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My beef with A10X
- Thread starter macduke
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Yes it is.
Apple could have called it a MB+, but they chose "Pro."
I have owned one MacBook, the 12" Retina, and three "Airs" over the years. They were all purchased with design features in mind and not because of the name. However, I will admit using a MB in public, say at a coffee shop, is a bit of a status symbol compared to a generic Windows machine. Also you might remember Apple always sent those Apple logo stickers to put on our car windows for the world to see (I never did BTW).
Yep marketing and we can't deny all of us are influenced by it, even the Apple haters do so because of marketing more than the actual quality of the products.
Is that what they were for?
I have been putting them on my hackintosh, Windows and Linux machines...
Y'all need to go outside and play. One one will ever have the last word on subjects like this.
When the original 12.9 pro model came out in 2015, rather SAME discussions and pointless threads were limitless.
People on here are so relentless to offer their opinion as gospel simply because they may work for such and such large X company , or that one person has experienced with X or Y.
What does iPad PRO mean to me? Its a major update to the original PRO 12.9. The differences are VERY noticeable to me.
But in my opinion and experience on it, to call it "PRO" is marketing TO ME..
why not call the iPhone the iPhone 7sPRO?
I mean you can literally run the same apps on the pro iPad you can with the iPhone..
When the original 12.9 pro model came out in 2015, rather SAME discussions and pointless threads were limitless.
People on here are so relentless to offer their opinion as gospel simply because they may work for such and such large X company , or that one person has experienced with X or Y.
What does iPad PRO mean to me? Its a major update to the original PRO 12.9. The differences are VERY noticeable to me.
But in my opinion and experience on it, to call it "PRO" is marketing TO ME..
why not call the iPhone the iPhone 7sPRO?
I mean you can literally run the same apps on the pro iPad you can with the iPhone.. 
Yes, how many? It is a valid, Pro tool for some, accept that. If it doesn't work for you, then sorry, but accept that it does for others.
You can do all the same workflows on other iPads or even iPhones as has been pointed out..
Note taking using a stylus doesn't change anything and certainly doesn't make it anymore or less professional than the other ipads.
Spins the merrygoround again...
Note taking using a stylus doesn't change anything and certainly doesn't make it anymore or less professional than the other ipads.
Spins the merrygoround again...
Pro iPads do have significant differences when compared to the non Pro version.
Screen size
Refresh rate
Stylus support
Smart conector keyboard
More ram
More storage options
True tone display
Faster CPU and GPU
Do these differences make it a Pro tablet... I think so (others may have a different opinion)
Can it replace a laptop and/or desktop? Depending on what said laptop and/or desktop are used for.
Can they be used for profesional work? Again this is dependent on what you do and if there are apps that allow you to do it.
In my opinion, if someone wants to use only an iPad, it is totally possible. Some tasks will be better on the iPad and other tasks will probably be cumbersome.
One thing I do believe is that anyone making the switch to an iPad only environment has to be prepared to accept some compromises.
Initially I was against the idea of trying to be iPad only, however I'm in the process of buying a 12.9 Pro to see how it pans out.
Worst case scenario is I go back to using a traditional computer and am left with an awesome tablet to consume media.
Screen size
Refresh rate
Stylus support
Smart conector keyboard
More ram
More storage options
True tone display
Faster CPU and GPU
Do these differences make it a Pro tablet... I think so (others may have a different opinion)
Can it replace a laptop and/or desktop? Depending on what said laptop and/or desktop are used for.
Can they be used for profesional work? Again this is dependent on what you do and if there are apps that allow you to do it.
In my opinion, if someone wants to use only an iPad, it is totally possible. Some tasks will be better on the iPad and other tasks will probably be cumbersome.
One thing I do believe is that anyone making the switch to an iPad only environment has to be prepared to accept some compromises.
Initially I was against the idea of trying to be iPad only, however I'm in the process of buying a 12.9 Pro to see how it pans out.
Worst case scenario is I go back to using a traditional computer and am left with an awesome tablet to consume media.
Calm down, all i'm saying is that it will be disappointing after 3 months, not upset. It's not as big of a deal as you make it out to be. If there was a 6 month gap, it would be more understandable and a 12 month gap would be more than understandable. If this was the norm with iPad releases it wouldn't matter but it's never usually released this late.So you're saying that you want an older product to be faster then a newer one and if the newer product is faster you'll be upset
Also "older product to be faster than a newer one" - They are different products. That's like complaining because someone said they don't want the 12" MacBook to outperform their 3 month old MacBook Pro, now do you understand?
I'm not upset, in fact, the dialog has provided some enjoyment
You were the one who posted that you'll be disappointed if the iPhone will be faster then the iPad:
I'm not the one complaining, you are, so you don't need to convince me
Seriously, i think you backed yourself into the corner with your statement that you'll be disappointed if the A11 is faster then the A10X, and since then you attempted to do all sorts of logical gymnastics
What’s laughable is you don’t do anything on the iPad that would even make the A8 chip sweat
I never thought you were upset, just taking it further then it needed to go.
You are the one complaining, you are complaining about my one line comment.
How did I back myself into a corner?
'logical gymnastics'? I am just explaining my side of the argument in various ways to somebody who can't understand.
Again, to end this I just want to clarify things you seem to be confused about: It doesn’t mean I expect it, it doesn’t mean I want it to perform exactly the same, it doesn’t mean I don’t want to see improvements.
Really it isn't even a far fetched argument, the iPad has 3 high performance cores while we can assume the iPhone will stick with 2. The iPad Air 2 saw multithreaded improvements over the iPhone 6S in some areas, and that was a difference of 11 months. So the idea that an iPad Pro released 3 months before an iPhone, and one thats moved to 10nm, really isn't unbelievable.
For a comparison, it's a bit like complaining because someone said they don't want the next 12" MacBook to outperform their 3 month old MacBook Pro.
If you don't understand the point of view of somebody being 'disappointed' (not upset, angry, or surprised as you seem to think I'm saying), then again, we should end the argument here. It's a bit pathetic to continue with this.
Mad Mac Maniac
macrumors 601
This is the kind of crazy mindset that I've come to accept as standard around here. Apple releasing a newer, better product does not obsolete/degrade the greatness of the product you already have...So you're saying that you want an older product to be faster then a newer one and if the newer product is faster you'll be upset
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The A10X is already a beast. That's all you should care about. If the A11 is even BETTER than the A10X, then woah!! That's a fantastic sign of Apple being able to continue to improve while maintaining power efficiency. And then imagine how phenomenal the A11X will be!
IMHO there’s nothing wrong with Apple releasing new SOCs every 12 months. That fast pace is what yielded a 100x gain in CPU performance over the last 10 years.
The ‘X’ versions were not “marketing BS”. They are beefed up versions of regular A? SOCs particularly in terms of GPU cores, but also in terms of CPU cores and cache.
The iPad screen has gotten significantly better overtime, surpassing iPhone screens except for DPI. By all accounts, including professional reviews from DisplayMates among others, it’s the best screen tech around.
Do we “need” higher performance/better iPad every year? Most likely not (some folks do). But when it’s time to upgrade, it is great to know that our new iPad is leaps and bounds better than the iPad we’re upgrading from.
The ‘X’ versions were not “marketing BS”. They are beefed up versions of regular A? SOCs particularly in terms of GPU cores, but also in terms of CPU cores and cache.
The iPad screen has gotten significantly better overtime, surpassing iPhone screens except for DPI. By all accounts, including professional reviews from DisplayMates among others, it’s the best screen tech around.
Do we “need” higher performance/better iPad every year? Most likely not (some folks do). But when it’s time to upgrade, it is great to know that our new iPad is leaps and bounds better than the iPad we’re upgrading from.
They are known to be working on products 3 to 4 generations beyond so your theory does hold some weight. But with that, even though they are working that far, they are still making refinements, which themselves are tedious. It’s a lost impossible to find all the bugs without beta releases and even then bugs are discovered years later. I don’t think just cause they had the opportunity to release means that it was ready for prime time.
What do you know about what I do? Seriously. Tell me what I use my iPad for. This is going to be cute. I'll wait right here. Respond first and then read below.
…
I'll be waiting.
…
Ok, have you responded? I doubt it, but let's continue.
I can tell you one thing that stalls out even a chip as powerful as the A10X: Retouching objects and refining masks in Affinity Photo. Want another? Editing full resolution 42MP RAW files from the Sony A7rII in Lightroom. I was on vacation last week and loaded up hundreds of these RAW files and edited dozens of them. Or 13x19" 300dpi drawings. Or using Affinity Photo to merge several bracketed 42MP RAW photos into a 16-bit HDR image.
I work the crap out of the iPad Pro. I had an Air 2 before this, so I'm fully aware of the performance difference between these two machines. I've seen the A8X begin to sweat even in basic use. It's rare, but when multitasking or switching around between a lot of tabs it can briefly slow down. For more advanced tasks involving photography and design, it is even slower.
It sucks to have to continually prove to people that your use is not the same as theirs. I've written posts in the last few weeks just like the one you just posted--usually when someone tells me I don't need a Pro to do what I do or that I can't really create content on my Pro. I honestly don't do ANY content creation on my Mac anymore. Unfortunately, even when I list all the projects I do on my iPad Pro that I consider to be far beyond what a casual user would do (record podcasts, create artwork, etc.) I'm usually just told that the end results probably aren't as good because I didn't do it on a Mac.
People won't listen. This battle is going to rage on in forums like this one. Meanwhile, in the real world, workflows will adapt more and more to devices like the iPad and iPhone, and laptops and desktops will become more and more niche.
Have you listened to John Gruber's podcast? I think it was on the podcast and not Daringfireball. Anyway, he basically goes on about how this whole situation is quite reminiscent of moving from keyboard based interfaces to mouse based interfaces and the war that raged about that. I barely remember the tail end of that debate in the early 90s when I was a little kid, but some of the legacy systems were still around and in use even into the late 90s and early 2000s so I'd hear "old timers" talk about it. Basically put, people said you couldn't get as much work done with a mouse as with a keyboard. Sounds crazy, right? But that's how it used to be. He explained how over time, the keyboard-only interfaces just kinda faded away. It wasn't like this overnight thing. I think the same will be true for iPad vs. the Mac, although probably even to lesser of an extent, especially for the next 10 years or so.
Why do I think touch interfaces will take over? Two reasons: They're easy for the average person to use, and machine learning. The second one is less obvious, so I'll go into that. The thing with touch interfaces and iOS devices in general that people complain about is that things are dumbed down and they don't always have all these fiddly little controls. But what I've learned from using Affinity Photo is that I can quickly mask an image 10x faster in there than using Photoshop on my Mac. The software will compensate, just like it did for the mouse, to make it an even better interface. I think in the future you'll be able to do even more complex tasks than you can do on your Mac, with more accuracy and efficiency, with the aid of machine learning in software. You'll just tell it what to do, and it will do it and do it well. Then you can go in and refine things a bit if needed, but the machine learning is what will bridge the divide.
Why won't this kill the Mac right away? Two reasons: Hardware and adaptation. Hardware is easy—the Mac is faster. But it's being overtaken by the A series chips on the lower end. However I think machines like the iMac Pro and modular Mac Pro will still give it some beefy power that won't be matched by the iPad anytime soon. Adaptation is the fact that the Mac can adapt the same machine learning the iPad can use to boost productivity. There's nothing inherent to the design of an iPad that makes machine learning better for it, unless Apple introduces the rumored machine learning co-processors in the A11. But they could potentially add the same on the Mac in the future. I think the Mac is well suited as a tool alongside the iPad for many years to come; but the iPad will become good enough that you could use it to replace the Mac most of the time, just with less performance or different style of operation.
Anyway, glad to see a fellow user out there trying to push the limits of these iPad Pros. I can't yet replace my Mac for everything I do—especially at work with web development stuff and the design multitasking/file system stuff I need—but I'm getting close and iOS 11 brings me within striking distance. And for many of the personal projects I do at home, especially once Affinity's version of "Illustrator" comes out later this year, the iPad will replace most of the things my Mac can do. The only really crappy thing I'm missing is the ability to plug a hard drive into my iPad and dump my photos for safekeeping. I don't completely trust the cloud, always want a second backup, and it's a lot faster than waiting for everything to sync over the cloud while draining my battery—especially for hundreds of 42mp RAW photos.
Yeah--I'm not fully 100% there yet either, but the only reason why is because of a piece of Flash based software that I'm required to use for work. It has an iOS app, but does not include the admin functions that I need yet. Once that change is made, I would technically be 100% iOS at that point. Of course my company prefers if I work on the company issued Mac that I have, but I'm just talking about those situations where I need to be out and about or not in my office.
This! Include me as an “old timer” but I was lucky enough to have jumped to the “mouse” bandwagon early on, running Windows286 and later Windows386. Using Excel when all my friends were learning keyboard shortcuts for Lotus 1-2-3 or Quattro Pro.
And you know what ? Keyboards shortcuts were faster than mouse/GUI in terms of productivity but that limited the use of PCs to a few that knew the shortcuts. Mouse/GUI was much more intuitive and with WYSIWYG it became the new standard.
Believe me when I say that early Macs were treated like an iPad: nice but not “productive” enough. In CitiBank, they were given to all assistants/secretaries not the actual bankers.
The new generation (12-21) is touch first, they don’t even know what a mouse is. Ok, they know what a touchpad is, but that is it. We, old timers, with 40+ yrs, are the ones stuck in the mouse trap (pun intended).
That was me, I was blazingly fast with Lotus.
Yes, it was also sexy as, instead of typing numbers on a monochrome screen, we had windows and a visually appealing app.
Perhaps but like the example of 1-2-3 being faster, so is the desktop based Excel with the mouse vs. the iPad. I'm a big proponent for using the right tool for the job and right now in 2017, the desktop/laptop is the right tool for many apps, including Excel. I use Excel on the iPad, don't get me wrong but no heavy lifting, I'll use my iMac for that.
The difference between then and now, isn't because the new is better, but rather the old (mouse) is still more intuitive and easier to use. This is why people fall into content creation vs. content consumption discussions, because the Mac (or PC) is still better at the content creation aspect.
You are absolutely correct about Excel: it sucks to create spreadsheets on an iPad. But my guess is that it has more to do with Microsoft doing a poor job at a touch interface than the iPad limitations themselves.
For now I still use my brand new MBP for spreadsheets. Still, in the future, I am sure that this too will change. Currently, spreadsheets are the 10% missing in my 90% shift to iPad. Everyone has a different app that ties them up to their PCs. As time evolves new software (like Excel was to Lotus 123) or better touch UIs (c’mon Microsoft) will make this transition easier.
AffinityPhoto is a clear example of a “new” software taking advantage of the power and ease of use of the iPad to replace an incumbent app (Adobe Photoshop) that has done a poor job transitioning their interface from mouse/GUI to touch.