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soLoredd

macrumors 6502a
Mar 12, 2007
967
0
California
On my MB, Office 2008 has been great. It was 2004 that was slow and actually got me to buy iWork. Pages is fine for my needs but I do need Word on occasion. I don't encounter the delay when typing. And it opens in about 6-7 seconds, which is faster than 2004.

I also find it weird how Apple has very specific hardware and OS software but people encounter the most random, different issues. You can have someone with the same setup as mine and find they have tons of issues.
 

kanon14

macrumors regular
Jan 28, 2008
228
5
Hong Kong
If you really need to use MS Office (like I do) then I suggest you use use Fusion/Parallels and install XP+Office there. Runs much faster than that Office 08 crap.
 

SampleX

macrumors newbie
Feb 14, 2008
6
0
I'm sorry that sounds like jibberish to me. i just loaded up office on my computer. what is this suitcase business?

Sorry about that.

If you're not having issues with Office, then the quest for a solution is irrelevent.

If, however, it is causing you problems with long loading times and ridiculous delays in accessing the 'font' menu within the application, the solution I proposed is of a sound basis and has now been proven to work. I would also testify that just as Office 2008 is supposed to be testably faster than Office 2004 or Office X, on my system, it is, now that I've fixed the problem.

To give you background to the solution:

a font is a system-level file which specifies a typeface as I'm sure you know. An application may effectively 'cache' the available font files in order to access them for use within the application. This is no problem to application OR computer if you are running on just the standard stock of system fonts. This is why the solution I offered is probably exclusively relevent to the larger proportion of Mac users who are creatives.

Typically, creatives in the graphics/design field and publishing business and the like will be using a multiplicity of typefaces rather than the 'staple' stock fonts supplied with the Mac system and/or any applications that include custom fonts. This ALWAYS caused a problem because the more fonts you have the more system files the system has to cache, and the more font files the applications have to cache, especially problematic if you're using applications which show the name of the font IN the style of the font (WYSIWYG font menus - which is an option by default in Office 2008). The loading of multiple font files can cause long load times, clogged memory, crashed applications, and that's without worrying about whether the fonts are corrupt. In my experience, a corrupt font can bring a system crashing faster than bad RAM.

The solution to this problem, amongst the wealth of 'FontDoctor' type programs, was a font management solution. This is where applications like Extensis Suitcase Fusion come in to the mix. At the simplest level, instead of putting your fonts in the system fonts folder, you leave them in an easy to find directory, and then hand them to Suitcase. Suitcase keeps a log of where your fonts are, and can even check them to make sure they're not corrupt, and then, when you want to use a particular font (or font set) you can go to Suitcase and 'activate' just that one font, or more than one, or a whole set, and it temporarily makes the font available to the system with a single click, instead of moving fonts in and out of the system folder manually. Using this method you can preview and select the fonts you want to use without having hundreds or thousands of files clogging up your system.

Suitcase also includes 'plug ins' for popular apps like Illustrator, InDesign and Quark so that when you open a file which uses fonts that aren't in the system folder, Suitcase automatically finds and opens them in order for you to open and edit the document in question.

The only reason to have lots of fonts in the system fonts folder is because you intend to use lots of fonts. If you intend to use lots of fonts then you are probably a creative, and should get used to the idea of maintaining an efficient ship. System clag is no good when you just want to use fonts occasionally on a case by case basis. Using a font management tool is good housekeeping for the task in hand.

Now, part of the complication can be the incorporation of FontBook in the MacOS by Apple - their attempt to make the Mac system a one-stop creative powerhouse. Unfortunately FontBook, while having some useful features, is just not as flexible or powerful as Suitcase and one of the things that it appears to do is to take activated fonts and dump them in the system fonts folder for easy access, unless you tell it not to do so (in application preferences.) Even with Suitcase installed, there are a number of situations in which FontBook could be activated and start reorganising fonts, and in this case I found that either FontBook and Office 2008 between them, or FontBook and another application, had located a directory of archived fonts in a remote part of my hard drive, and just added the whole lot to the system's list of available fonts, including corrupt fonts and old fonts and stuff due for a clear out.

When Word is loading up, notice that it hovers for a while on 'optimising font menu' on the splash screen. You'll see from that just how the Mac OS and these Mac applications make font handling a priority. When I noticed that Word was taking a REALLY long time over this and was throwing up an attempt to make Suitcase activate a font that I had never loaded in to Suitcase, in a location that Suitcase should not have known about, I knew that fonts were at the root of my problems.

There are about 28 base System fonts in a Mac System, and with the extended fonts available on the typical system there should be no more than a couple of hundred or so available at system level at any one time. When I examined my user level fonts folder I had over 1200 fonts in there, all listed in FontBook, with Suitcase only recognising them because they had been moved to the system folder. In my case, this is the issue. When I removed everything that was not a system level font, deleted it all (which also took a bit of time for the system to sift) and then restarted the computer in order to clear the cached files, Word and Excel loaded in a flash.

It might not be everyone's solution because it might not apply to everyone in their font usage, but the fact remains that a recurrent problem, solved by a singular deliberate course of action, indicates that the solution was indeed on the right lines.

To check this on your machine, if you're having problems like I was having, just use the Finder to go to MacintoshHD>Library>Fonts and you should probably have 200-300 fonts in there as a file count. Now use the finder to go to your user account and look in Library>Fonts. In my case I had over 1200 in there. I can't see too many valid reasons why, if you're a single user on the machine and you use a font management tool, you should have ANY fonts in there at all, certainly not 1200. If you find you've got hundreds in there too, what I'd do is this... create a new folder on the desktop and call it something memorable like 'Archived Font Files' and drag all the fonts in User>Library>Fonts into the new Archive folder, so you've not lost them, just moved them, and can move them back if the solution is a no-go. Now, simply restart the machine, and when it has booted try running Word or Excel, and see if there's an improvement.

If there isn't, nothing lost, and move the fonts back where they were if you feel you need them. If it IS a solution, then you need to really think about whether you might want to invest in Extensis Suitcase (you can also download a trial of it and test to see if you think it does help solve your issue, and you can buy a serial number for the application in order to activate it during the demo period so as to avoid reinstalls), and if you do, just drag and drop the 'Archived Font Files' directory into the Suitcase application window, and you can now use Suitcase to switch the old fonts on and off at will, and even better, you can now preview the fonts too, really easily, using the same application, and even print tables of font samples to see how they look on paper.
 

SampleX

macrumors newbie
Feb 14, 2008
6
0
If you really need to use MS Office (like I do) then I suggest you use use Fusion/Parallels and install XP+Office there. Runs much faster than that Office 08 crap.

I'm not sure how making an efficient fix to allow Office 2008 to run as quickly as it was intended is somehow a more problematic solution to installing System Virtualisation software, loading a Windows OS, and running Office on Windows XP within a Windowed OS environment. Personally, I can spare the 10 seconds required to boot up an application, and I can't really see how Word can work any faster than I can type... By the example you give, you'd be just as well getting two computers and leaving Office on a PC...
A bit of time, a bit of care, a bit of good housekeeping, and I've got my Office 2008 running perfectly.
 

kanon14

macrumors regular
Jan 28, 2008
228
5
Hong Kong
I'm not sure how making an efficient fix to allow Office 2008 to run as quickly as it was intended is somehow a more problematic solution to installing System Virtualisation software, loading a Windows OS, and running Office on Windows XP within a Windowed OS environment. Personally, I can spare the 10 seconds required to boot up an application, and I can't really see how Word can work any faster than I can type... By the example you give, you'd be just as well getting two computers and leaving Office on a PC...
A bit of time, a bit of care, a bit of good housekeeping, and I've got my Office 2008 running perfectly.
Of course I chose that route because I have a copy of Office 03 lying around and occasionally I need to use xp at work. The major issue I have with Office 08 is the marco compatibility in excel. And with all that problems added together I just don't think it's worth the money (I've already spent a lot on Air :p)
 

SampleX

macrumors newbie
Feb 14, 2008
6
0
Cool enough...

For me, I'm an avid Entourage and Word user, and while I'm sure Thunderbird and OpenOffice are perfectly viable, there's something about using the same suite as I use on the PC... Entourage is definately more stable and more reliable than it ever was for me before...
 

ViperrepiV

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jan 25, 2008
198
26
Sorry about that.

If you're not having issues with Office, then the quest for a solution is irrelevent.

If, however, it is causing you problems with long loading times and ridiculous delays in accessing the 'font' menu within the application, the solution I proposed is of a sound basis and has now been proven to work. I would also testify that just as Office 2008 is supposed to be testably faster than Office 2004 or Office X, on my system, it is, now that I've fixed the problem.

To give you background to the solution:

a font is a system-level file which specifies a typeface as I'm sure you know. An application may effectively 'cache' the available font files in order to access them for use within the application. This is no problem to application OR computer if you are running on just the standard stock of system fonts. This is why the solution I offered is probably exclusively relevent to the larger proportion of Mac users who are creatives.

Typically, creatives in the graphics/design field and publishing business and the like will be using a multiplicity of typefaces rather than the 'staple' stock fonts supplied with the Mac system and/or any applications that include custom fonts. This ALWAYS caused a problem because the more fonts you have the more system files the system has to cache, and the more font files the applications have to cache, especially problematic if you're using applications which show the name of the font IN the style of the font (WYSIWYG font menus - which is an option by default in Office 2008). The loading of multiple font files can cause long load times, clogged memory, crashed applications, and that's without worrying about whether the fonts are corrupt. In my experience, a corrupt font can bring a system crashing faster than bad RAM.

The solution to this problem, amongst the wealth of 'FontDoctor' type programs, was a font management solution. This is where applications like Extensis Suitcase Fusion come in to the mix. At the simplest level, instead of putting your fonts in the system fonts folder, you leave them in an easy to find directory, and then hand them to Suitcase. Suitcase keeps a log of where your fonts are, and can even check them to make sure they're not corrupt, and then, when you want to use a particular font (or font set) you can go to Suitcase and 'activate' just that one font, or more than one, or a whole set, and it temporarily makes the font available to the system with a single click, instead of moving fonts in and out of the system folder manually. Using this method you can preview and select the fonts you want to use without having hundreds or thousands of files clogging up your system.

Suitcase also includes 'plug ins' for popular apps like Illustrator, InDesign and Quark so that when you open a file which uses fonts that aren't in the system folder, Suitcase automatically finds and opens them in order for you to open and edit the document in question.

The only reason to have lots of fonts in the system fonts folder is because you intend to use lots of fonts. If you intend to use lots of fonts then you are probably a creative, and should get used to the idea of maintaining an efficient ship. System clag is no good when you just want to use fonts occasionally on a case by case basis. Using a font management tool is good housekeeping for the task in hand.

Now, part of the complication can be the incorporation of FontBook in the MacOS by Apple - their attempt to make the Mac system a one-stop creative powerhouse. Unfortunately FontBook, while having some useful features, is just not as flexible or powerful as Suitcase and one of the things that it appears to do is to take activated fonts and dump them in the system fonts folder for easy access, unless you tell it not to do so (in application preferences.) Even with Suitcase installed, there are a number of situations in which FontBook could be activated and start reorganising fonts, and in this case I found that either FontBook and Office 2008 between them, or FontBook and another application, had located a directory of archived fonts in a remote part of my hard drive, and just added the whole lot to the system's list of available fonts, including corrupt fonts and old fonts and stuff due for a clear out.

When Word is loading up, notice that it hovers for a while on 'optimising font menu' on the splash screen. You'll see from that just how the Mac OS and these Mac applications make font handling a priority. When I noticed that Word was taking a REALLY long time over this and was throwing up an attempt to make Suitcase activate a font that I had never loaded in to Suitcase, in a location that Suitcase should not have known about, I knew that fonts were at the root of my problems.

There are about 28 base System fonts in a Mac System, and with the extended fonts available on the typical system there should be no more than a couple of hundred or so available at system level at any one time. When I examined my user level fonts folder I had over 1200 fonts in there, all listed in FontBook, with Suitcase only recognising them because they had been moved to the system folder. In my case, this is the issue. When I removed everything that was not a system level font, deleted it all (which also took a bit of time for the system to sift) and then restarted the computer in order to clear the cached files, Word and Excel loaded in a flash.

It might not be everyone's solution because it might not apply to everyone in their font usage, but the fact remains that a recurrent problem, solved by a singular deliberate course of action, indicates that the solution was indeed on the right lines.

To check this on your machine, if you're having problems like I was having, just use the Finder to go to MacintoshHD>Library>Fonts and you should probably have 200-300 fonts in there as a file count. Now use the finder to go to your user account and look in Library>Fonts. In my case I had over 1200 in there. I can't see too many valid reasons why, if you're a single user on the machine and you use a font management tool, you should have ANY fonts in there at all, certainly not 1200. If you find you've got hundreds in there too, what I'd do is this... create a new folder on the desktop and call it something memorable like 'Archived Font Files' and drag all the fonts in User>Library>Fonts into the new Archive folder, so you've not lost them, just moved them, and can move them back if the solution is a no-go. Now, simply restart the machine, and when it has booted try running Word or Excel, and see if there's an improvement.

If there isn't, nothing lost, and move the fonts back where they were if you feel you need them. If it IS a solution, then you need to really think about whether you might want to invest in Extensis Suitcase (you can also download a trial of it and test to see if you think it does help solve your issue, and you can buy a serial number for the application in order to activate it during the demo period so as to avoid reinstalls), and if you do, just drag and drop the 'Archived Font Files' directory into the Suitcase application window, and you can now use Suitcase to switch the old fonts on and off at will, and even better, you can now preview the fonts too, really easily, using the same application, and even print tables of font samples to see how they look on paper.


Great, thank you for that thorough clarification!
 

brandon.vong

macrumors regular
Feb 8, 2007
154
0
I just ordered a new MBP, so should I just get Office 2008 or use 2004 until the kinks are worked out?
 

Clix Pix

macrumors Core
After reading a lot of commentary -- especially the negative stuff -- about Office for the Mac 2008 I decided that now would be a good time to wean myself away from Entourage as my email client and to move into Mail. I'll keep Office for the Mac 2004 on the machines on which I already have it installed but just won't be buying 2008 and installing that. The MBA, with its smallish HD, doesn't need to be cluttered up with 2008, so I'm using iWork and Mail in it instead and so far am very happy.
 

weeman

macrumors 6502
May 6, 2007
453
84
Orange County, CA
I dont know if anyone else has this problem but I have set spaces so microsoft word opens in a specific window. Whenever I switch to a different spaces window, the microsoft word document travels to the window also (And yes, it is not set to open in "every space"). Also, whenever I enter expose mode, the microsoft word document does not highlight when the cursor is over it. Seems like powerpoint and excel work fine but word is giving me the most problems. Similar experiences anyone?
 

tastydesignboy

macrumors newbie
May 1, 2008
1
0
Not sure about Font Book prefs??

I'm actually wondering if the ridiculously low load speed on the Office 2008 Suite Applications has something to do with font activation.

I run Suitcase on my MacBookPro (don't all creatives?) and I notice that when Word 2008 is attempting to load (it takes it over a minute and a half on my machine - which has over 4000 fonts stored on it) Suitcase pops up a cautionary error which tells me that I have a font that 'might' be corrupt... When I check the error dialog to see which font it is (always the same one) it is listing a font in a directory that Suitcase has NOT been given to manage... in fact, it is a font in a directory which contains nothing but copied data from an old machine that I sent off for repair a while ago, and have not had time to reinstate yet. So something in Word is causing it to push Suitcase into activating fonts that I've never told Suitcase even exist.

No other application does this.

Right now Suitcase runs a 'standard' set of System fonts.

Now... I also noticed this, which reinforces my view on this...

When Word DOES eventually load, and the load time is something akind to what I might expect if an application were trying to load 4000+ typefaces... I can click ANY of the menus in Word 2008 and they come up straight away... the Word 2008 FONT menu, however, will not highlight immediately and just the act of hovering over it causes the little Apple ticking clock "I'm thinking about doing what you've asked..." icon as the mouse pointer... It takes in excess of 20 seconds for this menu to load and appear, AND I've got WYSIWYG font face menu display turned OFF, and Word has gained access to FAR MORE fonts than are activated in Suitcase or resident in the System Font folder...

This would appear to be the root of the problem... Office is cacheing more fonts than the system is offering as being 'activated'...

Hi, Just read this as I have the exact same issue but I dont use Suitcase, I use Linotypes free font explorer (which is basically just as good) and looked at the apple Font Book app prefs to, as you say, switch off the automatic stuff but in prefs there is only 1 check box for 'Validate fonts before installing' so I was wondering what you meant by automatic?

Thanks
 

hildegueden

macrumors member
May 1, 2008
42
0
My Microsoft Word 2008 is also slow on my MBA. Damn!! why do I have to use it?. Pages just doesn't satisfy my needs.
 

krye

macrumors 68000
Aug 21, 2007
1,606
1
USA
Besides Windows, Office is the worst collection of code ever assembled by man.
 

dimme

macrumors 68040
Feb 14, 2007
3,264
32,153
SF, CA
I upgraded to Office 2004 on my MBP and I am also looking at Neooffice. I tried pages and it was not for me.
 

Consultant

macrumors G5
Jun 27, 2007
13,314
36
I think if you start looking logically at fonts and how they are activated in MS Office 2008 for mac, you'll be close to chasing a solution like I have...

There. Fixed it for you.

Yes, I remember that other versions of Office loads takes longer to open on a Mac with more fonts.

However, note there are no major software on Mac that loads dramatically slowly due to fonts, so this is a MS Office problem.

Same here, I use iWork which is really fast however I use Office 2008 for compatibility sometimes. Launch times for Office 2008 are awful slow especially on Word. The Windows version (2007) launches the suite almost instantly, hmm, I wonder why??? I hate Microsoft. They just want to keep Mac users at home like a dutiful wife and not in the business world.

After first launch it's faster on Mac.

I believe in windows, MS does something similar to launching office (note starting windows takes much longer than getting OS X to a usable stage).
 

fuzzielitlpanda

macrumors 6502a
Mar 24, 2008
834
0
phew i'm glad i'm not the only one who's experiencing slow load times on office 08. i thought it was because of the slow processor speed on the mba at first, but the app loads fairly quickly the 2nd time around.
 

Olvenskol

macrumors member
Feb 20, 2008
81
0
Stock MBA 1.6/80, Word 2008. Nothing special done with fonts. I have run Xslimmer, so plausibly Word fires up a little faster from cold start, but I have no idea tbh.

Double-clicking a one-page document immediately after cold boot: 20 seconds to load Word and get to the point where I could edit freely.

Quitting Word (not just closing the document) and redoing test: 4-5 seconds to load Word.

While it's definitely not snappy, these seem like reasonable times given the slower hard drive in the MBA.

If your times are way off from this, maybe there is something interesting to discover.
 

elppa

macrumors 68040
Nov 26, 2003
3,233
151
I decided that now would be a good time to wean myself away from Entourage as my email client and to move into Mail. So I'm using iWork and Mail in it instead and so far am very happy.

Good decision, Mail is indeed excellent.
 

n0de

macrumors 6502
Feb 3, 2005
321
0
I still can't seem to get it under 20 seconds.

I have parsed through my fonts, now I am down to 169. I have turned off all of the automatic stuff in Fontbook and uninstalled Linotype Font Explorer. I have no user level fonts, I have them all in system....

I have CS2 installed also, could there be something with it?
 

Seth Hawkins

macrumors newbie
Mar 31, 2008
13
0
NC, USA
No Probs with Office 2008 for Mac

I was using Excel and Word (2008) last night without any problems. Both seemed to run "normal" - no lag, no crashes. Word does take a little longer to load than the rest of my apps, but I wouldn't say that it takes "a long time" to load.
 

imonn

macrumors newbie
May 6, 2008
2
0
Font issues with Office 2008

HI:
Every time I open Excel, Powerpoint or Word in Office 2008 it wants to verify every single font in my library. It takes forever. How can this feature be disabled? I can't find anything in my preferences. I'm on Leopard.

Thanks.
 

jjahshik32

macrumors 603
Sep 4, 2006
5,366
52
yea the newer version seems to be a bit slower than the older 2004 version. I actually prefer the 2004 version even with all the updates (on both sides).
 

imonn

macrumors newbie
May 6, 2008
2
0
Thanks to all

Thanks, everyone for your advice regarding the ridiculous load time and font issues with Office. I really appreciate it and will try your solutions today.
 
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