Maxed out Mini now, or Studio in 2025?

[dammerl]

I was just about to order a Mac Mini with 64G RAM, 2TB SSD, maxed out chip. It would cost about 3200€.

This price seemed to be already in the price range of the Studio, so I checked the currently available Studio. And indeed: a Studio with 64G RAM, 2TB SSD, M2 Max with 38-core GPU sells for 3800€.

Of course I will not buy a Studio with an M2 now, the M4 Max will come in 2025. But it looks to me like it would be much better to wait for the M4 Studio than to buy the (comparably priced, but inferior) M4 Mini now, right?

Or is there something wrong with my calculations? Will the M4 Studio be more expensive (relative to the Mini) than the current (M2) Studio prices suggest?

Sorry for these possibly stupid questions. Last time I bought a new Mac was 2019, complete noob with Apple silicon. This will be my first silicon.

 

[throAU]

Do you need a new computer now, or in 2025?

The studio will be quieter (much better cooling) and have an M4 max available in it, maybe an ultra.

Unless you need the machine now, I would very much suggest NOT going far up the spec sheet with a Mac mini, it turns bad value pretty rapidly. If you can wait, for those specs, definitely wait for the studio.

 

[dammerl]

> Do you need a new computer now, or in 2025?

Not need now. Upped the mem of my iMac 2019 to 96G and replaced the disk with a 2TB one recently (at the occasion when my internal SSD died, few weeks ago, and not expecting to see M4 Minis so soon).

> it turns bad value pretty rapidly

Yeah, that was my impression too.

 

[Igantius]

No one can say for sure about future prices.

Ultimately, it comes down to whether you need the computer now and what you need it for.

ArtIsRight has some good comparison videos, including one today comparing the top M4 Pro and the base M4 Max (and was a little surprised by what he found). He’s looking specifically from the point professional photographers and videographers, and generally makes sound points about what you get for the money and whether that’s going to worth it for you.

Value is always going to be subjective and everyone needs to work out that one out for themselves.

 

[dammerl]

> Value is always going to be subjective and everyone needs to work out that one out for themselves.

Yes.

I require this:

- Gaming (things like WoW, BG3): Prio 1
- DTP and Graphics stuff: Prio 2 (would be prio 1, but I think the bottleneck here are bugs in InDesign (rendering large tables!), and not hardware specs)
- Video encoding: prio 3
- Xcode: prio 2

 

[dammerl]

> The studio will be quieter (much better cooling) and have an M4 max available in it, maybe an ultra.
> Unless you need the machine now, I would very much suggest NOT going far up the spec sheet with a Mac mini

Yeah, I think this nails it. Damn, I was so happy to see my first silicon before end of year

 

[magbarn]

Just like when the Mini and the Studio both were using M2 chips, by the time you spec out the m2pro mini it gets much too close to the M2Max studio's price. If you really need all that CPU/GPU power the M2 pro gives you and need to upgrade ram to around 32gb or higher, you might as well wait for the M4max studio as the M4 max is one crazy powerful chip.

 

[dammerl]

> you might as well wait for the M4max

OK, you confirm what I feared to be true

 

[dammerl]

At least then the upping of the Ram to 96GB and the new 2TB disk were not completely useless. (For my Intel iMac, which will apparently be my computer until sometime in 2025.)

 

[dammerl]

Thanks for your input. Your suggestions were helpful, though not in the way I saw them…
Guess I will keep to my trusted iMac for some more months…

 

[tothemoonsands]

I was in your dilemma, and I went for the mini. It’s going to rack up in my server room so nicely when it transitions away from my desk. FWIW, it’s completely silent, so don’t let that be a deciding factor.

I’m impatient, but I also realized that new displays could very well coincide with the new Mac studio, so it will be an easier pill to swallow dual studio displays (or single xdr) without throwing in a Mac Studio. The loaded mini is exceptionally capable.

 

[dammerl]

> FWIW, it’s completely silent, so don’t let that be a deciding factor.

Noticed, and good to know (certain reviews are saying that it is not).

 

[whwang]

If you need more power than what a maxed Mini can offer, then of course wait for the new Studio with M4 Max.

If the power of a maxed Mini is adequate for you, then the questions come down to:
1. Do you need the quietness of Studio (or equivalently, the capability of running intensive tasks continuously for a long while without overheating)?
2. Do you need the better connectivity of Studio?

If answers to both questions are no, or even uncertain, get the Mini and enjoy it now. Remember (one of) the most criticized point of M1 Max and M2 Max? They were the latest ones to be announced in the M1 and M2 series, and they were surpassed (or at least matched) by M2 Pro and M3 Pro fairly quickly. So if you don't need the cooling capability and connectivity of Studio, get a Mini early and be happy. Otherwise soon after you get an M4 Studio, you may see an M5 Mini that's nearly equally powerful. You will feel frustrated.

 

[Return Zero]

> Value is always going to be subjective and everyone needs to work out that one out for themselves.

Yes.

I require this:

- Gaming (things like WoW, BG3): Prio 1
- DTP and Graphics stuff: Prio 2 (would be prio 1, but I think the bottleneck here are bugs in InDesign (rendering large tables!), and not hardware specs)
- Video encoding: prio 3
- Xcode: prio 2

GPU being such a large factor for some of this, absolutely wait for the Studio. There is no debate really.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

I was just about to order a Mac Mini with 64G RAM, 2TB SSD, maxed out chip. It would cost about 3200€.

This price seemed to be already in the price range of the Studio, so I checked the currently available Studio. And indeed: a Studio with 64G RAM, 2TB SSD, M2 Max with 38-core GPU sells for 3800€.

Of course I will not buy a Studio with an M2 now, the M4 Max will come in 2025. But it looks to me like it would be much better to wait for the M4 Studio than to buy the (comparably priced, but inferior) M4 Mini now, right?

Or is there something wrong with my calculations? Will the M4 Studio be more expensive (relative to the Mini) than the current (M2) Studio prices suggest?

Sorry for these possibly stupid questions. Last time I bought a new Mac was 2019, complete noob with Apple silicon. This will be my first silicon.

Your analysis is spot on. If you can somehow wait to see the M4 Studios you absolutely should do so. With Apple skipping an M3 Studio we really cannot forecast what Apple will do with M4 Studios but it makes sense to wait if you can.

Two years ago my existing Mac was rammed-out so I could not wait, and bought an M2 MBP 96 GB even though I wanted a Studio. The MBP is the sweetest Mac of many that I have owned, but I still want a Studio...

 

[Allen_Wentz]

If you need more power than what a maxed Mini can offer, then of course wait for the new Studio with M4 Max.

If the power of a maxed Mini is adequate for you, then the questions come down to:
1. Do you need the quietness of Studio (or equivalently, the capability of running intensive tasks continuously for a long while without overheating)?
2. Do you need the better connectivity of Studio?

If answers to both questions are no, or even uncertain, get the Mini and enjoy it now. Remember (one of) the most criticized point of M1 Max and M2 Max? They were the latest ones to be announced in the M1 and M2 series, and they were surpassed (or at least matched) by M2 Pro and M3 Pro fairly quickly. So if you don't need the cooling capability and connectivity of Studio, get a Mini early and be happy. Otherwise soon after you get an M4 Studio, you may see an M5 Mini that's nearly equally powerful. You will feel frustrated.

No one should "feel frustrated," when M5 is stronger than M4, etc. because of course each new generation will be stronger. Adults just get over it.

 

[Malus120]

Remember (one of) the most criticized point of M1 Max and M2 Max? They were the latest ones to be announced in the M1 and M2 series, and they were surpassed (or at least matched) by M2 Pro and M3 Pro fairly quickly. So if you don't need the cooling capability and connectivity of Studio, get a Mini early and be happy. Otherwise soon after you get an M4 Studio, you may see an M5 Mini that's nearly equally powerful. You will feel frustrated.

What? No.
Neither the M1 Max, nor M2 Max were matched or surpassed by the M2 Pro or M3 Pro on the GPU side (and generally speaking, aside from the outlier M3 gen, if you're buying a Max series chip for the CPU and not the GPU or extra video encode engine you're doing it wrong.)

The M4 Pro is the first Pro series chip to even come close to matching/exceeding the GPU performance of the M1 Max.

I don't disagree with the sentiment that you can't be overly afraid that next years model will offer better performance and perf/$ (it inevitably will) or you'll never buy, but let's be realistic about the YoY gains.

To the OP, I would absolutely advise waiting for the M4 Max for your stated use case. While the M4 Pro is also a fine choice, the upsell on the BTO options quickly kills the value.

 

[throAU]

No one should "feel frustrated," when M5 is stronger than M4, etc. because of course each new generation will be stronger. Adults just get over it.

Yeah, so long as you buy early in the release cycle, at that point you've had 12 months of usage out of the machine - waiting for N+1 model means in the interim you're dealing with an older/slower machine or no machine at all.

 

[magbarn]

> Value is always going to be subjective and everyone needs to work out that one out for themselves.

Yes.

I require this:

- Gaming (things like WoW, BG3): Prio 1
- DTP and Graphics stuff: Prio 2 (would be prio 1, but I think the bottleneck here are bugs in InDesign (rendering large tables!), and not hardware specs)
- Video encoding: prio 3
- Xcode: prio 2

What resolution are you planning on playing at? BG3 brings my M3Max 40 GPU core MBP 16 to its knees if I max out all the settings. The M4Pro, while having better GPU cores, still maxes at out only 20 GPU cores (that's the unbinned M4Pro). I'm pretty sure my M3Max outperforms it.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

What resolution are you planning on playing at? BG3 brings my M3Max 40 GPU core MBP 16 to its knees if I max out all the settings. The M4Pro, while having better GPU cores, still maxes at out only 20 GPU cores (that's the unbinned M4Pro). I'm pretty sure my M3Max outperforms it.

Curious about that BG3 on M3 Max. I wonder if the 16 GB of RAM is limiting. M series Macs really use RAM, a good thing.

 

[Basic75]

You can cut through all the fretting about different chips by asking one simple question. Do you need a new computer now? Or does your current computer still do everything you need it to do, and do it well (enough)? That's the only question that really matters.

 

[redheeler]

> Value is always going to be subjective and everyone needs to work out that one out for themselves.

Yes.

I require this:

- Gaming (things like WoW, BG3): Prio 1
- DTP and Graphics stuff: Prio 2 (would be prio 1, but I think the bottleneck here are bugs in InDesign (rendering large tables!), and not hardware specs)
- Video encoding: prio 3
- Xcode: prio 2

For the price of a Mac Studio, you can get a Mac mini for MacOS apps and also build a gaming PC which will play whatever games you want to play better than even a maxed out Studio. Double-dipping is always an option.

 

[NewOldStock]

For additional $600 or so in the future or less now on the mini its a hard choice on the unknowns of the new studio.
Lot of people in that place.

 

[PsykX]

I want to wait for the Mac Studio because I have the Satechi Hub for Mac Mini with a 2 TB of additional NVME storage, and it's compatible with the Mac Studio as well. It's a beautiful hub, I don't want to lose it.

 

[throAU]

Curious about that BG3 on M3 Max. I wonder if the 16 GB of RAM is limiting. M series Macs really use RAM, a good thing.

I’ve experimented a bit with bg3 on the m4 max. There’s an issue at the moment. Not sure if it’s a recent bg3 patch or macOS or m4 related. Turn off game mode. It runs way better.

Bg3 is cpu heavy and in game mode macOS prioritises the E cores, presumably so the gpu can run harder. But this is not what bg3 needs.

Presumably same on m3 max or any other recent m series.

With game mode on, bg3 seemingly ran worse on my m4 max than it used to on my M1 Pro.