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Detektiv-Pinky

macrumors 6502a
Feb 25, 2006
848
192
Berlin, Germany
There is no way that those numbers are accurate. Life span of an ssd is an unknown quantity right now because they have not been in the market long enough to have complete field testing.

There are only a limited number of read & writes. Your mac with HFS+ journaling turned on is randomly hitting your disk. Increased activity results in increased disk access. If your OS tends to hit a particular storage space on the SSD over and over again it will eventually fail. once the storage spaces fail the drive will fail. A 64 GB SSD should not last any longer than a 128 GB SSD. I would almost assume the opposite because there is less chance for hitting the same storage space multiple time.

Their reasoning is flawed anyhow. The typical usage model of a harddrive does NOT consist of complete write/erase cycles. Drives fill up over time and as they do less free space remains to evenly distribute the following write cycles. In the worst case your drive is 99% full and all remaining write operations are constantly hitting 1% of the drive. This will speed up potential failure by a factor of 100.
 

Silentwave

macrumors 68000
May 26, 2006
1,615
50
So I haven't been in the forums here in a while, but this pictorial makes me glad to have ordered one of these babies this morning. Photo assignments for the paper with the MBP sandwiched between me and a D3, D300, and a few big lenses just doesn't help my back.
 

chameleon81

macrumors 6502
May 16, 2006
434
0
I think that's the point Apple is making when it says it gets 5 hours of battery life, as opposed to the 1-2 hours PC's are getting. There's alot of business customers who have to carry an extra battery just to get 3 hours.

i have an ibm x41 tablet it goes for 4-5 hours. I believe most of the business laptops with small screen should go above 3-4 with single battery. At least they claim so

i like the way it looks but it believe it is expensive :)
 

SkyTurnsRed

macrumors newbie
Jan 8, 2008
3
0
It is a mighty fine product to look at, no doubt about it. I'm just concerned like everyone else with the battery life. 5 hours + Apple advertising = probably more near 3 1/2.

I think the MacBook Air is definitely a step in the right direction, but it's not the result that is going to tide everyone over. Future products will be centered around many of the ideas that Air is bringing, ie. Remote Disk, multi touch, etc.
 

ImAlwaysRight

macrumors 6502a
MacBook Air vs. MacBook Pro????

Ummm, why does Engadget compare the Macbook Air to the MacBook Pro? That's like comparing the new AL iMac to a Mac Pro + Apple LCD instead of the previous white iMac. The size and specs would make the MacBook a much better comparison.

Speaking of which, I can't wait to see barefeats and others compare the performance of the MBA to the MB. :eek:

I thought paying $150 premium for the color Black was pretty outrageous in the MacBook. Yet I paid it anyway. Yeah, I was cool. And I did, and still do, think the color black looks better than white in the MacBook.

Paying a $1,000 premium (considering similar specs) to shave 2 pounds, make it thinner, loose firewire, no RAM/HD upgradability, and other inconveniences is just plain lunacy.
 

tjmrpm04

macrumors member
Nov 2, 2007
79
0
Richmond, VA
Why is it that whenever a new product is released everyone has to complain and moan about it's shortcomings? If the people who keep incessantly writing these negative posts are put off by a non replaceable battery or the lack of a built in optical drive or whatever, don't buy a MacBook Air. Please understand that Job's and Apple do not design each of their products for you and you alone. I like the portability of a smaller laptop but do like my built in optical drive and removable battery. Because of that I will probably stick with my nice little black MacBook. Does that mean that because I prefer those things that the MacBook Air is going to fail or is a piece of #*$&? No it just means that it is not for me. Since I mainly only listen to Audio on my iPod, I would love to use a Nano due to its small size, but I have an audio library of about 20+ GB therefore I have a G5.5 30GB iPod. That does not mean that the Nano is a piece of crap because they will not make one large enough for my needs. There is a trade off for everything and it makes me sick that people are bitching so much about the trade off's of the MBA. If you dont like it, you are not sitting there with a gun to your head being forced to spend your hard earned money on one.

On a similar note, I think it is pretty impressive that in less than a year we have gotten, the iPhone, iTouch, a new OS, new MacPro's, the update for :apple:Tv, iTunes Movie Rental (you can argue that this is not a feat but to get all of the buy in they got from Hollywood is huge), Time Capsule, MacBook Air, and probably a slew of things that I forgot, all from one company is absolutely amazing. Almost each one of those things is a complete innovation in itself. I would challenge anyone to tell me what innovations HP or Dell or IBM have made that have had such an impact on the consumer technology market in the same time frame.

With all that being said, please understand that in terms of being a "Mac Geek", I am just a toddler and recent convert. I bought into the iPod concept with the 4th Gen iPod's, but I fought for a long time to stay away from the Mac. I got my first Mac about a year to a year and a half ago with my MacBook, and I only got that because I was having to design a network which would support both Mac's and PC's. But then I noticed that I was not using my PC as much. Then not at all as I installed Parallels and ran XP through my MacBook. So then I replaced my pc at home with the last of the non Aluminum iMac's (ticked me off when a little over a month later they came out with the new ones). Now at work I just added an iMac to my desk in place of any remaining hint of the PC world. Anyway, I am saying this because I am not a die hard Mac fan that would say that everything they release is pure gold because it is not. However, I do believe that they are one of the most innovative companies of our time and should be praised for all that they have accomplished in 201 days, not ridiculed because someone who reads a rumor forum is pissed because they did not do this or did not do that. If you want to have your voice heard, go get a job in Cupertino in the R&D division and stop your moaning.

Ok with that said, thank you all for listening as I have had a really horrible day and just experienced a moment of catharsis on this board.

Can't wait for MW2009. Who knows, maybe they will introduce iPort the first commercially available Teleporter, at that conference. But keep in mind that when the battery fails on the iPort, they will have to dispatch a band of Mac Genius' to your house to replace it and it will cost you ~$10,000 (is my comma in the right place?).

Have a great week.

Thom
 

bilboa

macrumors regular
Jan 16, 2008
213
1
something to keep in mind is that this thing supposedly will get five hours with everything turned on.

If you check the specs for a MacBook Pro Apple claims it gets up to 6 hours of battery life. How many MBP owners actually get 6 hours of battery life? I'm lucky if I get much over 2 hours with mine. When it was new, if I turned the screen brightness way down and did nothing CPU intensive it would get maybe 4 hours, but the battery life dropped pretty quickly. So I'd take the 5 hour battery life claim with a few grains of salt.
 

foobarbaz

macrumors 6502a
Nov 29, 2007
953
2,414
Their reasoning is flawed anyhow. The typical usage model of a harddrive does NOT consist of complete write/erase cycles. Drives fill up over time and as they do less free space remains to evenly distribute the following write cycles. In the worst case your drive is 99% full and all remaining write operations are constantly hitting 1% of the drive. This will speed up potential failure by a factor of 100.

That's only true if you never modify those 99% in those 50 years. Because every time you delete or change just a little of it, fresh cells will get back into the loop.
 

iRabbit

macrumors 6502
Jul 10, 2007
445
33
Long Island, NY
Can't wait for MW2009. Who knows, maybe they will introduce iPort the first commercially available Teleporter, at that conference. But keep in mind that when the battery fails on the iPort, they will have to dispatch a band of Mac Genius' to your house to replace it and it will cost you ~$10,000 (is my comma in the right place?).

Thom - You made me spit coffee - that was funny as hell! You do realize it's hard to look sophisticated sitting in a little cafe with you not-so-posh-anymore Macbook spitting coffee all over yourself, don't you? A very funny joke warning would be nice in the future ;)

And I agree with a lot of what you said. I started off a Windows Geek myself being on computers a long time, longer than most. I bought my first Mac in 1999 and just recently replaced the last Windows desktop PC in my home. Hubby's got a mac, I've got two, daughter's got two (just replaced her mac mini with a new one), and we all share a Macbook (but that is about to change! LOL)... there's but one lowly Windows laptop in the house that no one seems to want to use anymore.

While I know the Macbook Air isn't for me (I actually feel the Macbook is already quite portable), I'm anxiously awaiting to receiving the Modbook I ordered last week. That is MY dream come true. As for what Apple did this year, ya know, while the Air isn't for me, I'm impressed. It's VERY cool, and a lot of people don't realize how innovative. I also happen to be drooling over Time Capsule and the revamps to AppleTV... so I see other iToys in my near future. :D

Hope the rest of your day is better ;)
 

Padriac

macrumors regular
Sep 29, 2006
200
45
Los Angeles, CA
But some of the MBA competitors in the "super thin" market barely get the same battery life as a MBA even WITH a 2nd battery (or with an extremely bulkier one... like the Dell)
 

patmcfar8

macrumors member
May 16, 2003
32
0
Reno, NV
Why is it that whenever a new product is released everyone has to complain and moan about it's shortcomings? If the people who keep incessantly writing these negative posts are put off by a non replaceable battery or the lack of a built in optical drive or whatever, don't buy a MacBook Air. Please understand that Job's and Apple do not design each of their products for you and you alone. I like the portability of a smaller laptop but do like my built in optical drive and removable battery. Because of that I will probably stick with my nice little black MacBook. Does that mean that because I prefer those things that the MacBook Air is going to fail or is a piece of #*$&? No it just means that it is not for me. Since I mainly only listen to Audio on my iPod, I would love to use a Nano due to its small size, but I have an audio library of about 20+ GB therefore I have a G5.5 30GB iPod. That does not mean that the Nano is a piece of crap because they will not make one large enough for my needs. There is a trade off for everything and it makes me sick that people are bitching so much about the trade off's of the MBA. If you dont like it, you are not sitting there with a gun to your head being forced to spend your hard earned money on one.

On a similar note, I think it is pretty impressive that in less than a year we have gotten, the iPhone, iTouch, a new OS, new MacPro's, the update for :apple:Tv, iTunes Movie Rental (you can argue that this is not a feat but to get all of the buy in they got from Hollywood is huge), Time Capsule, MacBook Air, and probably a slew of things that I forgot, all from one company is absolutely amazing. Almost each one of those things is a complete innovation in itself. I would challenge anyone to tell me what innovations HP or Dell or IBM have made that have had such an impact on the consumer technology market in the same time frame.

With all that being said, please understand that in terms of being a "Mac Geek", I am just a toddler and recent convert. I bought into the iPod concept with the 4th Gen iPod's, but I fought for a long time to stay away from the Mac. I got my first Mac about a year to a year and a half ago with my MacBook, and I only got that because I was having to design a network which would support both Mac's and PC's. But then I noticed that I was not using my PC as much. Then not at all as I installed Parallels and ran XP through my MacBook. So then I replaced my pc at home with the last of the non Aluminum iMac's (ticked me off when a little over a month later they came out with the new ones). Now at work I just added an iMac to my desk in place of any remaining hint of the PC world. Anyway, I am saying this because I am not a die hard Mac fan that would say that everything they release is pure gold because it is not. However, I do believe that they are one of the most innovative companies of our time and should be praised for all that they have accomplished in 201 days, not ridiculed because someone who reads a rumor forum is pissed because they did not do this or did not do that. If you want to have your voice heard, go get a job in Cupertino in the R&D division and stop your moaning.

Ok with that said, thank you all for listening as I have had a really horrible day and just experienced a moment of catharsis on this board.

Can't wait for MW2009. Who knows, maybe they will introduce iPort the first commercially available Teleporter, at that conference. But keep in mind that when the battery fails on the iPort, they will have to dispatch a band of Mac Genius' to your house to replace it and it will cost you ~$10,000 (is my comma in the right place?).

Have a great week.

Thom

Ha! Thank you for that Thom. I've been a Mac fan for most of the last 25 years or so... and I'm always amazed at how Mac people will complain ad nauseam about new products when they don't neatly fit into each individual users needs. My favorite recent example was the unveiling of the original iPod. That thing got skewered around here... and that seemed to have worked out pretty well for everyone. ;)
 

tjmrpm04

macrumors member
Nov 2, 2007
79
0
Richmond, VA
Thom - You made me spit coffee - that was funny as hell! You do realize it's hard to look sophisticated sitting in a little cafe with you not-so-posh-anymore Macbook spitting coffee all over yourself, don't you? A very funny joke warning would be nice in the future ;)

Thanks Rabbit. I will be here all week. Tip your bartenders, waitresses and barista's well.


I had a long talk with my wife last night about doing away with our Fios TV and simply replacing the DVR's with a couple Apple TV's and serving up our TV Viewing through those. I am thinking that is in our future so I too was drooling. As for Time Capsule, I was at first thinking "Eh a 500 GB external drive that is 2x as expensive as a USB2.0 or Firewire version. But then got to thinking about the addition of the Airport Base Station and was like....Hmmmmm....Right now I have two routers, two usb drives (250gb and 500gb) and a slew of cables on my desk..... That would cut down on the clutter. If only Steve would release the iJitter allowing me the ability to Wirelessly backup my data while brewing a piping hot cup of espresso. Only then will I finally be in Utopia.

Anyway, hope you have a great cup of Joe. Hopefully you didn't have cream and sugar (Coffee is not too bad for a MacBook given it is not laden with Cream and Sugar!)

Take care iHop
 

tartaruga

macrumors newbie
Dec 6, 2006
13
0
Florida
If you check the specs for a MacBook Pro Apple claims it gets up to 6 hours of battery life. How many MBP owners actually get 6 hours of battery life? I'm lucky if I get much over 2 hours with mine. When it was new, if I turned the screen brightness way down and did nothing CPU intensive it would get maybe 4 hours, but the battery life dropped pretty quickly. So I'd take the 5 hour battery life claim with a few grains of salt.

You'll notice I hedged my comments when I said we'll need to wait and see what the real world performance is. My experience has been that I get more than advertised (I don't have a MBP--PB G4 right now). Your experience has clearly been different. I just think we need to stay away from broad, vehement pronouncements. Frankly, if it gets anywhere near 5 hours, that would be pretty great.
 

EagerDragon

macrumors 68020
Jun 27, 2006
2,098
0
MA, USA



134017-mbavsmbp_300.png


- MacBook Air vs MacBook Pro photos - side by side.
- The MacBook Air battery will be a $129 replacement, requiring Apple to replace it.
- Walt Mossberg (video) first impressions of MacBook Air
- More high quality photos: Appleinsider, ThinkSecret
- How long will a SSD drive last? - up to 51 years for a 64GB SSD and 12.9 years for 160GB SSD, longer than the average replacement cycle for storage.
- Multitouch video demo and control panel screenshots
- Guided Tour is available on Apple.com

Article Link

Sorry but this does not sound right. The size of the drive should have nothing to do with it.

Some areas of a disk are written more offten than others, and some areas may never get written over.

How many times a single byte can be written over before it fails to hold a value?
That is the worst case scenario and we then take it from there to a better value by projecting that only 16% (pick a number) or so of the drive would be subject to that level of activity. Then add to that the ability to move a sector and you get better numbers. But you have to start with the worst case, so the size of the drive should not be a main consideration. Most people dont write into a drive from one end to another and start again, the writes are not that distributed or random.

Sorry
 

tjmrpm04

macrumors member
Nov 2, 2007
79
0
Richmond, VA
Ha! Thank you for that Thom. I've been a Mac fan for most of the last 25 years or so... and I'm always amazed at how Mac people will complain ad nauseam about new products when they don't neatly fit into each individual users needs. My favorite recent example was the unveiling of the original iPod. That thing got skewered around here... and that seemed to have worked out pretty well for everyone. ;)


Yeah I hear they did ok with that one. But who am I kidding, as soon as Zune v3.0 comes out I will run out and get one.........


.... Oh by one I mean a new iPod (by then I am sure to have run over my current one just like I did with my 4th Gen).

Peace out! (I have allways wanted to say that. Because when the kids say it, they seem so cool.)

Thom
 

pimentoLoaf

macrumors 68010
Dec 30, 2001
2,003
32
The SimCity Deli
I'm waiting for the MacAir version that slides into an thicker wide-screen Cinema Display for recharging -- and has a panel to allow me to replace the battery myself. :D
 

God^Cent

macrumors member
Jul 27, 2007
63
0
51 Years on the SSD Drive makes its price well worth it! GJ Apple on making me go WoW.
 

inmyname

macrumors newbie
Jan 12, 2008
12
0
Why is there so much whining?

Okay, for the people on here who don't understand why there are so many posts from people who are not impressed by the mac Air..

Apple's loyal fan base of users generally like to see the newest products from apple as advancement on what had been available before, and worthy of their praise and money, not least because it helps them feel superior to those who still use windows computers.

Unfortunately, the Air does not in many cases, in the opinions of many, represent much of an advancement, and perhaps does not seem to justify the price premium that apple want to charge. This sort of thing gives ammunition to the windows users who like to point out time and time again that the mac fanboys and girls are paying over the odds for style over substance.

Especially when anyone can come up with a pretty extensive list of the shortcomings of the new model, and compare it unfavourably to not just the old models by the same brand, but models from competing brands.

When apple produces something like this and tries to present it as a premium product by its price tag, we feel that it diminishes the brand, and so makes our endorsement of the brand seem foolish.

What apple needs to do in order to rescue its own brand reputation (in the opinions of many of its detractors) is refresh the macbook and macbookpros significantly with real hardware advancements, that at least keep up with what other premium brands are selling.
 

brownieguy19

macrumors regular
Jun 30, 2007
160
0
The future of Apple portables...?

I think an issue to be seen here is the fact this notebook was designed for those on the go...correct?

What about extra batteries? I don't think this is a good model due to the fact there are professionals who are going to want to take their portables with them and need to have enough power, without electricity.
 
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