Maxed out Mini now, or Studio in 2025?

[Chancha]

There is at least $400 USD that is unaccounted for, if you look at the current Mac Studio price since it is still on M2 Max.

In the M3 Max MBP release, the upgrade price from M3 Pro to M3 Max has increased (if I recall) $300 due to the SoC change. Then the upgrade from binned to full M3 Max also added another $100. This pricing structure has carried over to the M4 Pro Max MBP. Memory wise it is also unclear if the Studio will be like the MBP, locking certain RAM configs behind only the full SoC.

Also it is not totally unlikely that the M4 Max / Ultra Studio may need some change in its chassis I/O, since the mini has now been made a bit closer to it. I am in a similar situation as well and my line of thought is this: assuming a WWDC announcement, July ship date, a month of waiting for reviews or BTO delays, we are looking at a conservative date of August 2025 to get my hands on a M4 Max Studio (not considering the M4 Ultra). And between now and August do I absolutely need a M4 Pro mini around? Answer is a flat no, I have a M1 Max Studio still kicking. But everyone's case varies.

 

[magbarn]

Curious about that BG3 on M3 Max. I wonder if the 16 GB of RAM is limiting. M series Macs really use RAM, a good thing.

I have 64gb of ram. It's either CPU or GPU limited.

 

[StoneJack]

I would
1. Order base mac mini m4
2. Using leftover money, build a fast gaming PC

Use both a switch to 1 monitor and KM

 

[throAU]

I have 64gb of ram. It's either CPU or GPU limited.

Per above I’m pretty sure it’s cpu. I noticed a very significant increase in frame rate (like 1.5-2x) on m4 max by turning off game mode. This was in act 3 in the city.

According to eclectic light article, game mode tries to run the game on the E Cores (not the p cores) to give more thermal headroom for the GPU (as the p cores won’t be heat soaking the machine).

Ie. in Baldurs gates case, on the m4 max with only 4 E cores, starves the game of CPU.

What would be nice for Apple to do with game mode would be to let us turn cores on or off and prioritise which cores the game will run on. Because whilst most games are heavily GPU limited (which is why Apple tried to let those breathe by constraining the game to E Cores) it isnt ALWAYS the case.

Or even better let game mode analyse the game behaviour and tweak appropriately.

Or more likely - Apple collect runtime diagnostics and release an updated game mode which has a library of settings for different games and rather than just restricting the game to e cores, makes a more intelligent per game choice. Or exposes an API to the game dev to request priority on particular cores.

I’m sure game mode will improve. But right now it’s dumb as rocks. But it’s a start!

 

[gpat]

The Mini shines in value when you don't upgrade the RAM/SSD as much as you did.

Your needs really look more oriented towards the Mac Studio.

Also, it doesn't mean much, but you could get a 14" M4 Max and use it docked, it would probably be a better performer even in the basic 36GB/1TB spec, and I can find it for as little as 2979€ from third party resellers, probably you can too if you shop around. Or also 3799€ for the 16" with 48GB and unbinned SoC.

 

[Populus]

Hey OP, if you don’t mind waiting (and you say you don’t), and have the space in your desk for a Studio, don’t need the small size and light weight of the mini (I like to carry it around several places), and you’re going to give a good usage to the extra GPU cores of the Max, then by all means wait for the M4 Max Mac Studio.

Although I guess you already are willing to wait and see how the M4 Studio turns out. It’s probably going to be a beast with a great cooling that will make it perform maybe even better than the M4 Max MBP.

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

I was just about to order a Mac Mini with 64G RAM, 2TB SSD, maxed out chip. It would cost about 3200€.

This price seemed to be already in the price range of the Studio, so I checked the currently available Studio. And indeed: a Studio with 64G RAM, 2TB SSD, M2 Max with 38-core GPU sells for 3800€.

Of course I will not buy a Studio with an M2 now, the M4 Max will come in 2025. But it looks to me like it would be much better to wait for the M4 Studio than to buy the (comparably priced, but inferior) M4 Mini now, right?

Or is there something wrong with my calculations? Will the M4 Studio be more expensive (relative to the Mini) than the current (M2) Studio prices suggest?

Sorry for these possibly stupid questions. Last time I bought a new Mac was 2019, complete noob with Apple silicon. This will be my first silicon.

With anything from Apple, whatever just launched seems incredible now. But considering what value/$ the entry-level 2025/2026 Mac Studio might have, and how expensive upgrading the M4 mini is (terrible value/$!), I would hold out to see what drops in 2025.

The entry-level mini is a fairly good value. Maybe even incredible if you consider how little power it draws altogether. Can't be beat when considering those factors as a whole.

But, as so many influencers and buyers point out, once you start adding any of the upgrades to an M4 or M4 Pro mini, the value/$ drops to an extent that makes the whole thing quite unimpressive. Or, if not unimpressive, then at least a great Mac with some aggressively overpriced SSD and RAM upgrades.

If you can wait then you should wait.

However, if you told me you are a "MacBook person", using an M1 MacBook or older, then I would say you could justify buying a M4 MacBook Pro.

 

[Populus]

According to eclectic light article, game mode tries to run the game on the E Cores (not the p cores) to give more thermal headroom for the GPU (as the p cores won’t be heat soaking the machine).

Ie. in Baldurs gates case, on the m4 max with only 4 E cores, starves the game of CPU.

Interesting! According to that behaviour, Game Mode could actually benefit the base M4 chip right? Provided it has more e-cores (6) than p-cores (4), and if the GPU cores (10) at some point throttle, the M4 could see an overall improvement in performance, especially regarding GPU.

What would be nice for Apple to do with game mode would be to let us turn cores on or off and prioritise which cores the game will run on. Because whilst most games are heavily GPU limited (which is why Apple tried to let those breathe by constraining the game to E Cores) it isnt ALWAYS the case.

Or even better let game mode analyse the game behaviour and tweak appropriately. Or exposes an API to the game dev to request priority on particular cores.

Yes, this would be ideal.

 

[Ifti]

If the M4 Max chip is already available in the MBP, why isn't it in the Studio already?? What's holding Apple back from releasing it now??

 

[loby]

GPU being such a large factor for some of this, absolutely wait for the Studio. There is no debate really.

yes...it is hard to wait, but good things come to those who wait..

I would like a mini, but a M4 Mac Studio will be the dream machine I have wanted after my Mac Pro 2013. Saving for the funds to get is the challenge.

But if you want a mini "just because", get the base model and then wait for the Mac Studio. That is my dilemma.

 

[steve123]

I would like a mini, but a M4 Mac Studio will be the dream machine I have wanted after my Mac Pro 2013. Saving for the funds to get is the challenge.

😀
We need a kinda "conversion kit" that would allow us to move the internals of the M4 Ultra Mac Studio into a MP 2013 enclosure..

 

[Rychiar]

what do you use it for? I bought myself a base mini for $499 and it does everything I used to do with a $3000 iMac. I only bought it to hold me over til the new studio comes out but its made me think I might not even need the studio at all lol

 

[throAU]

I’ve experimented a bit with bg3 on the m4 max. There’s an issue at the moment. Not sure if it’s a recent bg3 patch or macOS or m4 related. Turn off game mode. It runs way better.

Bg3 is cpu heavy and in game mode macOS prioritises the E cores, presumably so the gpu can run harder. But this is not what bg3 needs.

Presumably same on m3 max or any other recent m series.

With game mode on, bg3 seemingly ran worse on my m4 max than it used to on my M1 Pro.

I think I need to address the above. The above is a bit of a mistake, while it does shuffle cores around, I think the thing that was tanking performance was actually FSR or one of the graphics options. NOT game mode. Just fired it up and got good performance with game mode turned on.

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

If the M4 Max chip is already available in the MBP, why isn't it in the Studio already?? What's holding Apple back from releasing it now??

Likely the lack of Ultra stock. They don't want to do a 2-tiered release schedule of the same product, simply because Apple likes to upsell, and that is not a possibility when the higher tier product isn't available.

 

[Fishrrman]

There's no way that the OP's question can be answered.
At least, not yet.

We don't know what Apple is going to do with the Studio.
I'm thinking they might "trim it down" in size (as they did with the Mini).

Then again, they could leave it in its current case, and just "update the innards".

Nothing to do but wait and see.
There may be more revealing rumors by Feb/Mar 2025...

To paraphrase an old saying:
If you want the new Mini now, then BUY the new Mini now.
If you're willing to wait, then... wait.

(speaking for myself... I'm waiting...)

 

[CharlesShaw]

Likely the lack of Ultra stock. They don't want to do a 2-tiered release schedule of the same product, simply because Apple likes to upsell, and that is not a possibility when the higher tier product isn't available.

And why sell one when you can sell two to someone who will buy the mini now and buy the Studio later.

 

[magbarn]

what do you use it for? I bought myself a base mini for $499 and it does everything I used to do with a $3000 iMac. I only bought it to hold me over til the new studio comes out but its made me think I might not even need the studio at all lol

This is what I did also. I plan on turning my Mac mini into a htpc in the future. M4 pro mini extortion upgrade prices already dwarf the cost of a base mini.

 

[Chancha]

If the M4 Max chip is already available in the MBP, why isn't it in the Studio already?? What's holding Apple back from releasing it now??

This has been discussed at length ever since the M3 Max launched and the Studio got ignored. There hasn't been a single time I read anything that made technical sense. Even the theories on market reasons only made remote sense. But modern Apple has a pattern acting this way with its Pro desktop line up, this isn't new. In the face of Trashcan Mac Pro 2013 needing 6 whole years to get a cheesegrater redemption, only to be outperformed by the M1 Air a few months later, this is how this company rolls (over the pros).

 

[whdigital]

I'm just going to toss in something here that I just posted to a similar thread over on Reddit...

As I read various threads on the new Mini M4 Pro for performance tradeoffs with it, I find it fascinating how many people are pondering waiting for a not yet announced Studio on the M4 architecture. I am no economist, but IF that even happens in 7-8 months, the extreme likelihood that there will be a price increase (in the U.S. at least) due to Trump's intentions around tariffs is a very real factor.

I personally know of a couple of manufacturers (unrelated industries) that are stockpiling sub assemblies and whole parts before Feb. just to safeguard against price increases to them. This is causing budget strain and supply chain forecast issues that are likely going to turn into price increases one way or the other. IF the tariffs do actually go into effect, Apple will play it off as heroic on their part if they are able to keep their own price increases down to "only" 20% or so. It will all be labeled as "temporary" but as with any kind of tax, it rarely ever is!

Buy what you can use/afford in the next 60 days. If the M4 (or M5) Studio comes out, is totally a game changer, and I'm totally wrong about a significant price increase then selling your relatively new Mini with some depreciation baked in will be the no big deal. If a price increase does occur while you waited, every comparison thread of "for the same money" goes out the window and you lose 6+ months of productivity and enjoyment out of the M4 architecture - and you'll be spending more to get ANY version of it... Just my $0.02!

 

[Igantius]

If the M4 Max chip is already available in the MBP, why isn't it in the Studio already?? What's holding Apple back from releasing it now??

Usually, there will be various factors at play with these kind of things. Something very common is that companies will want to spread releases across a longer period of time, rather than a short one - e.g. to have revenue distributed across the year, rather than chiefly restricted to one quarter; can be harder to market lots of products released at once. Without being on the inside, it’s impossible to know the reasoning for sure.


This is quite a while ago but when I was writing for one Mac magazine in the UK, Apple would typically make product announcements at MacWorld Expos but was starting to transition away from that. Partly, this was to do with the reasons above but it also affected how/when people would upgrade.

 

[ILoveCalvinCool]

I need a more powerful Mac than my M2 Pro mini, but I’m going to hold out for the Studio. I would need to max out the mini and that would only buy me about 6 months. It would be ridiculous to do that when the machine I actually need is on the way. I’ll just have to get by until then.

 

[Return Zero]

I think the biggest factor is that the mini's value proposition gets oddly worse with the Pro chip, and not just because of Apple's extortionate pricing ladder but even in relation to other comparable Mac products. For instance (using edu prices because I work for a school) a 699 mini (with 512GB to match) and 1499 MBP are $800 apart with the same "brains". This also reasonably lines up with the difference from mini to iMac which is $900, and makes sense when you consider everything the MBP and iMac are adding over the mini. However, speccing up to an M4 Pro mini suddenly throws that off, and you end up with a 1299 mini vs. 1849 MBP ($550 apart). Like, where did that other $250 (or $200 in non-edu prices) run off to??

The short story is just that Apple needs to rework their upgrade pricing structure in a bad way. It has been rudely exposed by the introduction of the 16GB base mini. In no universe should a 32/512 mini cost more than two 16/256 minis. That is absolutely asinine. RAM should be half the cost ($100 per 8GB), and storage should be half the cost as well. Raise the base prices if you have to, but the current numbers simply make no sense.

 

[throAU]

The short story is just that Apple needs to rework their upgrade pricing structure in a bad way. It has been rudely exposed by the introduction of the 16GB base mini. In no universe should a 32/512 mini cost more than two 16/256 minis. That is absolutely asinine. RAM should be half the cost ($100 per 8GB), and storage should be half the cost as well. Raise the base prices if you have to, but the current numbers simply make no sense.

Since the dawn of computing pricing has not been linear as you go up the tech stack.

 

[Boil]

The all-new Mac mini is a sweet design, but once one moves to the full-fat M4 Pro SoC & bumps up the RAM/SSD, the Mac Studio offers more for a similar price...

Me though, I am waiting for the all-new M5 Extreme Mac Pro Cube...! ;^p

 

[ZipZilla]

To me, the Mini is a consumer machine with a prosumer version. But for real pro work, I would get a studio. The M4 is hotter