. If you used Mac OS X Server right out of the box and didn't change anything, it worked great. But if you wanted to really mess around with it, the whole thing fell apart. I still liked it, I just knew what it was and what it was not.
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Home Servers are falling out of service unless you have a very large family with multiple devices. Then to future proof yourself then instead learn Linux Servers! Many business are moving to Linus Servers for simple fact of costs and unlimited client licenses for a flat fee! Lastly Mac OS is a dying breed that will be dropped in the near future, it's a dead end and the writing is on the wall!

Besides modern NAS devices can do what 75% what Home Servers could do just 10 years ago! So go get yourself a smart NAS and go to town with that!

Linux is great for small business if you are just using CPANEL (or something similar) to administer it through a hosting provider. But self hosting is not going to be much more cost effective than Windows. Linux is not something the average Joe can work with unless is has a dumbed down interface or is an appliance. Putting a server in your shop running Linux is usually just as, or more expensive, than running Solaris or Windows. Linux support contracts aren't cheap and neither is the staff that goes with it. Most IT people could handle Windows....but Linux or Solaris...that is going to be someone at a higher skill and pay grade. The Linux is cheaper argument had been going on since the 90's, and it still hasn't proven to be true in a real professional enterprise environment. It is cheaper if you don't buy support....but no business is going to do that. Mac OS X Server was cheap to install in it's day, the support contract wasn't needed as they had per incident support options. The last time I ran a mixed environment OS X Server was the most reliable and cheapest to maintain. The Xserves were also cheaper to purchase than other companies. Our Linux systems were the hardest to maintain with the most expensive service contract. Solaris/Sun was just as complicated but support was cheaper and the OS more mature. I had far less issues with the Solaris boxes than the Linux boxes. But I would take OS X all day long. Too bad Apple doesn't care.

 

[BeautifulWoman_1984]

Did Apple ever mention why they stopped making the XServe machines?

 

[Cineplex]

Did Apple ever mention why they stopped making the XServe machines?

Yes. 11/05/10
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Yes. 11/05/10

Did Apple ever mention why they stopped making the XServe machines?

Sorry read the post wrong. No, they never did.

 

[BeautifulWoman_1984]

Besides modern NAS devices can do what 75% what Home Servers could do just 10 years ago! So go get yourself a smart NAS and go to town with that!

Isn't this because NAS devices are basically low-end PC's that run Linux?

 

[satcomer]

Isn't this because NAS devices are basically low-end PC's that run Linux?

Most do just that! That is why it is smart for people to learn Linux Server because small businesses are turning to Linux to save money!

 

[smirking]

That logic could be applied to Shake, DVD Studio Pro, Aperture...

Sigh, Aperture. That was one hell of an awesome photography cataloging and editing program. Most people have moved off of it by now. I'm just now in the process of doing so and it took me a month of experimenting with about a dozen other programs to find one that could replace it. Actually, I had to settle for TWO programs to replace it and the cost of the two programs together is nearly $500 plus all of the hours I lost rejecting the many programs I couldn't stand. Ouch.

 

[bingeciren]

I see that some people are comparing macOS server with NAS. A server is not just a file sharing station. File sharing is just one of the many features of a server and perhaps it is the most basic one. If one needs just a simple file sharing solution, then obviously a server is an overkill. But even then, a server based file share can have user based file access privileges which is a little beyond a simple NAS.

Here is a full list of the macOS services.

 

[Cineplex]

I see that some people are comparing macOS server with NAS. A server is not just a file sharing station. File sharing is just one of the many features of a server and perhaps it is the most basic one. If one needs just a simple file sharing solution, then obviously a server is an overkill. But even then, a server based file share can have user based file access privileges which is a little beyond a simple NAS.

Here is a full list of the macOS services.

View attachment 677513

FTP is an "advanced" service now??? LOL Okay!

 

[AlanShutko]

NAS devices now offer a lot of the same services as standalone servers. A Synology NAS can do calendars, contacts, mail, time machine, VPN, web hosting, DHCP, DNS, file hosting (including FTP). Depending on what you need, the NAS may cover everything. A NAS can offer file-based access as well.

Right now for my uses, the only things I really need macOS Server for are Xcode Server and Caching. Profile Manager is another that some people might need.

 

[belvdr]

I see that some people are comparing macOS server with NAS.

And rightly so, as modern day NAS appliances, can do most of the stuff listed.

But even then, a server based file share can have user based file access privileges which is a little beyond a simple NAS.

At least some models of NAS appliances can do this as well. I haven't seen one yet that doesn't, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

[bingeciren]

And rightly so, as modern day NAS appliances, can do most of the stuff listed.

So it seems that way. It is interesting to see that the modern NAS devices have come a long way from being a simple HDD attached to a LAN.

 

[kiwipeso1]

That logic could be applied to Shake, DVD Studio Pro, Aperture, WebObjects, CinemaTools, Color, SoundTrack Pro, Final Cut Server, LiveType, iWeb, & iDVD. The pro video people know exactly why your logic is flawed. If Apple wants to abandoned a successful product, they will. Shake had all the market share and was the cheapest tool around....didn't stop Apple from killing it off. OS X Server is the same. It's day will come...sooner rather than later.



Sorry, but it is the case. Brilliance does not guarantee anything....and based on my experience with it over the last 16 years...brilliance would be the last word I'd use to describe it. The older version were great products, but they had their issues. The current incarnation of it is just toy like in my opinion.

If you can't see the writing on the wall I can't help you. They don't make servers anymore...that is clue number one. The second clue is they don't have anything about it on apple.com...not a peep. The third is they are not marketing it to business or enterprise anymore. If you call them about it, they will direct you to other solutions. Fourth...Apple is not actively participating in any of the related open source programs. And the final reason, Apple charges next to nothing for it. It isn't even a full OS, just an add-on package. They keep it around for it's very limited use cases. The hammer will drop sooner or later. It just doesn't make sense for Apple to continue developing a product from a strategy long long abandoned. No server, no reason for Mac OS X Server. You would never run this product in a serious server environment because there is NOTHING to run it on. If you think a Mac Mini or an iMac is a server, you would be really misguided. This is also not a home product, though it looks like that is it's only customer today. Your logic about it taking little effort to support is incorrect. Keeping all the different server components up to date is not easy. A lot of work goes into to integrating the next version of a service and making sure the layer of Apple automation on top works correctly. This is not just one guy at Apple, this is a team of people working on this. There is an expense to this, an expense that Apple is probably having a hard time justifying. The only thing keeping this alive is the iOS deployment and Xcode stuff. There are probably a few schools out there with aging Xserves or minis that still use it and require support. There will be a solution from them that will take this product off the market. Most of it's management functions could be put into a single app for schools removing the need for Server. Xcode could have the iOS stuff built into it instead of relying on Server. Remote Desktop could do more.

It is just not going to be around for very much longer.

Pro video people such as myself, who was the technician in charge of the first internet video concert broadcast in 1993 ?
Sorry, but you sound like a self-assured maths PhD holder who I had to coach through my speciality topic only to realise that he really wasn't ready for anything challenging, and was not capable of contributing to my research.

Frankly your assessment of the matter is as risible as your grammar.

 

[bingeciren]

Pro video people such as myself, who was the technician in charge of the first internet video concert broadcast in 1993 ?

What was the bandwidth of the internet video broadcast in 1993? Even if you had a fast upload speed, I'd doubt that the audience was that lucky or that many. I remember struggling with dial-up modems in those days.

 

[Cineplex]

Pro video people such as myself, who was the technician in charge of the first internet video concert broadcast in 1993 ?
Sorry, but you sound like a self-assured maths PhD holder who I had to coach through my speciality topic only to realise that he really wasn't ready for anything challenging, and was not capable of contributing to my research.

Frankly your assessment of the matter is as risible as your grammar.

LOL! You have convinced me with your enlightened insults and insecurities. You are right, I am like the PhD.....he was a highly educated individual trying to understand the rubbish you were spewing. Thank you for the compliment. It was very helpful that you provided your resume of running a BNC cable for the real professionals in 1993. Good job! Give yourself a hug.

 

[campyguy]

What was the bandwidth of the internet video broadcast in 1993? Even if you had a fast upload speed, I'd doubt that the audience was that lucky or that many. I remember struggling with dial-up modems in those days.

Got out of college that year. Dialup at home, my housemate managed to bond two connections so it was manageable - not enough for video but suitable to tying into the school's network to gain access to our class files and for his gaming activities. But it was pretty zippy at my university campus, where the IT guys in the engineering building spent their days and nights accumulating stockpiles of porn...

On a contributory note, having watched this thread for a bit as a lurker, a post on InfoWorld about 18 months ago got me looking at the Server app for my SMB and home uses - http://www.infoworld.com/article/2918424/macs/the-truth-about-macs-in-the-enterprise.html - specifically, the Management Tools section about halfway down and the Profile Manager series on MacWorld's web portal and newer articles regarding the El Capitan and Sierra Server app that have been downright helpful to me - http://www.macworld.com/category/servers/ - and I've repurposed a couple of 2012 rMBPs (they already have battery backups!) to take over some of the file sharing duties, and the app has been rock solid, with none of my engineering staff making snide remarks about Macs any more (but it also could have been my snarky reply that included something about pay cuts...).

I'm going to be starting up a new venture early next year and I'm planning on dialing in a couple of my 2012 Mini Servers with the Server app to handle some of my new company's backend. Happy Holidays!

 

[bingeciren]

Got out of college that year. Dialup at home, my housemate managed to bond two connections so it was manageable - not enough for video but suitable to tying into the school's network to gain access to our class files and for his gaming activities. But it was pretty zippy at my university campus, where the IT guys in the engineering building spent their days and nights accumulating stockpiles of porn...

On a contributory note, having watched this thread for a bit as a lurker, a post on InfoWorld about 18 months ago got me looking at the Server app for my SMB and home uses - http://www.infoworld.com/article/2918424/macs/the-truth-about-macs-in-the-enterprise.html - specifically, the Management Tools section about halfway down and the Profile Manager series on MacWorld's web portal and newer articles regarding the El Capitan and Sierra Server app that have been downright helpful to me - http://www.macworld.com/category/servers/ - and I've repurposed a couple of 2012 rMBPs (they already have battery backups!) to take over some of the file sharing duties, and the app has been rock solid, with none of my engineering staff making snide remarks about Macs any more (but it also could have been my snarky reply that included something about pay cuts...).

I'm going to be starting up a new venture early next year and I'm planning on dialing in a couple of my 2012 Mini Servers with the Server app to handle some of my new company's backend. Happy Holidays!

I enjoyed reading your post.

For those who say macOS server and Mac Mini are toys and not for serious for server applications, check this site:

https://macminicolo.net

 

[belvdr]

I enjoyed reading your post.

For those who say macOS server and Mac Mini are toys and not for serious for server applications, check this site:

https://macminicolo.net

Colocation of a physical system does not mean it's ready for serious server applications. The Mini does not measure up to even the basics of a server meant for serious use.

 

[bingeciren]

Colocation of a physical system does not mean it's ready for serious server applications. The Mini does not measure up to even the basics of a server meant for serious use.

Perhaps, but do you think those Mini Servers are not being used seriously?

 

[belvdr]

Perhaps, but do you think those Mini Servers are not being used seriously?

Define "seriously."

 

[bingeciren]

Define "seriously."

All the things they describe on the first page of the MacMiniColo site.

 

[Cineplex]

Perhaps, but do you think those Mini Servers are not being used seriously?

Well these folks are using it seriously until the power supply fails (only 1), the hard drive dies (most have only 1), & the NIC card fails (only 1).

So let's see....no redundant power, no redundant data (for most), and no redundant network. There is no service parts kit on hand, no CD-ROM to access for quick rebuild or diagnostics, no serial port to access hardware controllers remotely or install the OS without a display, and no second network connection to verify the server is still there if it goes down. That is not a real server. The Xserve, yes...this thing....no. Cheap, or crazy Mac people, and non-mission critical people use them. For a small site you don't care about it's fine. If your income relies on that one mini on the shelf....you would be an idiot. And this is coming from someone that had several that I managed in a datacenter along with real servers. They were so painful to deal with. Despite the advertising, Mac OS X Server doesn't "just work".

 

[belvdr]

All the things they describe on the first page of the MacMiniColo site.

What does the first page of their site have anything to do with a customer's use of a Mac Mini?

It seems they are in a nice data center, but the Mini is still a poor choice for any serious server work. It has too many single points of failure, no ECC memory, and no out of band management.

 

[Cineplex]

What does the first page of their site have anything to do with a customer's use of a Mac Mini?

It seems they are in a nice data center, but the Mini is still a poor choice for any serious server work.

I think this is the list he was talking about.

Macminicolo presents: 50 ways to use your server:


OS X Server is the do-all Mail, web, wiki, etc from Apple.


Jenkins or TeamCity will let you build your apps on a remote CI Server. See how the developers of Day One use their Mac mini as a build server. (Free)


Selfoss (free) and Fever ($30) are great alternatives to Google Reader.


Sendy is a self hosted service to email your newsletters at a significant discount. Similar to Mail Chimp. ($59)


Yourls is a self hosted URL shortener. It provides stats as well. (free)


ZPanel is an alternative to CPanel. (Free)


GitLab is a self hosted Git management software. (Free)


SparkleShare lets you set a folder on your server that will sync with all your peers or coworkers. A great way to collaborate on folders. (Free)


Pow lets you create a quick environment to build and test Rails apps. (Free)


Moodle is a CMS for education. Free


Daylite Server lets you sync your Daylite info from anywhere. (Server, Free. Client, $280) We also have a Daylite Hosting service.


VirtualHostX lets you setup multiple websites quickly. ($39)


iVPN makes it very easy to setup a VPN server. ($15) We also have a tutorial to setup a VPN in Mountain Lion Server.


Crashplan lets you backup remote Macs to your Server. (Free)


Owncloud is a replacement for Dropbox, but also provides calendar, contacts and so much more. We also have a post for installing ownCloud on a Mac mini. (Free)


Plex Server lets you play all your media to your phone/tablet/Macs. (Free)


FileMaker Server is a powerful database server. Very Powerful. Run it for yourself or as a paid service for others.


Kerio Connect is a powerful Mail server. A very good alternative to Exchange.


Run a Minecraft Server of your own.


Vagrant will help you create development environments quickly.


Real Studio will help you build a web app on your server.


uTorrent is a great torrent client. Also has a web remote.


Billings Pro Server lets you sync and track time from anywhere.


Profile Manager 2 will let you manage iPads and iPhones.


Put Xcode on your server and develop from anywhere.


MAMP will help you setup a wordpress blog quickly with PHP and mySQL.


Scrup is a self hosted alternative to Droplr or CloudApp


DNS Enabler lets you run your own DNS serve.


Kikuchat is a self hosted Campfire alternative. Server.app also has a Messages Server.


Mint is a self hosted analytics program to keep an eye on your site traffic.


Shaarli is a self hosted book mark manager similar to Delicious.


BBpress is clean forum software from the makers of wordpress. (Free)


Simon is an application that will check all sorts of servers and services. Similar to Pingdom.


iStat Server will let you keep an eye on your Mac server.


Deep Freeze will let you really hack on your machine, and bring it back clean with a restart.


Asterisk is an open source VOIP server. (free)


TFTP Server still comes in handy after all these years. (Free)


Nagios will keep an eye on your infastructure.


VMware ESXi (free) will let you install and run multiple instances of OS X on the same server. Parallels Server for Mac is another great option.


SugarCRM offers a free, self hosted version. It's a CRM for keeping track of clients, sales, support requests, etc.


Rapidweaver makes web site creation really simple, and works with the default web sharing in OS X.


Slogger will take your data from social networks and create entries in Day One.


Subversion is an open source version control system.


Lasso Server brings Lasso to the web.


Pancake is a seller self hosted app for invoicing and billing clients.


GridRepublic or Warrior will let you put your extra server power to good use. (Thanks Eric)


Thinkup will let you help you make all of your social networking more useful.


If you have something we should add to the list, I hope you'll let us know @macminicolo on twitter.

 

[belvdr]

I think this is the list he was talking about.

I can't see anything on that list that wouldn't run on the most basic of VMs, even in AWS or Azure.

I can't believe they list a torrent client on there.