Mixed feelings about the M1

[jz0309]

Apple announced a 2 year transition to M, we’re not done yet.
ALL Macs are new designs, the original MBA and MBP only slightly on the outside though.
Then we got hit with a pandemic that impacted every company, in multiple ways, and while Apple does not say anything about it, in my mind it has prolonged the transition.
There Is more to come this year, in my mind Apple has done an awesome job in this transition thus far

 

[skaertus]

iPod, iPod Mini, iPod Nano, iPod Touch, iPod Shuffle

Powerbook 12", PowerBook, 15", Powerbook 17"

iBook 12", iBook 14"

MacBook, MacBook Pro, MacBook Air

Steve Jobs ended up creating similar variations, he just didn't give them unique names.

iPhone SE, iPhone mini, iPhone, iPhone Pro, iPhone Pro Max

iPad, iPad mini, iPad Air, 11-inch iPad Pro, 12.9-inch iPad Pro

5 variations of each. I suppose Tim Cook wins here.

 

[robco74]

Why are you bashing Tim? In many ways he is a much better leader than Jobs was. Almost every product is the yardstick by which competitors are judged. Are <wireless headphones> as good as AirPods? How does <latest laptop> compare with the MBP? How does <latest Android handset> measure up to iPhone? I would say the same about iPad, but Apple doesn't really have any competitors in the tablet space. They have competitive products in pretty much every area they compete in.

Meanwhile take a look at product lines from Dell, HP, Lenovo, Samsung, Acer - pretty much every other electronics maker. Their strategy is pretty much throw everything against the wall and see what sticks.

Apple has not only done well under Tim's leadership, it has thrived beyond pretty much all expectations. But sure, he's a failure because you can't decide which iPad or iPhone to buy.

 

[darngooddesign]

iPhone SE, iPhone mini, iPhone, iPhone Pro, iPhone Pro Max

iPad, iPad mini, iPad Air, 11-inch iPad Pro, 12.9-inch iPad Pro

5 variations of each. I suppose Tim Cook wins here.

No one wins or loses, Tim Cook is doing what Steve Jobs did.

People who say "Steve Jobs would never..." are usually proven to be incorrect.

 

[ouimetnick]

Although the M1 was revolutionary, Apple did not care to change the composition of its MacBook Pro line-up. There is still a small model and a larger one. Apple is not willing to make a third MacBook Pro size, for instance.

Major chassis redesigns didn't happen immediately under Steve Jobs during the Intel transition of 2005-2006. The MacBook Pro used the PowerBook G4 chassis for nearly 3 years (October 2008 unibody redesign). The iMac continued to use the same iMac G5 chassis until a redesign with aluminum in August 2007 (20 months later). The Mac Pro continued to use the Power Mac G5 enclosure until 2013 (6.5 years later). Sure the MacBook was a all new design, but so is the M1 24" iMac.

So far we have a redesigned iMac and amazing MacBook Pro (I love my M1 Max 14" MBP) We are farther along under Tim Apple than we were under Steve Jobs. It doesn't really matter to me, I'm just happy to see Apple Pay attention to their Macintosh users after giving them a crappy MacBook Pro from 2016-2021.

My 14" MBP feels like it was meant to be the perfect upgrade from my 2014 13" MBP. Nicer in every way, still has MagSafe, HDMI, etc, I couldn't be happier where Apple is headed.

 

[IG88]

Although the M1 was revolutionary, Apple did not care to change the composition of its MacBook Pro line-up. There is still a small model and a larger one. Apple is not willing to make a third MacBook Pro size, for instance.

There is a 16" and 14" MBP with the M1 Pro, and an entry level MBP 13" with the M1.

Is the M1 13" really deserving of the "Pro" monicker? Not really IMO, but there's your 3 sizes.

 

[Bodhitree]

It would be insanely dumb for apple to release a game console. Compared to the base M1 Mac Mini, the Xbox and PS5 have more+faster storage, more+faster RAM, a larger die for the main SoC, beefy cooling and power delivery solutions, come with a controller, have a disk drive, and sell for less than the Mac Mini.

Why would apple ever make a $500 16GB/1TB game console with GPU power more like the M1 Max, when they can use every M1 they can make in devices that cost less to build and sell for a higher price?

It's not a risk, it's a bad business move. Apple lives on huge margins, why would the enter a low to no margin like video game consoles when they already own as much of the gaming market as Sony or Microsoft just by selling much higher margin iPhones and iPads?

A games console doesn‘t have to compete with Xbox Series X or PlayStation 5 to be successful, the Switch and the Wii were for their time significantly underpowered.

What Apple thrives on is unifying device categories. In the Apple TV they have one of the most expensive streaming boxes which struggles to justify its price compared to a Firestick or a Chromecast. By adding an M1 they could expand its range, without changing the price much, and have an entry into new markets. Makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[Basic75]

The iPad Pro puzzled me. For some reason, Apple decided to put an M1 inside.

The A12X and A12Z in previous iPad Pros had a 4+4 processor core setup. For this generation, did you expect Apple to create a second chip next to the M1 with a 4+4 layout? What differences would there be?

 

[ascender]

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying OP? We're in the middle of the transition to Apple Silicon and pretty much every new product that's been released with the M1 chip in it has been regarded as a success.

As we're mid-transition, there's still some Intel products available which makes sense. Besides, can you imagine the uproar from users who need Intel machines if Apple had just withdrawn them all from sale the minute the M1 MacBook Air launched?

You may not need or see the need for different models of iPads, but they exist to cover different needs (not to mention budgets). The fact there's choices in the product lines is a good thing right?

If I were Apple's CEO and had the M1, I would be truly excited about the possibilities and how it could really revolutionize the line-up. Tim Cook did nothing of that. He gave customers what they wanted and was as conservative as possible in respect to the line-up. Perhaps this is the reason why he is the CEO and I am not. But I just think what Steve Jobs would have done if he had the M1.

I don't understand that paragraph - look at the reviews for the new MacBook Pros to see just how revolutionary they have been in terms of power & performance and how much users love them.

Nobody knows how the "big" things would have panned out were Steve Jobs still the CEO - I think we'd still have ended up where are are now with the transition to the M1 as that's clearly the company strategy. The only thing I would say about Jobs is that perhaps fiascos like the butterfly keyboard would have been nipped in the bud much more quickly, but I don't know what you think he would have done differently with the chip transition?

 

[boak]

iPhone SE, iPhone mini, iPhone, iPhone Pro, iPhone Pro Max

iPad, iPad mini, iPad Air, 11-inch iPad Pro, 12.9-inch iPad Pro

5 variations of each. I suppose Tim Cook wins here.

Not really. MacBook Air had 2 sizes. MacBook Pro had 3.

 

[boak]

Apple’s line-up is completely fine. It’s just the marketing/names that are a little off, especially the 13-in MBP.

• Entry/Mid/High
• iPhone SE/iPhone (mini)/iPhone Pro (Max)
• iPad/iPad mini, Air/iPad Pro
• MacBook Air/13-in MacBook Pro/MacBook Pro
• AirPods 2/AirPods 3/AirPods Pro
• Series 3/SE/Series 7

 

[skaertus]

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying OP? We're in the middle of the transition to Apple Silicon and pretty much every new product that's been released with the M1 chip in it has been regarded as a success.

As we're mid-transition, there's still some Intel products available which makes sense. Besides, can you imagine the uproar from users who need Intel machines if Apple had just withdrawn them all from sale the minute the M1 MacBook Air launched?

You may not need or see the need for different models of iPads, but they exist to cover different needs (not to mention budgets). The fact there's choices in the product lines is a good thing right?



I don't understand that paragraph - look at the reviews for the new MacBook Pros to see just how revolutionary they have been in terms of power & performance and how much users love them.

Nobody knows how the "big" things would have panned out were Steve Jobs still the CEO - I think we'd still have ended up where are are now with the transition to the M1 as that's clearly the company strategy. The only thing I would say about Jobs is that perhaps fiascos like the butterfly keyboard would have been nipped in the bud much more quickly, but I don't know what you think he would have done differently with the chip transition?

I am sure that the products are a commercial success, and that they have helped Apple reach a $3 trillion market cap. This is not the point.

I just have a personal feeling, which may or may not be shared by others, that the structure of the products line-up did not change after the transition to M1. Just look:

MacBook Air ------------------------------> M1 MacBook Air
Low-end 13-inch MacBook Pro ----------> M1 MacBook Pro
High-end 13-inch MacBook Pro ---------> 14-inch M1 Pro/Max MacBook Pro
16-inch MacBook Pro --------------------> 16-inch M1 Pro/Max MacBook Pro
Low-end Mac mini ------------------------> M1 Mac Mini
High-end Mac mini -----------------------> Yet to be released
21.5-inch iMac ----------------------------> 24-inch M1 iMac
27-inch iMac ------------------------------> Yet to be released
Mac Pro ------------------------------------> Yet to be released

So far, the products are evolutionary, not revolutionary as the transition to M1 might allow. Apple just made a beefed-up version of each product. It did not create a new product line.

Some customers went nuts about the new MacBook Pro. Apple just gave users what they wanted. That is great but not revolutionary. The MacBook Pro is a great laptop, but it looks like many others. It has the M1 Pro/Max, which is great, and unique to Apple. MiniLED, ProMotion, great sound system: everything is fine but nothing out of the expected.

I hope it changes in the future.

Apple could make a very thin and light laptop with 5G capability. Apple will eventually sort out issues with Qualcomm. Why can't it fight fiercely with Epic, Samsung, and even the FBI, to protect its "values" (not its money), but will not face Qualcomm?

Apple could make a 16-inch MacBook Air. An 18-inch MacBook Pro. A convertible. Something different instead of keeping the very same line-up and beefing it up.

Tim Cook's Apple did not take any risks in this respect, did not shake up things. Played safe.

During Tim Cook's tenure, other companies tried and made mistakes in respect to their computers. But at least they tried. Microsoft released the Surface Pro, the Surface Book, the Surface Studio, and the alcantara Surface Laptop. ASUS made dual-screen laptops. LG made its Gram line of extremely thin-and-light laptops of varied sizes. Some of these products were a fiasco, but some were successful. At least these companies are not playing safe.

Tim Cook's boldest moves were to release the retina MacBook Pros and the cylindrical Mac Pro. Both of which were probably designed during Steve Jobs' era. Jobs took a lot of risks during his time: the iMac, the MacBook Air, the Mac mini, the Mac Cube. Those computers were different from everything else that came before them and really left the past behind.

Tim Cook's Apple does not shake up the line-up not even when it has the best and most capable processor in the industry. What happened to the whole Apple's "Think Different" philosophy? That for me is disappointing.

 

[leman]

I think it is fairly clear that Apple is taking a fairly conservative approach to this transition, which makes a lot of sense to me. M1 itself is a very "safe" product, being a straightforward derivation of A14 and built on the same technological basis as the previous iPad Pro chips (if it were not in a Mac, it would be called A14X). And it is clearly a mobile-first chip, which is still visible in the beefier M1 Pro/Max — display limitations, conservative clocking, PCI-e limitations etc. Same goes for the initial Air/13" Pro offerings, they are just transitional products used to probe the waters without taking too many risks.

I am quite sure that there will be more changes going forward. As M-series mature, we are likely to see new technologies that will make them more scalable for desktop applications, and we will see new chassis options that take the advantage of these new chips (just like the new 14" and 16" models do).

As to the rest — others have already pointed out that scarcity of supply calls to hard choices. For example, it is likely that the "bigger" M1 Pro/Max mini has been ready for a while, but there are simply not enough chips to fill in the demand. It makes more sense to focus on one product and try to build the supply in the meantime.

 

[boak]

I am sure that the products are a commercial success, and that they have helped Apple reach a $3 trillion market cap. This is not the point.

I just have a personal feeling, which may or may not be shared by others, that the structure of the products line-up did not change after the transition to M1. Just look:

MacBook Air ------------------------------> M1 MacBook Air
Low-end 13-inch MacBook Pro ----------> M1 MacBook Pro
High-end 13-inch MacBook Pro ---------> 14-inch M1 Pro/Max MacBook Pro
16-inch MacBook Pro --------------------> 16-inch M1 Pro/Max MacBook Pro
Low-end Mac mini ------------------------> M1 Mac Mini
High-end Mac mini -----------------------> Yet to be released
21.5-inch iMac ----------------------------> 24-inch M1 iMac
27-inch iMac ------------------------------> Yet to be released
Mac Pro ------------------------------------> Yet to be released

So far, the products are evolutionary, not revolutionary as the transition to M1 might allow. Apple just made a beefed-up version of each product. It did not create a new product line.

Some customers went nuts about the new MacBook Pro. Apple just gave users what they wanted. That is great but not revolutionary. The MacBook Pro is a great laptop, but it looks like many others. It has the M1 Pro/Max, which is great, and unique to Apple. MiniLED, ProMotion, great sound system: everything is fine but nothing out of the expected.

I hope it changes in the future.

Apple could make a very thin and light laptop with 5G capability. Apple will eventually sort out issues with Qualcomm. Why can't it fight fiercely with Epic, Samsung, and even the FBI, to protect its "values" (not its money), but will not face Qualcomm?

Apple could make a 16-inch MacBook Air. An 18-inch MacBook Pro. A convertible. Something different instead of keeping the very same line-up and beefing it up.

Tim Cook's Apple did not take any risks in this respect, did not shake up things. Played safe.

During Tim Cook's tenure, other companies tried and made mistakes in respect to their computers. But at least they tried. Microsoft released the Surface Pro, the Surface Book, the Surface Studio, and the alcantara Surface Laptop. ASUS made dual-screen laptops. LG made its Gram line of extremely thin-and-light laptops of varied sizes. Some of these products were a fiasco, but some were successful. At least these companies are not playing safe.

Tim Cook's boldest moves were to release the retina MacBook Pros and the cylindrical Mac Pro. Both of which were probably designed during Steve Jobs' era. Jobs took a lot of risks during his time: the iMac, the MacBook Air, the Mac mini, the Mac Cube. Those computers were different from everything else that came before them and really left the past behind.

Tim Cook's Apple does not shake up the line-up not even when it has the best and most capable processor in the industry. What happened to the whole Apple's "Think Different" philosophy? That for me is disappointing.

All I hear is “we need change for change’s sake”. Laptops and desktops are very mature products, you can’t revolutionise them much. Apple has stated many times that they’re not keen in comvertibles.

Have you considered the AR glasses powered by maybe M1 as the revolutionary product you’re seeking from Apple Silicon?

 

[NewUsername]

I think the iPad Pro having an M1 chip isn’t strange at all, but it’s simply a misunderstanding. Essentially, the M1 is the A14X. So when the iPad Pro went from the A12Z (which was virtually identical to the A12X) to the M1, it basically moved from an A12X to an A14X.

It is true that the Apple TV moved from an A10X to an A12 instead of an A12X, but that’s a different story.

 

[ascender]

All of this is just the first step in the transition though.

I think it would be good to see if Apple could push the boundaries with laptops like some other companies are doing, but I think their core lines are well established, to the point where its always going to be evolution rather than evolution.

 

[Bodhitree]

I think it is fairly clear that Apple is taking a fairly conservative approach to this transition, which makes a lot of sense to me. M1 itself is a very "safe" product, being a straightforward derivation of A14 and built on the same technological basis as the previous iPad Pro chips (if it were not in a Mac, it would be called A14X).

In some ways its conservative but in others it is anything but. A system-on-a-chip with several specialised processors, their own GPU and unified memory architecture is a whole series of big steps, seen from a personal computing perspective. The fact that they’ve managed to execute on it is very impressive, and they have done well to build on the pieces they already had.

They are now in a position to pursue their own goals with complete architectural freedom. Of course their competitors have not been sitting still, and while M1 compared well versus Intel’s 10th generation chips, the new 12th generation are a big step forward. It will be interesting to see how the M2 shapes up.

 

[leman]

In some ways its conservative but in others it is anything but. A system-on-a-chip with several specialised processors, their own GPU and unified memory architecture is a whole series of big steps, seen from a personal computing perspective. The fact that they’ve managed to execute on it is very impressive, and they have done well to build on the pieces they already had.

They are now in a position to pursue their own goals with complete architectural freedom. Of course their competitors have not been sitting still, and while M1 compared well versus Intel’s 10th generation chips, the new 12th generation are a big step forward. It will be interesting to see how the M2 shapes up.

Of course, to all of these. What I mean with ”conservative” is that there is nothing new in M1 that Apple didn’t already have in 2018 with A12X (maybe more PCIe lanes + Thunderbolt). I am sure we will see more significant changes going forward.

 

[satcomer]

What people even here don't seem to understand the iMac Pro was stop gap to 2019 Mac Pro! They even said it during a audio talk in front of crowd! So there will not be a new iMac Pro just a 27 inch 5K version with Max chip option!

 

[leman]

What people even here don't seem to understand the iMac Pro was stop gap to 2019 Mac Pro! They even said it during a audio talk in front of crowd! So there will not be a new iMac Pro just a 27 inch 5K version with Max chip option!

They still might call it "iMac Pro" though, no?

 

[Silverstring]

When Apple started making its own chips, I thought cellular connectivity in Macs would be a given. I was wrong. I cannot understand why Apple would not provide 5G on the MacBook Pros, but the fact is that it is not available not even as an upgrade.

Attachment is the root of suffering.

There are rumours about Apple keeping the MacBook Air and the low-end MacBook Pro as separate lines of products. This makes zero sense for me, and it a testament of Apple's reluctance to change its line-up.

Apple targets the mass market.

If I were Apple's CEO and had the M1, I would be truly excited about the possibilities and how it could really revolutionize the line-up. Tim Cook did nothing of that. He gave customers what they wanted and was as conservative as possible in respect to the line-up. Perhaps this is the reason why he is the CEO and I am not.

Nailed it.

This is not to say I am happy with Apple's decisions, either (I'd love cellular on an Apple laptop, for one). Just an acknowledgement that—on the basis of what CEOs are evaluated on, market performance and not satisfying niche audience wishlists—he's killing it. Plus, I doubt highly that Cook makes ANY direct decision about any product the way Jobs was known to.

But I just think what Steve Jobs would have done if he had the M1.

Maybe.

Still, I tend to think that people look back on the Jobs era with Rose-colored nostalgia glasses when it comes to these types of decisions.

This is the man that made the iPhone only available on Cingular to start, and was famously against the App Store before it launched. Jobs frequently was in favor of simplified/limited offerings that gave users a narrow set of choices. I don't think the current era of narrow choices is really that different.

 

[usagora]

Steve Jobs would have done the same thing, because that's what he did in the past.

Of course, none of us know for sure what Steve Jobs would've done if he were still the CEO, but I do grow tired of people constantly comparing Tim to him as if he's the infallible standard. Lots of rosy retrospection going on here (not from you, but others).

 

[satcomer]

They still might call it "iMac Pro" though, no?

NO! They name is dead with Mac Pro now that might be resigned a little smaller!

 

[leman]

NO! They name is dead with Mac Pro now that might be resigned a little smaller!

What makes you so sure? I am just genuinely curious. I mean, "iMac Pro" makes perfect sense in Apple's lineup along the dichotomy "consumer hardware" vs. "prosumer hardware", "MacBook" vs. "MacBook Pro", "M1" vs. "M1 Pro" etc. We could also get a "Mac Pro Mini", who knows

 

[thenewperson]

They still might call it "iMac Pro" though, no?

Yeah if a 2x M1 Max config makes into an iMac and they don't call it an iMac Pro I'd be surprised.

(or even the M1 Pro or Max really)