Microsoft asks consumers to "do the math" before buying a Mac

[shenfrey]

I think it's to hide how good OS X is.

To be honest, this is a smart move from Microsoft. If there is one thing I cannot stand about Apple, it is the silly prices they charge. The Apple Tax is stupid.

I suppose on the bright side, at least we get what we pay for most of the time.

 

[maflynn]

I like how Microsoft thinks the 11" MacBook Air is a netbook

They're not the only ones

 

[neiltc13]

I think what we are all seeing is that the differentiating factor between Apple and "the others" is no longer software. Windows 7 is now good enough that it can easily compete with (and in many areas, exceed) the software offering on any Mac.

It's now down to hardware manufacturers to do the work to bring their machines up to a standard to match the OS. From what I've seen Dell have been making significant improvements in recent months and years and Lenovo still exudes quality.

Three or four years ago I wouldn't have considered anything that wasn't made by Apple. But now I'd definitely look at a Windows machine first when replacing my desktop and I'd give some Windows laptops a lot of consideration as well.

 

[Melrose]

The "Apple Tax" is largely just in the mind. PC Magazine, and several tech blogs, have had comparisons and found that a Mac is cheaper than machines from some Windows machines (I think Sony and Dell were more expensive but I could be wrong). Out of five tested, the Mac was in the middle.

I did the math, and gave it up after I had consistently lousy experiences with every version of Windows I used, with hardware from a variety of well known manufacturers.

I will happily spend the imaginary premium if it provides with a stable operating system.

 

[TheSideshow]

I think what we are all seeing is that the differentiating factor between Apple and "the others" is no longer software. Windows 7 is now good enough that it can easily compete with (and in many areas, exceed) the software offering on any Mac.

It's now down to hardware manufacturers to do the work to bring their machines up to a standard to match the OS. From what I've seen Dell have been making significant improvements in recent months and years and Lenovo still exudes quality.

Three or four years ago I wouldn't have considered anything that wasn't made by Apple. But now I'd definitely look at a Windows machine first when replacing my desktop and I'd give some Windows laptops a lot of consideration as well.

Unless I went iMac I would never go Apple for a desktop. I think Windows is better than OS X unless taking into account the benefits of a MBP+OS X in terms of power management/trackpad. Add the cost of a MP and forget it. Laptops they still have the best balance between design, specs, and quality as well as nice battery life in OS X.

Their MBP prices still need to come down a lot before I could ever bring myself to pay the premium though.

 

[Lone Deranger]

The microsoft usability tax costs even more, in wasted time and low productivity.

Haha... Well put Sir! That's exactly how I felt all those years ago when I ditched my last Windows PeeCee.

 

[ehoui]

I think what we are all seeing is that the differentiating factor between Apple and "the others" is no longer software. Windows 7 is now good enough that it can easily compete with (and in many areas, exceed) the software offering on any Mac.

Windows 7 is nice and XP is still a champ on my crappy Dell work laptop. But, to this day, I use my wife to validate such notions (not my own). She, a long time Windows user, will never go back because she just gets her stuff done on the Mac. She could care less about Apple (she rolls her eyes when I talk about the company). She uses a tenth or less of the power, but that's the point isn't it. The general user doesn't care about these specs, just about getting their **** done. with the minimum of hassle or problems.

 

[OutThere]

I'm no PC hater, but I do find these comparisons to be kind of amusing. I always come back to thinking about the comparison in terms of cars. A Toyota and an Audi are both going to easily put in 100,000 miles of reasonably reliable service, get you to and from work, and cruise comfortably on the highway. They'll both get the job done. The Audi is more expensive, and you can argue over whether spending the extra money is worth it, but there's not much argument to be made over which is the 'nicer' car.

The materials you touch on your average PC laptop feel decidedly cheap, which is understandable if you don't want to spend much money on your computer. For something I use and enjoy using every day, like a car, a computer, a couch, a pair of pants, a cell phone, whatever...I'm willing to pay a little extra for the good stuff. My choice. Show me a non-Apple laptop with a trackpad that will, after 2 or more years, still be just as smooth and easy to use as when it was new. Really, the trackpad is my biggest point of interaction with my laptop on a daily basis...a 3 year old trackpad on almost any PC will have been polished to a shine in the middle and lost its smooth gliding texture. I paid a premium for a premium product, so be it. Yes, I could have saved $500 by buying an HP. I could also save $30 and buy wal-mart jeans.

That said, I use a core2quad tower with windows 7 at work every day, and it gets the job done. The OS is stable, functional and reasonably elegant. It works, it doesn't make me want to break the monitor over my knee like XP used to, and I'm just as productive as I would be on a mac. I do, however, notice a few little things every day that remind me why I use a mac at home.

 

[kaielement]

Really this is stupid. Think about it buying a mac is like buying a high end sports car and buying a windows machine is like buying a low end junk car. Now don't get me wrong they both get you from point a to point be but let's face it it's funner and sexier to drive the sports car. NO I know fixing the sports car may be more prier but lest face it you really won't need to fix it very often and in most cases you might get comped on the repairs. Now the low end car over time will need to get fixed and I know it may be cheaper but all the little stuff adds up. I am just saying.

 

[BaldiMac]

Macs sales are growing at the same pace as the industry. This industry that is apparently post-PC. Basically, Microsoft are not loosing sleep over Mac sales. Microsoft are not going anywhere.

Mac sales have outpaced the market for 20 consecutive quarters. In other words, Macs have gained market share every quarter for 5 years.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

The "Apple Tax" is largely just in the mind. PC Magazine, and several tech blogs, have had comparisons and found that a Mac is cheaper than machines from some Windows machines (I think Sony and Dell were more expensive but I could be wrong). Out of five tested, the Mac was in the middle.

I did the math, and gave it up after I had consistently lousy experiences with every version of Windows I used, with hardware from a variety of well known manufacturers.

I will happily spend the imaginary premium if it provides with a stable operating system.

if maybe if you go spec for spec but often times you end up having to pay for a bunch of crap you do not need or want to get what you want from Apple.

Take this. I needed/wanted a 15in Laptop higher res screen and i7 processor. I bought it for around $1500. Same laptop from Apple over 2 grand. I was willing to give up the alumium body and battery life because they were not as high on my list.

Or try this one. Someone wants a 17 (hell even 15 in) screen but only really need a core duo or a i3 processor. If they went Apple they have to pay a huge tax to pay for all the extra crap they do not want/need just to get that 15 or 17 in screen they want/need.
Apple Tax is in the form of having to buy a bunch of extra crap you do not need/want to get the few items that you do need/want.

 

[Hastings101]

The iMac 27" is my favorite.. none of the all-in-ones it's compared to are even the same size on that chart. Even if you build a computer with the same equipment it's more:
---------------------------------------------------------
$1100+ for the 27" IPS monitor from Dell
$150-250 for the processor (i5 2390(I think)) according to Intel
$120+ for the graphics card (desktop version, not sure about the mobile) according to Newegg
Anywhere from $100 to $500+ for the tower and necessary equipment ( just depends on what tower, cooling etc. you purchase)
$100 for the Windows license according to Newegg Newegg
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
$1470 at the minimum, probably paying more or less for certain items, if you do it yourself. Probably higher cost if you buy it from a manufacturer. Either way not everything comes in a nice single package like the iMac does (which does have advantages/disadvantages). Plus the hours you get to spend putting it together if you do decide to build it yourself.

So at most you're not exactly saving tons of money, if any at all.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

The iMac 27" is my favorite.. none of the all-in-ones it's compared to are even the same size on that chart. Even if you build a computer with the same equipment it's more:
---------------------------------------------------------
$1100+ for the 27" IPS monitor from Dell
$150-250 for the processor (i5 2390(I think)) according to Intel
$120+ for the graphics card (desktop version, not sure about the mobile) according to Newegg
Anywhere from $100 to $500+ for the tower and necessary equipment ( just depends on what tower, cooling etc. you purchase)
$180 for the Windows license according to Newegg Newegg
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
$1550 at the minimum if you do it yourself, probably more if you buy it from a manufacturer. Slightly more expensive than the $1500 iMac, and not everything comes in a nice looking package. Plus the hours you get to spend putting it together.

I did the math for at least that one Microsoft, stick to making Windows 8 as awesome as Windows 7 instead of making terrible ads like this.

Umm do not use retail cost of the OS. You need to use the OEM cost. That is 100 bucks.

 

[Hastings101]

Umm do not use retail cost of the OS. You need to use the OEM cost. That is 100 bucks.

Fixed that, with what I think is the correct link. Thanks for the info

 

[zap2]

I'm upset that the compared the 11'' Air to such low end Windows boxes, I'm disappointed as I wanted to see some nice Windows ultraportables.

Seriously? A few MB's of RAM saved is worth over double the price? I'm not bashing Apple here, I love my Mac and I love OS X, but Windows 7 with an antivirus runs a hell of a lot smoother on my iMac than Snow Leopard does. When you take that into account, it pales into insignificance does running an antivirus.

Not to mention that plenty of OS X users now use an antivirus, despite there being no real need to.

Mentioning many OS X users use antivirus is useless, as anyone is in the conversation is able to decide not to run antivirus on OS X.

As for greater performance on OS X vs Windows 7 you'd need to compare software on both platforms, but since the best things on OS X don't run on Windows 7, I can't see many comparisons worth wild. (although this is personal, if you want Windows 7 software, go for it!)

 

[*LTD*]

I like how Microsoft thinks the 11" MacBook Air is a netbook

MS has no friggin clue when it comes to mentioning Apple directly about anything. Whatever comes out of MS that is anti-Apple falls completely flat after Apple releases their quarterly numbers. Why even bother calling more attention to Apple, while in the process also highlighting that what you peddle by comparison is total ****. It'll only result in more Mac sales!

 

[munkery]

Poof? Was it magic?

http://www.exploit-db.com/bypassing-uac-with-user-privilege-under-windows-vista7-mirror/

http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=win32k.sys+2011

 

[MBP13]

Even after that comparison of Apple's products to Windows', I'd still buy Apple.

Don't tell me that I'm wasting my money just because I can easily afford to purchase a Mac. Most of the people that talk crap about Macs are the ones that can't afford them, so of course they're going to talk bad about them.

I like cheap car vs. luxury car analogy. A Kia has four wheels, a windshield, a hood, and a trunk just as Rolls Royce does, but should Kia start a campaign that calls Rolls Royce over priced and a waste of your money? I certainly hope not.

Don't be hatin' on Apple because you're broke and can't afford one.

I should mention until this year, I was 100% for Microsoft and thought you had to be an idiot to purchase a Mac, and like the trolls on this forum, attacked Apple users for owning a Mac..Well, I see it the other way around now.

 

[chrono1081]

The microsoft usability tax costs even more, in wasted time and low productivity.

+1 I work fixing windows desktops and servers for a living and companies pay me pretty good to do it.

Not to mention Microsoft doesn't make the hardware, they simply sell the software. There is no such thing as "Apple Tax". If you get a Windows machine that is on par with the quality of a Mac machine then you will pay roughly the same, if not more for your computer.

Mentioning many OS X users use antivirus is useless, as anyone is in the conversation is able to decide not to run antivirus on OS X.

As for greater performance on OS X vs Windows 7 you'd need to compare software on both platforms, but since the best things on OS X don't run on Windows 7, I can't see many comparisons worth wild. (although this is personal, if you want Windows 7 software, go for it!)

I use Maya extensively on both platforms as well as Photoshop and Mac OSX runs them both faster. Photoshops difference isn't very big obviously but Maya is a pretty good difference during render times. Same exact hardware too.

 

[maflynn]

Even after that comparison of Apple's products to Windows', I'd still buy Apple.

Don't tell me that I'm wasting my money just because I can easily afford to purchase a Mac. Most of the people that talk crap about Macs are the ones that can't afford them, so of course they're going to talk bad about them.

I don't think anyone is stating that. I myself prefer buying an apple products when they fit my needs. I won't blindly buy one just because it has the apple logo though.

The sum of the parts, hardware+software usually make apple products a great solution.

Many people find windows based PCs to be an acceptable product and at a fraction of a cost, its a no brainer for many people.

I disagree with the luxury vs cheap car analogy. I built a core i7 that exceeds what apple provides and its much more "luxury" then a junker car. It looks great because the case I chose, it performs awesome and the cost was 1,500 less the comparable mac pro. I opted to turn the computer into a hackintosh because I do prefer OSX over windows.

BTW, to clarify my earlier remarks, I've purchased a mac mini, MacBook Pro and I've built out a core i7. I buy apple when it makes sense and build when I think thats a better option.

 

[OutThere]

I disagree with the luxury vs cheap car analogy. I built a core i7 that exceeds what apple provides and its much more "luxury" then a junker car. It looks great because the case I chose, it performs awesome and the cost was 1,500 less the comparable mac pro. I opted to turn the computer into a hackintosh because I do prefer OSX over windows.

You can throw a crate engine and a body kit on a Civic. It's still not a BMW, even if it's faster, more customizable and cheaper.

 

[mrsir2009]

They are comparing this to a MacBook Air. For gods sakes, look how thick it is! What sort of a comparison is that?!

 

[Melrose]

if maybe if you go spec for spec but often times you end up having to pay for a bunch of crap you do not need or want to get what you want from Apple.

Take this. I needed/wanted a 15in Laptop higher res screen and i7 processor. I bought it for around $1500. Same laptop from Apple over 2 grand. I was willing to give up the alumium body and battery life because they were not as high on my list.

Or try this one. Someone wants a 17 (hell even 15 in) screen but only really need a core duo or a i3 processor. If they went Apple they have to pay a huge tax to pay for all the extra crap they do not want/need just to get that 15 or 17 in screen they want/need.
Apple Tax is in the form of having to buy a bunch of extra crap you do not need/want to get the few items that you do need/want.

Very true - component for component, Macs are the same as Windows-based PCs. In which case, the only argument that can be tendered about the supposed "Mac Tax" is that Apple simply does not make a low-end computer.

In the end, with prices neutral, it boils down to personal preference and user experiences - in which case, if you use Windows and love it (whether it gives you problems or not), that's what you get. The funny thing is that everybody argues these points over and over but in the end it boils down to what the user prefers, nothing more. I base my opinions on my experience, those of others I know (both who use Macs and who don't), tempered with what I read in legitimate publications, which is all that can be expected of anyone.

 

[MBP13]

When I was deciding on getting a laptop, an HP Envy was suggested over the MacBook Pro 13 because it's supposedly just as good as a MacBook Pro.

Here's a video of an HP Envy along side a MacBook Pro 13. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0eTnABVBgw

Just seeing all the problems with that piece of crap made me decide that I'll buy the Mac. But, why else do you expect from a cheap Windows PC??

 

[FX120]

Eh.

I use Windows 7 at work and recently just built myself a new workstation. Total price including shipping with licenses for Windows 7 Business and Office 2010 was under $850 for a very good performing machine that does everything I need it to do (from Photoshop to AutoCAD) with ease. Right now I've got it totally loaded down and am using 7GB out of 8GB of RAM, and it's ticking along just happily.

I can't honestly say that I would be any more productive by using OS X, and I certainly don't go about my day missing anything in the OS.

Frankly I think it's all fine and good if you want to buy a Mac, but don't fool yourself into thinking that there aren't perfectly good and equally functional options out there for less money. I think the comparison of computers to cars is a stupid one. The difference between a Audi S4 and a Civic is a measurable, but I don't think that is a fair comparison. A more accurate example would be two Civics with equivalent engines and transmissions, only one has upgraded paint, rims, headlamps and leather upholstery while the other is base trim.

Apple serves a growing niche market of high end computers and without a doubt bests nearly every competitor with their excellent industrial design, and a price that reflects the engineering, materials, and slave labor craftsmanship.

But not everyone with a home stereo needs or wants to spend thousands of dollars on Krell mono block amplifiers when what ever comes in their home theater in a box is sufficient for their needs, and they don't want the cool design and minute performance increases.