And probably sends your passwords and other data elsewhere with some UEFI level rootkits too. Very convenient.
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MBP Fingerprint sensor
- Thread starter maflynn
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Personal experience:
I bought a 2021 MacBook Pro 14" a year ago in February.
I've never set up the fingerprint sensor, and have no intention of ever doing so.
Just one more thing to go wrong.
Typing in the password is "good enough for me".
(yup, I'm a troglodyte -- the avatar was chosen very carefully)
I bought a 2021 MacBook Pro 14" a year ago in February.
I've never set up the fingerprint sensor, and have no intention of ever doing so.
Just one more thing to go wrong.
Typing in the password is "good enough for me".
(yup, I'm a troglodyte -- the avatar was chosen very carefully)
I agree. Same issue on iPhone & iPad as well. There should be an option for us to choose to not require passcode only after restart/shutdown. FaceID & TouchID after a restart/shutdown should still be allowed.
This is why. Your password is your secure entry into the computer. It is required to unlock your keys in the Secure Enclave when you first log in. After that, the TouchID is a convenience just like on iPhone or iPad. You can read about it in Apple’s Platform Security Guide.
Face ID and Touch ID security
Face ID and Touch ID are secure recognition technologies that work with the Secure Enclave in supported Apple devices.
support.apple.com
It's almost as if it's better when the os and hardware are from separate companies, and not "fragmentation".
I enabled fingerprint login on my MBP recently and discovered that I would have to enter my password at certain times.
I decided to use just my password after that, same as my iPhone and every other Apple device I use.
I decided to use just my password after that, same as my iPhone and every other Apple device I use.
As others have stated, the reason for this is that Apple prioritizes security more than most companies. Having a hardware-level requirement to decrypt your data using your password means your data is more secure than if it were unencrypted and required only a photo of your face for someone to log in and steal your data. If it were an option to turn the password requirement off, that option would also create another attack surface for hackers to gain access to your data.
This happens to me even when my MBP (2019 13" 12.6.3) doesn't reboot. Not sure what the exact conditions are, but I never shut down/reboot except for OS updates. I'm going to pay better attention...
-dan
-dan
I have the same issue since two days ago. 16 m1pro. I had to delete my fingerprints and rescan them. It’s not scanning accurately at all.
It's not inefficient. It's actually a very important security measure, particularly for people who have sensitive info on their computers, and definitely for people who travel an encounter law enforcement frequently (but anyone in general who has sensitive data on their device). iPhones (and Androids) work the same way: when you restart, you have to type your password before using the fingerprint sensor.
Here's why: In many countries, including the United States, law enforcement can legally force you to unlock your devices using your biometric information.
Restarting your computer is a simple and reliable way to avoid being forced to unlock your device using your biometric information.
A court can order a person to unlock a device using biometrics. A password / pin is protected under 5th Amendment.
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The main reason I don't mind this is because in many cases, you can be very easily legally compelled to unlock your device with biometrics (Face ID, Touch ID, etc), but you cannot be easily legally compelled to provide your PIN or password.
If airport security decides they're going to shake you down and demand access to your laptop, they can in some cases compel you to unlock your MacBook with Touch ID right then and there. To force you to provide your password however, my understanding is they would need to drag you in front of a judge, and the odds of that are basically nil - they're going to gripe about it, might even try to trick you into thinking you have to provide your password, but ultimately let you go unless you are seriously a criminal suspect and worth the trouble of referring you to police, courts, etc.
When going through airport security I always temporarily disable the biometrics on my Apple devices for this very reason. I don't have anything to hide, but I will defend and protect my privacy from those who think they have the right to it.
On an iPhone or iPad you can do this very easily by holding the lock and one of the volume buttons for a few seconds, and then hitting cancel. This bumps you out to the lock screen and requires the PIN to get back in. I just turn my Apple watch off, and if I were travelling with a MacBook I would just turn that off as well - not sure if there is a button combination like there is on the i devices.
I'm no legal expert, and this is based on what I've heard about Australian law, where I think you can be compelled by the courts to provide your password. Perhaps in the US the 5th amendment protects you from that entirely. Imagine actually having your rights and freedoms protected...
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I’m going to oversimplify this.
It’s called Secure Enclave. The biometric information is stored in it. To access that, the system need something first, aka your password (or PIN on the iPhone). Very simple and secure, from privacy implementation perspective. Apple considers the biometric data is private.
Microsoft Windows stores the biometric data on the OS side as a database file. So obviously it has immediate access and can use it as a “key” right off the bat. From privacy standpoint, this is less secure than Apple’s Secure Enclave.
Security and convenience is a balance. More of one will always be less of the other. Considering Apple's stance on privacy, I respect and don’t mind their implementation.
It’s called Secure Enclave. The biometric information is stored in it. To access that, the system need something first, aka your password (or PIN on the iPhone). Very simple and secure, from privacy implementation perspective. Apple considers the biometric data is private.
Microsoft Windows stores the biometric data on the OS side as a database file. So obviously it has immediate access and can use it as a “key” right off the bat. From privacy standpoint, this is less secure than Apple’s Secure Enclave.
Security and convenience is a balance. More of one will always be less of the other. Considering Apple's stance on privacy, I respect and don’t mind their implementation.
Security is the reason why I use a password. Am I deluding myself that a (complex) password is more secure than a fingerprint, or Face ID?
Sure, they could find some way to have their current system as the default but allow you the option of changing a setting to "never require password" or "Always allow TouchID."
However, you should not expect Apple to give you this option. They have a long history of not allowing many degrees of user freedom, and I don't think that's going to change. Heck, they don't even allow us to set how long an alarm snoozes on the iPhone. We are all locked into 9 minutes.
Exactly! Who decided that 9 minutes was the right amount of time to snooze?
Since long before Apple.
Why Is Snooze Nine Minutes?
Ten minutes might seem to make more sense than a nine-minute snooze time, but there are a few good reasons why snooze is nine minutes.
www.rd.com
There’s an option for "Automatically log in as”
TouchID biometric is stored in the Secure Enclave, which is locked. The system cannot access to biometric data without unlocking it first, hence the initial password/PIN.
You have your freedom. You can go back to PC and install Windows 98 and enjoy passwordless life. Using Mac is a choice, yours.
Not sure you're disagreeing with anything I said, but thank you for clarifying that you can have the computer automatically log in.
I know the reason why they require a password or pin to enable TouchID or FaceID. I just said if they wanted to give the user the option not to require it they could find a way. Could be as simple as not storing it in the Secure Enclave. I don't know.
Either way, my point was not to expect Apple to ever give this option, and you seem to agree with that.
Apple made the stance that your biometric information is private, as such it has to be inside lock and key (secure enclave). Your suggestion is to go against that just for convenience sake, and seems like that's not what Apple thinks.
And yes, Apple wouldn't turn 180 on this as it's against their own marketing. As such, it boils down to your own choice as there are alternatives outside Apple that does what you want, aka Windows.
i don't mind having to type in my password sometimes that much. it helps me not to forget my password after all.
but can anyone tell me in which ways a password is more secure than my fingerprints?
passwords can be brute forced, especially the easy and more common ones, while my fingerprints should be quite unique to just my person.
and if you are dealing with institutions who can easily fake your fingerprints (or cut your fingers off) you are having other problems than someone just trying to break into your computer
but can anyone tell me in which ways a password is more secure than my fingerprints?
passwords can be brute forced, especially the easy and more common ones, while my fingerprints should be quite unique to just my person.
and if you are dealing with institutions who can easily fake your fingerprints (or cut your fingers off) you are having other problems than someone just trying to break into your computer