Navigon + TomTom Car Kit

[dagomike]

According to the review on insanelygreatmac the kit will work with Navigon as far as charging the iPhone and transmitting sound through its speaker. The GPS part won't work.

The review up there is just the first look w/ limited testing. Another review is coming.

What I said was you don't need TomTom to use the kit. Meaning, if you only use TomTom once a month, you can still use the kit daily for calls, iPod, whatever. Other apps do access the GPS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Nf-l6_fLXk

 

[Cybermarmotte]

It says you can use the car kit without the TomTom app, but it does not explicitly say the car kit provides navigation capabilities in that case.

If you watch the video, you should see that an iPhone 1st generation is able to work with tomtom car kit the navigon app.

So the tomtom car kit is able to work with an iPhone.

 

[katanapilot]

Ok I purchased the tom tom car kit and navigon app, and they work great together. (BTW I think the Bluetooth thing is just for calls not for navigation use.) Because i had it in airplane mode - cancels calls/wifi/bluetooth/gps and the gps worked perfect as a navigation tool, but when i pull the phone out the tom tom cradle it did NOT get satellite signal, so I think this tom tom thing has a GPS receiver in it.

I think this is not a cheap solution being that a garmin GPS is 120 bucks at walmart but, but if less is more for you this is a must (less crap to carry).

Personally I love it, the speaker phone is not as good as I would like for it too be, but it will do. I think this phone keeps getting better by the day with solutions like this.

If any one wants a quick video of something specific I can do a quick one for you guys...

ohh yea and I am new too mac rumors (been meaning to join for a long time).

 

[striders]

Ok I purchased the tom tom car kit and navigon app, and they work great together. (BTW I think the Bluetooth thing is just for calls not for navigation use.) Because i had it in airplane mode - cancels calls/wifi/bluetooth/gps and the gps worked perfect as a navigation tool, but when i pull the phone out the tom tom cradle it did NOT get satellite signal, so I think this tom tom thing has a GPS receiver in it.

If any one wants a quick video of something specific I can do a quick one for you guys...

ohh yea and I am new too mac rumors (been meaning to join for a long time).

A couple of questions:

1) Do you have to use the TomTom Car Kit tool software (link here) in order to make Navigon works with it?

2) Do you have other GPS software and if you do, does it work with TT Car Kit? I.e. Magellan, CoPilot, etc.

3) I look at the picture of the kit and it seem that the distance from the suction cap to the phone attachment is very short. My iPhone car holder (no GPS built-in) has a "pipe" that can bend, so it make the iPhone sit closer to me. Is the TT Car Kit made such that it's closer to the windshield? I am worried that the further away it is from me, the harder for me to read the street name (Navigon have very small font)

 

[cavemonkey50]

A couple of questions:

1) Do you have to use the TomTom Car Kit tool software (link here) in order to make Navigon works with it?

No, but having the application installed makes the annoying "this accessory requires an app" message to go away. You may be able to remove it after installing and the message stays away, but I haven't tested.

2) Do you have other GPS software and if you do, does it work with TT Car Kit? I.e. Magellan, CoPilot, etc.

When in the dock, the car kit acts an external GPS to the iPhone. Therefore, any app that uses location services benefits from the external GPS. This does not require Bluetooth enabled like some have mentioned.

3) I look at the picture of the kit and it seem that the distance from the suction cap to the phone attachment is very short. My iPhone car holder (no GPS built-in) has a "pipe" that can bend, so it make the iPhone sit closer to me. Is the TT Car Kit made such that it's closer to the windshield? I am worried that the further away it is from me, the harder for me to read the street name (Navigon have very small font)

I find that the design does cause the phone to sit further back compared to other mounts, but it wasn't as far back as I thought before installing it. It's still in a reachable area in my car.

 

[striders]

When in the dock, the car kit acts an external GPS to the iPhone. Therefore, any app that uses location services benefits from the external GPS. This does not require Bluetooth enabled like some have mentioned.

That's interesting. My thought is that the app (Navigon, CoPilot, etc.) must have a driver / API to know that there is a separate GPS hardware to connect to. You know, just like driver in Mac. But it sounds like "plug and play" here. Plug the Car Kit, run ANY GPS app, and the GPS app recognise the car kit?

I find that the design does cause the phone to sit further back compared to other mounts, but it wasn't as far back as I thought before installing it. It's still in a reachable area in my car.

Can you still read the street name though? Maybe my eyes getting older but even with a 4" goose-neck connector, I am having trouble reading the street name.

 

[cavemonkey50]

That's interesting. My thought is that the app (Navigon, CoPilot, etc.) must have a driver / API to know that there is a separate GPS hardware to connect to. You know, just like driver in Mac. But it sounds like "plug and play" here. Plug the Car Kit, run ANY GPS app, and the GPS app recognise the car kit?

Yeah, that's what I thought too at first, but Apple must have some API built in the iPhone OS to extend the GPS to an external device. After all, TomTom announced the car kit during Apple's iPhone OS 3.0 announcement, so they probably worked with Apple on the API.

I can definitely confirm Navigon uses the external GPS, because if you unplug the car kit while Navigon is using it, Navigon looses GPS for 20-30 seconds while it switches over to the internal GPS.

Can you still read the street name though? Maybe my eyes getting older but even with a 4" goose-neck connector, I am having trouble reading the street name.

I couldn't read the on-map street names with my previous dock solution, so it's not much of a difference. Maybe Navigon will come up with a better contrast display of the street names some day. I can, however, still read everything else just fine on the display.

 

[striders]

Thanks, Cavemonkey50! Really helpful information.

 

[schulzmc]

I received a second email from Tom Tom Customer service. They confirmed the previous email and clearly stated that the iPhone MUST be linked via bluetooth for the Tom Tom app to use the GPS chipset in the car kit.

That makes me question whether Navigon is indeed able to access the chipset in the car kit.

 

[striders]

I received a second email from Tom Tom Customer service. They confirmed the previous email and clearly stated that the iPhone MUST be linked via bluetooth for the Tom Tom app to use the GPS chipset in the car kit.

That makes me question whether Navigon is indeed able to access the chipset in the car kit.

Well, seems that people are ABLE to use TT Car Kit with other GPS apps, as mentioned above.

Maybe TomTom trying to keep people from using the Car Kit with non TomTom app?

 

[sidewinder]

I received a second email from Tom Tom Customer service. They confirmed the previous email and clearly stated that the iPhone MUST be linked via bluetooth for the Tom Tom app to use the GPS chipset in the car kit.

That makes me question whether Navigon is indeed able to access the chipset in the car kit.

They can tell you that as many times as they want, but it does not make it correct. They have incorrect information....

S-

 

[cavemonkey50]

They can tell you that as many times as they want, but it does not make it correct. They have incorrect information....

S-

I have to agree. Two days ago using Navigon I drove through a tunnel in a mountain (a little under a mile long) and didn't lose GPS at all. I was not paired with Bluetooth at time (I keep on forgetting to turn on Bluetooth on my iPhone).

Had the TomTom car kit not been functioning without Bluetooth, I would have surely lost signal. When I pass under a tree using just my phone's GPS I lose signal. So, I'm sold the GPS doesn't require Bluetooth to function.

 

[KrakaJap]

For what it's worth, here's what I've tested:

1: tomtom app with car kit and NO Bluetooth works fine
2: tomtom app with car kit and Bluetooth seems to work slightly better (tested on a very curvy road where just the app takes a few seconds to update)
3: navigon with tomtom car kit and NO Bluetooth works fine... pretty much same as navigon without tomtom car kit
4: navigon with tomtom car kit and Bluetooth works same as navigon by itself
5: navigon with tomtom car kit and phone disabled and NO Bluetooth works same as navigon by itself

bottom line: looks like navigon will use the car kit but not in "addition" to the iPhone's internal gps. Tomtom app seems to work better with Bluetooth paired but is NOT required. I tested all of this on the same road and about half a tank of gas LOL anyone else want to help validate this?

I think navigon is designed to use whatever gps is available but not as an augmented gps whereas the tomtom app IS designed to do this.

 

[striders]

bottom line: looks like navigon will use the car kit but not in "addition" to the iPhone's internal gps. Tomtom app seems to work better with Bluetooth paired but is NOT required. I tested all of this on the same road and about half a tank of gas LOL anyone else want to help validate this?

I think navigon is designed to use whatever gps is available but not as an augmented gps whereas the tomtom app IS designed to do this.

I don't understand: how can a Bluetooth chip augment the GPS chip inside the car kit?

 

[sidewinder]

I don't understand: how can a Bluetooth chip augment the GPS chip inside the car kit?

I don't think it can. I don't recall seeing any API provided by Apple that would allow this.

S-

 

[tknelson]

I don't understand: how can a Bluetooth chip augment the GPS chip inside the car kit?

Published claims, correct or not, stated that Bluetooth is used for data transmission between the car kit and the iPhone, including the GPS data.

There is clearly a lot of evidence that the GPS chip works with other apps. However, anecdotes like "my iPhone didn't lose signal through a tunnel so it works" are not compelling, in the least.

 

[KrakaJap]

I completely agree that it makes no sense BT would have anything to do with GPS. What I experienced could easily have been my imagination or just a much clearer GPS signal that happened to be the same time I enabled BT. I plan on testing this again tomorrow and would like to see someone else do it as well. To clear my own mind if anything at all.

Either way, my GPS works quite well regardless (for my needs) and that's really all I care about. Since I've purchased both apps and the car kit I really can't be any worse off anyway LOL

 

[tknelson]

I completely agree that it makes no sense BT would have anything to do with GPS. What I experienced could easily have been my imagination or just a much clearer GPS signal that happened to be the same time I enabled BT. I plan on testing this again tomorrow and would like to see someone else do it as well. To clear my own mind if anything at all.

Either way, my GPS works quite well regardless (for my needs) and that's really all I care about. Since I've purchased both apps and the car kit I really can't be any worse off anyway LOL

Actually, it makes perfect sense. There are a ton of BT GPS receivers on the market (and have been for years) that work with mobile devices. However, the iPhone has never supported anything but audio over BT, so I agree that it seems unlikely to magically work for this device.

I wish Navigon, Apple or TomTom would step up and clarify this situation. There are obviously people with all of those companies that know the answer and I have a hard time seeing how that information could be privileged.

 

[lordhamster]

The Tomtom car kit works great w/ Navigon. I'm using it that way whenever I feel I need traffic info more than a fast interface.

 

[KrakaJap]

I still can't seem to figure out if this BT enabled is helping any. Although I'm also wondering if it is even possible for an app to use 2 gps chips simultaneously without some sort of communication between the 2. Perhaps this is what TT is referring to when stating BT is required? I do not believe that Navigon uses both... just one or the other. TT on the other hand stated the Kit would "augment" the iphone's internal GPS. So unless the TT app itself is written to support 2 chips simultaneously, they might have gone with a hardware/hardware/software solution: Kit+BT+TT app to communicate the external GPS over BT when "augmenting" with the internal GPS. Does that make any sense? lol

Either way... I'm getting mixed results using TT app with and without BT enabled. Sometimes it seems better and sometimes it's the same. So in my own conclusion, regardless of whether or not BT helps, it doesn't help much plus the Kit's speaker system sucks so it's best to leave BT off and use your own BT solution if needed.

As for Navigon, it works with the Kit, plain and simple. So does Google Maps but Maps requires a data connection to update images so sometimes (without data) you'll be positioned on a blank background. LOL

 

[rapidblue]

I use Navigon - love it!!! Soooooo tempted to go get a TomTom car kit for it though
Quick q - if you pair your phone via BT to the car kit are the Navigon voice command played on the car kit's external speaker?

 

[lordhamster]

I use Navigon - love it!!! Soooooo tempted to go get a TomTom car kit for it though
Quick q - if you pair your phone via BT to the car kit are the Navigon voice command played on the car kit's external speaker?

If you have the iPhone docked in the TomTom Car kit, all normal sounds like music and Navigon instructions are routed through the Tomtom unit's external speaker. If you have the lineout connected to your car you'd even hear it all over your car stereo.

This function does NOT require the bluetooth pairing to be on. The only function that requires bluetooth to be paired is the speakerphone functionality. I use the TomTom kit with the bluetooth un-paired because I prefer to use a bluetooth unit from BlueAnt. The TomTom cradle still works great.

I just wish they had a iphone port pass-through so that I could use the system with my built in ipod connection.

 

[rapidblue]

If you have the iPhone docked in the TomTom Car kit, all normal sounds like music and Navigon instructions are routed through the Tomtom unit's external speaker. If you have the lineout connected to your car you'd even hear it all over your car stereo.

This function does NOT require the bluetooth pairing to be on. The only function that requires bluetooth to be paired is the speakerphone functionality. I use the TomTom kit with the bluetooth un-paired because I prefer to use a bluetooth unit from BlueAnt. The TomTom cradle still works great.

I just wish they had a iphone port pass-through so that I could use the system with my built in ipod connection.

Went to the mall after work today and got myself the car kit. As you mentioned - the Navigon voice is being played via the car kit's built-in speaker - soooo much better than the iPhone's little speaker. Loving it

 

[navguy]

I still can't seem to figure out if this BT enabled is helping any. Although I'm also wondering if it is even possible for an app to use 2 gps chips simultaneously without some sort of communication between the 2. Perhaps this is what TT is referring to when stating BT is required? I do not believe that Navigon uses both... just one or the other. TT on the other hand stated the Kit would "augment" the iphone's internal GPS. So unless the TT app itself is written to support 2 chips simultaneously, they might have gone with a hardware/hardware/software solution: Kit+BT+TT app to communicate the external GPS over BT when "augmenting" with the internal GPS. Does that make any sense? lol

not really ... and in my experience, BT has nothing to do w/ GPS ... also as far as i can tell, it's an "either or" situation, if TT mount GPS has a fix, the apps use the mount and if mount doesn't have a fix, the apps are using iPhone (the mount seems to override the internal GPS when it has a fix) ... i've tested this by noticing that it takes the mount about 20-30 seconds to achieve a fix from a cold start (watching the TT mount free app satellite page) ... so, when Navigon app has a fix w/in 8-10 seconds of opening an app while sitting in the mount as i turn the car on ... i can navigate for 20-30 seconds w/o mount having a satellite fix. Then at about 30 seconds, there is a momentary lag in navigation (consistently - tried this half a dozen times), which i believe is mount GPS fix and the app transitioning over to the external GPS source. the reverse also occurs, remove the phone while navigating and the app lags a bit to transition back over to iPhone GPS ... not completely factual but observed

seems to be working as expected

 

[KrakaJap]

It's a little unsettling that TomTom hasn't released any detailed information on this process. I've tried a few times myself and they simply point me to their online FAQ and technical details pages. Oh well... not really that big of a deal anyway. It only takes me a couple GPS sessions to learn my way around a city and then it becomes useless until I go on vacation. hahaha