Matching the MacBook Pro

[cube]

Yes, in terms of CPU and GPU you can get much more power for much less.

The MBP still has a very fast SSD drive, which I do not think most other laptops can match.

The screen is brighter and with better colors than most of the laptops out there.

And of course there is the overall design of the laptop, in which Apple put some effort. The cooling system, the trackpad, the keyboard, the materials, all this has a price, and which take into consideration the costs of development and the costs of production.

But if you are looking at raw power, in terms of CPU and GPU, you can get better deals out there.

You would also get twice the RAM, at half the price. Regarding SSD, it would be half NVMe and half SATA for 4TB. The screen would be IPS.

It does not matter if an NVMe drive is a bit faster. Endurance is more important.

I think you would find quite a few PCs with better keyboards. And there's also a good effort on cooling for the better ones.

MBP prices are insane now.

 

[c0ppo]

This one is gonna be a small off topic, I've picked this thread only because of the title. If anyone finds this in any way bothersome, please forgive me. I had a few drinks to be honest, so f it

It's almost 3AM where I live (Croatia, europe), and I'm just browsing the web. I don't visit sites like these, but I'm bored, so I went to see whats 'new'. Well, 9to5mac, latest titles (copy&paste):

Review: iPhone XR Clear Case – is it worth the premium price? [Video]
Review: iOttie iTap 2 mounts offer seamless and functional magnetic iPhone in-car solutions
Holiday Deal Hub: Exclusive deals for 9to5Mac readers!
9to5Mac Daily: December 7, 2018
Apple Watch user discovers A-fib heart issue with new ECG app, ‘this probably saved you,’ says doctor
Exclusive: First look at unreleased Apple Smart Battery Case for iPhone XS, three models and 2018 release possible
Apple updates WWDC app for 2018 iPad Pros, 3D Touch and widget included
What’s new in watchOS 5.1.2 [Video]
Apple’s sleep tracking company Beddit releases new ‘3.5’ sleep monitor

Name of the site is 9to5mac. Latest headlines are all about some sleep monitor company, apple updating wwdc app with included widgets (!!!), smart battery case, and of course - iPhone cases. Don't get me wrong, nothing against 9to5mac at all. But only mac related news is about a Dirt game coming to mac. And that game is from mid 2017...

Mac Pro? Upgrading long overdue iMacs? Some news about pro apps like FCP or Logic? Possibly news Unity3D support of Metal? Nope?

Again, nothing against 9to5mac. Those guys/girls are just doing their job. And they are putting out 'news' that readers on that site like to read.

But the funny thing is, nothing about macs. Only one news about mac, and it's about a 1 year and 6 months old game! I'm a game developer, and as such, even I can tell you that shouldn't supposed to be news. Even on gaming portals!

Basically, this shows what Apple of today is all about. And this shows what the future of mac pros is like. I'm really surprised I didn't find any watch wristbands on there. It's actually a shame, because I wouldn't be surprised that wristbands bring more money then Mac Pros.

As I said before, I had a few drinks. But I'm a workoholic, and by some idiotic decision I visited that site. It's not their fault, but I'm kinda bumped that I have a feeling I won't use Mac OS again. Unless I want to purchase one Apple computer just for personal use. But paying Apple price for browsing/youtube/music/torrent machine is madness, so that won't happen ever. At least I won't do it.

I just hope good old TC will retire soon, because he won't quit, and no one will force him out of Apple. After that, I hope some engineer gets the CEO job.

But that won't happen either. Well, Unity3D team, please make Unity3D available on Linux. Not alpha version, but with all bells and whistles

/rant

 

[GoldfishRT]

It's hard because in some ways I feel like Apple do in fact make a superior product compared to the rest of the computing market.

I wandered in a Best Buy today - always a way to entice me into poor decisions - and walked out with a 13" MacBook Pro without touch bar today. I figured I should try it given almost all my distaste for the current Apple lineup has been based entirely on first impressions, and it will hold me over for another week or two while I wait for my X1 Carbon to mosey its way over from Shanghai.

And you know what? I really really like it.

In spite of the keyboard, in spite of the lack of ports, in spite of Apple's negligence of MacOS - it really still is one of the best ultrabooks I've used. It's such a complete package. And so here I am thinking the X1 will have to be seriously impressive in order for me to give this thing up. But of course, it also highlights the things that are wrong with this machine because so much of it is really so good. It's maybe not specialized in the ways that enthusiasts would like but, as a general purpose notebook it does impress.

Apple's locking down of repairs, data recovery, and all of that sort is an unfortunate trend. For a company that tries to position itself as one that cares about human issues, it doesn't really seem to jazz with all that.

 

[xraydoc]

This one is gonna be a small off topic, I've picked this thread only because of the title. If anyone finds this in any way bothersome, please forgive me. I had a few drinks to be honest, so f it

It's almost 3AM where I live (Croatia, europe), and I'm just browsing the web. I don't visit sites like these, but I'm bored, so I went to see whats 'new'. Well, 9to5mac, latest titles (copy&paste):

Review: iPhone XR Clear Case – is it worth the premium price? [Video]
Review: iOttie iTap 2 mounts offer seamless and functional magnetic iPhone in-car solutions
Holiday Deal Hub: Exclusive deals for 9to5Mac readers!
9to5Mac Daily: December 7, 2018
Apple Watch user discovers A-fib heart issue with new ECG app, ‘this probably saved you,’ says doctor
Exclusive: First look at unreleased Apple Smart Battery Case for iPhone XS, three models and 2018 release possible
Apple updates WWDC app for 2018 iPad Pros, 3D Touch and widget included
What’s new in watchOS 5.1.2 [Video]
Apple’s sleep tracking company Beddit releases new ‘3.5’ sleep monitor

Name of the site is 9to5mac. Latest headlines are all about some sleep monitor company, apple updating wwdc app with included widgets (!!!), smart battery case, and of course - iPhone cases. Don't get me wrong, nothing against 9to5mac at all. But only mac related news is about a Dirt game coming to mac. And that game is from mid 2017...

Mac Pro? Upgrading long overdue iMacs? Some news about pro apps like FCP or Logic? Possibly news Unity3D support of Metal? Nope?

Again, nothing against 9to5mac. Those guys/girls are just doing their job. And they are putting out 'news' that readers on that site like to read.

But the funny thing is, nothing about macs. Only one news about mac, and it's about a 1 year and 6 months old game! I'm a game developer, and as such, even I can tell you that shouldn't supposed to be news. Even on gaming portals!

Basically, this shows what Apple of today is all about. And this shows what the future of mac pros is like. I'm really surprised I didn't find any watch wristbands on there. It's actually a shame, because I wouldn't be surprised that wristbands bring more money then Mac Pros.

As I said before, I had a few drinks. But I'm a workoholic, and by some idiotic decision I visited that site. It's not their fault, but I'm kinda bumped that I have a feeling I won't use Mac OS again. Unless I want to purchase one Apple computer just for personal use. But paying Apple price for browsing/youtube/music/torrent machine is madness, so that won't happen ever. At least I won't do it.

I just hope good old TC will retire soon, because he won't quit, and no one will force him out of Apple. After that, I hope some engineer gets the CEO job.

But that won't happen either. Well, Unity3D team, please make Unity3D available on Linux. Not alpha version, but with all bells and whistles

/rant

I agree with you - I don't think Apple's been innovating much (seemingly) over the last 2-3 years. Their products have been derivative of stuff from past generations. Nothing really unique, like Microsoft's Surface line for an example. FaceID is good, but hard to build a product line around that as a major feature. New iPads have great build quality, great screens, hugely impressive performance, but I'm not sure those count as innovation. Just more evolution.

Apple definitely has ups and downs, as does every company, with the "wow" factor of their products. Microsoft, as in my example above, went a decade with basically nothing to show for it... even essentially missed out on damn common cellphones. Now they have very unique offerings like the Surface lines. Here's hoping Apple can turn it around.

 

[Cashmonee]

Yes, in terms of CPU and GPU you can get much more power for much less.

The MBP still has a very fast SSD drive, which I do not think most other laptops can match.

The screen is brighter and with better colors than most of the laptops out there.

And of course there is the overall design of the laptop, in which Apple put some effort. The cooling system, the trackpad, the keyboard, the materials, all this has a price, and which take into consideration the costs of development and the costs of production.

But if you are looking at raw power, in terms of CPU and GPU, you can get better deals out there.

I don't know man. A Lenovo X1 Extreme spec'd the same as a 15" MacBook Pro appears to be about $700 less right now. It will have the same CPU, better GPU, fast enough drive with the option for a second, upgradeable and repairable. Pretty tough to justify the MacBook Pro, especially when I disagree with your assessment of build. Apple has a garbage keyboard, the trackpad has gotten to the point of too large, and the cooling leaves a lot to be desired, not to mention the thing is all sealed, glued, and soldered together so that when (not if) your keyboard goes, it is going to cost many hundreds to repair because it is attached to half the computer.

At this point, if I can have a machine that is faster, more reliable, has a good keyboard, and can be upgraded and repaired for $700 less, why on Earth am I buying a Mac? And before you say for macOS, we are in 2018 now where Windows 10 has caught up.

 

[Mythos99]

I don't know man. A Lenovo X1 Extreme spec'd the same as a 15" MacBook Pro appears to be about $700 less right now. It will have the same CPU, better GPU, fast enough drive with the option for a second, upgradeable and repairable. Pretty tough to justify the MacBook Pro, especially when I disagree with your assessment of build. Apple has a garbage keyboard, the trackpad has gotten to the point of too large, and the cooling leaves a lot to be desired, not to mention the thing is all sealed, glued, and soldered together so that when (not if) your keyboard goes, it is going to cost many hundreds to repair because it is attached to half the computer.

At this point, if I can have a machine that is faster, more reliable, has a good keyboard, and can be upgraded and repaired for $700 less, why on Earth am I buying a Mac? And before you say for macOS, we are in 2018 now where Windows 10 has caught up.

Do you have a MBP with a bigger trackpad? I thought so first too, but the trackpad is awesome, it feels weird going back to my 2015 MBPs trackpad after using the bigger one.

And Windows catching up, well, yeah, kinda, it get's the job done, but i still can understand people who prefer MacOS over Win10. I use Win10 at work everyday, and i find it still kinda annoying, and have to say, i prefer Win7 over 10, cause Win10 is still in so many things incomplete imo. They need few more years, and will get there, but for now, i don't really think they caught up.

 

[SDColorado]

Do you have a MBP with a bigger trackpad? I thought so first too, but the trackpad is awesome, it feels weird going back to my 2015 MBPs trackpad after using the bigger one.

And Windows catching up, well, yeah, kinda, it get's the job done, but i still can understand people who prefer MacOS over Win10. I use Win10 at work everyday, and i find it still kinda annoying, and have to say, i prefer Win7 over 10, cause Win10 is still in so many things incomplete imo. They need few more years, and will get there, but for now, i don't really think they caught up.

I can generally tell from the shine/wear area on my MBP trackpads, that I probably don't use 30% of it much if at all. While I appreciate a large trackpad, I don't think there is any practical reason to have made it larger than my iPhone.

 

[Mythos99]

I can generally tell from the shine/wear area on my MBP trackpads, that I probably don't use 30% of it much if at all. While I appreciate a large trackpad, I don't think there is any practical reason to have made it larger than my iPhone.

Well, that is true, i've noticed the same, but still, i don't mind it being that large.

 

[SDColorado]

Well, that is true, i've noticed the same, but still, i don't mind it being that large.

My issue with it is that due to the size, I hit it accidentally while typing and obliterate a large section of text when I did. Yes, I can easily recover the lost text by hitting command+Z, but I find it an annoyance. Especially when it happens several times on one project. I instead always make sure I have "tap to click" disabled. It is a feature that I like and use regularly on my Surface, but I have to keep it off on the Mac. I think the problem would be less if the trackpad was only as large as practical, not super-sized. I wonder if it needs to be that large for the taptic engine?

 

[Mythos99]

My issue with it is that due to the size, I hit it accidentally while typing and obliterate a large section of text when I did. Yes, I can easily recover the lost text by hitting command+Z, but I find it an annoyance. Especially when it happens several times on one project. I instead always make sure I have "tap to click" disabled. It is a feature that I like and use regularly on my Surface, but I have to keep it off on the Mac. I think the problem would be less if the trackpad was only as large as practical, not super-sized. I wonder if it needs to be that large for the taptic engine?

This was my fear at first, but it didn't happen to me yet, to be honest, but i also don't write a lot of text daily, maybe thats why.

My thought is, that they somehow wanted to include the pen on MacOS, but it didn't go as hoped, so they just left it like this for future plans, or for aesthetic reasons maybe?

 

[SDColorado]

This was my fear at first, but it didn't happen to me yet, to be honest, but i also don't write a lot of text daily, maybe thats why.

My thought is, that they somehow wanted to include the pen on MacOS, but it didn't go as hoped, so they just left it like this for future plans, or for aesthetic reasons maybe?

I wondered if they had planned to add a pen or maybe a touchpad similar to the Asus Zenbook. Maybe because of the touch bar wasn't the hit they hoped it would be that axed it?

Or maybe Tim just didn't like the empty space.

 

[Cashmonee]

Do you have a MBP with a bigger trackpad? I thought so first too, but the trackpad is awesome, it feels weird going back to my 2015 MBPs trackpad after using the bigger one.

And Windows catching up, well, yeah, kinda, it get's the job done, but i still can understand people who prefer MacOS over Win10. I use Win10 at work everyday, and i find it still kinda annoying, and have to say, i prefer Win7 over 10, cause Win10 is still in so many things incomplete imo. They need few more years, and will get there, but for now, i don't really think they caught up.

I do. I have a 2017. I do get errant responses from the trackpad on occasion though admittedly the palm rejection is pretty good. Like was said before, there is just no reason for the size. It follows Apple's trend of introducing a feature that no one asked for, few end up using or liking, and then making a tradeoff to keep the feature around. Trackpad, TouchBar, Animoji, removal of ports that are still important to a lot of people especially "pros", new case designs that result in non-replaceable or repairable parts, etc. It is a waste of resources that Apple happily passes on to the user with higher prices while not adding or even diminishing functionality. Perhaps they could focus on updating the Mac lineup once in a while. Or putting out an OS for the iPad that actually makes use of its abilities.

Sorry. Ranting I know. I was really looking forward to a Mac this year and after researching, realize that they may no longer be for me. I, like so many others had/have this weird and foolish attachment to Apple and it is upsetting when you realize what they have become.

 

[Mythos99]

I do. I have a 2017. I do get errant responses from the trackpad on occasion though admittedly the palm rejection is pretty good. Like was said before, there is just no reason for the size. It follows Apple's trend of introducing a feature that no one asked for, few end up using or liking, and then making a tradeoff to keep the feature around. Trackpad, TouchBar, Animoji, removal of ports that are still important to a lot of people especially "pros", new case designs that result in non-replaceable or repairable parts, etc. It is a waste of resources that Apple happily passes on to the user with higher prices while not adding or even diminishing functionality. Perhaps they could focus on updating the Mac lineup once in a while. Or putting out an OS for the iPad that actually makes use of its abilities.

Sorry. Ranting I know. I was really looking forward to a Mac this year and after researching, realize that they may no longer be for me. I, like so many others had/have this weird and foolish attachment to Apple and it is upsetting when you realize what they have become.

No, i get it, don't worry. I myself am really frustrated right now, cause i hate the butterfly-keyboard, and i have no clue what to do now... They will never go back, so all future MPBs will have the same keyboard, so what now? I don't wanna go to Win10, it's not bad, but i don't like how it feels, so inconsistent. Linux? Nah, and i need Laptop...

Nobody can turn me away from Apple then Apple self!