Microsoft confirms that Windows 11 will not support Apple M1

[Javi74]

Hi.

I think these links can be interesting for the group.

"Microsoft confirms that Windows 11 will not support Apple M1 - Gizmochina" https://www.gizmochina.com/2021/09/13/microsoft-confirm-windows-11-not-run-on-apple-m1/

"Microsoft releases new Windows 11 builds, confirms running on an Apple M1 'is not a supported scenario'" https://www.theregister.com/2021/09/10/windows_11_m1/

 

[leman]

I wouldn’t expect them to say anything else. If they say it’s supported it means they are obliged to provide an official support service for running Win11 on M1 VMs. They obvi don’t want that. That is also probably the main reason why they are not rushing to release end-user version of Windows for ARM.

But most importantly, they are doing nothing to actually prohibit running Win11 in Parallels. And I think it will continue like that. They will tell you it’s not supported, but you will still be able to install and run it with full functionality. It’s an optimal situation for MS. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if they actually test Win11 on M1 internally.

 

[pshufd]

I wouldn’t expect them to say anything else. If they say it’s supported it means they are obliged to provide an official support service for running Win11 on M1 VMs. They obvi don’t want that. That is also probably the main reason why they are not rushing to release end-user version of Windows for ARM.

But most importantly, they are doing nothing to actually prohibit running Win11 in Parallels. And I think it will continue like that. They will tell you it’s not supported, but you will still be able to install and run it with full functionality. It’s an optimal situation for MS. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if they actually test Win11 on M1 internally.

Kind of like running macOS on Windows.

 

[bobcomer]

Kind of like running macOS on Windows.

Yep, neither allows it, but it's doable. (not for me, as an IT Manager I can't play with the rules so much.)

 

[JPack]

Even Intel 7th gen processors are unsupported. So no surprise they're not going put resources on Apple.

 

[pshufd]

Even Intel 7th gen processors are unsupported. So no surprise they're not going put resources on Apple.

They are putting resources on Apple but not the OS group. Microsoft 365 and Office 2019 provide native support for Apple Silicon.

 

[leman]

Kind of like running macOS on Windows.

Running macOS on windows is explicitly prohibited by Apple‘s software agreement. Does Microsoft actually prohibit a user from running their OS on an unsupported platform?

 

[KPOM]

No big surprise. The market of Mac users running Windows is likely too small for Microsoft to focus on. Microsoft makes more on OEM licenses since they don't provide primary support (it's up to the OEM), and Windows 11 is a chance for them to sell more OEM licenses by getting people to buy new devices.

 

[pshufd]

Running macOS on windows is explicitly prohibited by Apple‘s software agreement. Does Microsoft actually prohibit a user from running their OS on an unsupported platform?

I have no clue. I really don't care to run Windows on a Mac as I have multiple Windows systems.

 

[pshufd]

No big surprise. The market of Mac users running Windows is likely too small for Microsoft to focus on. Microsoft makes more on OEM licenses since they don't provide primary support (it's up to the OEM), and Windows 11 is a chance for them to sell more OEM licenses by getting people to buy new devices.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are Microsoft Engineers that use the M1 to develop and test on as it's quite a good platform.

 

[KPOM]

I wouldn't be surprised if there are Microsoft Engineers that use the M1 to develop and test on as it's quite a good platform.

I wouldn't be surprised, either. My guess is that the M1 runs Windows better in virtualization than it runs natively on the Qualcomm chips. I am running the Windows 11 preview, but my Windows needs are fairly minimal and WINE is also an option on the M1 (at least as long as macOS supports Rosetta 2).

 

[bobcomer]

Running macOS on windows is explicitly prohibited by Apple‘s software agreement. Does Microsoft actually prohibit a user from running their OS on an unsupported platform?

For x86/64 Windows, no, it's even licensed for VM's, no problem. For Windows on Arm, it's way more convoluted.

There's 2 types of licenses Microsoft has for the desktop market that are not business, retail, and OEM. Windows on Arm is only available to for OEM's to purchase, so that EULA applies, and that EULA says that it has to come with the hardware that runs it and it's not transferable.

 

[bobcomer]

I have no clue. I really don't care to run Windows on a Mac as I have multiple Windows systems.

I would only really need to run Windows on my Mac is I took it traveling, but as is, it wont be the laptop coming with me, I'll have to take a Windows laptop.

 

[deconstruct60]

Even Intel 7th gen processors are unsupported. So no surprise they're not going put resources on Apple.

Intel Gen 7 is misdirection . That is x86_64 issues.

For Arm , Windows 11 isn’t really leaving much of anything behind (***) .

Windows processor requirements Windows 11 supported Qualcomm processors

This specification details the Qualcomm processors that can be used with Windows 11 customer systems that include Windows products, including custom images.

docs.microsoft.com

the super early systems from 2018 with a 835 ( from 2017 ) are getting dropped but those were painfully slow , “version 0.3” systems anyway. The more current painfully slow option is the 850 which is being supported .

But I wouldn’t count on Qualcomm giving low level support in 4-5 years down the


the M-series isn’t “old” though . Bigger stumbling block is Apple not wanting to support it . Lack of TPM 2.0. . Also a standard or semi-standard boot environment .


*** - there might be some old Windows RT owners grumbling out there , but technically they got left behind by Windows 10 ; nothing new.

 

[KPOM]

the M-series isn’t “old” though . Bigger stumbling block is Apple not wanting to support it . Lack of TPM 2.0. . Also a standard or semi-standard boot environment .


*** - there might be some old Windows RT owners grumbling out there , but technically they got left behind by Windows 10 ; nothing new.

Parallels is able to simulate TPM 2.0. I wonder if Corel offered to be an "OEM" for Windows on ARM to sell licenses to Parallels users. That would take any technological pressure off Microsoft (as Corel would have to support copies of Windows that it licenses), but there are other reasons (such as not upsetting Qualcomm) why Microsoft might not want to do this.

 

[deconstruct60]

I wouldn’t expect them to say anything else. If they say it’s supported it means they are obliged to provide an official support service for running Win11 on M1 VMs. They obvi don’t want that. That is also probably the main reason why they are not rushing to release end-user version of Windows for ARM.

Both VMware and Parallels are going to sit on top of Apple’s virtualization framework . And frankly that framework is kind of far from fully baked and completed to presenting a truly secure boot . You can throw fake virtual security at the Windows binaries but there is no “There , there “ .

But most importantly, they are doing nothing to actually prohibit running Win11 in Parallels. And I think it will continue like that. They will tell you it’s not supported, but you will still be able to install and run it with full functionality. It’s an optimal situation for MS.

How is folks not buying license and running it for free optimal for Microsoft ?

In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if they actually test Win11 on M1 internally.

Sanity check maybe . Active bug find/fix iiterations , probably not .

 

[JPack]

Intel Gen 7 is misdirection . That is x86_64 issues.

For Arm , Windows 11 isn’t really leaving much of anything behind (***) .

Windows processor requirements Windows 11 supported Qualcomm processors

This specification details the Qualcomm processors that can be used with Windows 11 customer systems that include Windows products, including custom images.

docs.microsoft.com

the super early systems from 2018 with a 835 ( from 2017 ) are getting dropped but those were painfully slow , “version 0.3” systems anyway. The more current painfully slow option is the 850 which is being supported .

But I wouldn’t count on Qualcomm giving low level support in 4-5 years down the


the M-series isn’t “old” though . Bigger stumbling block is Apple not wanting to support it . Lack of TPM 2.0. . Also a standard or semi-standard boot environment .


*** - there might be some old Windows RT owners grumbling out there , but technically they got left behind by Windows 10 ; nothing new.

Windows 11 acts as a gateway to sell other MS products like Office and apps in the Microsoft Store.

Microsoft already created macOS versions of Office. So why would Microsoft support Windows 11 on M1? There's no benefit. The Mac App Store already exists. Nobody with a Mac runs Windows and shops at the Microsoft Store.

Qualcomm processors - of course MS will support Windows 11 for them. What else are those systems going run? Linux?

Microsoft will spend time and energy supporting Intel 7th Gen processors way before they devote resources to support Windows 11 on M1.

 

[deconstruct60]

Parallels is able to simulate TPM 2.0.

Simulate and implement are not necessarily the same thing . They could simulate TPM 2.0 by storing keys in an open file and in regular system RAM . That isn’t goiong to get tagged as supported .

On x86_64 both AMD and Intel have special mode instructions to implement a walled off RAM slice and mode to act like a separate area for secure processing.

If they add a “glue adapter stack “ in code between the hosted OS and the Apple Secure Enclave then keys are passing through regular user level RAM .

 

[Ethosik]

Simulate and implement are not necessarily the same thing . They could simulate TPM 2.0 by storing keys in an open file and in regular system RAM . That isn’t goiong to get tagged as supported .

On x86_64 both AMD and Intel have special mode instructions to implement a walled off RAM slice and mode to act like a separate area for secure processing.

If they add a “glue adapter stack “ in code between the hosted OS and the Apple Secure Enclave then keys are passing through regular user level RAM .

Honestly, that whole TPM requirement is going to be a major barrier. A system I built in 2020 with a 10th-gen Intel doesn't have a TPM

 

[pshufd]

Honestly, that whole TPM requirement is going to be a major barrier. A system I built in 2020 with a 10th-gen Intel doesn't have a TPM

Is there any kind of firmware setting on the motherboard that can simulate TPM, even if it doesn't have the chip? It would really stink if you can't run it on a 2020 system. BTW, my mb doesn't have the chip but can emulate it in firmware so I can run W11. I tried it when the dev version was released but it hosed my system and it took me a couple of hours to recover so I've been a bit shy about trying it again.

 

[Ethosik]

Is there any kind of firmware setting on the motherboard that can simulate TPM, even if it doesn't have the chip? It would really stink if you can't run it on a 2020 system. BTW, my mb doesn't have the chip but can emulate it in firmware so I can run W11. I tried it when the dev version was released but it hosed my system and it took me a couple of hours to recover so I've been a bit shy about trying it again.

I am not able to see any settings on the motherboard for it.

 

[Digitalguy]

This is quite a blow for Parallels. Personally I am trying to move to MacOS but I depend on Windows only software... So my M1 Mini actually is mainly used for the Parallels W10 VM (which I also use to avoid installing non native software on Apple Silicon). I guess Windows 10 should be fine for a couple more years, but at this point I'll think twice about, for instance, buying a new Apple Silicon Mac with 32 GB RAM so that I can allocate 16 to the Windows VM. And the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. Microsoft does not want people to move to Macs and use Windows just for Windows only software at best....They want them to buy Windows devices, not Macs....

 

[pshufd]

This is quite a blow for Parallels. Personally I am trying to move to MacOS but I depend on Windows only software... So my M1 Mini actually is mainly used for the Parallels W10 VM (which I also use to avoid installing non native software on Apple Silicon). I guess Windows 10 should be fine for a couple more years, but at this point I'll think twice about, for instance, buying a new Apple Silicon Mac with 32 GB RAM so that I can allocate 16 to the Windows VM. And the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. Microsoft does not want people to move to Macs and use Windows just for Windows only software at best....They want them to buy Windows devices, not Macs....

My opinion is that if you need to run Windows, get a Windows system. I have found native replacements for Windows programs on M1 for all but one program that I depend on now. So I will likely continue running Windows on my desktop next to one or two M1 systems. Apple has to do it this way to coerce software applications providers to port to macOS.

 

[Bandaman]

Windows 11 has been running perfectly for me in Parallels on my M1. Would be nice if it was native. Dunno why Microsoft isn't supporting it ... kind of stupid. I guess they don't want me purchasing another copy of Windows. Why do they hate more streams of income?

 

[Bandaman]

My opinion is that if you need to run Windows, get a Windows system. I have found native replacements for Windows programs on M1 for all but one program that I depend on now. So I will likely continue running Windows on my desktop next to one or two M1 systems. Apple has to do it this way to coerce software applications providers to port to macOS.

You can run Windows 11 on your M1 via Parallels. I've replaced most of my my Windows apps with macOS versions/alternatives, but there still some things that just aren't supported on macOS. I would love to abandon ship entirely someday.