That doesn't bother me, since Thunderbolt is great for external drives, and USB 3 is also OK.
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Mid-2017 iMac is >600 days old - all time record for an iMac without an update
- Thread starter EugW
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Unlike the 2018 Mini, the iMac Pro does not have soldered SSD storage but it's serialized to the iMac so it might as well be.
As to the basic premise of this thread: So what? I need a new iMac now. Not waiting for some mystery date. Now that refurb iMac Pros can be found under $4k, I'm buying within the next few days.
For what I need, the 2018 Mini is actually more expensive.
As to the basic premise of this thread: So what? I need a new iMac now. Not waiting for some mystery date. Now that refurb iMac Pros can be found under $4k, I'm buying within the next few days.
For what I need, the 2018 Mini is actually more expensive.
Hey, didn’t you need a new iMac 6 months ago?
But if I were looking to buy but didn’t need it right this minute I’d definitely consider waiting.
As for the iMac Pro, it’s a different product tier. Sure, if it suits you then great but most consumers don’t really consider the iMac Pro as a viable option to the iMac.
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I'm looking forward to T2 in my next iMac.
I have never ever desired changing out the drive in my iMac, and don't see that ever changing. I get that some people want to customize their machines, but the not so big surprise here is that makes the iMac not the machine for you.
With all the T2 issues, I'm surprised that anyone would look forward to having it in their computer.
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That's one of the selling points on calling it Pro. My opinion only but I think any new iMac design (non-Pro) will have soldered in RAM and SSD.
No. Mojave hasn't been out that long. I wanted to see what the 2018 Minis were like. Now I have and am ready to buy—maybe today, possibly Wednesday, perhaps Friday.
This thread is featured on the front page now. 
https://www.macrumors.com/2019/01/28/imac-longest-span-ever-between-updates/
https://www.macrumors.com/2019/01/28/imac-longest-span-ever-between-updates/
OK, four months then, plus the public betas.
I look at it this way: Since the iMac before the 2017 model was released in 2015 ... it was at that point that Apple decided the iMac would only be updated once every two years. It's early in the pattern, but given their reduced focus on Macs in general, I think that's a fair conclusion to make.
At any rate, we do know a new iMac will be out this year, and probably by spring or summer.
I have two things I'll be looking at closely with the new iMacs (and it will determine if I buy one):
1) Will it be 'crippled' with a T2 or T3 chip? I say 'crippled' because those chips seems to prevent ANY possibility of upgrading the hdd/ssd. I've done SSD upgrades on all the iMacs I've ever owned and love having the option to do that. The argument that the T2 gives me extra security is crap, imo. I know how to keep my iMac data safe, if I want to. I don't want Apple forcing 'security' restrictions down my throat that I don't need or want.
2) Will it be released prior to the release of os 10.15? If it's before, that's great, imo, since 10.14 is the last os to support 32-bit and there's a handful of nifty programs that are 32-bit that I'd still like to use on my main machine ... a fully modern machine.
At any rate, we do know a new iMac will be out this year, and probably by spring or summer.
I have two things I'll be looking at closely with the new iMacs (and it will determine if I buy one):
1) Will it be 'crippled' with a T2 or T3 chip? I say 'crippled' because those chips seems to prevent ANY possibility of upgrading the hdd/ssd. I've done SSD upgrades on all the iMacs I've ever owned and love having the option to do that. The argument that the T2 gives me extra security is crap, imo. I know how to keep my iMac data safe, if I want to. I don't want Apple forcing 'security' restrictions down my throat that I don't need or want.
2) Will it be released prior to the release of os 10.15? If it's before, that's great, imo, since 10.14 is the last os to support 32-bit and there's a handful of nifty programs that are 32-bit that I'd still like to use on my main machine ... a fully modern machine.
I have the 2017 iMac. Prolly the best computer i've ever owned but still... at least a spec bump is needed. Maybe trim down the bezels, give us access to hdd and memory and pls add faceID. The screen is big enough for the cameras. So jelly bout windows hello.
iCole wrote:
"I have the 2017 iMac. Prolly the best computer i've ever owned but still... at least a spec bump is needed"
I just went over to a friend's and helped him fix an email problem on his 2017 5k iMac yesterday.
It remains a VERY impressive Mac, best iMac yet.
If I need an iMac "today" (I don't), I'd have no problems buying one of them...
"I have the 2017 iMac. Prolly the best computer i've ever owned but still... at least a spec bump is needed"
I just went over to a friend's and helped him fix an email problem on his 2017 5k iMac yesterday.
It remains a VERY impressive Mac, best iMac yet.
If I need an iMac "today" (I don't), I'd have no problems buying one of them...
There's simply no excuse for the long delay between Mac refreshes. Four years for the Mac mini, five years for the Mac Pro, the iMac going eight months with outdated hardware, a nearly four-year-old MacBook Air being sold alongside a new one, etc.
Before Steve Jobs passed away this would've been almost unthinkable. Now it's basically the norm for Apple.
Before Steve Jobs passed away this would've been almost unthinkable. Now it's basically the norm for Apple.
There's a difference between the iMac being a good machine and paying top dollar for CPUs released in January 2017 and not implemented until June, 2 year old technology when, for the first time since 2012/13 there is a significant performance increase with 8/9th gen CPUs yet these aren't available and your still paying a premium for it.
Same issue with the 7700k throttling, poor cooling performance and that its speculated that these CPUs apple are buying are lower grade and run slower... yet you still pay a 30% premium.
I wouldn't exactly call it ideal.
So really if you want one you have to settle for a mid range CPU, single core is ok but the multi core is literally 5-10% performance difference to 2013/14/15 machines and similar performance to 2009/10 mac pros that can be had for literally a couple of hundred pounds. The only benefit is you get a desktop grade GPU with the 580... but again this is bang in the middle of the road and is hardly ideal to drive a 5k display, it would be perfect for 2k. Again the GPU is based on the 480 that was released in June 2016...
Either way its not something I would be paying £3000 for by the time you add a decent sized SSD and add your own 32gbs ram.
Performance? Performance?
Performance measure in Apple products should include more criteria, because they're precisely the kind of things you are paying for.
Performance: every external Sound Interface (DACs, etc) works in macs just by pluggin'. No drivers, no hassle, no looking for in the Net, no problems. Just an example. I think some sacrifices are done to favour stability and reliability.
For me, that's performance also. And is the reason I don't mind paying some more.
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I dont mind paying more either but Apple are beyond taking the Pi$$
Two of four desktops are running 2-6 year old hardware and are still the same price. Not cool.
You would be mad to buy either new from Apple currently, unless it was a refurb.
Expect another 20-30% price increase on current models too which makes them even worce.
Two of four desktops are running 2-6 year old hardware and are still the same price. Not cool.
You would be mad to buy either new from Apple currently, unless it was a refurb.
Expect another 20-30% price increase on current models too which makes them even worce.
Well, even Steve Jobs couldn't do anything against the shortage of Intel CPUs. Even when Intel has an upgrade, it doesn't mean they have that in the termal envelope and the numbers, Apple needs.
Also remember: The shortage of PowerPCs and IBM not satisfying Apple's needs was what made the move to Intel necessary in the first place.
I think, they are preparing the move to ARM and then you get speed bumps every year.
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Yet Apple still managed to release the first-generation Intel iMac less than a year after the last-generation iMac G5, despite the reengineered interior and different thermal envelope.
Another example is the redesigned iMac released in Late 2009, internally reengineered for processors with a different thermal envelope. Those processors in the appropriate wattage were only a few months out from release.
As for the shortage, I don't recall it ever affecting Mac mini or MacBook Pro availability, both of these use Intel's latest Coffee Lake CPUs.
Intel releases new processors every year, with occasional exceptions. The holdup is usually caused by Apple, not Intel.
But regardless, although ARM makes sense for lower-cost Mac laptops like the MacBook or MacBook Air, I don't expect (or hope) the desktop Macs to go that way.
There is no real shortage of 14 nm 2018 CPUs. Every company and their dogs have released entry level 6-core Core i5-8400 desktops for example. Plenty of desktop chips to go around.
The bigger issue is 10 nm ultra low power chips, which could explain the delay for the 12" MacBook, but that is irrelevant for the iMacs.
I was saddened when they got rid of the 24" size. I would have bought a 24" Retina. I find the 27" too tall for proper ergonomics, but part of that is because of that big chin.
Yes, they did. They had nothing else to do. No iPhones, iPads, Watches, Macpro, not many services. It was an easier time for Steve Jobs. How should he have fared otherwise, today?
Yes, Intel was at their best and could give Apple everything, they wanted.
Yes, but cutting out a new iMac.
Yes and no. Yes, Apple has special needs with challenging thermal design, cf. Mac Pro. What Apple really would need, would be 7nm cpus. But Intel can't even provide 10nm ones in large quantities.
Why wouldn't it make sense for desktops? Apple (including Steve Jobs) always wanted to control the supply chain. With their superb ARM chips, they would have control over the last bit.
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Exactly, everybody an their dogs build big pc boxes, with a lot thermal headroom and big noisy entry level fans.
It is not? Why? The Apple-has-dropped-the-ball-crowd is always complaining about loud idling iMac 2017. What is it then?
Loud and noisy because the thermal envelope of the 14nm chips are too high, or it doesn't matter? Choose one and stick to it.
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AMD's Navi GPU architecture was recently referenced in the source code of Mojave 10.14.2, so maybe we'll hear more about the iMac lineup by June or July.
? I don't find the 2017 models idle loud at all. In fact, at idle, I can't even hear it at normal seating distance, regardless of the CPU and GPU in the iMac.
The problem with the 2017 models is specifically with the i7-7700K. It gets very hot very fast, so that within 30 seconds of heavy CPU load the fan is running at maximum. I bought the i7-7700K and returned it after a week due to fan noise under load, not because of fan noise at idle. I replaced it with an i5-7600 and that is what I still have now. At idle the i7-7700K and i5-7600 sound exactly the same. However at max load the i5-7600 will stay quiet for many minutes.
To give you a comparison, for a test Handbrake video encode we did here, the i7-7700K would hit maximum fan in half a minute, and then would remain at maximum fan until the encode completed at 10 minutes. In other words, the i7-7700K was loud for 95% of the encode. OTOH, the i5-7600 would stay pretty quiet until about the 9.5 minute mark, and then would complete the encode in 12.5 minutes. So, the i5-7600 took 25% longer to complete the encode, but was relatively loud for about the last 30% of the encode.
What that means is that with short video encodes that last a few minutes, the i5 will stay effectively silent, in stark contrast to how the i7-7700K behaves.
The good news here is that the i5-8400 doesn't run as hot as the i7-7700K. However, the i5-8400 does run hotter than the i5-7600, and the i7-8700K runs as hot as the i7-7700K or even hotter. The question for the 2019 iMac is if they would update the cooling to compensate. Now, if they adopt the iMac Pro's cooling, it'd do pretty well, but then we might wonder if they'd adopt other characteristics like non-upgradable RAM, which would be very unfortunate.
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I know everybody's use-case is different. But that being said, I'm perfectly happy with my late '12 iMac. And it's almost 7 years old, which is pretty awesome.
What I don't like about the prospect of replacing my iMac:
1. Not liking the T2 chip. Sounds more problematic than any benefit to me.
2. Soldered non-upgradeable RAM or very-hard-to-upgrade internal drive? Forget it.
3. Price.
What I *hope* Apple does to entice me:
1. Bigger screen option
2. Cutting edge processors or leave Intel finally.
3. packet of lube.
Seriously though, I feel like I will have to ride out the sunset on using my current Macs and then....well whatever, it's not going to be a cost consideration at all for me anymore.
What I don't like about the prospect of replacing my iMac:
1. Not liking the T2 chip. Sounds more problematic than any benefit to me.
2. Soldered non-upgradeable RAM or very-hard-to-upgrade internal drive? Forget it.
3. Price.
What I *hope* Apple does to entice me:
1. Bigger screen option
2. Cutting edge processors or leave Intel finally.
3. packet of lube.
Seriously though, I feel like I will have to ride out the sunset on using my current Macs and then....well whatever, it's not going to be a cost consideration at all for me anymore.
iTurbo wrote:
"Not liking the T2 chip. Sounds more problematic than any benefit to me."
You have two, and ONLY TWO choices:
1. Buy a 2017 iMac WITHOUT the t2
2. Buy a 2019 iMac WITH the t2.
CHOOSE. (while you still have an option to do so)
"Soldered non-upgradeable RAM or very-hard-to-upgrade internal drive? Forget it."
The drive on the 2019's will almost certainly be soldered in and non-removable, as are the drives on the 2019 Minis.
The RAM will probably be socketed, but I sense the 2019 iMacs will come with an improved cooling system like the current iMac Pro. This means the DIMMs won't be user-accessible and will require DISASSEMBLING the iMac in order to change out.
"Bigger screen option"
Almost certainly NOT happening. I would say the odds against this are 99% or higher. The logical move would be to 5k on 32". But I don't think anybody actually makes a 5k panel in this size.
"Cutting edge processors or leave Intel finally"
Apple generally doesn't put the "latest and greatest" inside. I don't expect that to change this time.
These are my predictions, and I'm stickin' to 'em !!
Final advice to iTurbo:
If you want an iMac WITHOUT the t2, and WITH user-upgradeable RAM, buy a 2017 27".
But get one with an SSD inside!
"Not liking the T2 chip. Sounds more problematic than any benefit to me."
You have two, and ONLY TWO choices:
1. Buy a 2017 iMac WITHOUT the t2
2. Buy a 2019 iMac WITH the t2.
CHOOSE. (while you still have an option to do so)
"Soldered non-upgradeable RAM or very-hard-to-upgrade internal drive? Forget it."
The drive on the 2019's will almost certainly be soldered in and non-removable, as are the drives on the 2019 Minis.
The RAM will probably be socketed, but I sense the 2019 iMacs will come with an improved cooling system like the current iMac Pro. This means the DIMMs won't be user-accessible and will require DISASSEMBLING the iMac in order to change out.
"Bigger screen option"
Almost certainly NOT happening. I would say the odds against this are 99% or higher. The logical move would be to 5k on 32". But I don't think anybody actually makes a 5k panel in this size.
"Cutting edge processors or leave Intel finally"
Apple generally doesn't put the "latest and greatest" inside. I don't expect that to change this time.
These are my predictions, and I'm stickin' to 'em !!
Final advice to iTurbo:
If you want an iMac WITHOUT the t2, and WITH user-upgradeable RAM, buy a 2017 27".
But get one with an SSD inside!