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MBP glossy screen or not??
- Thread starter ethan101
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I don't want to be seen as perpetuating the debate, but I'm in a similar dilemma (G v M). So I did the side-by-side thing at the Apple Store in London for about an hour.
(if you want to do the same, try upstairs - you'll never get two MBPs to yourself downstairs because of all the punters reading their Hotmail accounts - they're virtually queueing up to use them. Someone even came up and started to use my iBook which I'd got out and placed alongside a matte MBP
)
I did a display calibration on two adjacent 15" C2D MBPs, one gloss, one matte, made sure brightness was up full, then ran FinalCut Pro on both, the same project, the same window layout. Here's what I thought.
* Yes, blacks appear slightly blacker on glossy, and the deeper blacks make dark scenes in video... well, a bit darker. Peak brightness is also slightly better - the menu bar on the glossy was clearly brighter than the matte one. A bit more like a flashlight! However, standing back and looking across the whole screen, it's not as if the glossy was dramatically brighter. Not that much in it.
* Colour rendering seems much the same. Like someone else said, don't confuse "saturation" with "dynamic range". Photos look a little snappier on gloss (which is quite nice) that's all.
* The glossy had always looked to me as if the colours and brightness vary more depending on viewing angle. I spent a couple of weeks with a glossy 15" MBP recently and often felt that the display brightness was a bit uneven compared to my trusty iBook - it seemed like a band across the middle of the screen was always brighter than the top or bottom. But I think that's simply because the top of the screen is at a different angle relative to your eyes than the bottom of the screen. However, when you play with the matte, you realise that the screen's apparent "gamma" and colour rendering varies with viewing angle just as much as the glossy. I wouldn't say that either is going to be particularly accurate for photo editing as what you see is very much dependent on viewing angle, especially in the vertical direction. Both are perfectly usable, but if you need accurate, repeatable colour, connect an external display.
* Glare and reflections - here's my interpretation. Lights that happen to be behind the user reflect in both displays. The difference is that the matte reflects light as a broad "wash" which reduces the contrast over a significant portion of the screen. However, it doesn't reduce the contrast so much that things become illegible (and probably won't until you shine something very bright at it). When you come to the glossy, the same light produces more of a "specular" reflection, and therefore has an effect on a much smaller area of screen - most of the screen's appearance is unchanged, but where the reflection occurs, the reflection is so bright that it often makes text in that small part of the screen unreadable. Solved by moving your head a bit or changing the screen angle. The question is, on the occasions when it's an issue, do you want to have to keep moving your head to see a particular part of the display?
* Comfort level. It's kind of subjective (and after an hour of staring intently at one machine then the other, my eyes were going a bit woozy on both!) but I came away feeling that if I had to sit and work for two hours on either machine, I'd be a bit more comfortable doing it with the matte display. Perhaps this is due to the effect mentioned above... was I subconsciously moving my head around to be able to see portions of the screen?
I must say, it was a very close run thing between the two, and after an hour I still couldn't honestly tell you which I preferred. Both of them are great, there wasn't nearly as much to choose between them as I thought there would be. I wish I could have played with them in an averagely lit room, and a darkened room, as well as the uber-bright environment of the Apple Store.
The glossy is obviously excellent for watching DVDs, and will work better outdoors (which might be a factor for photographers like me who occasionally have to literally work "in the field"). But I got the feeling that 95% of the time, my eyes would be happier working for extended periods on the matte. And that's what might have clinched it.
And yes, the matte is WAY better looking that the screen on my old iBook - it must be twice the brightness. The iBook was near-illegible in comparison with the matte MBP. Yet I'm pretty comfy using my iBook indoors in anything other than direct sunlight. So I'm sure I'd be extremely happy with the matte.
In truth, I'm sure I'd be pretty happy with either. If pushed, I think I'm leaning towards matte - which surprised me. Then again, ask me tomorrow and I'll probably tell you something different. Ugh, decisions decisions... I almost think Apple would do better to give us no choice at all! How many sales are they losing because people just can't make up their minds?
I'd still recommend that you check them out for yourself, but I hope my comments are some help to fellow ditherers.
P
(if you want to do the same, try upstairs - you'll never get two MBPs to yourself downstairs because of all the punters reading their Hotmail accounts - they're virtually queueing up to use them. Someone even came up and started to use my iBook which I'd got out and placed alongside a matte MBP
)I did a display calibration on two adjacent 15" C2D MBPs, one gloss, one matte, made sure brightness was up full, then ran FinalCut Pro on both, the same project, the same window layout. Here's what I thought.
* Yes, blacks appear slightly blacker on glossy, and the deeper blacks make dark scenes in video... well, a bit darker. Peak brightness is also slightly better - the menu bar on the glossy was clearly brighter than the matte one. A bit more like a flashlight! However, standing back and looking across the whole screen, it's not as if the glossy was dramatically brighter. Not that much in it.
* Colour rendering seems much the same. Like someone else said, don't confuse "saturation" with "dynamic range". Photos look a little snappier on gloss (which is quite nice) that's all.
* The glossy had always looked to me as if the colours and brightness vary more depending on viewing angle. I spent a couple of weeks with a glossy 15" MBP recently and often felt that the display brightness was a bit uneven compared to my trusty iBook - it seemed like a band across the middle of the screen was always brighter than the top or bottom. But I think that's simply because the top of the screen is at a different angle relative to your eyes than the bottom of the screen. However, when you play with the matte, you realise that the screen's apparent "gamma" and colour rendering varies with viewing angle just as much as the glossy. I wouldn't say that either is going to be particularly accurate for photo editing as what you see is very much dependent on viewing angle, especially in the vertical direction. Both are perfectly usable, but if you need accurate, repeatable colour, connect an external display.
* Glare and reflections - here's my interpretation. Lights that happen to be behind the user reflect in both displays. The difference is that the matte reflects light as a broad "wash" which reduces the contrast over a significant portion of the screen. However, it doesn't reduce the contrast so much that things become illegible (and probably won't until you shine something very bright at it). When you come to the glossy, the same light produces more of a "specular" reflection, and therefore has an effect on a much smaller area of screen - most of the screen's appearance is unchanged, but where the reflection occurs, the reflection is so bright that it often makes text in that small part of the screen unreadable. Solved by moving your head a bit or changing the screen angle. The question is, on the occasions when it's an issue, do you want to have to keep moving your head to see a particular part of the display?
* Comfort level. It's kind of subjective (and after an hour of staring intently at one machine then the other, my eyes were going a bit woozy on both!) but I came away feeling that if I had to sit and work for two hours on either machine, I'd be a bit more comfortable doing it with the matte display. Perhaps this is due to the effect mentioned above... was I subconsciously moving my head around to be able to see portions of the screen?
I must say, it was a very close run thing between the two, and after an hour I still couldn't honestly tell you which I preferred. Both of them are great, there wasn't nearly as much to choose between them as I thought there would be. I wish I could have played with them in an averagely lit room, and a darkened room, as well as the uber-bright environment of the Apple Store.
The glossy is obviously excellent for watching DVDs, and will work better outdoors (which might be a factor for photographers like me who occasionally have to literally work "in the field"). But I got the feeling that 95% of the time, my eyes would be happier working for extended periods on the matte. And that's what might have clinched it.
And yes, the matte is WAY better looking that the screen on my old iBook - it must be twice the brightness. The iBook was near-illegible in comparison with the matte MBP. Yet I'm pretty comfy using my iBook indoors in anything other than direct sunlight. So I'm sure I'd be extremely happy with the matte.
In truth, I'm sure I'd be pretty happy with either. If pushed, I think I'm leaning towards matte - which surprised me. Then again, ask me tomorrow and I'll probably tell you something different. Ugh, decisions decisions... I almost think Apple would do better to give us no choice at all! How many sales are they losing because people just can't make up their minds?
I'd still recommend that you check them out for yourself, but I hope my comments are some help to fellow ditherers.
P
I went through the same debate before I ordered a 17 inch MBP. I've always liked LCD HDTVs over Plasma HDTVs because of the glare issue with glossy plasmas. So going into the MBP debate, I favored the matte screen. But the more and more I looked at MBPs at the Apple Store, the more I was attracted to the glossy screen, and how the colors "popped" out at you. But I couldn't get past the reflection issues with glossy. At one time during the process I made the comment on these boards that my head was telling me to get the matte, while my heart was telling me glossy.
After many days pondering the issue, and many visits to the Apple store to compare matte vs. glossy, I finally went with my heart and ordered glossy. So after having my glossy MBP for a week now, what's my conclusion? Well, I'm glad my heart won out! I love my glossy screen!!
The first night I used my MBP a couple of times I caught myself asking whether this was really a glossy screen? I could hardly see any reflections--only when I moved my screen to catch the light just right was I sure it was glossy. So the first 3 days I used my MBP, it was only at night, and I barely saw any reflections.
It changed somewhat on the weekend, when I used my MBP during the day, sitting at the kitchen table with windows behind me. I could definitely see the reflections, but they weren't bad, and I merely changed the angle of the screen to avoid the reflections.
So I'm a happy camper with my glossy screen. Again, it's personal preference. It's almost like the PC vs Mac argument, with diehards on both sides. I can't say matte is right, or glossy is right, for everyone; but I can say that glossy was right, for me.
After many days pondering the issue, and many visits to the Apple store to compare matte vs. glossy, I finally went with my heart and ordered glossy. So after having my glossy MBP for a week now, what's my conclusion? Well, I'm glad my heart won out! I love my glossy screen!!
The first night I used my MBP a couple of times I caught myself asking whether this was really a glossy screen? I could hardly see any reflections--only when I moved my screen to catch the light just right was I sure it was glossy. So the first 3 days I used my MBP, it was only at night, and I barely saw any reflections.
It changed somewhat on the weekend, when I used my MBP during the day, sitting at the kitchen table with windows behind me. I could definitely see the reflections, but they weren't bad, and I merely changed the angle of the screen to avoid the reflections.
So I'm a happy camper with my glossy screen. Again, it's personal preference. It's almost like the PC vs Mac argument, with diehards on both sides. I can't say matte is right, or glossy is right, for everyone; but I can say that glossy was right, for me.
I am a very happy camper with my matt screen and surprisingly so given that I am coming from a Dell Inspiron 9300 truelife glossy screen which I use to love! It must be that Apple's matt screen is just perfect, colors and contrast level are just spectacular! Everytime I come across a glossy mac screen, I realize how happy I am with my choice!
I'm writing this on my literally brand new macbook w/glossy. It's great. I have an iMac 24" w/ matte. It's great, too.
Advice: Life is short; make a decision and don't fret overly. Both matte and glossy are fine.
Advice: Life is short; make a decision and don't fret overly. Both matte and glossy are fine.
As said before, DON'T make your decision based on these threads. Go to to a store and really take the time to look at them both. I'm am really glad I did.
I am sticking with the matte and here is why:
# 1. Blacks - shows all the screen dust, finger prints and marks. This is a big pet peeve of mine. Don't clean my current MPB matte all that often and I don't see the marks until I turn off my screen.
# 2. Color - while glossy is brighter, the glare was very dependant on the colors on the screen. When I went to the store to look, there happen to be many Macbooks (white and black) and each with a different background color. That really showed me the difference.
#3. Glare - it is there, period Might not bother you but for me, it did.
I am sticking with the matte and here is why:
# 1. Blacks - shows all the screen dust, finger prints and marks. This is a big pet peeve of mine. Don't clean my current MPB matte all that often and I don't see the marks until I turn off my screen.
# 2. Color - while glossy is brighter, the glare was very dependant on the colors on the screen. When I went to the store to look, there happen to be many Macbooks (white and black) and each with a different background color. That really showed me the difference.
#3. Glare - it is there, period
Might not bother you but for me, it did.
As said before, DON'T make your decision based on these threads. Go to to a store and really take the time to look at them both. I'm am really glad I did.
I am sticking with the matte and here is why:
# 1. Blacks - shows all the screen dust, finger prints and marks. This is a big pet peeve of mine. Don't clean my current MPB matte all that often and I don't see the marks until I turn off my screen.
# 2. Color - while glossy is brighter, the glare was very dependant on the colors on the screen. When I went to the store to look, there happen to be many Macbooks (white and black) and each with a different background color. That really showed me the difference.
#3. Glare - it is there, period
Ummmm acctually no this is false.
1. Blacks do not show the dust unless the screen is not illuminating (just like the matte). Same with finger prints. I'm sure if you went and looked at the screens in store you might see more on a glossy screen (so this may be partially true), but it is a screen in store! You know how many people have touched that? Little unfair to say that glossy shows them more when My background is completely black and I can't see a single finger print on mine... (haven't cleaned it since I got it and I know there are a lot. Enough that I ordered the lens cleaning rag to clean my screen).
2. Fairly true
3. No its not there. Tilt your screen to optimal viewing angle and no glare is there. If The lights to the screen to you makes a 45 degree angle or more then yeah reflections are there for sure. But really the light bulbs/ light source must be visible (bulb out of lamp shade) or must be the halogen lights. (my suggestion just don't sit with your screen like tilted more than /.
I would say that the smaller the screen, the more I'd choose glossy simply because when it's small you shield it from stray light with your body and the reflections are minimized. I've had macbook, 15"MBP matte and glossy and now 17MBP matte and feel that as a general principle, I still prefer matte over glossy. It feels much easier on the eyes to me, just more comfortable to work with for longer periods of time. The glossy DOES reflect more, although I got used to it and didn't think too much about it - the reflections were still there, especially those times when I wasn't sitting straight in front of the display. With the matte, viewing from the side is never an issue and there are usually no reflecctions at all. One more thing: I found the glossy to be better outside than matte - light reflects OFF the glossy and allows you to see quite clearly what's on the display, whereas with the matte light seems to be absorbed by the display and it washed out. Neither of them works GREAT outdoors so for anything other than email, web and word processing and audio, they're pretty much useless anyway.
You have to just see them yourself and then ask yourself what you're going to be doing and where you're going to be using it. BTW, DVDs look great on matte too! I don't think the differences are that great actually - colors and contrast on the glossy seem a little more vivid, but that can be both positive and negative.
Just try to think about your use of computers and don't let yourself be fooled by the immediate appearance of the glossy next to the matte. They're both really nice in normal lighting. The Apple Store has the worst possible lighting for viewing LCDs....
You have to just see them yourself and then ask yourself what you're going to be doing and where you're going to be using it. BTW, DVDs look great on matte too! I don't think the differences are that great actually - colors and contrast on the glossy seem a little more vivid, but that can be both positive and negative.
Just try to think about your use of computers and don't let yourself be fooled by the immediate appearance of the glossy next to the matte. They're both really nice in normal lighting. The Apple Store has the worst possible lighting for viewing LCDs....
Out of curiosity, is it possible to get apple to switch your screen? I have matte but I am thinking of switching to glossy. I don't like the fact that it's not as sharp, and I'm prepared to deal with some glare.
I find it hurts my eyes in certain conditions, and this is obviously not enjoyable lol.
I find it hurts my eyes in certain conditions, and this is obviously not enjoyable lol.
poppe is spot-on!
The only time you see dust on either screen, is when it's not lit - either screen cleans easily with a microfiber cloth, and I only do this with my glossy screen (as I did with my matte Titanium PBook) about once/week. And fingerprints? Unless you let your popsicle-slurping 5 year old play with your MBP, how the hell do you get your fingers on the screen? And why, since it's not touch-sensitive? Again, cleans easily with a damp microfiber cloth.
I've been amazed at the lack of glare with my glossy screen! You'd have to have your viewing angle set to the exact angle to perfectly reflect a bright light to your eyes, and whether in daylight or in brightly lit rooms, with multiple lamps, I'd have to try hard to set it up to see a reflected light.
I was quite opposed to the glossy screen announcement when the MacBook debuted, having seen such terribly glaring screens on Toshibas and other PC notebooks. But Apple has managed to change my mind, and I don't think I could "downgrade" to a matte screen now.
As others have said, there's no "right" or "wrong" - it's personal choice. For me, the choice is an easy one!
iBorg
Well, glossy screens are very nice, the colours looks good etc. However i'm sticking with matte as much as posable. I tried to watch a DVD recently while a passenger in a car using my Acer with a glossy screen, the picture was great, but so was the reflection of my face, the roof or the logo on my t-shirt, soo annoying, I was having trouble focusing on the screen some of the time
It is of course, quite posable Apples glossy screen is somehow different, i noticed the MB screen on a demo unit in John Lewis didn't seem so bad, but then it could well have been the lighting, it's hard to tell...
Anyway, go try some screens, it's the only way to know what works for you
It is of course, quite posable Apples glossy screen is somehow different, i noticed the MB screen on a demo unit in John Lewis didn't seem so bad, but then it could well have been the lighting, it's hard to tell...
Anyway, go try some screens, it's the only way to know what works for you
I think there is too much reflection on the glossy, for which I chose the anti-glare. It stays much cleaner as well, in my opinion (dust accumulates, but is easily removed).
Ummmmm, actually the original poster had it exactly right.
If your contention is that only the glossy screens in the store were touched with lots of hands, your bias is showing. Glossy screens show marks probably 2 to 3 times as evidently as the matte screen.
As for glare, you obviously haven't used both screens. There is a definite difference if you try both in varied light situations.
If your contention is that only the glossy screens in the store were touched with lots of hands, your bias is showing. Glossy screens show marks probably 2 to 3 times as evidently as the matte screen.
As for glare, you obviously haven't used both screens. There is a definite difference if you try both in varied light situations.
I have a 17" Matte, I was pretty surprised the first time I took it outside, it was just fine unlike my old PowerBook which was unusable outdoors.
Umm acctually no you are wrong as well. I use the Matte screen frequently. Since I started film school but did not have the C2D until Mid November I had to use my friends 15" Matte MBP. And I know there is a difference in the glare of the Matte. No one ever ever said that the Matte suddenly had just as much glare as the glossy or vice versa. There are just as many finger prints showing on his screen as there are mine. Unless you set the Glossy screen to an angle to reflect all the ceiling lights and then come at the Glossy screen at an angle from the side, then that is the only time the Finger prints just show up horribly.
So your bias obviously shows here. Mine was always out in the open. I have already said I think the glossy is a great thing. The difference is my bias does not cloud my responses like it has yours. Just because I call someone out in there lie does not suddenly mean I am saying pick this one its my favorite it should be yours two. No I am clearing out the lies so that when someone comes to this forum for answers they are not bombarded by trolling bull****
Before I got my MBP I searched all the online forums (including apple support) on the issue of glossy vs matte. I couldn't find "a correct answer" for me so I went into the stores myself before I commited to buying one. As I do print and video work, color is very important issue for me.
I spent quite a bit of time at the store having both versions side by side under almost identical lighting.
First off, the MBP glossy is WAY better than most conventional PC glossy as well as the Macbook. The macbook has a really crappy screen in my opinion. The gloss on the MBP isn't as bad as most mention, its quite delightful. Apple must have toned the reflection down with something. With that said, several times I have had a problem telling the matte from the glossy from a distant because the matte is glossier than my old powerbook.
The glossy is STUNNING. It does show a lot of details in photographs, which actually worried me since I do prints (commercial and fine art) because you just can't get all those details in a tree in print as you do on a screen like the glossy if it wasn't there in the first place. The glossy in my words for print is "hyperreal". The colors are beautiful and vibrant but too vibrant to be reproduced in real life exactly. (As always, which print artist only rely on screen colors anyway?)
Now for video, to test the colors, i brought in the color bars. Only using the stock videos clips on final cut pro at the stores aren't sufficient enough. You can't really tell the final outcome. The only way you can really tell how colors are is by the color bars. The glossy and matte fair similarly in both departments, at the default preset, they couldn't show true NTSC yellow for example unless you fidget around the display callibrations.
My final choice was the matte. The glossy as I said is STUNNING. However, one thing that really bugged me (the glare wasn't as bad of a problem) was the fact that when I looked at the dock icons as well as a anything light or white colored, it seemed too washed out. Funny how everyone talkes about the dark/black colors but never the whites. That's what made me decide to go for the matte.
I just did a video edit on my MBP and brought it onto a callibrated CRT monitor as well as a film projection room to test out the colors. You would be surprised what you do get at the end especially if you play with color correction with the blacks. (But as always, which video editor only rely on computer screen colors anyways?)
I spent quite a bit of time at the store having both versions side by side under almost identical lighting.
First off, the MBP glossy is WAY better than most conventional PC glossy as well as the Macbook. The macbook has a really crappy screen in my opinion. The gloss on the MBP isn't as bad as most mention, its quite delightful. Apple must have toned the reflection down with something. With that said, several times I have had a problem telling the matte from the glossy from a distant because the matte is glossier than my old powerbook.
The glossy is STUNNING. It does show a lot of details in photographs, which actually worried me since I do prints (commercial and fine art) because you just can't get all those details in a tree in print as you do on a screen like the glossy if it wasn't there in the first place. The glossy in my words for print is "hyperreal". The colors are beautiful and vibrant but too vibrant to be reproduced in real life exactly. (As always, which print artist only rely on screen colors anyway?)
Now for video, to test the colors, i brought in the color bars. Only using the stock videos clips on final cut pro at the stores aren't sufficient enough. You can't really tell the final outcome. The only way you can really tell how colors are is by the color bars. The glossy and matte fair similarly in both departments, at the default preset, they couldn't show true NTSC yellow for example unless you fidget around the display callibrations.
My final choice was the matte. The glossy as I said is STUNNING. However, one thing that really bugged me (the glare wasn't as bad of a problem) was the fact that when I looked at the dock icons as well as a anything light or white colored, it seemed too washed out. Funny how everyone talkes about the dark/black colors but never the whites. That's what made me decide to go for the matte.
I just did a video edit on my MBP and brought it onto a callibrated CRT monitor as well as a film projection room to test out the colors. You would be surprised what you do get at the end especially if you play with color correction with the blacks. (But as always, which video editor only rely on computer screen colors anyways?)
Hm, interesting opinion. after reading all these posts about going glossy i contemplated switching myself, but i didn't see that possible since I've had mine for over 14 days. I did go in to the Apple Store in Pasadena to have a Genius look at my squeaky spacebar and while I was there I decided to take a look at the Gloss MBP display. It was better than most PC LCDs, but they still had a lighted display directly behind it (/sarcasm Smart move on Apple's part) with iPods and such and i found it most annoying. To get rid of the glare, you would have to tilt the display further, but not enough to reflect the mercury lights above.
Dont forget that sources of light aren't limited to overhead ceiling lights..they come from windows, doors, etc. I know if i sat in my kitchen table with a glossy I'd be seeing more of what's outside my house than whats on my screen.
I have a matte. Call me biased, I dont care. I just love how i can whip my computer out in almost any lighting situation and get no noticable/focus grabbing reflections whatsoever. Outside direct sunlight? unless you're using it in the desert, i don't see why you wouldn't move into the shade or indoors for your skin's sake and the computer itself.
You're right. Captain Glossy FanBoi obviously has very little experience with computers. The only positive from the glossy screen is a richer color palate, but it's a) not accurate for color retouching and b) suffers from other deficiencies that dwarf that one positive.
These screens require constant wiping (if you're a neat-freak like I am) and the glare is impossible to overlook unless you can tune out reflections. To be fair, some people can - but most people in real life situations don't have laser-like concentration 24/7 and so there will come a point during the day (or various points) when the glare/reflection will be all-consuming.
Just try to take that glossy to a room with lots of windows on a sunny day. Good luck.
I never said that this wouldn't happen. I understand that completely. Of course if you have a backlight shinning on your screen you will have a horrible reflection. But many on these forums will claim that they can't see the glossy screen ever because of the ceiling lights. Whether that true or not is not for me to decide. But I know that when I'm at school and all 8 billion ceiling lights are on I only have a problem when I make a 45 degree angle with the lights, might screen, and me. If I do anything more than 120 degrees (base of computer being zero) then I have still have reflection. But when I sit slightly reclined/straight up and have the screen tilted at say 90 to 110 I am fine...
Grow up. I already proved you wrong and your response was to reply with name calling; not to even state where I was wrong or misinformed. Obviously your are trolling. It's one thing to bring an opinion and its another to skew it/over dramatize it.
Again every users mileage will very, but most of what you say is exaggerated.
The sunny day thing is true that i will give you. If you have a house with lots of windows that will constantly be on shinning on your back then Glossy is not a great choice for you. I find my self in situations rarely with lots of windows on my back so glossy worked out for me. If you do a lot of field work matte would a good choice again as well.