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Often, uni's are pretty cheap compared to real world business. In addition, they don't pay that well so a lot of the "good IT people" are snatched by private industry with high salaries. This as well as the "conservative" atmostphere in academic administration leave most uni settings in the dust when it comes to technology. If there is anything "cutting edge" it's usually in a lab cut off from anyone not involved in the project unless they are "field testing" it on a limited scale even. When you are in uni, you may not have seen that much so systems and "staff" seem to be cutting edge because you don't know anything yet. With the exception of some reasearch efforts that havent made it to market yet. When you go into industry, uni stuff is like toys. And when you consider commercial and well funded government (often military) R&D labs, sometimes industry stuff are like toys.

Wait what? So in order to play this lag free I'm going to have to be in the military? My point was that at university our 100mb or whatever it was connection still provided lag with nearby servers. Even on my home 1.5mb connection I live in the same broadband exchange as one of my fave TF2 servers but there is still lag. Yet apparently my connection should handle 1ms lag of compressed SD video at 60fps.

Time to enlist I guess.
 
A hype machine for what? Engadget, gizmodo, 1up and others witnessed first hand that they were playing cysis on high using just a MacBook. I'm surprised that there are people rooting against this. I'm don't know if it's going to work but I'm hoping it does. Macs get continually screwed when it comes to games because of direct x. This way we get the same games at the same time.

I've owned every generation of consoles since the 2600 except this generation. Quite simply I'm tired of having lousy hardware that continually breaks, exclusive deals with certain consoles, and game prices rising.

With onlive I get to do gaming on my mac without ever having to deal with windows, no red ring of death, and always get to play the latest and greatest without buying expensive new hardware.

People act as if there is some great reason to owning a game. Do they feel the same way about netflix? Or how about that $70 game you bought is no longer supported is no longer supported by the next generation console hardware.

It's vaporware simply because it's like the phantom, which people seemingly don't remember
 
Here's some related news. Gaikai and OTOY have apparently come out of “secrecy” to announce their competing product with the revelation of OnLive. One of them has claimed to use an AMD supercomputer class cloud computing system.

http://www.gamespot.com/hardware/bl...ing-games-onlive-gaikai-otoy-anyone-else.html

http://www.gaikai.com/

http://www.otoy.com/

Very interesting lol.. haven't read them yet but do they have some big publishers backing them at all?
 
It's vaporware simply because it's like the phantom, which people seemingly don't remember

how is it vaporware, people have used it, people have seen it, it is coming out in 3/4 of a year, it already has 9 developers and 16 games available
 
I really don't see how a company like OnLive can have the capital to actually take this to market. Sure they've developed the whole system but that's only the first step. I believe the company is looking for someone to buy them out, or at least licence the technology.

Imagine if Apple decided to become involved. Write an :apple:TV native version of the decompression software (a Mac version exists anyway) and make the game purchases part of an App Store for the :apple:TV. Immediately a £195 :apple:TV would be able to compete with the Xbox360 and PS3.

Just need to let the Apple designers loose with that controller to make it a little more ergonomic and pleasing to the eye.

:apple:
 
According to SpeedTest.net I get a 54ms ping to a server in London. Just imagine that, a 54ms delay on EVERY input you make in a game.

I can't believe this has gained this much traction. It will be a disaster.
 
Does anyone else see the social media implications of this? This looks like the dawn for the Facebook of games to me in some sense. I don’t think it has to have sub 50ms around the globe latency for it to be successful. It’s not about the traditional way of playing Xbox shooting games. It’s much more of a community based gaming system where you will also have access to a wide range of games.
 
According to SpeedTest.net I get a 54ms ping to a server in London. Just imagine that, a 54ms delay on EVERY input you make in a game.

I can't believe this has gained this much traction. It will be a disaster.

Im not 100% sure how ping delay is measured, but wouldnt it be a 54ms delay going in, then another 54ms delay coming back, so it would take 108ms for you to see the effects of your actions? Not to mention the little bit of lag from the game itself (its not much, but every game has a little controller lag), the lag from the video being compressed and encoded...
Until we all have T1 connections i just dont see this as a reality. And i am happy about that.

I love console gaming. If there is no PS4, xbox720, or nintendo whatever, i will be very sad. If i cant own the console or the game i am playing i will not play it. Heck, i dont even "buy" dlc from PSN (i say "buy" because you never really own the content and the devs can take it back whenever they feel like it). I buy games that are on discs or cartrdiges. If i cant sell my game when i am done with it then it is a terrible investment on my part. Thats also one reason i dont buy from iTunes. Perhaps i have an old-school mentality (though im only 19), but i dont like buying things i cant prove i own.
 
I really don't see how a company like OnLive can have the capital to actually take this to market. Sure they've developed the whole system but that's only the first step. I believe the company is looking for someone to buy them out, or at least licence the technology.

Imagine if Apple decided to become involved. Write an :apple:TV native version of the decompression software (a Mac version exists anyway) and make the game purchases part of an App Store for the :apple:TV. Immediately a £195 :apple:TV would be able to compete with the Xbox360 and PS3.

Just need to let the Apple designers loose with that controller to make it a little more ergonomic and pleasing to the eye.

:apple:

Somebody discovered Opt-Shift-K...

Sheesh, I get it, the Apple logo is spiffy.
 
Im not 100% sure how ping delay is measured, but wouldnt it be a 54ms delay going in, then another 54ms delay coming back, so it would take 108ms for you to see the effects of your actions? Not to mention the little bit of lag from the game itself (its not much, but every game has a little controller lag), the lag from the video being compressed and encoded...
Until we all have T1 connections i just dont see this as a reality. And i am happy about that.

I love console gaming. If there is no PS4, xbox720, or nintendo whatever, i will be very sad. If i cant own the console or the game i am playing i will not play it. Heck, i dont even "buy" dlc from PSN (i say "buy" because you never really own the content and the devs can take it back whenever they feel like it). I buy games that are on discs or cartrdiges. If i cant sell my game when i am done with it then it is a terrible investment on my part. Thats also one reason i dont buy from iTunes. Perhaps i have an old-school mentality (though im only 19), but i dont like buying things i cant prove i own.

Ping are measured in the time it takes to "Ping" the server and then receive the response. So, 54ms is his total trip time.

Controller lag is extremely minimal. Like... not even a ms, unless it's wireless. Even then, modern fast RF used for controllers is such a tiny amount of latency, it's barely worth mentioning.

Also, they claim that the video can be compressed and decompressed in 1ms. Seems unlikely to me, but let's just assume they're correct...

This idea could *feasibly* work, but it's not going to work great for everyone, unless OnLine has servers spread throughout the US and its other operating territories.

If I was able to connect to one of their servers with a ping of 50ms, and IF their technology performs as fast as they claim, it would be acceptable. Under 100ms is not bad.

It's still not going to come close to playing the game locally though, and I just don't see how they're going to handle the compression as well as they claim. Especially given the resolutions they are touting... even at 720p, that's only 1280x720. That's already behind the curve... I game at 1680x1050 on my Mac, and wouldn't want to go any lower.

Great idea that *will* eventually become reality when bandwidth has expanded and more folks have fiber directly to their homes. Until that time, I don't see it being feasible.
 
I would suspect that on average, speed in the US are > T1 (1.5 mbps). I’m sure OnLive and other services will have chosen areas that have a higher concentration of high bandwidth homes to start off. There are a lot of potential customers out there. No, sorry, this service wouldn’t be available to the same extent for everyone just as some people can still only get dialup. The world isn’t going to wait for you if you are unfortunate. Fact of life and get used to it.

But of course, like DSL, cable, fiber, WiMax, whatever…more people will get their turn as time goes by.

OnLive may have made a “grand entrance” with those super-graphics high-twitch games to “show off”…which is natural for any business wanting to hype their product before launch. But it’s certainly not limited to playing signature FPS titles nor is it simple a “console substitute”. It offers much more potential than what consoles can do in different aspects of community gaming. I think it has a lot of potential for casual gaming too. I imagine most people here are pretty hardcore because of the forum title, but you should know that the amount of casual gamers outnumber us by A LOT! And I’m sure the depth of games can be higher as you’re not limited to a CD or even a Blu Ray GB limit. Nor are you limited to the static processing power of your console or $3,000 Vista SLI area heater. There is a reason why WoW failed to come to fruition on the Xbox. And by some aspects that’s an old and low power MMO. Those issues are greatly decreased on a cloud supercomputer. And no…not everyone is going to play these uber games and kill the computer. I bet most people would play scrabble type games with each-other. Don’t forget PokeMon. Raise your hand if your Mom plays Crysis regularly. Yeah…anyone? …that’s what I thought.

Honestly, I think there will be a range of single player and multiplayer games that will be better on the Xbox or whatever for a while still. But the social / collaborative features might be a lot better on OnLive.
Maybe the “spectator feature” will interest people as well. It doesn’t have to be a “tournament”. It could be just for “reviewing”. You also can potentially learn from someone else playing…sort of like “hints”. It will make people close the gap better since they can actually see what works for others rather than read some huge wiki that misses a lot of details. Perhaps OnLive can introduce some banner ads here too to stem some of the costs and make subscription cheaper. Because I imagine that you would need a subscription to watch others play. Unless they can just cover spectator costs with just Ads.
 
Controller lag is extremely minimal. Like... not even a ms, unless it's wireless. Even then, modern fast RF used for controllers is such a tiny amount of latency, it's barely worth mentioning.
Exactly, there's a whole market that caters to lag-free gaming. People don't like lag, anywhere. Even the non-hardcore gamers.

It's still not going to come close to playing the game locally though, and I just don't see how they're going to handle the compression as well as they claim. Especially given the resolutions they are touting... even at 720p, that's only 1280x720. That's already behind the curve... I game at 1680x1050 on my Mac, and wouldn't want to go any lower.
Even on my 3 year old iMac I always play games above 720. The more modern games are limited to a minimum of 800-900p and this is on an ancient DX9 card. Therefore who is the market for this if even a low end graphics card, or even a built in one can handle games quite well?


I would suspect that on average, speed in the US are > T1 (1.5 mbps). I’m sure OnLive and other services will have chosen areas that have a higher concentration of high bandwidth homes to start off. There are a lot of potential customers out there. No, sorry, this service wouldn’t be available to the same extent for everyone just as some people can still only get dialup. The world isn’t going to wait for you if you are unfortunate. Fact of life and get used to it.

Once you're done you'll realise a service like this is going to need subscribers. Brilliant thing about Steam? Anyone, no matter their connection can download games. Brilliant thing about getting games from shops? You have them instantly and they're yours to keep forever.

So you're saying what; stuff anyone who can't get a fast connection, can't afford a fast connection, doesn't want to break their bandwidth limit?
Onlive's market is then limited already.

But it’s certainly not limited to playing signature FPS titles nor is it simple a “console substitute”. It offers much more potential than what consoles can do in different aspects of community gaming.
What do you mean by community gaming? Steam, Xbox Live. They've both pushing the boundaries of what you can do with other people surrounding the game.

I think it has a lot of potential for casual gaming too.
Uh, how? Casual gaming is noted by its visual simplicity and lack of high end system requirements. We gave away a Pentium 2 system years ago to a neighbour who played card games and other casual titles. Any system will run casual games and they're also very cheap.

And I’m sure the depth of games can be higher as you’re not limited to a CD or even a Blu Ray GB limit
Nope. Look at the disc size of games like GTA IV, Crysis, Fallout 3 or Oblivion. They're epic in scale and they're not limited at all by their medium.

Nor are you limited to the static processing power of your console or $3,000 Vista SLI area heater.
Or a £400 mid-range PC?

There is a reason why WoW failed to come to fruition on the Xbox.
Link to this evidence please.

Don’t forget PokeMon. Raise your hand if your Mom plays Crysis regularly. Yeah…anyone? …that’s what I thought.
Pokemon is owned by Nintendo, point?
No my parents would rather just play casual games as they already do on their computers and not sign up to a laggy internet streaming service to do so.

But the social / collaborative features might be a lot better on OnLive.
I don't get why you mean by the social/community side of Onlive being better than anything else ever, a new system trying to build a community is suddenly going to overtake the vast communities of Steam and Xbox Live?
 
Nope. Look at the disc size of games like GTA IV, Crysis, Fallout 3 or Oblivion. They're epic in scale and they're not limited at all by their medium.

Actually, those may have high graphics clients and all perhaps, but they are considered "simple" games compared to say...MMO's. You might think highly of them, but they are by no means complex or even remotely sophisticated compared to others out there. So if that's your point, I'm afraid you might be a victim of marketing hype.

What I'm talking about is stuff like this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nydW9XUA5VQ

But either way...it depends on what you want out of gaming. If you don't think cloud computing offers anything past client server whatever...you'll be banging heads against industry movers like Ray Ozzie, etc. who have been working toward cloud services (and the service vs. product model) for the past couple of years. And his team and others arround the globe have spent billions to make this happen.
 
Even on my 3 year old iMac I always play games above 720. The more modern games are limited to a minimum of 800-900p and this is on an ancient DX9 card. Therefore who is the market for this if even a low end graphics card, or even a built in one can handle games quite well?

If all people want in games is a high resolution picture, they should go to a museum and look at paintings. Are you joking? Or are you just trying to pick topics to vent and argue about. Gimme a break. LOL
 
^ edit: oh you posted again. Well done for posting something of utter bare relevance to this topic. Your joke posts aside the 360 has a massive community that people are willing to pay for and other systems are trying to emulate.

First of all please don't write 3 individual replies when you can do so in one post, thanks.

If all people want in games is a high resolution picture, they should go to a museum and look at paintings. Are you joking? Or are you just trying to pick topics to vent and argue about. Gimme a break. LOL
I never said that. You don't seem to understand much about games - its more than resolutions. Take an old game like Duke Nukem or Doom, they have about the same number of enemies on screen as similar genre titles such as Doom 3 and Crysis. But their AI is much improved. Games have progressed a lot and need more powerful systems to render them. Take something like Left 4 Dead; it's not the most visually demanding of modern games when compared to Project Offset or the Crytek Engine 2, but on my 2ghz C2D it can render 300 zombies all with their own (albeit basic) AI and physics.
Photographs aren't interactive either. What kind of argument is that?
Besides which, if you honestly don't think people don't care about graphics then why are these big graphic games such big business? Seen the sales figures for GTA IV or any recent major release? Why people buy new consoles?

Just google it if you're really interested. Here's one that explains a little on why it can't readily happen.
http://www.massively.com/2008/06/25/don-t-expect-world-of-warcraft-on-the-ps3-or-xbox-360-ever/

If you know anything about these types of games and how they work, you can just see the obvious reasons why it can't work.
Of course I know how games work I'm a developer myself. But that link doesn't prove any of your claims, you said it was specs but both the 360 and PS3's HDD are upgradeable. They also say it's down to patch verification and their services wanting a cut of the subscription fees. My 1.5ghz G4 PowerBook can run WoW. A monstrous (compared) 360 or PS3 would technically run it.

Actually, those may have high graphics clients and all perhaps, but they are considered "simple" games compared to say...MMO's. You might think highly of them, but they are by no means complex or even remotely sophisticated compared to others out there. So if that's your point, I'm afraid you might be a victim of marketing hype.

What I'm talking about is stuff like this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nydW9XUA5VQ

But either way...it depends on what you want out of gaming. If you don't think cloud computing offers anything past client server whatever...you'll be banging heads against industry movers like Ray Ozzie, etc. who have been working toward cloud services (and the service vs. product model) for the past couple of years. And his team and others arround the globe have spent billions to make this happen.

What that video has is something called post-processing effects, everything else looks very basic, infact the textures look terrible and the human models look very poor.
It's basic logic that big, powerful engines need big powerful systems to run (not counting bad ports). I don't know why you'd think otherwise. That's why my old computers are relegated to running weaker software :D it's not some global conspiracy.

And cloud computer will have its place. It's just not going to be christened with some laggy online gaming service on connections that only an absolute minority of internet users will be able to use. Especially a subscription service!

Still waiting for an answer to what you think this "community" thing OnLive will have over any other established services?
 
Still waiting for an answer to what you think this "community" thing OnLive will have over any other established services?

Not everyone plays games...or will play games...or will start playing games...like you, dude.

I've already listed some social feature that make it different. You're just not accepting the fact that it can't be done on the XBox. Even some posted videos and those floating arround have obvious implications. Maybe you just find it superfluous. But that's just being stuck in the "old way". To each his own. It's the majority that decides fate in capitalism.

What that video has is something called post-processing effects, everything else looks very basic, infact the textures look terrible and the human models look very poor.

You might want to turn up the volumn and listen to what they say. Sounds like you watched it as a silent movie.
 
Not everyone plays games...or will play games...or will start playing games...like you, dude.

I've already listed some social feature that make it different. You're just not accepting the fact that it can't be done on the XBox. Even some posted videos and those floating arround have obvious implications. Maybe you just find it superfluous. But that's just being stuck in the "old way". To each his own. It's the majority that decides fate in capitalism.

So you're saying a market with 11 million or so users on Steam (last time I read years ago), home consoles with hundreds of millions sold are going to be overtaken by a subscription service hindered by lag and limited to a selection of people with very fast connections who live near to these server farms?

Oh dear :D

And that video again- If you read the website it's just a method of streaming data through a plug in. Whilst it sounds as if the end user PC renders the data it is only displayed until the cache fills up. So again you're limited by connection speed. It's like taking Google Earth and saying it's the most powerful and largest textured 3D object "in the world" but all it does is stream individual sections. The end result is impressive but that's not something you can base a game off. A game engine has to be constantly "on", not streamed bit by bit. You are still going to need a fast computer to render all them polygons, a fast connection to stream it all without texture and model popup and a lot of ram to store the streaming data. You will not be able to run such a service off an old PC without taking a performance hit.
 
So you're saying a market with 11 million or so users on Steam (last time I read years ago), home consoles with hundreds of millions sold are going to be overtaken by a subscription service hindered by lag and limited to a selection of people with very fast connections who live near to these server farms?

Oh dear :D

No...and not overnight. There are still people who read newspapers. And magazines too. Maybe if you were here 10 years ago, you might be saying that there are 11 million New York Times subscribers and hundreds of millions delivered to newstands...blah blah and news will be limited to people who have internet? lol
 
No...and not overnight. There are still people who read newspapers. And magazines too. Maybe if you were here 10 years ago, you might be saying that there are 11 million New York Times subscribers and hundreds of millions delivered to newstands...blah blah and news will be limited to people who have internet? lol

Could you reiterate this point again? What have newspapers got to do with this? Without trying to sound too much like a dick could you keep your arguments coherent.
 
Could you reiterate this point again? What have newspapers got to do with this? Without trying to sound too much like a dick could you keep your arguments coherent.

Ha, your stoop to vulgar insults just proves that you yeild. You can try to dish out sarcasm...but can't take it...especially when you think you are a know-it-all but find out that you don't really know something as much as you thought. :rolleyes:
 
Ha, your stoop to vulgar insults just proves that you yeild. You can try to dish out sarcasm...but can't take it...especially when you think you are a know-it-all but find out that you don't really know something as much as you thought. :rolleyes:

No really, I'm sorry I didn't understand that post :). I'm not trying to insult you, I stick a smilie after an insult just incase they're not recieved properly :eek:. I love a good discussion.

I don't get what the NY Times has to do with anything. Could you explain it again?
 
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