My biggest gripe with AppleTV: iMovie Support

[fivepoint]

I for one hate iMovie 08 with passion. To do simple things, it is very complicated. If you are into making home movies, Final Cut Express would be worth investing in at some point.

The movies I make that I want to put on my Apple TV I too store them under TV Shows. Once I've finished editing, export using H.264 to the desktop, tag with MetaX, then pop it onto my external hard drive then sync with my Apple TV.

Although that isn't the most user-friendly way of doing it all. While I wouldn't even go near it, iMovie 08 library access in Apple TV would be pretty useful.

I share your disdain with iMovie on several levels... However, for organizing large libraries of home movies, it can not be matched. Certainly not by older versions of iMovie. I, personally, am in the middle of cataloging a bunch of old home movies. iMovie has been great, because I'm only making simple edits, not adding any music or anything like that... just cataloging, and organizing.

Regardless of your opinions on iMovie '08 though, you also agree that having to export all of the files, tag them, mis-file them in iTunes, etc. is hardly an optimal solution. Glad you agree.

In a perfect world, AppleTV would be able to see all of the projects from iMovie. If that couldn't work for some reason, it should at least be able to see files in your home folder under 'movies.' Then you wouldn't have to duplicate files and import/export them out of iTunes, etc.

iPhoto works perfectly with iTunes, why not iMovie!?!?!

All it would take is an extra tab (in your AppleTV device screen in iTunes (and the iPHone screen, etc)) which allows you to put 'checks' next to the movies you want to sync with the device. Just like iPhoto. Videos with the correct size for that device, would show up, the rest would be grayed out.

 

[kolax]

In a perfect world, AppleTV would be able to see all of the projects from iMovie. If that couldn't work for some reason, it should at least be able to see files in your home folder under 'movies.' Then you wouldn't have to duplicate files and import/export them out of iTunes, etc.

iPhoto works perfectly with iTunes, why not iMovie!?!?!

All it would take is an extra tab (in your AppleTV device screen in iTunes (and the iPHone screen, etc)) which allows you to put 'checks' next to the movies you want to sync with the device. Just like iPhoto. Videos with the correct size for that device, would show up, the rest would be grayed out.

In a perfect world, iMovie 08' would be a simplified replica of Final Cut Express, and when you finish your movie, it will ask you to tag it, then it'll export it to your desired save location and automatically add it to iTunes.

Then, the home movie is still in iMovie 08 and is archived in your library, but is also in the iTunes library to play on the Apple TV. It would have to be automatic to simplify the process.

If iMovie 08 was ever to share its library to the Apple TV, every finished home movie would have to be exported (or just rendered, and the rendered file remains in the iMovie library) so the Apple TV can read it. Sending .dv files would take up huge amounts of space, and streaming wouldn't really be ideal either.

 

[mrgreen4242]

What if you just created a genre called "Home Movies" since the atv does separate by genre ?

I actually create a TV show called Home Movie (unedited) and one called Home Movies I (edited). This keeps them all grouped together in a single place without cluttering up my menus, as well as letting me do some additional sorting on them (see below for season/episode sorting). You can name each "episode" and give it a detailed desription as well, helping you pick out the stuff you want (although the date is typically enough for me).

I have an MPEG2 HDD based camera that I periodically manually download all the video from (iMovie would do it automatically, but I'll explain why I do it manually in a moment) and clear off the internal drive (about 30 hours of video, so I can go quite awhile).

I then use Handbrake to do a high quality MPEG4 conversion of the video (I remove the anamorphic encoding and expand the file to a full 853X480, I use the highest quality deinterlace which is way better than iMovie/QT's deinterlacing and now with the recent builds of HB having a decomb filter it's even better). I then add all the unedit clips to iTunes, flag them as part of my Home Movies (unedited) TV Show, use an Applescript to mark them as part of a "season" (import session) and episode (in order of date/time). I also then add the files to iMovie '08, which handles MP4's just fine for editing, so I can edit them at my leasure (and share over to iTunes when I'm done).

Finally, I burn the MP4 files to a DVD-R DL (about 25 hours to an 8gb disc), and I burn the original MPEG2 files to a set of DVD-R DLs (about 5 8gb discs for 28 hours). I store those discs in cases in a dark drawer for backup, and delete the MPEG2's off my computer (I just work from the MP4s for editing, since they HAVE to get deinterlaced and importing the interlaced MPEG2s into iMovie results in a 50% resolution loss).

I'm actually going to go back and redo my last/only 30 hour import job from the backup MPEG2 files with the new decomb filter in Handbrake, and I might test CRQ h264 rather than 2-pass high bitrate MPEG4 (I'm concerned about the added power needed for working with h264 during editing, but I think for DVD/SD resultions it should be no problem). Only working in iMovie '08, of course, since they added support for all those flash memory cameras that use MPEG4, and I assume h264 will work fine since it supports AVCHD.

 

[d21mike]

Well... it's been several months, and I just thought this deserved to be brought back into the discussion again after ANOTHER AppleTV update came and went with no mention of support for home movies. This seems so strange to me... Apple continually pushes iLife as one of the major differences between Macs and PCs and the compatibility and interoperability between all of Apple's products.

Why in the world would Apple's only living room component completely ignore Apple's bundled home-movie making software? Why would AppleTV be able to work with iPhoto, but not with iMovie?

How about you? Would you use this feature?


P.S. I love my AppleTV, don't get me wrong. This simple change, however, would make all the difference for me!

I understand the direct link. But did you say earlier you are talking about the movies that are in mp4 format? In iTunes you can just "Add a Folder" under the Files Menu. And if you have iTunes setup to only add the link then your movies will still be stored in the iMovies Folder. Maybe not the same but would that be close?

 

[mallbritton]

Well... it's been several months, and I just thought this deserved to be brought back into the discussion again after ANOTHER AppleTV update came and went with no mention of support for home movies. This seems so strange to me... Apple continually pushes iLife as one of the major differences between Macs and PCs and the compatibility and interoperability between all of Apple's products.

Why in the world would Apple's only living room component completely ignore Apple's bundled home-movie making software? Why would AppleTV be able to work with iPhoto, but not with iMovie?

How about you? Would you use this feature?


P.S. I love my AppleTV, don't get me wrong. This simple change, however, would make all the difference for me!

Perhaps I'm just missing something here, but why don't you use the Share to iTunes option in the Share menu? You can choose the resolution, then iMovie '08 will export it to iTunes, then tag the movie in iTunes. It isn't necessary to use MetaX to tag your home movies, I suppose. But than again I may be misunderstanding.

Regards,
Michael

 

[fivepoint]

I understand the direct link. But did you say earlier you are talking about the movies that are in mp4 format? In iTunes you can just "Add a Folder" under the Files Menu. And if you have iTunes setup to only add the link then your movies will still be stored in the iMovies Folder. Maybe not the same but would that be close?

Perhaps I'm just missing something here, but why don't you use the Share to iTunes option in the Share menu? You can choose the resolution, then iMovie '08 will export it to iTunes, then tag the movie in iTunes. It isn't necessary to use MetaX to tag your home movies, I suppose. But than again I may be misunderstanding.

Regards,
Michael

I think the catch here... is that I don't want the files in iTunes. Just like photos, I don't consider my home movies to be iTunes material. I could put them in the movies section, but it would mess up my currently harmonious listing of hollywood movies. I could put them in the TV section, but they are not TV shows! iTunes devices should be able to see iMovie or movie folder content without having to import those files into the iTunes interface... just like with iPhoto.

I know that there are ways around this issue, and I sincerely appreciate everyone taking the time to share their workarounds, but at some point... I would hope that we wouldn't have to use a workaround! The whole idea of iLife is that anyone can do it. It makes things like movie editing, photo organizing, dvd making, easy and accessible for everyone! These workarounds are HARDLY simple enough for anyone to do... and they are all time consuming.

In the mean-time, I'm sure I'll go with the TV show solution and tag them all with MetaX... it's really a very decent solution... but I really can't wait until Apple gets on the ball and adds TRUE iMovie support to iTunes devices.

It's my #1 want from the next update! Please, someone from Apple, make this happen.

 

[aristobrat]

It's my #1 want from the next update! Please, someone from Apple, make this happen.

FWIW, what you're requesting seems like it'd require a change to the AppleTV software, along with changes to iMovie and iTunes.

Maybe something for this will be in the next iLife.

All it would take is an extra tab (in your AppleTV device screen in iTunes (and the iPHone screen, etc)) which allows you to put 'checks' next to the movies you want to sync with the device. Just like iPhoto. Videos with the correct size for that device, would show up, the rest would be grayed out.

 

[mallbritton]

I think the catch here... is that I don't want the files in iTunes.

That's what I wasn't understanding. Thanks. That makes sense.

Regards,
Michael

 

[d21mike]

That's what I wasn't understanding. Thanks. That makes sense.

Regards,
Michael

Just to be clear. My point was that the files are not physically in iTunes. Only a LINK to the files in iMovies. But I do understand the organizational and visual concerns. Also, there is an extra step to add the folder to iTunes.

 

[mac2thefuture]

Well... it's been several months, and I just thought this deserved to be brought back into the discussion again after ANOTHER AppleTV update came and went with no mention of support for home movies. This seems so strange to me... Apple continually pushes iLife as one of the major differences between Macs and PCs and the compatibility and interoperability between all of Apple's products.

Why in the world would Apple's only living room component completely ignore Apple's bundled home-movie making software? Why would AppleTV be able to work with iPhoto, but not with iMovie?

How about you? Would you use this feature?


P.S. I love my AppleTV, don't get me wrong. This simple change, however, would make all the difference for me!

I hear ya - I'd love this feature too

 

[Nessy]

I've gone about achieving this now in a bit of a bodged way but it works:

- Installed Boxee (very nice!).
- Installed NitoTV
- Installed 10.4.10 combo through NitoTV Smart Update
- Shared my iMovies folder with Guest access and SMB
- Added mount point in NitoTV

Can now browse through and watch my iMovie files on appleTV. Could not get AFP working hence SMB. No nice thumbnails etc. but at least it provides a way to finally watch memories on the ATV.

Still wanting apple to do this CORRECTLY but for now it will do.....

Here's hoping.

 

[Albion]

TV is strongly dependent on the itunes connection. The iphoto connection works not because the photos are in the pictures folder, but because iTunes was updated to facilitate the connection of personal photos. Now, it would be nice if Apple would add a lot of capabilities to TV, so that many of the (many) wishes about what TV could/should do could be granted, but whether they'll choose to ever get to any particular wish is always up in the air.

Here's another way to get closer to your wish.

When it comes organizing video so that they aren't in the one long "movies" list, you need to tag them as TV shows. With TV show tags, you have fairly good capabilities to organize content as you desire (though they still have to be managed by iTunes (and thus exported out of iMovie for this purpose).

Because, like you, I didn't want home moves mixed with (non home) movies, this is exactly what I did:
1. I tag all of my home movies as a TV Show (Get Info, Video tab, Video Kind- TV Show).
2. In the "Show" field, I put in Home Movie (for all home movies, NOT using distinct names in this field)
3. In the "Season" field, I put in the 4-digit year in which the home movie was shot (for example, 2008)
4. In the "Episode ID" field, I put in a 4-digit month/day (example: 0614 for June 14). If I don't know the exact date, I use best estimate.
5. In the "Episode Number" field, I put in an incremental episode number based upon when this video was shot vs. others shot in the same year. For example, if this is the 5th home movie I shot in 2008, the Episode Number will be 5).

6. In the "Info" tab, "Name" field, I punch in the name as I'd like it to be shown in TV. Unlike the "Show" field above, this is where individualized home movie names work best.
7. For "Artist" I use "Home Movies" (all of them are tagged this way- no distinct artist names).

8. Lastly, in the "Artwork" tab, I put in a nice tall image often culled from (iPhoto) photos taken at the same event in which the home movie was shot. If there are no photos available, I open the home movie in Quicktime, then screen grab it using the grab option in the Preview application. I always try to grab images that are about 2ce as tall as they are wide, much like movie posters. As such, when grabbing from QuickTime, I am cropping content from the sides so that I end up with an image that is taller than it is wide. To my eyes, these tend to look better in the TV equivalent of cover flow.

With them tagged as described above, they'll show up as a single line item (Home Movies) in TV Shows on TV. Clicking into that item will show them grouped by episode ID number, most recent to oldest home movie, with the names you entered in #6 as on-screen video descriptors). And if you tagged them as above (using 4-digit year for Season field), your movies will be split out as "seasons" by year, giving you a nice chronological organization to your home movies.

Over time your iMovie raw files will get dramatically larger and larger, always putting pressure on your readily-available hard drive storage situation. So rendering them down to H.264 will make it possible to have an "always available" copy of your home movies in relatively modest hard drive space. Then, you can move a relatively huge iMovie file offline (as in off your main accessible storage) when the day comes that you have so much iMovie video stored and not much room for more (readily available) hard drive storage.

I have nearly 2 terabytes of home movies in iMovie format (they do add up quickly). But they take only about 50gb as H.264, TV-ready videos available to iTunes.

Until Apple makes some meaningful adaptations to iTunes for better video tagging & organizing purposes, the above is the best way I've found to get fairly close to at least some of your objectives.

God I love this post! A question if I may. If one wanted to retain separate encodes of films or TV shows for ATV and for ipod (yes I know about using the ipod hi-rez setting in HB, but I still think it's a compromise for HDTV), would the above solution lend itself to retaining a separate folder in TV shows for iPod encodes of movies and tv series? This way your movies or TV show list on ATV wouldn't get clogged up with ipod only content, and would allow the ipod to selectively sync with only ipod capable content, rather than ATV content?

Of course it would mean giving up some of the menu functionality in the ipod as both movie and tv show content would be under TV shows, but I see no other way of not clogging up the ATV movie menu with ipod only content.

Regards