MBP 16" Compatible Docks with 96W/100W Power

[matram]

A piece of supportive evidence, I was running CineBench R20.

Sustained power draw during the rendering 95 - 100W. Temperature around 95C. No evidence of trolling back power during a single run. Actually the fans never got really angry. Temperatur below is core 0.

System total power:

[automerge]1575471314[/automerge]
Here is another run with Intel Power Gadget. CPU packet power 60W. And obvious throttling.

 

[elgato2024]

CalDigit on Twitter:

“As for the wattage level: our docks will not provide 96W but will do 87W instead, as mentioned in our other tweets and social media posts. Our sincere apologies if we haven't been clear enough on this part.”

Basically exact opposite of CalDigit support messages. Would not recommend for MBP 16” unless you already own it.

Now need to decide if it’s worth keeping TS3 Plus for an under $225 purchase price or not. Hasn’t even been turned on yet since I’m still waiting for 16” to arrive.

and how about this one? does it provide enough power for the mbp16 under load?
https://www.caldigit.com/usb-c-pro-dock

 

[bsbeamer]

and how about this one? does it provide enough power for the mbp16 under load?
https://www.caldigit.com/usb-c-pro-dock

Provides 85W. TS3 Plus will (probably) be updated from 85W > 87W via firmware.

 

[andrewpsy]

That flat out sucks ...... Will have to look at other options.

Indeed, I have no idea why they are not planning to release an updated version to support 96/100W charging.
Maybe they have huge number of TS3 Plus docks in stock.

Before having a true one-cable solution available, I will use my existing Thunderbolt 2 dock from Elegato (TB2 to TB3 adaptor) with Apple stock charger plugged in at the same time.

 

[Rafterman]

Indeed, I have no idea why they are not planning to release an updated version to support 96/100W charging.
Maybe they have huge number of TS3 Plus docks in stock.

Before having a true one-cable solution available, I will use my existing Thunderbolt 2 dock from Elegato (TB2 to TB3 adaptor) with Apple stock charger plugged in at the same time.

I have the TB3+, and will just plug in the second cable. Because otherwise, the dock has performed well. While there may be a small few who use all 4 ports on the Macbook, one of them being the TS3+ (which has even more stuff connected), for most though, all this fuss over two cables vs one plugged in probably isn't worth it.

 

[bsbeamer]

Maybe they have huge number of TS3 Plus docks in stock.

That is my assumption. I purchased directly from Apple Business for under $225. Have seen some sales recently from other sources for under $250. B&H is backordered for the standard (shorter included cable) model. They usually have fire sales when a product is being replaced soon and they have not done that (yet).

 

[revmacian]

How about this dock?

OWC USB-C Travel Dock Gen 2 - 4K and 100W pass-through power (review) — GadgetGuy

The OWC USB-C Travel Dock Gen 2 should be your go to device for low cost USB-C expansion. It has 4K@30fps and pass through power.

apple.news

Is there any way to open this link in Safari instead of Apple's silly News app?

 

[bsbeamer]

I have the TB3+, and will just plug in the second cable. Because otherwise, the dock has performed well. While there may be a small few who use all 4 ports on the Macbook, one of them being the TS3+ (which has even more stuff connected), for most though, all this fuss over two cables vs one plugged in probably isn't worth it.

Does your downstream TB3 port on TS3 Plus provide the full 40Gbps bandwidth with MBP 16"?

 

[Rafterman]

Does your downstream TB3 port on TS3 Plus provide the full 40Gbps bandwidth with MBP 16"?

I didn't measure it, but I was able to copy 2TB of data from a true Thunderbolt 3 drive to my Macbook in about 20 minutes. Through USB 3, it would have take 4 or 5 hours.

 

[nethead]

So only taxing the CPU you're able to get the total system power draw to 130 watts? I'm definitely not able to do the same with anything I'm doing.

Yes, it's just a peak for ~2-3 seconds, but with "stress-ng --cpu 16" or Cinebench I get it to 136W. It then drops down over time and stays at round 95W - 100W total system consumption.

Very interesting. If correct this is well beyond the level of SUSTAINED power discussed before. Can you comment on how long the build times where? Or in other words had you reached a steady state with core temperature at 100C?

Building my software takes ~3 minutes, I ran it in a loop a couple of times though. The sustained total system power consumption to around 100W with the CPU pulling around 60W (measured with Intel Power Gadget).

The i9 2.4 GHz CPU was at constant ~92C after the fans ramped up to full speed in these tests.

What GPU are you using in the Razer Core X Chroma? Has a 700W PSU and if GPU in eGPU is pulling 500W+ that MIGHT explain a little bit, but still surprising.

Were you able to get the USB & Ethernet to properly work with MBP 16"?

I put an RX 5700 XT into it, but I'm pretty sure it didn't pull so much power, because its fans weren't spinning (zero RPM mode when idling on the desktop). I fear it's some kind of incompatibility with the USB-PD implementation, I even tried with the original Apple Thunderbolt 3 cable, but it was the same. The weird thing is that macOS correctly detects it as a 100W charger in System Information -> Power, but then only pulls exactly 80.00W from it as measured by iStat Menus (and observed via battery drain). Maybe this can be fixed in software?

USB & Ethernet "work", but are not reliable at all. The USB has drop-outs (mouse cursor stops, keyboard gets confused), which are visible as kernel messages in "dmesg". Ethernet loses the connection after some traffic.

It's a shame, because eGPU + 100W charging + 4x USB3 ports + Gigabit ethernet would be the perfect "one cable dock".

I have a support ticket open with Razer regarding these issues, but no response yet. And there's also some discussion, but no solution in their forum (search for: "Core X Chroma Ethernet dropping out on MacOS").

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaapple]

It's a shame, because eGPU + 100W charging + 4x USB3 ports + Gigabit ethernet would be the perfect "one cable dock".

Hi, would you mind describe the portability having a egpu? I mean when you plug or unplug the TB3 from macbook. Do you need to shut down the MBP? or just unplug and go? Thank you very much!

 

[bsbeamer]

I put an RX 5700 XT into it, but I'm pretty sure it didn't pull so much power, because its fans weren't spinning (zero RPM mode when idling on the desktop). I fear it's some kind of incompatibility with the USB-PD implementation, I even tried with the original Apple Thunderbolt 3 cable, but it was the same. The weird thing is that macOS correctly detects it as a 100W charger in System Information -> Power, but then only pulls exactly 80.00W from it as measured by iStat Menus (and observed via battery drain). Maybe this can be fixed in software?

USB & Ethernet "work", but are not reliable at all. The USB has drop-outs (mouse cursor stops, keyboard gets confused), which are visible as kernel messages in "dmesg". Ethernet loses the connection after some traffic.

It's a shame, because eGPU + 100W charging + 4x USB3 ports + Gigabit ethernet would be the perfect "one cable dock".

I have a support ticket open with Razer regarding these issues, but no response yet. And there's also some discussion, but no solution in their forum (search for: "Core X Chroma Ethernet dropping out on MacOS").

Unfortunately, this sounds like exactly the same experience a lot of people have with the Core X Chroma in macOS. The USB/Ethernet issues have never been addressed in macOS. Most say it's not worth purchasing over the cheaper Core X, but the PSU is "needed" for some GPUs even though they both max at 500W for GPU (but apparently the Chroma is better for sustained draw).

Will test the Sonnet eGFX 650 on the TB3 downstream of TS3 Plus and in isolation directly to MBP16 in the next few weeks. Still waiting for an RX 5700 XT to ship (hopefully early next week).

 

[charzhar]

Has anyone tried this StarTech dock? It says it provides 2x 4k @60Hz and 100W PD through USB-C.
https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Monitor-Docking-Station-DisplayPort/dp/B07LGR8Y14

 

[Quu]

Has anyone tried this StarTech dock? It says it provides 2x 4k @60Hz and 100W PD through USB-C.
https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Monitor-Docking-Station-DisplayPort/dp/B07LGR8Y14

Uses displaylink to deliver Display Port over USB-C, you don't want that. Get a Thunderbolt dock.

 

[elgato2024]

Uses displaylink to deliver Display Port over USB-C, you don't want that. Get a Thunderbolt dock.

do not understand....care to elaborate?
[automerge]1575559511[/automerge]
anybody made experiences with this one with a mbp16"?
https://us.targus.com/products/usb-c-universal-dv4k-docking-station-with-100w-power-dock190usz

 

[Quu]

do not understand....care to elaborate?
[automerge]1575559511[/automerge]
anybody made experiences with this one with a mbp16"?
https://us.targus.com/products/usb-c-universal-dv4k-docking-station-with-100w-power-dock190usz

Instead of sending Display Port data over the connection it uses a software method to use a driver and your CPU to send your screen data to the adaptor which then turns it into a DisplayPort output. It uses huge amounts of processing power to do so and is very unreliable.

 

[tobyg]

This adapter does NOT give the full wattage, but let me explain what I've seen.

Tiergrade 12 in 1 Triple Display Adapter USB-C hub
https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Tiergrade-Display-DisplayPort-Ethernet/dp/B07X1J7R34

Both coconutBattery and Apple System Information state "86 watts" when using the Apple default 96 watt adapter plugged into this hub. With the Apple adapter plugged directly into my MBP, both coconutBattery and Apple System Information state 94 watts. So, for some reason I'm losing two watts from the Apple adapter even when going directly into the MBP, and with this USB-C hub I'm losing another 8 watts, likely used by the hub itself.

So, likely in order to supply the full 96 watts, we'd actually need to find an adapter that is 96 watts + the wattage used by the hub.

I thought 100w was the maximum a USB-C cable/adapter can be. If that's the case, if your hub draws any more than 4w, you'll never find an adapter to give you the full 96 watts to the MBP itself. Correct me if I'm wrong (because I likely am). Mostly just posting this so if others see this adapter and want to use it, it may not function as expected.
This is about using hubs. Docks most definitely could supply the full 100w, since they likely come with their own dedicated power supplies that are generally not USB-C itself and run well over 100w, so they have the power to then supply a full 100w to the MBP. But with a hub, you're likely using your own power supply that came with your notebook or maybe a different USB-C power supply. But hubs generally don't have their own power supply like docks do.

 

[nethead]

With the Apple adapter plugged directly into my MBP, both coconutBattery and Apple System Information state 94 watts. So, for some reason I'm losing two watts from the Apple adapter even when going directly into the MBP

I also see this on my MBP. I think the “96W” charger is actually just a 94W charger. I can’t find where I read this, but I think the explanation was that the 96W are measured on the side of your wall outlet, while 94W is the power that actually arrives at your MacBook Pro. The 2W disappear in losses in the charger and due to voltage drop in the cable. It’s just a matter of perspective, basically.

 

[danwells]

Using two third-party power devices:

My Zendure SuperPort (not a hub or any other sort of data device - but does have extra power ports that can charge any USB-A device and/or 15W USB-C devices at the same time it supplies 100W to its main port) supplies 100W to the MBP without issue. IStat reports it as a 100W device, and it charges the Mac quickly, even when it's also in use.

On the other hand, my OWC 60W dock is entirely inadequate. It's easy to get the 16" MBP over 75W by running any intensive application while it's connected to an external display. Note that external displays automatically activate the power hungry Radeon. Even idling, it's drawing 30W with a display connected - half of which is the Radeon. A photo editing application or anything else that runs the machine hard will put the draw in the 65-90W range (often consistently over 75W or so), so expect a 60W dock to lose power if you're using the Mac harder than Safari, Word, etc. With a little help from Cinebench, it's not hard to get it up over 100W.

Most of us didn't buy the 16" to run Safari and Word, so 60W docks shouldn't be considered adequate for any serious use. I like the OWC other than this fault, so I'd love to buy a higher power version, especially if I could get either 10GB Ethernet, an XQD/CFExpress card reader or both in the deal. They have an 85W model now (which should be mostly adequate - it may drain a bit during spikes, but it shouldn't drain consistently), but it doesn't have either of the extra ports. I'm looking for something that's either 85W plus a useful extra port or two, or else 100W.

 

[bsbeamer]

Sonnet eGFX Breakaway Box 650 GPU-650WOC-TB3 delivers 100W charging when connected directly to the MBP16:

 

[bsbeamer]

Interestingly, when the Sonnet eGFX Breakaway Box 650 GPU-650WOC-TB3 is connected and then you plug in the Apple included charger (96W USB-C) the machine changes over to that charger, despite the lower wattage power draw. Thought the MBP16 automatically selected the "input" with the highest draw, but it obviously prioritizes Apple's own charger first.

AC Charger Information:

Connected: Yes
ID: 0x7002
Wattage (W): 94
Family: 0xe000400a
Serial Number:
Name: 96W USB-C Power Adapter
Manufacturer: Apple Inc.
Hardware Version: 1.0
Firmware Version: 1070051
Charging: No

 

[danwells]

Does it prioritize Apple's own charger, or any dedicated charger over any dock? This also means that you can't use a lower wattage charger to "boost" a lower-powered dock... I had actually considered that scenario, because I have a couple of 30 to 60 watt USB-C chargers around, and I had considered plugging one in near the 60W OWC dock, and using both at once... From this evidence, it suggests that I'd still get 60W from the strongest single charger, not the 100W the Mac can handle.

 

[bsbeamer]

Does it prioritize Apple's own charger, or any dedicated charger over any dock?

Unsure. I only have access to official Apple chargers for anything more than ~25W via USB-C, or docks.

Does it prioritize Apple's own charger, or any dedicated charger over any dock?
This also means that you can't use a lower wattage charger to "boost" a lower-powered dock... I had actually considered that scenario, because I have a couple of 30 to 60 watt USB-C chargers around, and I had considered plugging one in near the 60W OWC dock, and using both at once...

From previous support documents that I recall, this is NOT possible. The machine will pick ONE POWER SOURCE even if multiple are connected. You cannot augment/supplement from multiple streams/inputs. Might be better off with a USB-C go-between like a battery brick to accomplish that, but it would be a fairly expensive workaround (and totally unnecessary one at that).

From this evidence, it suggests that I'd still get 60W from the strongest single charger, not the 100W the Mac can handle.

If you're using the included MBP 96W charger, it appears the machine will default to that charger regardless of what other docks or power sources are connected.

When I get a chance, can attempt to connect an MBP13 charger (believe 45W or 60W) when the eGPU 100W is connected and report the result. Might be a few days.

 

[tobyg]

Sonnet eGFX Breakaway Box 650 GPU-650WOC-TB3 delivers 100W charging when connected directly to the MBP16:

View attachment 881144

I have an OWC Mercury Helios FX, which is essentially the same box as the Sonnet but this is only 550w instead of 650w. Mine only shows 87 watts. Which isn't bad, but I suspect the 650w obviously is able to give more power.

What I don't know is how they're determining that. Because as far as I know, it's just a standard ATX plug style power supply in here (size wise I think it's SFX). And I don't believe ATX power supplies have anything to communicate with the system (in this case the external GPU PCIe board) to tell how much power they can supply.

So my guess is something is coded on the board itself inside the eGPU. Maybe a jumper? I just looked and there are some jumpers underneath the GPU on the board, but none of mine have any jumpers on them. Can you look at yours and see if there are any jumpers on yours? I'm wondering if I can tell my box that it really has a 650w power supply and to supply 100w over the USB-C port. My GPU is a Vega 56, which appears to maybe use a bit over 300w. So even with another 100w and taking into consideration power for the eGPU board and such, I should be fine if I can get this thing to tell the mac to use 100w.

Edit: I found this on Sonnet's website:
If you upgrade the power supply and fan, you will have more power available to a graphics card, but you will not alter the upstream power delivery, which is programmed into the unit. Note that upstream power continues to be provided even when the computer is sleeping.

So it might be baked into the firmware/configuration on the board. I found a review of the 650w and saw images of the jumpers, theirs are all empty too. So it's likely baked into the firmware.

 

[bsbeamer]

There’s a few distinct differences between eGFX 550 and 650 internals, and you cited the PD difference above. 550 does 87W max and only the 650 can deliver 100W. Did extensive research about it before purchasing. Unfortunately, Sonnet support did not have a ton of good answers for questions I had. It’s the 650 and the Razer Core X for 100W, but the Razer does not live up to the 100W claim 100% of the time. Ultimately, Sonnet is advertising compatibility with more GPUs and publishes updates lists with specific vendor compatibility with Mac specific notations, so that sold me. Just hope the RX 5700 XT drivers mature a bit in the next release.