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burgman

macrumors 68030
Sep 24, 2013
2,798
2,385
There is no privacy in this new world of ours.

None.
Dump the tech or <GASP> Facebook if this causes you, and others, such pain. We have made an informed choice over the last 20 years. Would you really be that bad off without Facebook and most other social sites?
 
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timeconsumer

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Aug 1, 2008
2,135
2,173
Portland
Out of respect for @timeconsumer 's thread, I'm bowing out here, but PM sent.
Thanks, I do think discussing Facebook is reasonable while on the topic of privacy. However, I was hoping to keep this thread on the discussion of privacy/data collection from the popular mobile operating systems (android and iOS). Since Facebook is an app and not an OS, you can completely choose not to have Facebook installed therefore eliminating the need to worry about Facebook's policies altogether. But, in order to use a smartphone you would likely choose between Android or iOS as those are the two most popular options.

So it's known that Apple is keeping all that similar data?
This is what I hoped by starting this thread, to discuss if anyone knew if Apple keeps similar data and/or if Apple offers the ability to view/delete whatever information they have.

I've looked around Apple's website in their privacy section and found a few things worth pointing out:

From: http://www.apple.com/privacy/approach-to-privacy/
Siri - Apple does store Siri and Dictation. The difference seems to me is that they do not directly associate it with your account but instead use a random identifier which can be reset at any time.
Maps - They appear to also use a random identifier that "resets itself frequently as you use the app."

From: http://www.apple.com/privacy/manage-your-privacy/
Frequent Locations - "It’s important to note that Frequent Locations remain on your device and are not sent to Apple, or even backed up in iTunes or iCloud."
Frequent Locations (opt-in) - "The one exception is if you opt in to improve Maps for yourself and other users, in which case we will occasionally collect your Frequent Locations but only retain this data in a purely anonymous form."

From: http://www.apple.com/privacy/privacy-policy/
"We also collect data in a form that does not, on its own, permit direct association with any specific individual."
"We may collect and store details of how you use our services, including search queries."
"With your explicit consent, we may collect data about how you use your device and applications in order to help app developers improve their apps."

With the above, it does appear that Apple is collecting very similar data on their users, you just can't view it because it doesn't seem like they associate it with your Apple account so they wouldn't be able to display it to you by logging in. Whereas the Google one does directly associate it to your account as you're able to login and view/delete it. So this makes me wonder if when I delete "My Activity" from Google, if I'm removing the direct association to my account but Google still keeps it on their side just unable to associate it back to me.
 
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willmtaylor

macrumors G4
Oct 31, 2009
10,314
8,198
Here(-ish)
Thanks, I do think discussing Facebook is reasonable while on the topic of privacy. However, I was hoping to keep this thread on the discussion of privacy/data collection from the popular mobile operating systems (android and iOS). Since Facebook is an app and not an OS, you can completely choose not to have Facebook installed therefore eliminating the need to worry about Facebook's policies altogether. But, in order to use a smartphone you would likely choose between Android or iOS as those are the two most popular options.


This is what I hoped by starting this thread, to discuss if anyone knew if Apple keeps similar data and/or if Apple offers the ability to view/delete whatever information they have.

I've looked around Apple's website in their privacy section and found a few things worth pointing out:

From: http://www.apple.com/privacy/approach-to-privacy/
Siri - Apple does store Siri and Dictation. The difference seems to me is that they do not directly associate it with your account but instead use a random identifier which can be reset at any time.
Maps - They appear to also use a random identifier that "resets itself frequently as you use the app."

From: http://www.apple.com/privacy/manage-your-privacy/
Frequent Locations - "It’s important to note that Frequent Locations remain on your device and are not sent to Apple, or even backed up in iTunes or iCloud."
Frequent Locations (opt-in) - "The one exception is if you opt in to improve Maps for yourself and other users, in which case we will occasionally collect your Frequent Locations but only retain this data in a purely anonymous form."

From: http://www.apple.com/privacy/privacy-policy/
"We also collect data in a form that does not, on its own, permit direct association with any specific individual."
"We may collect and store details of how you use our services, including search queries."
"With your explicit consent, we may collect data about how you use your device and applications in order to help app developers improve their apps."

With the above, it does appear that Apple is collecting very similar data on their users, you just can't view it because it doesn't seem like they associate it with your Apple account so they wouldn't be able to display it to you by logging in. Whereas the Google one does directly associate it to your account as you're able to login and view/delete it. So this makes me wonder if when I delete "My Activity" from Google, if I'm removing the direct association to my account but Google still keeps it on their side just unable to associate it back to me.
Bottom line:
  • It's in Apple's best interest to keep users' private information private, so they can sell more hardware and software.
  • It's in Google's best interest to keep users' private information for themselves, so that they can sell more ads.
 
Last edited:

timeconsumer

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Aug 1, 2008
2,135
2,173
Portland
Bottom line:
  • It's in Apple's best interest to keep users' private information private, so they can sell more hardware and software.
  • It's in Google's best interest to keep users' private information for themselves, so that they can sell more ads.
Yes, I think this summarizes it quite well. Well said.
 
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willmtaylor

macrumors G4
Oct 31, 2009
10,314
8,198
Here(-ish)
It's a FOSS app store.
Apologies for being vague; I'm just now getting my first cup of coffee.

Yes, I'm (vaguely) familiar with f-droid and FOSS apps, but my question twofold: isn't a large part of Google's appeal the software's "intelligence" and ability to share information? Secondly, why would one trust these apps with personal information more than Google?

(These are both sincere questions.)
 

lowendlinux

macrumors 603
Sep 24, 2014
5,460
6,788
Germany
Apologies for being vague; I'm just now getting my first cup of coffee.

Yes, I'm (vaguely) familiar with f-droid and FOSS apps, but my question twofold: isn't a large part of Google's appeal the software's "intelligence" and ability to share information? Secondly, why would one trust these apps with personal information more than Google?

(These are both sincere questions.)

I really don't know what Googles appeal is but the people that use f-droid googles information sharing is the problem. People buy Android handsets for a variety of reasons I'm sure for some it's Googles integration and for some it's the ability to run the software they want how they want it. Android handsets can be as appliance like as iPhone or as computer like as your laptop you get to choose.

Part of requirements of f-droid is that the app doesn't utilize things that are unnecessary to the operation of the app.
 
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willmtaylor

macrumors G4
Oct 31, 2009
10,314
8,198
Here(-ish)
I really don't know what Googles appeal is but the people that use f-droid googles information sharing is the problem. People buy Android handsets for a variety of reasons I'm sure for some it's Googles integration and for some it's the ability to run the software they want how they want it. Android handsets can be as appliance like as iPhone or as computer like as your laptop you get to choose.

Part of requirements of f-droid is that the app doesn't utilize things that are unnecessary to the operation of the app.
Interesting. Thanks for dropping some knowledge. I appreciate it.
 
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