Most reliable 17" MacBook Pro 2007-2011?

[ninikittylover]

I am looking for a 17" MacBook Pro, reliable, that runs Snow Leopard.

I have a piece of software that I use regularly along with a paid up version of Photoshop that works for me (don't need updates or subscribe for life to Adobe) that won't run on anything higher than Snow Leopard. I currently use a 2011 iMac for just this and it works great, but I would like a big screen laptop to use it on so I can move around at home and work in different rooms. I have ran it in a virtual machine on a modern Mac but it is slow. I can even run it on an old 15" 2006 MacBook Pro I have but the backlight is fading. I have even screen shared from the iMac to my modern Mac but it has a bit of lag drawing.

An option is spending $2,500 on a new 16" MacBook Pro and running Snow Leopard as a virtual machine, but as they seem to be going on eBay for $150 I thought I'd have a try first with an old 17". I know a lot have the graphic card problems, what about 2009 ones? Would have to be led backlit as the older backlights are dull being over 15 years old.

 

[theMarble]

The most reliable 17” models are the Late 2006, Early 2009 and Mid 2009.

All 2007, 2008 and 2011 models suffer from severe GPU failure. The 2007/2008’s GPU can be replaced with a newer revision GPU chip which never fails, creating a reliable machine. This does require hundreds of dollars worth of equipment and quite a lot of experience with BGA reworking.

With the 2011’s, there is no good solution. You can either use a software solution, which doesn’t fully disable the GPU, possibly causing it to still die, or by using a hardware solution which does kill the GPU, but at the cost of all external display support. The GPU killer alone also costs more than double what the machine is worth.

The Mid 2010 does have a semi-GPU failure, due to an IC near the chip failing, but AFAIK can be fixed.

 

[B S Magnet]

I am looking for a 17" MacBook Pro, reliable, that runs Snow Leopard.

Most everything @theMarble said is spot-on.

For the 2007 and early 2008 aluminium variations, many of these failed GPUs were sent back by Apple to a supplier, to replace the faulty revision of the GPU with a corrected update of that GPU. For each of those repaired boards, the supplier affixed a circle-shaped “acid-green dot” sticker on the RAM bridge, next to the logic board’s bar code. These units are, in effect, “cured” of the faulty GPU problem for, basically, ever.

If buying one of the 2007 or early 2008 models used, in a sale which shows the system to be working OK, insist to look at that RAM bridge, which should be visible once the RAM plate on the bottom case is opened. Although there might be an outlier here or there without a green dot whose GPU was replaced, nine times of ten it will have a green dot. If not, and you buy a system which later has GPU failure, then you’ll need to shop for a replacement logic board online which is selling a green dot board.

This is what I did for the A1261 I picked up locally for next to nothing. I knew from the outset it was an original board with the pre-revised GPU. I bought a green dot logic board and swapped the board myself. The GPU on the new board is the revised version and it has worked flawlessly ever since. It runs both 10.6.8 and a dosdude1-patched 10.13.6. Running 10.6.8 on it is magnificent.

An option is spending $2,500 on a new 16" MacBook Pro and running Snow Leopard as a virtual machine, but as they seem to be going on eBay for $150 I thought I'd have a try first with an old 17". I know a lot have the graphic card problems, what about 2009 ones? Would have to be led backlit as the older backlights are dull being over 15 years old.

For Snow Leopard, if that’s your main plan for a 17-inch MBP, your sweet spot these days for “it just works” assurance is probably the mid-2009 model.

The advantage of this, over the 2006 model, is its 64-bit EFI and 64-bit, out-of-box functionality (introduced originally with the early 2008 model). It permits you a significantly higher RAM cap over the 2006, and it also shipped with an LED-backlit display exclusively. Replacement batteries for the unibody models are easier at this time to source, even though most of what’s out there nowadays are B-grade replacements (cf. A-grade Apple OEM batteries, which are no longer).

Note: You will need some kind of working battery for the MBP to run at its rated clock speed. This is the case for basically every intel Mac laptop. Without a working battery, the system will auto-downclock at boot time to 1.0GHz, making the system gruellingly slow to use.

 

[Snowlover]

You want the mid 2009 model with a good battery- it is led backlit- no graphics issues.

 

[Brian33]

An option is spending $2,500 on a new 16" MacBook Pro and running Snow Leopard as a virtual machine

Just letting you know -- I'm pretty sure this can't be done if the "new" MacBook Pro has an Apple silicon M-series processor. For an Apple-silicon Mac, the oldest macOS that can run as a guest OS in a VM is Monterey, even if you use Parallels. Other VM software for M-series Macs has the same restrictions.

System Requirements (be sure to read the footnotes):
https://www.parallels.com/products/desktop/resources/

Any macOS older than Monterey is only available with x86 instructions -- they've never been compiled for M-series ARM instructions. So macOS would have to be run in an emulator, and there's not one available that could run macOS x86.

 

[Boyd01]

I am still on Intel myself, so no idea of how well this works (if at all). But, apparently, some people are using QEMU to run Snow Leopard on Apple Silicon. Looks complicated.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/install-snow-leopard-in-qemu-utm-and-vmware-fusion.2425916/

 

[wonderings]

If it was strictly for Photoshop I would recommend looking at Affinity Photo to replace CS6 Photoshop. You get the benefits of being able to use the latest hardware as well as software optimized to use that, and less bloat then what Photoshop has built up over the years. Not sure what other software you are using so that might hold you back still. You definitely cannot run any version of MacOS virtually that would not install natively on an Apple Silicon computer.

 

[Amethyst1]

The issues with 17" MBPs are:

• 2006 models can be subject to an overheating/dying ATI GPU (my Late 2006 was fine though)
• 2007 and 2008 models are widely affected by defective NVIDIA GPUs (fixable: GPU needs to be replaced)
• 2010 models are affected by crashes due to a defective capacitor (fixable: capacitor needs to be replaced)
• 2011 models are widely affected by defective AMD GPUs (not fixable: you can just disable the AMD GPU)

 

[B S Magnet]

Just letting you know -- I'm pretty sure this can't be done if the "new" MacBook Pro has an Apple silicon M-series processor. For an Apple-silicon Mac, the oldest macOS that can run as a guest OS in a VM is Monterey, even if you use Parallels. Other VM software for M-series Macs has the same restrictions.

Big Sur is the first macOS release to boot on Silicon Macs.

The Mac mini M1 shipped with Big Sur 11.0.1 in November 2020.

 

[Brian33]

Big Sur is the first macOS release to boot on Silicon Macs.

The Mac mini M1 shipped with Big Sur 11.0.1 in November 2020.

True.

At least with Parallels, the oldest macOS you can virtualize as a guest on an M-series Mac is Monterey (macOS 12), according to their System Requirements page.

I could well be wrong, but I think the same Monterey-or-later guest requirement is true with other "lightweight virtualization" products -- and there are many now that Apple has added virtualization features to the OS itself (e.g., VirtualBuddy, Viable from eclecticlight.co , Parallels and VMWare Fusion). But I haven't gone to each to check the Apple silicon requirements.

From https://eclecticlight.co/2024/01/11/how-virtualisation-came-to-apple-silicon-macs/:

Lightweight virtualisation of macOS and Linux on Apple silicon was launched with limited support for Monterey at WWDC 2022 in Benjamin Poulain’s presentation explaining how simple it is to implement.

I think all the usual virtualization products, when running on Apple silicon machines, use Apple's built-in virtualization. That's why I think they require Monterey or later as the guest OS. (EDIT: I shouldn't say that -- I'm not very familiar with QEMU and UTM and how they work!)

 

[eyoungren]

I think the one I have is the A1150, so that'd be Early 2006. It can't go any higher than Snow Leopard in any case. Adobe CS4 is what I run on it, although CS5 and CS6 are installed. I think Office 2016 runs on it as well. I'd have to check the version.

2GB ram max though, just like the PowerBook G4s.

 

[rampancy]

The most reliable 17” models are the Late 2006, Early 2009 and Mid 2009...

Sorry I'm late to the party, but here's another post seconding what theMarble said. Stay away, stay far away from anything with Nvidia graphics.

While Amethyst1 would disagree with me, I'd actually say that when it comes to stock Apple hardware the 17" Core 2 Duos with Radeon X1600 graphics are the most reliable, at least in my own experience. They do have a tendency to run rather hot, so be prepared to either enact various OS-tweaks to reduce GPU load and/or replace the thermal paste. Also, they use older CCFL backlights.

Other than that, I honestly think the best choice would be a 2008 MBP with an Nvidia GPU that's been replaced with a non-defective chip by the illustrious dosdude1.

For the 2007 and early 2008 aluminium variations, many of these failed GPUs were sent back by Apple to a supplier, to replace the faulty revision of the GPU with a corrected update of that GPU. For each of those repaired boards, the supplier affixed a circle-shaped “acid-green dot” sticker on the RAM bridge, next to the logic board’s bar code. These units are, in effect, “cured” of the faulty GPU problem for, basically, ever.

From my own experience with a "green dot" 2008 15" MBP, the green dot sticker isn't a 100% guarantee that a given machine will be bullet proof; one of two green dot machines that I have died from GPU failure several months after I bought it. Though I suspect that may have been more due to excessive heating over time, as the non-unibody MacBook Pro chassis wasn't great for thermal dissipation.

 

[theMarble]

Stay away, stay far away from anything with Nvidia graphics.

The 2009 MBPs all used GeForce 9 series chips, and for the most part they were very reliable. There were a couple issues with the 9400M when they launched, however it turned out to be a driver issue rather than a physical chip fault like the GeForce 8 series used in the 2007/2008 pre-unibody MBPs.

I'd actually say that when it comes to stock Apple hardware the 17" Core 2 Duos with Radeon X1600 graphics are the most reliable, at least in my own experience.

It was mostly the X1600's used in the 1,1 (A1150/A1151) MBP that had graphical issues. The Late 2006 (A1211/A1212) MBPs with the X1600 didn't have any issues AFAIK.

 

[B S Magnet]

Sorry I'm late to the party, but here's another post seconding what theMarble said. Stay away, stay far away from anything with Nvidia graphics.

So the 2011 Radeons are… OK…? /s

Also, they use older CCFL backlights.

I find this to be a longtime net-negative, unless the CCFL and assembly are factory-fresh and have seen either very few or zero hours of use.

This is why I replaced the CCFL in my old, clamshell iBook G3 with an LED kit.

From my own experience with a "green dot" 2008 15" MBP, the green dot sticker isn't a 100% guarantee that a given machine will be bullet proof; one of two green dot machines that I have died from GPU failure several months after I bought it.

You’re correct: it’s not a guarantee.

But generally, it’s a fairly reliable indicator to be one of the boards repaired under Apple’s watch, as they ate just enough crow to commission and pay vendors to do that work — ostensibly to have enough spares on hand so long as AppleCare plans on the A1226/A1229/A1260/A1261s were still in effect and/or their GPU/logic board replacement programme was still active. That meant having some kind of supply on hand through at least part of 2012 (if not a little bit later for edge situations).

And for folks who live outside the U.S., picking up a repaired logic board may still be a more economical option over return-trip shipping to the U.S., plus labour and parts, so long as green-dot stock remains in market circulation. For how much longer that might be is unclear, but I imagine we’re approaching the end of that arc.

In my case, the replacement board was a minor upgrade to the 2.6GHz variant over the 2.5GHz to have shipped in my laptop.

Though I suspect that may have been more due to excessive heating over time, as the non-unibody MacBook Pro chassis wasn't great for thermal dissipation.

I know.

And there are ways to improve that.

 

[Amethyst1]

So the 2011 Radeons are… OK…? /s

They are — from a distance of at least 20 metres 🤣

 

[theluggage]

So the 2011 Radeons are… OK…? /s

No.

Ok, so I did see the '/s' but this probably bears repeating: don't get the 2011 17" even if it has been "fixed" - the "fix" just kicks the can down the road for a few years.

(ISTR the fault was the GPU chip coming unsoldered due to thermal stress and the "fix" just replaced & resoldered it, didn't address the root cause)

I had an early 2011 17" and it failed after a few years & was repaired under the program, which kept it going until about 2018/19 when the fault recurred - still works with a hack to keep the GPU disabled, but not ideal.

I wasn't too dissatisified - got 7-8 years of good service out of it with a free, no-quibble repair, and it was dead easy to fit a 2.5" SSD which gave a huge performance boost - but sadly these machines aren't exactly "heirloom quality".

 

[B S Magnet]

They are — from a distance of at least 20 metres 🤣

That is no way to be talking trash about the child I adopted last month…

No.

Ok, so I did see the '/s' but this probably bears repeating: don't get the 2011 17" even if it has been "fixed" - the "fix" just kicks the can down the road for a few years.

Thanks. I’m typing this reply from an early 2011 15-inch MBP, post-removal of the power rail resistor to the Radeon GPU, carried out by the Real Mac Mods steps. Sure, I may only have the HD3000 iGPU, but for how little I paid for a basically pristine unit featuring an anti-glare display, I wouldn’t blame anyone for picking up a 17-inch 2011 for, well, next to nothing, and doing much the same.

Since I removed the resistor and locked in the GPU disable variable via Arch Linux USB boot, the laptop has been working quite magnificently.

I had an early 2011 17" and it failed after a few years & was repaired under the program, which kept it going until about 2018/19 when the fault recurred - still works with a hack to keep the GPU disabled, but not ideal.

I wasn't too dissatisified - got 7-8 years of good service out of it with a free, no-quibble repair, and it was dead easy to fit a 2.5" SSD which gave a huge performance boost - but sadly these machines aren't exactly "heirloom quality".

Well, you know you are always welcome to send your faltering, old 17-inch 2011 MBP to…

Big Spam Magnet
7650 South Yonge Mews
Bigcity, Canada M4M 4M4

 

[theluggage]

Well, you know you are always welcome to send your faltering, old 17-inch 2011 MBP to…

Sadly not worth the inter-continental shipping and - as you say - it still works without the GPU and will suffice if I suddenly need a laptop to take with me somewhere. I wouldn't pay money for one, or use it as a daily driver, though - and the OP was using Photoshop which probably benefits from a working GPU.

 

[B S Magnet]

Sadly not worth the inter-continental shipping and - as you say - it still works without the GPU and will suffice if I suddenly need a laptop to take with me somewhere. I wouldn't pay money for one, or use it as a daily driver, though - and the OP was using Photoshop which probably benefits from a working GPU.

A) As I do here from time to time, I was being facetious about your sending over a laptop; and
B) Photoshop on an HD 3000 works quite well and has been what I’ve used for years for high-res film scanning work.

As for, however, using an HD 3000 iGPU for video (and especially, ironically, HD video) editing, that’s probably a bit of a tall ask.

 

[Amethyst1]

That is no way to be talking trash about the child I adopted last month…

My comment was directed at the Radeon, not the MBP as a whole.

As for, however, using an HD 3000 iGPU for video (and especially, ironically, HD video) editing, that’s probably a bit of a tall ask.

ExpressCard or Thunderbolt eGPU to the rescue (depending on the version of macOS).

 

[B S Magnet]

My comment was directed at the Radeon, not the MBP as a whole.

Look, just because my child had impacting wisdom teeth doesn’t mean dentistry doesn’t work…

ExpressCard or Thunderbolt eGPU to the rescue (depending on the version of macOS).

For the 17-inch or pre-2009 15-inch, ExpressCard definitely offers many possibilities for improving the GPU woes.

As for the 2011 15-inch MBP, I’m still not sold on the kludge that is the iBoff mod.

This is not to disparage related form factor workarounds, like your brilliant discovery to get an eGPU to work with an early 2008 MacBook! But for me, I’d prefer not to have a bundle of wires dangling from the ODD slot or, if opening for doing maintenance, dealing with a spaghetti of ultra-delicate bodge wires. Both of these workarounds make me sort of, idk, anxious.

 

[Amethyst1]

But for me, I’d prefer not to have a bundle of wires dangling from the ODD slot or, if opening for doing maintenance, dealing with a spaghetti of ultra-delicate bodge wires.

Thunderbolt eGPU’s require none of that but I’ve not seen them used with OS X older than Mavericks. I gotta do some testing myself.

 

[B S Magnet]

Thunderbolt eGPU’s require none of that but I’ve not seen them used with OS X older than Mavericks. I gotta do some testing myself.

I don’t yet know whether a Thunderbolt eGPU solution works after removing the power rail resistor to the Radeon. Isn’t the thing which prevents using a modified 2011 15/17 from connecting to an external display the same thing which would preclude using Thunderbolt for anything display-related? (Sorry, I have barely used Thunderbolt for pretty much anything, ever, aside from the Thunderbolt-to-FW dongle.)

 

[Amethyst1]

Isn’t the thing which prevents using a modified 2011 15/17 from connecting to an external display the same thing which would preclude using Thunderbolt for anything display-related?

There are two DisplayPort streams (from the Radeon) and four PCIe lanes (from the CPU) going into the Thunderbolt controller on a 15"/17" 2011 MBP. The following diagram shows a slightly different setup but the point remains: DP and PCIe are piped into the TB controller.

With the Radeon out of the game, the ability to attach a display to the MBP directly or to a TB dock (in a daisy-chain) is lost because there are no DP streams to tap into (the HD3000 isn't wired up to the TB controller at all). But the PCIe lanes are still there, so any PCIe device (such as the TB-to-FW thingy) including an eGPU should™ still work.

 

[B S Magnet]

(the HD3000 isn't wired up to the TB controller at all)

OK. So how does a dual display setup on the 13-inch 2011s work? Is this an SPI-ROM-related difference?