My little rant: Selling my MBP.

[netdog]

Hey man, get an HP if you think they are better. I was a Windows power user until Jobs trotted out the Intel Macs.

My experience has been that these machines are better than HPs, Dells and Sonys hands down. If that hasn't been yours, chuck the Mac. It really doesn't matter.

Rant on brother.

 

[aristobrat]

ow do you explain 4 bad macs in 6 months>>>>all bought new from Apple????? I never had a bad mac till the macbooks came out......... QC!!!!!

For what it's worth, Apple has had batches of bad Macs going back way, way before the MacBooks. Seemns like QC!!!! is always an issue when they try something new.

http://www.macintouch.com/reliability/laptops.html

The Titanium PowerBook G4s, which were quite popular, were more broadly troublesome than most models, with optical drive problems and case/latch/hinge problems being the most common issues.

But by affected percentage of models, the G3 iBooks were the worst by far, with more than half requiring logic board replacements. Apple created a warranty extension program for some versions, but not all. (MacInTouch readers are still reporting newly failed iBook G3s, and the warranty extension program has ended.)

 

[Rod Rod]

error! we only make one. Maybe two. or to. or too.

That illustrates the problem with spell-check, not the dictionary. Using a dictionary helps catch wrong-word problems. Nice try though.

 

[carbonmotion]

1) It takes time to get used to a new operating enviroment
2) Rev A and B machines are notorious for being broken and buggy
3) IBM Thinkpads are very sturdy buisness machines, but are far from infallible. Furthermore, they are also extremely overpriced.
5) Despite what people say, Vista is on par with OS X in terms of stability and looks, although the ladder is subjective. So you don't have to switch if you don't want to or have no economic imperative to.

If sorry you feel dissappointed, but neither Apple no OS X really is the miracle product people make it out to be. However, in most areas, it just as good as Windows and in some, far better.

 

[Carlsen]

1) It takes time to get used to a new operating enviroment
2) Rev A and B machines are notorious for being broken and buggy
3) IBM Thinkpads are very sturdy buisness machines, but are far from infallible. Furthermore, they are also extremely overpriced.
5) Despite what people say, Vista is on par with OS X in terms of stability and looks, although the ladder is subjective. So you don't have to switch if you don't want to or have no economic imperative to.

If sorry you feel dissappointed, but neither Apple no OS X really is the miracle product people make it out to be. However, in most areas, it just as good as Windows and in some, far better.

I agree completely. I've been extremely happy with OS X - and it took a couple of weeks to get the hang of the system. I have yet to master the console, but that's hardly the point.

To my knowledge, my MBP is a rev. B CD. This matches pretty well up with your statement.

IBM's -are- overpriced. However, the T60 I'm recieving is specced like the MBP - at pretty much the same price.

I've tried Vista, and recieved a friends "review" yesterday. It certainly has problems. However, security is improved.

 

[iW00t]

I agree completely. I've been extremely happy with OS X - and it took a couple of weeks to get the hang of the system. I have yet to master the console, but that's hardly the point.

To my knowledge, my MBP is a rev. B CD. This matches pretty well up with your statement.

IBM's -are- overpriced. However, the T60 I'm recieving is specced like the MBP - at pretty much the same price.

I've tried Vista, and recieved a friends "review" yesterday. It certainly has problems. However, security is improved.

IBMs do have a much better keyboard though, and their titanium casing are literally tougher than nails.

 

[Carlsen]

IBMs do have a much better keyboard though, and their titanium casing are literally tougher than nails.

Agree 100% on the keyboard. I haven't tried any brand of laptop that matches it.


----


I recieved notice that my MBP will be back from repairs this wednesday. They replaced some sort of powermanagement component, I was told.

That's a very fast repair, have to give Apple credit for a good service when it comes to this.

 

[cmccarten]

I'm in the same boat as you. I've on my third Mac since September, when I switched from my 3 1/2 year old Compaq laptop (never had a single problem with it, it always ran cool enough to put on my lap, and was quiet and stable).

Three macs not because I'm a finicky user, but rather because they've been riddled with problems. Each system has had stability issues, crashing programs, and general glitchy operation.
Blackbook: Insanse heat issues, fan roaring at all times; Upgrade to 15" CD MBP: Blown speaker out of the box, horrible illumination and grainy screen, and something loose and rolling around INSIDE the case.
I was given a new 15" CD mbp as replacement, but I'm kind of unhappy with it. It's in great shape and has no physical issues, but I'm just disappointed with its performance. I'm using it for some audio recording, and in most applications, it is "meh": not too slow, and certainly not too fast - bizarre because my 3 1/2 year old compaq laptop was snappier at times...the case is pretty hot (my palms get sweaty and uncomfortable when I'm writing papers on it), but I'm to understand that that is acceptable and/or normal for the mbp. I really hope they come out with a non-rosetta ms office suite soon; Word's sluggishness is driving me crazy.

Like you, I don't intend to mac bash, but man, I'm disappointed after all the hype surrounding them. I really want to like and enjoy these computers, but after dropping $2000+ on them, plus numerous trips back to the Apple store (it's a LOOONNGGG drive), I feel kind of suckered.

From what I've read, the C2D mbp's seem to have a lot better build quality and consistency, as well as better heat management.
I am hoping to offload my CD mbp very soon so that I can move up to the C2D...and if I'm let down by, I will follow your path: back to PC laptops and unix.

 

[iW00t]

Like you, I don't intend to mac bash, but man, I'm disappointed after all the hype surrounding them. I really want to like and enjoy these computers, but after dropping $2000+ on them, plus numerous trips back to the Apple store (it's a LOOONNGGG drive), I feel kind of suckered.

Put it this way, try to imagine that your MBP didn't cost $2000. Instead it just costs the same as a Dell. Would you still feel the same way?

 

[Chrispy]

To the OP, I did something very similar to what you are thinking about doing. I tried out the MBP when the C2D models were released. The first one I received had a warped case and was returned as DOA. The second one had a bad screen (really bad backlighting issues) so it was replaced. The third unit's screen was even worse with the right side being very dark in comparison to the left. It went back and I gave up for awhile. I now use a Thinkpad X60 and could not be happier. The machine runs Vista like a champ, is extremely light and very solid. It is far more durable than the MBP ever was.

To be fair, I used a MacBook C2D for awhile and I had zero issues with that machine. The only reason I got rid of it was my employer runs everything in a windows environment so I opted to go with a lighter machine. Also, the X60 gets about 4 hours battery with the standard battery and almost 8 hours with the extended battery (this is not true in Linux however where battery life takes a pretty good hit)... far more than I ever got with the MBP or MB.

Do beware however, the widescreen T60 models are having some screen issues on some models due to Lenovo using a sub-par Samsung display on some T60 widescreens. However, if you get a T60 wide with the LG display you will be very pleased from what I hear. I have used T60's in the past and they are great laptops!

 

[waremaster]

Hi,

I've been a Mac user for six months now - it's about to change though.
I'm not starting this thread to fire up a war between Mac's and PC's, OS X and windows. Only writing this to share my experience/opinion on the Macbook Pro and OS X in general, and hear others people's experiences.

I bought my Macbook Pro (2GHz CD, 1GB RM, 80GB 5400rpm, 4x SD, 15,4") some six months ago. The nice finish and first-hand rugged feeling persuaded me - along with OS X, the promise of a more comfortable "ride" without malware and other gibberish.

I was thrilled. Networking was pretty easy, although the same settings applied - they were just more logically placed. OS X has a very nice way of dealing with floating windows. Exposé is a great tool and a the dock seems like a good solution - at first..

Over time my fascination with OS X went away, and I started looking more at the Macbook Pro itself. The very build of the Pro was one of the things that really amazed me in the beginning. The MBP is gorgeous. It's properly engineered to look good - but the fun ends there. I understand why they push and push on to make it thinner. But maybe there's a reason the competition hasn't gone and made the cases so compact as is the case with the MBP. Remember, they all basically use the same components. These are standard. Apart from the logic board, made by ASUS I hear?

First, I've taken really good care of my MBP. I have really babied it. IT doesn't have -one- single scratch or dent, apart from one (very small one) on the bottom.

The laptop itself has some really bad inconsistencies. Stuff that really just should work, but seems a little strange and half-finished.

• My logic board needs replacing. After six months. If it was DOA, I could understand. But six months of use and then dead?
• The keyboard is rubbish when compared to the IBM I had. The keys look like they've been thrown on, some skewing and others just not lining up properly. The 'O' key has from day one been harder to activate than the others.
• The screen is grainy. This is a chipset issue (I've read), hopefully the new logic board will fix this.
• The trackpad button is inconsistent - the button is loose and makes a double clicking sound when pressed. Pretty bad for a very expensive laptop.
• It scratches waay to easily. Of course, I knew this when I bought it. Anodized aluminium isn't exactly robust.
• The battery time is awful. 3,5 hours MAX. Really sub-par.
• General stuff. Sometimes you have to hold the power-on button for three seconds to turn it on, other times it just goes on as soon as you touch it. It's worrying that your machine doesn't behave the same way every time you turn it on. The LEDs for the CAPS-LOCK and NUM-LOCK buttons build up charge, lighting when the buttons aren't on. This goes away when you press them, then builds up again. Rubbish.

The exoskeleton of the MBP works great for a really stiff build. But I'm afraid the way the exoskeleton work combined with the solid mounting and very compact fit inside, will lead to the components directly taking punishment for everything you subject the case to.
But the things that got to me is that in general, in ALL these things, it's just not a proper quality product. It's certainly not worth the extra cash. In my opinion, at least. It feels like a product in it's beta stage.

Software-wise I still like OS X. Not for being OS X, but for being a UNIX based platform with cute skin that (in most cases) keeps the user out of terminals.
To be honest, I would be just as happy with an Ubuntu install. As I see it, you have the same malware free environment, lots of great freeware, eyecandy (at your wish) and stability.

So, in the future it'll be an IBM T60 with Vista and Ubuntu.

It's been great being here, browsing this forum has helped me out a few times

EDIT: And by the way, pardon the bad grammar. Hope you made it through safely

Well with a small dent in an aluminum case and I am sure you said a slightly bent lid in either this post or another. (i am too lazy to reread) I would say that the machine you have has seen some abuse somewhere along the line and I would not doubt that has led to at least some of the problems. I am not insinuating you did the abuse but if you saw the bent lid as soon as you received it why didn’t you have it replaced immediately?

I have also been a long time user of Apple products and I am so far a very happy customer I have owned machines made as far back as 1983 and too tell you the truth I could turn on any one of them and use them even to this day. Maybe I have been lucky on my Apple purchases. I have owned many different types of machines over the years if I get one that is defective I have it immediately replaced I do not wait around for the problem to get worse. Oh I forgot my Apple Newton Message Pad drains batteries awfully fast. LOL

But seriously I am not trying to make lite of your problems I am sorry for the troubles you have with your machine and it is a shame you are not able to overcome these problems with the help of Apple and become a happy customer.


Good luck with your future purchases.

 

[MaaseyRacer]

High-end heat producing consumer electronics crammed into a small enclosure failing. With 6 months of burn in and new revisions of the logic board most of the issues you are describing will be fixed by the new board.

 

[schmintan]

High-end heat producing consumer electronics crammed into a small enclosure failing. With 6 months of burn in and new revisions of the logic board most of the issues you are describing will be fixed by the new board.

for the 2k paid for the machine, it shouldnt have these issues, and thats not including the cost of being without a machine when its being repaired. to answer a previous question on the thread which went something like " if the MBP only cost as much as a cheaper dell would the person in question still feel suckered". well i would. you spend your money looking for a working product. you dont spend it thinking, well its only half the price of the expensive laptops so if it breaks a ton of times its no biggie! thats just silly!!!

O, MaaseyRacer, where did you get a 2506MB graphics card for your MBP!!! i want one too!

 

[Chrispy]

The OP was just venting his frustrations about the build quality of the MBP. I understand that computers will have problems, but don't jump on the OP for being upset his laptop had a bad logic board in the first 6 months of ownership. Just because a computer is 1" thick does not give it an excuse for having flaky hardware. Lenovo's 15" widescreen T60 is only 0.1 inches thicker than the MBP and is much more durable. Quality/Durability matched with a thin design can be accomplished.

 

[MaaseyRacer]

Get it fixed, and keep taking it back until it works. Apple should not give you a new machine, you have not had it fixed once. So back your data up and get it fixed.

 

[schmintan]

you must be the biggest walk over ever. a salesman's and support department's dream! something breaks and you simply accept it!!! man you must waste a ton of money replacing your broken stuff with more stuff that will break as you probabilly accept the support dept's first response! suppose as the saying goes "a fool and his money are easily parted". im guessing some apple sales person also told you your MBP had a 2506 MB graphics card also! good purchase schleprock!

 

[jayeskreezy]

well, how much are you selling it for?

 

[cubbie5150]

Don't want to jinx myself, but I've had my MBP since 3/6/07 (ordered brand new from the online Apple Store; my very first Mac). I am blown away by the quality, and even the update to 10.4.9 went w/out a hitch (my AEBS connectivity was not impacted at all either, as some have reported as a rsult of the latest Airport update). I'm wondering whether most of the MBP issues are related to earlier revisions? TBH, I wanted to wait until Santa Rosa & Leopard were released before I made my purchase, but my thought process was that I'd rather have a "mature" platform (both hardware & software) as I could hopefully expect fewer issues. I typically let the early adopters take the chances of dealing w/ bugs.... All I can say is that my MBP kicks a$$; and I wouldn't trade it for any Windows-based laptop... Sorry to see the OP had a bad experience...

 

[Digidesign]

OP/Carlsen — have you gotten your Thinkpad yet? And if so, how is it?

I recently sold my Macbook C2D 2.0Ghz, mainly because typing on the keyboard after prolonged periods of time became painful. The Macbook keyboard looks great, but my fingers would slip on the flat surface if I typed fast and the low travel of the keys made my hands cramp after awhile. I owned a Powerbook G4, which had a much better keyboard, but still I wanted something better.

What made me consider the Thinkpad was:

• The keyboard. I tried out my friend's X40 Thinkpad and loved the feel.
• The build quality. No complaints with my MacBook, but I wanted something that could survive lots of traveling without fear of denting or damaging. My old Powerbook G4 (similar mats as the MBP) got scratched way too easily and also flexed a lot when I moved it physically around.
• Stuck in Windows. These days my work puts me mostly in Windows. Also, since I can't afford CS3, most of my graphic work is done in Windows since CS2 in OS X is still very slow for Intel Macs.
• Battery life. Battery management in Windows is not as good as OS X. The 9-cell battery will let me work longer on the go in Windows.
• Higher resolution 15.4" widescreen with the 1,680x1,050 15.4" Thinkpad (vs 1440x900 for MBP).
• Ultrabay adapter. This lets me add a second HDD or battery or Optical drive to the Thinkpad.
• Security. Many of you might remember my post about my no-good nosey housemate. I feel a bit safer knowing there's the extra layer of security on the Thinkpad with the fingerprint reader.
• Lastly, our company has a nice discount with Lenovo, which gave me a very nicely specced T60p (Model: 8744J2U) for just $200 more than the Macbook.

I seriously considered the MBP, but because of the reasons mentioned above, decided to go with the Thinkpad T60p. It shipped out today and I hope to have it later this week.

I still have my Mac Pro which runs almost always in OS X (my personal machine, not work-related) but for now the Thinkpad is my laptop solution.

 

[landis]

If apple has one major flaw, is that they are so much better than anything else.
now hear me out for a second

apple, unlike other computer manufacturers, do not want to throw a bunch of components in a box and call it a laptop. the want to push the engineering to the limit and squeze as much as they can into the smallest skinniest package.

this of course does lead to many other problems. poor airflow so it really heats up, risk of damaging internals, and less clearance for mistakes.

apple could be like every other manufacturer and make big thick heavy boxes that work fine, but are not anything to marvel at.

sometimes the cutting edge requires more product development, and user feedback, hence the revisions. the amount of engineering that goes into one of these laptops is far greater than a pc laptop.

i happened to buy one of the first imac g5s in Canada. no one had ever successfully attempted to put such a powerful pc all into the display, and make it look so good.

i will admit that i had a fried logic board, but i took it to the store and they replaced it in a few days for free. i shrugged it off. i expected some minor fallacies in a state of the art pushing the envelope desktop. now thew are an amazing computer with few if any problems.

it sucks to have so many problems with a computer, and that is why i am waiting till the summer to purchase my macbookpro, hopefully upgraded and working properly.

 

[Piarco]

I never though I'd be saying this, but so far - after 4 PowerBooks, 1 iBook, 1 MacBook, 1 iMac and a MacMini - my current MBP C2D is the least reliable of the lot.
The construction is sound - no complaints there - and the screen (matte) is perfect, but I've never had so many system hangs and freezes ever. I'm nearly rebooting as much as I did with a Windows PC (not a slight at MS - well maybe a little - but I tinkered and overclocked a lot so it came with the territory) and its not a happy situation at all.

It's the 2.16ghz version with 2GB RAM (Adata - taken from my MB when I upgraded) so you'd think its got the guts to whip through anything, but those beachballs say otherwise. I may have 4-6 apps open at any one time, but not enough to freeze the system. I've re-installed afresh (again not something that I thought I'd have to do) but once again the same problems plague me.
I'm beginning to think logic board... but I may be wrong. Genius bar beckons I think, but in the meantime is there any tests I can do to aid diagnosis? HDD has been checked, and all is good...

 

[daneoni]

I never though I'd be saying this, but so far - after 4 PowerBooks, 1 iBook, 1 MacBook, 1 iMac and a MacMini - my current MBP C2D is the least reliable of the lot.
The construction is sound - no complaints there - and the screen (matte) is perfect, but I've never had so many system hangs and freezes ever. I'm nearly rebooting as much as I did with a Windows PC (not a slight at MS - well maybe a little - but I tinkered and overclocked a lot so it came with the territory) and its not a happy situation at all.

It's the 2.16ghz version with 2GB RAM (Adata - taken from my MB when I upgraded) so you'd think its got the guts to whip through anything, but those beachballs say otherwise. I may have 4-6 apps open at any one time, but not enough to freeze the system. I've re-installed afresh (again not something that I thought I'd have to do) but once again the same problems plague me.
I'm beginning to think logic board... but I may be wrong. Genius bar beckons I think, but in the meantime is there any tests I can do to aid diagnosis? HDD has been checked, and all is good...

Maybe your system restore discs have corrupted drivers in them. I've heard a story where the guy was having alot of issues. He then tried a friend's restore discs and re-installed OSX and all was well.

I have the same machine as yours and its been peachy, in fact, its been on for 20 days now non-stop and its still cutting through tasks like hot knife through butter

 

[Piarco]

Maybe your system restore discs have corrupted drivers in them. I've heard a story where the guy was having alot of issues. He then tried a friend's restore discs and re-installed OSX and all was well.

I have the same machine as yours and its been peachy, in fact, its been on for 20 days now non-stop and its still cutting through tasks like hot knife through butter

Gah... it's just me then (nice to here yours is running great - something for me to aim for!!) but unless the exact disks were used to install OS X et all onto the MBP then I can't blame the restore disks - I was having the same problems from the start.

I'll be doing the system test tonight (restore disks and "d" held on boot IIRC) to see what'll happen... Not sure if I'd prefer the logic board to be at fault for Apple to repair or the memory borked which means I need to fork out the readies...