My first few hours on Mac Mini 2014: pls help

[DeltaMac]

Ah, OK, it's the old "look how much better the Windows screen looks, compared to the Mac screen" trick.
It really doesn't work, when you compare the two screen captures on the same system.
The two screens appear very similar on my screen, slightly lighter on the Win screen.
I can magnify to the max until I only see a couple of lines, and the relative sharpness is barely discernible. (That's an upscale word, which means (to me), that there's very little difference between the two screens. The font on your Mac example is much darker (appears bolded on the Mac), but shapes are much the same, with the same amount of font smoothing (and apparent sharpness) on both examples.
But that's on my Mac screen...
The only legitimate way to do this is to post actual screen photos of the same text, one from a Mac screen, and one from a Windows screen. That will prevent the Mac from afffecting smoothing on both screens, it's just a picture at that point.

It's all kind of pointless, really, because it's well known that the Mac and Windows systems show fonts on screen through very different schemes.
Some folks prefer one over the other, my eyes get tired quickly if I have to use Windows for a day - but my wife, who usually uses a Mac, too, prefers the Windows text. Good thing that everybody doesn't think the same in this life. We'd all be in serious trouble without the balance of the "other side" - But, maybe that's a philosophical question for another time.

 

[Mais78]

It really doesn't work, when you compare the two screen captures on the same system.

I don't get this. I viewed both images on my mac and on my pc and they just look the same on both systems: one very sharp and thin and the other one tick and blurry.

The two screens appear very similar on my screen, slightly lighter on the Win screen.
The font on your Mac example is much darker (appears bolded on the Mac), but shapes are much the same, with the same amount of font smoothing (and apparent sharpness) on both examples.

I don't have an issue with the shape, just with sharpness. Someone into photography knows what I am talking about, to me they are like night and day. Funny enough I showed them to an Apple support guy and he finds the Mac one much sharper, how in the world he finds that sharp is beyond my comprehension

The only legitimate way to do this is to post actual screen photos of the same text, one from a Mac screen, and one from a Windows screen. That will prevent the Mac from afffecting smoothing on both screens, it's just a picture at that point.

I don't think you would see anything different, the file I posted are screengrabs and they are visualised by both Mac and WIN as pictures. My pictures look exactly the same on Mac and WIN, the issue is just with font rendering (in all applications). The different font rendering is not affecting those pics.

If you say there is nothing wrong with the Mac image, then I guess it is just the Mac's rendering that it isn't for me (unless I buy a 4k monitor - to me the difference between the two images is like looking at a Retina display vs non-Retina).
Thanks for your intervention

 

[crazzapple]

Turn off font smoothing in the appearance section of the System Prefs. If that doesn't work, there is a terminal command to issue different levels of font smoothing.

 

[Mais78]

Turn off font smoothing in the appearance section of the System Prefs. If that doesn't work, there is a terminal command to issue different levels of font smoothing.

Thanks, did that (in System Pref) but did not make much of a difference.

 

[crazzapple]

Thanks, did that (in System Pref) but did not make much of a difference.

You need to restart each app before the setting takes effect.

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FWIW, I also prefer how windows renders text. The good news is that with retina displays the way the Mac does it becomes far better, IMO.

 

[Cherish]

I've seen RMBP display in stores and the text looks much sharper which is closer to what you see in Windows. You can also look at the screenshot I posted earlier. However, I can't imagine using an external display with it if it's going to look blurry on the bigger screen.

One thing Windows does better is that it renders text well even for 1080p screens but not the case with Mac and the mini still can't support 4k at 60hz. The only option is to get 15" RMBP with a 4k monitor or the 5k iMac. Even the 1440p iMac or thunderbolt display might not look sharp enough if your used to Windows fonts.

 

[Mais78]

I've seen RMBP display in stores and the text looks much sharper which is closer to what you see in Windows. You can also look at the screenshot I posted earlier. However, I can't imagine using an external display with it if it's going to look blurry on the bigger screen.

One thing Windows does better is that it renders text well even for 1080p screens but not the case with Mac and the mini still can't support 4k at 60hz. The only option is to get 15" RMBP with a 4k monitor or the 5k iMac. Even the 1440p iMac or thunderbolt display might not look sharp enough if your used to Windows fonts.

I guess I need a new monitor....which defeats my original purposes of buying a Mac Mini...anyway

The question is how many ppi do you need to get Windows like on a Mac + external monitor?

On Windows 90-100 are sufficient to get everything sharp (Dell U2412M is 94ppi). Retina on MacBook is about 220ppi, and also the iMac 5k is 220ppi. the MacBook Air is 130ppi and that is not sharp enough. iMac non-retina is 110, not enough.
So I guess on Mac you need at least 180-200ppi to have anything comparable to Windows 95ppi or MacBookPro 220ppi (considering that you will look at the external monitor at a longer distance than MacBook Pro).

Ideally I would like to buy a 27" screen since my current Dell is already 24". The problem with that is that 4k on 27" will get you only 163ppi, will that be enough?

I found the Nec 24" EA244UHD at 185ppi, looks great on paper too bad it is 16:9 vs 16:10 and it's 24 instead of 27..

There is also this LG 31MU97 at 150ppi, probably not enough.

Anyone that uses both Mac and Windows got any experience with 27" 4k?

 

[Mais78]

I found a nice calculator http://isthisretina.com/
Apparently the difference between 24 and 27 to be retina is about sitting back 5cm, 48cm vs 53cm. I am sitting 50cm away from my laptop right now so I guess i sit at 60cm from my 24 external monitor and probably i would be sitting even further from a 27" monitor, so 27 should do.
What I don't know is wheter this calculator allows for the extra ppi needed for the Mac font rendering.

 

[grockk]

This has nothing to do with pictures and graphics.

What you are seeing is a difference in font rendering. Windows does not display the font accurately and instead optimized for LCD pixels, OS X takes the font and approximates it with the pixels available. Basically if you print a text document on windows, the spacing and lettering won't match the screen. This matters less for web browsing and interface text but it's a design decision that makes a difference. If you do any page layout you will have better success on the Mac.

The short answer is that pictures and graphics are not affected by font smoothing. So don't worry about it.

 

[Mais78]

This has nothing to do with pictures and graphics.

What you are seeing is a difference in font rendering. Windows does not display the font accurately and instead optimized for LCD pixels, OS X takes the font and approximates it with the pixels available. Basically if you print a text document on windows, the spacing and lettering won't match the screen. This matters less for web browsing and interface text but it's a design decision that makes a difference. If you do any page layout you will have better success on the Mac.

The short answer is that pictures and graphics are not affected by font smoothing. So don't worry about it.

I agree, that is also my point, those screenshots are not affected by smoothing so they are perfectly comparable across machines. I am not worried for the pics, just for my eyes, that blurry text is not nice on them.

 

[dyn]

It's a personal thing. There are people who get physical problems (nausea, sore eyes) due to the font smoothing in Windows. To them the letters are as if they were meant for 3D (it looks there are two of them stacked on top: 1 red, 1 green) which is what makes them sick. OS X and Linux don't have this. Due to the way OS X does it, it can be perceived as being fuzzy. There are people who have problems with that (usually tired eyes because they are focusing more).

In case of switching from one OS to the other it usually takes some getting used to. However, in both cases the HiDPI displays greatly (if not completely) solves the problem in both OS X and Windows.

 

[Mais78]

However, in both cases the HiDPI displays greatly (if not completely) solves the problem in both OS X and Windows.

How? isn't that an option that only Retina displays have? I can only change resolution on my Dell, but it does not make any sense to use it at resolutions other than native.

 

[dyn]

It's just a property of HiDPI displays. The pixels are very small which makes things look a lot smoother, you don't see those rough edges that make letters look fuzzy. Apple calls these HiDPI displays Retina.

 

[Mais78]

It's just a property of HiDPI displays. The pixels are very small which makes things look a lot smoother, you don't see those rough edges that make letters look fuzzy. Apple calls these HiDPI displays Retina.

If i buy a 4k 24" and scale it to Full HD (1900x1080) for ease of reading the otherwise very small text, does that mean the font will be as blurry as on my current 24" Full HD monitor? thanks

 

[dyn]

If you are using the 1920x1080 with HiDPI option then you should be fine (it will use the native resolution of the display but things like text will be scaled). That would be similar to Apple's retina displays.