Marco Arment on the The Talk show, about the Mac Pro.

[Bubba Satori]

Arment has been hating on Apple for awhile.

He's written several click-baity articles on his blog criticising them for the quality of their software, and how they might be doomed because of their stance on privacy yada yada yada.

From my perspective, the current MP may be a little behind current processors and graphics cards, but it's still a supremely powerful machine that will serve the needs of more than 99% of computer users.

Lets see what we have here.
Sentence one...shooting the messenger.
Sentence two...classic ad hominem. You already shot the messenger. Why rub salt in his wounds?
Sentence three...that's hilarious.
'a little behind'? You're kidding, right?
Can you point to the poll that shows that the trash can serves the needs of 99% of computer users?
If you're going to make stuff up at least try to make it slightly believable.

 

[CWallace]

The last two Xeon families each used different sockets, so I can understand Apple not bothering with them as they would require a new systemboard and I am not sure the CPUs themselves provided enough of a performance / specification boost to justify that. I understand the Skylake Xeons will provide some real benefits, so that could / would be worth the switch.

GPUs, on the other hand, have improved (even if the process hasn't). And the GPU modules in the nMP can be swapped. I can see Apple assuming third-parties would offer new cards (as they have done with the cMP), but they should have had their own option (even if ridiculously overpriced), especially when no third-party option made itself apparent.

 

[filmak]

And the GPU modules in the nMP can be swapped. I can see Apple assuming third-parties would offer new cards (as they have done with the cMP), but they should have had their own option (even if ridiculously overpriced), especially when no third-party option made itself apparent.

I'm sorry, but how can someone just swap the cards or a third party offer an upgrade, when the Gpu's EFI is built into the system's one, not in the GPus, and the one card has a proprietary ssd slot?

 

[goMac]

I'm sorry, but how can someone just swap the cards or a third party offer an upgrade, when the Gpu's EFI is built into the system's one, not in the GPus, and the one card has a proprietary ssd slot?

Because you could add the EFI onto the card. The Mac Pro 1,1 came with the BIOS ROM for the GPU in firmware, but you could still put in a new card with a new ROM.

 

[CWallace]

I'm sorry, but how can someone just swap the cards or a third party offer an upgrade, when the Gpu's EFI is built into the system's one, not in the GPus, and the one card has a proprietary ssd slot?

Well that answers the question why Apple hasn't updated the Mac Pro in close to a 1000 days. New CPUs were not worth it and they can't update the GPUs without updating the entire machine.

So they're waiting until Skylake and Polaris ship - a CPU and GPU update that is worth re-doing the internals for.

 

[filmak]

Well that answers the question why Apple hasn't updated the Mac Pro in close to a 1000 days. New CPUs were not worth it and they can't update the GPUs without updating the entire machine.

So they're waiting until Skylake and Polaris ship - a CPU and GPU update that is worth re-doing the internals for.

I also think, or better, hope so.

 

[pat500000]

Meanwhile at the Apple office....
Tim: look at these guys at MR site. They think we gonna bring them a new Mac Pro...sure why not. We will make another Mac Pro in the size of a coffee cup......Hey Jon, lets give them what they want...Hahahhaa

Jon: psshhh okay... Nice small coffee size. (He takes all the internal parts out and slims the current Mac Pro. No need for tb or usb 3.0. Well maybe use 2.0 can do.

Phil: okay, I'm gonna prepare my speech of how it's the next best thing for a decade.

Meanwhile back at MR site....

 

[filmak]

Because you could add the EFI onto the card. The Mac Pro 1,1 came with the BIOS ROM for the GPU in firmware, but you could still put in a new card with a new ROM.

I really don't know if there is a similarity with the old 1,1.
Anyway noone can really check about it as there are no third party cards with the exact dimensions, connectors etc, and this is because it is not a simple decision for a third party company to produce so proprietary cards, also in not so large quantity, which by the way cannot be treated the same way, as the PCIe ones, to replace/upgrade. Also for most users, the 6,1 has to be taken to a service center for this upgrade as they 're also glued to the thermal core.

A not so easy case in general, proudly made by choices.

 

[BB8]

I think that the emergence of Thunderbolt 3 external GPU enclosures has a very real possibility to change this discussion significantly. It will remain to be seen if Apple chooses to add support for this when they finally drop Macs with Thunderbolt 3. Imagine if you could officially hook up a GTX 1080 to your MBP, or Mac Mini?

Great, now we can finally hook up overpriced GPU enclosures to our overpriced workstations.

 

[rGiskard]

Well that answers the question why Apple hasn't updated the Mac Pro in close to a 1000 days. New CPUs were not worth it and they can't update the GPUs without updating the entire machine.

So they're waiting until Skylake and Polaris ship - a CPU and GPU update that is worth re-doing the internals for.

Not exactly. Apple could update the GPUs on the Tube every 6 months if they wanted. The problem is on the user side: the GPU boards are not servicable by the average user. Even if Apple boxed up new GPU boards into pretty white boxes and sold them off the shelf at Apple Stores, there is no chance in hell they would let users install them. It is a hundred times more likely that if you check an Apple Store tomorrow you will find i7 xMacs for sale stuffed full of GTX 1080 video cards.

First, replacement of the boards requires a complete teardown. The whole freakin' Tube must come apart.

Second, it's not as if each GPU board has it's own little heatsink to keep it cool, all of the processors in the Tube share one big honkin' heatsink. So to replace the GPUs, there is not only the teardown but also cleanup of the old thermal paste, then reapplication of new paste and proper assembly of the GPU against the heatsink.

Ask users to do this and there will be ESD damage, farked cables and connectors, buggered thermal grease application, and completely FUBARed CPU sockets. "But they don't need to remove the CPU from the socket" you say? Ask them to replace the GPUs and I guarantee you that some portion of user attempts will result in removal of everything but the GPUs.

I describe this in detail because at the time of the Tube's launch Apple fanbois descended on this forum like a horde of locusts to plague us with talking points, the most obnoxious being that "the GPUs really are upgradable!" They argued that Apple would provide upgrade GPUs after a year or so. I thought they might be bots until I realized the monumental challenge of programming such breathtaking stupidity into a bot.
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has to be taken to a service center for this upgrade as they 're also glued to the thermal core.

Just screwed, I've had a few Tubes open and Apple doesn't glue that model together. Not yet, at least.

 

[pat500000]

Not exactly. Apple could update the GPUs on the Tube every 6 months if they wanted. The problem is on the user side: the GPU boards are not servicable by the average user. Even if Apple boxed up new GPU boards into pretty white boxes and sold them off the shelf at Apple Stores, there is no chance in hell they would let users install them. It is a hundred times more likely that if you check an Apple Store tomorrow you will find i7 xMacs for sale stuffed full of GTX 1080 video cards.

First, replacement of the boards requires a complete teardown. The whole freakin' Tube must come apart.

Second, it's not as if each GPU board has it's own little heatsink to keep it cool, all of the processors in the Tube share one big honkin' heatsink. So to replace the GPUs, there is not only the teardown but also cleanup of the old thermal paste, then reapplication of new paste and proper assembly of the GPU against the heatsink.

Ask users to do this and there will be ESD damage, farked cables and connectors, buggered thermal grease application, and completely FUBARed CPU sockets. "But they don't need to remove the CPU from the socket" you say? Ask them to replace the GPUs and I guarantee you that some portion of user attempts will result in removal of everything but the GPUs.

I describe this in detail because at the time of the Tube's launch Apple fanbois descended on this forum like a horde of locusts to plague us with talking points, the most obnoxious being that "the GPUs really are upgradable!" They argued that Apple would provide upgrade GPUs after a year or so. I thought they might be bots until I realized the monumental challenge of programming such breathtaking stupidity into a bot.
[doublepost=1467337300][/doublepost]

Just screwed, I've had a few Tubes open and Apple doesn't glue that model together. Not yet, at least.

The reason why these fans thought gpu was upgradeable was because someone must have sprayed RAID bug spray at their eyes causing them to see things unclearly.

 

[CWallace]

Not exactly. Apple could update the GPUs on the Tube every 6 months if they wanted. The problem is on the user side: the GPU boards are not servicable by the average user. Even if Apple boxed up new GPU boards into pretty white boxes and sold them off the shelf at Apple Stores, there is no chance in hell they would let users install them.

Well having a Genius do it in-store would help justify the cost Apple would charge for such a board.

Seriously, my thanks to you and filmak for the explanations. I didn't pay much attention to the Mac Pro beyond the keynote as I am not a customer for that model.

 

[filmak]

Just screwed, I've had a few Tubes open and Apple doesn't glue that model together.

Yes, I know, I was just quickly referring to the thermal paste, but I said "glued" simply to avoid writing extensively about, I was short of time, but you filled the gap with your kind analysis. Thanks.

Not yet, at least.

Yes, not yet, but as it seems in Apple's case, glue is the future.
[doublepost=1467364881][/doublepost]

Well having a Genius do it in-store would help justify the cost Apple would charge for such a board.

Seriously, my thanks to you and filmak for the explanations. I didn't pay much attention to the Mac Pro beyond the keynote as I am not a customer for that model.

You 're welcome, tomorrow probably you will receive our thanks for a similar reason...

 

[JimGoshorn]

So they're waiting until Skylake and Polaris ship - a CPU and GPU update that is worth re-doing the internals for.

Last I read, Skylake EP is supposed to be available the beginning of next year (if Intel is on time) which means they'll probably be a delay due to pent-up demand so maybe we'll see a new MacPro in about a year (or more).

I can see it now, Phil walks on stage with an attractive assistant. The old tube is sitting on a table and Phil places a black cloth over it and starts his spiel about the new tube's greatness. As he's doing that, the assistant gracefully moves around the table tossing pixie dust in the air. She stops next to the table and Phil waves his official Jony Ive designer wand over the tube and taps it twice and as he lifts the cloth, they que the Who's "Won't Get Fooled Again" and the crowd stands with thunderous applause as the final lyrics play "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss" and as the final notes fade, Phil says, "Can't innovate again, my ass"