Matching the MacBook Pro

[0989382]

Do any Windows laptops exist with 500 nits of brightness, great speakers and rock solid build quality like the MacBook Pro? Seems to me you can find Windows laptops with each feature, but none with all. Once you're used to the MBP it's really hard to imagine going back in these small areas.

 

[c0ppo]

X1 Extreme.
Don't own that device, but judging by reviews, 4K HDR screen is excellent, speakers are good, but I doubt they are MBP good. Build quality is way above MBP, and keyboard is probably the best keyboard on any laptop. Port selection is also excellent.

 

[SDColorado]

Unfortunately coming from a self professed Apple fan, the durability and dependability that Apple was once known for has been in decline in recent years.

Staingate (still ongoing in 2018), 3 generations of butterfly keyboards being reported and other failures over the years shows that best case scenario is that the are on par with the competition if not behind.

These aren’t the Apple products of the past that you could be sure would “just work.”

 

[0989382]

X1 Extreme.
Don't own that device, but judging by reviews, 4K HDR screen is excellent, speakers are good, but I doubt they are MBP good. Build quality is way above MBP, and keyboard is probably the best keyboard on any laptop. Port selection is also excellent.

It only has a 300nit screen and I wouldn't imagine it's as solid as the MacBook Pro. It can crack etc. Though I hear good things about ThinkPads I heard it's just a brand now since Lenovo took over. Nice avatar! Up the maidens!!!

Unfortunately coming from a self professed Apple fan, the durability and dependability that Apple was once known for has been in decline in recent years.

Staingate (still ongoing in 2018), 3 generations of butterfly keyboards being reported and other failures over the years shows that best case scenario is that the are on par with the competition if not behind.

These aren’t the Apple products of the past that you could be sure would “just work.”

Not sure if Louis Rossman is really an impartial source. I must admit the gen 2 Butterfly keyboard is fantastic and hasn't missed a beat, I can type at 106+ wpm and it's one of the few keyboards that enables me to do it consistently. Just a tad noisy

 

[SDColorado]

Not sure if Louis Rossman is really an impartial source. I must admit the gen 2 Butterfly keyboard is fantastic and hasn't missed a beat, I can type at 106+ wpm and it's one of the few keyboards that enables me to do it consistently. Just a tad noisy

I used to think Rossman was an Apple hating tosser, but having experienced many of the same issues with Apple lately including the frustration I went through with the 2018 and some of the other reports regarding some of the Apple store policies, I am beginning to come around to accepting that he isn’t nearly as partial as I had at first thought him to be. For example Rossman isn’t responsible for a 103 page thread on T2/bridge related kernel panics or for keyboards repeating characters or failing to register key presses at all or for display coatings prematurely wearing.

Everyone has their own biases and partiality of course. I am still a big Apple fan and love their products in general. I just wish I had the confidence in the new MBP that I used to have with past models.

 

[c0ppo]

It only has a 300nit screen and I wouldn't imagine it's as solid as the MacBook Pro. It can crack etc. Though I hear good things about ThinkPads I heard it's just a brand now since Lenovo took over. Nice avatar! Up the maidens!!!

That's for FHD model. 4K model is a different beast, and I'm talking about 4K model.
UP THE IRONS!

 

[0989382]

Just checked, still only 400nits

That's for FHD model. 4K model is a different beast, and I'm talking about 4K model.
UP THE IRONS!

t che

 

[hajime]

X1 Extreme.
Don't own that device, but judging by reviews, 4K HDR screen is excellent, speakers are good, but I doubt they are MBP good. Build quality is way above MBP, and keyboard is probably the best keyboard on any laptop. Port selection is also excellent.

Yes, perfect laptop if you don’t mind the noisy fans that kick in even at 1% load.
[doublepost=1542248050][/doublepost]After I tried the X1E, I don’t see any point to go back to the MBP unless there are new innovations. I just need to find a quiet Windows laptop.

 

[maflynn]

I used to think Rossman was an Apple hating tosser,

He is, but he does raise some good points, I think for me, he can twist some borderline issues, and say they're major issues. all in all, he was getting the most attention (and clicks) on his YT sight when he lambasted apple. So that just fed his anti-apple YTs. Like I said, he raises some good points, but I find him so one sided that I just avoid his channel.

Do any Windows laptops exist with 500 nits of brightness,

Not for nothing, but Apple does have one of the best displays on the market. Finding a display just as bright will be difficult, and even if you do, there may be other aspects of the machine that will detract for you. For instance in the MBP, it has a great display, but the keyboard is horrible.

If I had to do it all over again, I'd opt for the Lenovo X1E, Dell XPS, or the Razerblade 15" (I owned this one for a while it was a good laptop). I don't believe you should look at a one component and make a decision because the quality and interaction of the other components could be poor and you'll not have a good overall laptop.

 

[SDColorado]

He is, but he does raise some good points, I think for me, he can twist some borderline issues, and say they're major issues. all in all, he was getting the most attention (and clicks) on his YT sight when he lambasted apple. So that just fed his anti-apple YTs. Like I said, he raises some good points, but I find him so one sided that I just avoid his channel.

One area where I have really come around to Louis, Linus and some others is on the right to repair legislation. The Verge report on the T2 chip and how it further locks down Apple machines from 3rd party repair, while hardly news, is a bit of a disturbing trend with Apple these days.

Particularly so when you see videos such as that CBC piece or similar Rossman one involving a High School student, where the Apple Store "Genious" has misled the customer as far as what is wrong with the machine and what it would cost to remedy it. Recommending replacement where a relatively inexpensive repair would have done the job. Suggesting that the cost of repair outweighs the cost of a new machine when that was not the case.

Are these incidences isolated? I am sure they are. At least I sincerely hope they are. But with the decreasing ability to open the machine yourself or take it to a 3rd party, who outside Apple will ever know for sure.

 

[maflynn]

Linus and some others is on the right to repair legislation

No question, he does have some good points, in that topic and other topics, but he beats the anti-apple drum so much its hard to take him serious, at least that's my take.

he Verge report on the T2 chip and how it further locks down Apple machines

Agreed, and that was my very thought, not just for repairs but in general. The computer is now more locked down and I wouldn't be surprised to see apple continue that and prevent any apps that are not in the app store to be installed.

 

[hajime]

He is, but he does raise some good points, I think for me, he can twist some borderline issues, and say they're major issues. all in all, he was getting the most attention (and clicks) on his YT sight when he lambasted apple. So that just fed his anti-apple YTs. Like I said, he raises some good points, but I find him so one sided that I just avoid his channel.


Not for nothing, but Apple does have one of the best displays on the market. Finding a display just as bright will be difficult, and even if you do, there may be other aspects of the machine that will detract for you. For instance in the MBP, it has a great display, but the keyboard is horrible.

If I had to do it all over again, I'd opt for the Lenovo X1E, Dell XPS, or the Razerblade 15" (I owned this one for a while it was a good laptop). I don't believe you should look at a one component and make a decision because the quality and interaction of the other components could be poor and you'll not have a good overall laptop.

Do users really turn to max brightness? Usually I turn to 50-70% brightness. For X1E, even half the brightness is sufficiently good enough for me.

 

[maflynn]

Do users really turn to max brightness?

I can only speak for myself, but I keep my brightness down, partly for battery, and partly to avoid burning out my eye balls.

 

[SDColorado]

Agreed, and that was my very thought, not just for repairs but in general. The computer is now more locked down and I wouldn't be surprised to see apple continue that and prevent any apps that are not in the app store to be installed.

That is a scary thought, but not one that would surprise me either if Apple decides to continue down the path of making MacOS more IOS-like in the future. All just a part of those "services" that make up the majority of the Apple profit these days I suppose.

Do users really turn to max brightness? Usually I turn to 50-70% brightness. For X1E, even half the brightness is sufficiently good enough for me.

That is a good question and I think above a certain point, the whole nits of brightness becomes a bit overblown. Yeah, you can tell the difference between 300 and 500, but the difference between 400-500 is harder to tell and even more so when you're looking at a screen that is 450 nits vs 500 nits.

I had an X1E 4K rated at 400 nits and a 2018 MBP rated at 500 nits side by side for 14 days and I was hard pressed to notice the difference, even at max brightness where they were each plenty bright. From my own experience and side by side comparison, I would have to conclude one or more of the following is true...

1) The X1E display is brighter than the advertised 400 nits
2) The Macbook Pro is not as bright as the advertised 400 nits
3) Both 1 and 2 are true
4) There isn't as much of a visual difference between 400 and 500 and manufacturers would like us to believe.
5) There isn't as much of a difference between the true nits output of the X1E and the MPB in real use.

As far as turning it up all the way? I have only done it for outdoor use or when I have had strong sunlight coming through a window directly on the screen. It can in some circumstances help with reflections and direct sunlight glare. Otherwise, both the X1E and MBP could make me squint at full brightness. Granted my eyes are somewhat light sensitive.

 

[bobbie424242]

The HP Zbook Studio 360 has a 4K 600 nits touch display and very nicely built. And unlike macbook you can upgrade it yourself.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

Just checked, still only 400nits

'Only 400 nits?'. Why so focused on 500 nits? As already said in this thread: most users have their brightness settings on lower than 50%. A computer screen with a brightness of >= 300 nits is more than sufficient.​

 

[hajime]

That is a scary thought, but not one that would surprise me either if Apple decides to continue down the path of making MacOS more IOS-like in the future. All just a part of those "services" that make up the majority of the Apple profit these days I suppose.



That is a good question and I think above a certain point, the whole nits of brightness becomes a bit overblown. Yeah, you can tell the difference between 300 and 500, but the difference between 400-500 is harder to tell and even more so when you're looking at a screen that is 450 nits vs 500 nits.

I had an X1E 4K rated at 400 nits and a 2018 MBP rated at 500 nits side by side for 14 days and I was hard pressed to notice the difference, even at max brightness where they were each plenty bright. From my own experience and side by side comparison, I would have to conclude one or more of the following is true...

1) The X1E display is brighter than the advertised 400 nits
2) The Macbook Pro is not as bright as the advertised 400 nits
3) Both 1 and 2 are true
4) There isn't as much of a visual difference between 400 and 500 and manufacturers would like us to believe.
5) There isn't as much of a difference between the true nits output of the X1E and the MPB in real use.

As far as turning it up all the way? I have only done it for outdoor use or when I have had strong sunlight coming through a window directly on the screen. It can in some circumstances help with reflections and direct sunlight glare. Otherwise, both the X1E and MBP could make me squint at full brightness. Granted my eyes are somewhat light sensitive.

If I get a X1 Yoga or C930 to use in tablet mode at bus stations, I may need to turn to max brightness. Otherwise, better to keep brightness down to protect my eyes.

It was very unconfortable to see the screen of the X1E and MBP 2018 at max brightness. Even on my MBP 2010 17", I keep it at about 4 levels down.

 

[SDColorado]

If I get a X1 Yoga or C930 to use in tablet mode at bus stations, I may need to turn to max brightness. Otherwise, better to keep brightness down to protect my eyes.

It was very unconfortable to see the screen of the X1E and MBP 2018 at max brightness. Even on my MBP 2010 17", I keep it at about 4 levels down.

I work from home a lot and when the weather is nice, like to work outside. But 400 nits have been plenty for that, even in direct sun. i think my Surface Pro is 450-ish? But haven't had to max it.

 

[hajime]

I work from home a lot and when the weather is nice, like to work outside. But 400 nits have been plenty for that, even in direct sun. i think my Surface Pro is 450-ish? But haven't had to max it.

How many nits is sufficient for reading under direct sun?

 

[SDColorado]

How many nits is sufficient for reading under direct sun?

I think 400+. As AndyMacAndMic suggests, 300+ is sufficent for most things. For direct sunglight or if you have strong reflections coming in through windows. I think 400+ is beneficial. However, as mentioned in a previous post, I couldn't tell much difference between the X1E and MBP 2018 side by and one the former is allegedly 400 nits and the later 500.

Of course I think there is more to displays than just nits. If the display doesn't have the contrast ratio to support it, I am guessing it just washes out as it gets brighter.

 

[skaertus]

The HP Zbook Studio 360 has a 4K 600 nits touch display and very nicely built. And unlike macbook you can upgrade it yourself.

This one apparently has the brightest display of any laptop.

It is really difficult to find a laptop which matches the MacBook Pro in terms of build quality. There are some which are quite close, if not similar.

The Surface line is great, and these aluminum HPs look good as well. Samsung has a line of great laptops which seem to have good build quality as well.

Apple makes great laptops, but competition is closing the gap. If you plan to run Windows on a MacBook Pro, the great trackpad is not so great, as it does not work well under Windows. A good trackpad on any other laptop will be superior to the one in the MacBook Pro for running Windows.

 

[0989382]

I did see an HP EliteBook with 700 nits advertised. It was around £1,900 but was one hell of a machine. The only thing that threw me off that train of thought was trying to think of software to replace Mac Preview, Autodesk Graphic, iMovie etc. And yes, they must have equally nice interfaces and similar costs! That's where Windows gets expensive and starts to slip up in my view.

The SP6 I was put off due to the processors being a lower wattage, limiting performance I would imagine. Particularly under load when plugged into an external display

 

[skaertus]

I did see an HP EliteBook with 700 nits advertised. It was around £1,900 but was one hell of a machine. The only thing that threw me off that train of thought was trying to think of software to replace Mac Preview, Autodesk Graphic, iMovie etc. And yes, they must have equally nice interfaces and similar costs! That's where Windows gets expensive and starts to slip up in my view.

The SP6 I was put off due to the processors being a lower wattage, limiting performance I would imagine. Particularly under load when plugged into an external display

I do not work with graphic software, and I am no expert. However, the software you mentioned does not appear to be in the high-end pro level, and does not seem to cost a lot of money. There should be Windows replacements for the software you use, at a cost which is not prohibitive (especially compared to the price you are thinking of paying for the HP EliteBook). You may be thinking of more expensive software, but then you got into another realm.

What you may try to do is install a 30-day trial of Windows on BootCamp, and trials of software that could replace the ones you currently use, to check whether they would be appropriate for you.

 

[cube]

I don't know about the ergonomics, but you can get more powerful laptops for half the price.

 

[skaertus]

I don't know about the ergonomics, but you can get more powerful laptops for half the price.

Yes, in terms of CPU and GPU you can get much more power for much less.

The MBP still has a very fast SSD drive, which I do not think most other laptops can match.

The screen is brighter and with better colors than most of the laptops out there.

And of course there is the overall design of the laptop, in which Apple put some effort. The cooling system, the trackpad, the keyboard, the materials, all this has a price, and which take into consideration the costs of development and the costs of production.

But if you are looking at raw power, in terms of CPU and GPU, you can get better deals out there.