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Need some advice on first SLR purchase.
- Thread starter iceblade
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I'm going through the same process/issues. I'll not bore you with all the detail, but here is my summary.
I, too, decided to stay away from Pentax, Sony and lastly Olympus. I liked the Oly's, but when I looked at the used market for lenses, there are just not enough Oly's around. Canon (and Nikon) are everywhere.
I looked at XS, XT, D40 and XTi. Used street prices are relatively affordable on the XTi (just over US$300 for a low-click camera body), and I can use my old Canon EF lenses on an XTi or XS, until I figure out where to invest in new lenses.
The XS is tempting, with the IS kit lens, but the shot speed in RAW is slower than the XTi. The live view on the XS is very nice for macro work, though. Something you mentioned you were looking to do. Live view doesn't work for me in the XS, though, because you basically have to manual focus. Another benefit of the XS: better battery and it uses SD cards instead of Compact Flash.
You can see the two side-by-side here: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/com...cameras=canon_eos400d,canon_eos1000d&show=all
Good luck.
Yeah, I got the same problem too, after considering again, I end up the same choices as you guys, I love to take macro shots (in fact most of my pics are macro), I'm just not sure if I should go for the 1kD or 4hD?
Also, since I'm planning to take some night shots (esp. fireworks) do you guys think jpeg will do fine? or RAW is needed? and with a shooting speed at 1.5fps RAW, is it good enough for fireworks or better stick with JPEG?
Also, since I'm planning to take some night shots (esp. fireworks) do you guys think jpeg will do fine? or RAW is needed? and with a shooting speed at 1.5fps RAW, is it good enough for fireworks or better stick with JPEG?
By that logic why are you using an Apple computer? They don't get used as much as Dell, HP/Compaq or Gateway.
Olympus and Pentax are not "solidified in the camera market"???
I couldn't help but LOL at this too.
Well, Pentax could be dead within a few years, and Olympus is probably going to have more success with m4/3 than they're having with 4/3 (or, in other words, I agree with Thom's predictions).
Olympus didn't go 'great' with the 4/3, so I don't expect m4/3 to do any better. The crop factor on it seems to be a big deal. Pentax has a relationship with Samsung for part sharing. If Hoya doesn't want to go anywhere with Pentax Imaging, Samsung may snap it up if they can.
I think m4/3 has quite some potential if it's priced right, though. If the G1 weren't more expensive than an XSi, I would have given it more consideration.
If Olympus and Panasonic can position the m4/3 cameras as competitors to prosumer PnS cameras, there's a lot of success to be had. But against entry-level dSLRs, I would rather go with dSLRs instead of an m4/3 camera.
Olympus and Pentax are not "solidified in the camera market"???
There are lots of speculators who think one or both could be sold/resold or go under in 2010/2011 with the economic downturn coupled with the fact that the Yen is weak against the US & Canadian dollars and the Euro all at the same time.
That means the traditional market shifting that the Japanese companies do when the dollar rears up against the Yen can't happen, making existing stock expensive everywhere with no good outlet other than perhaps China and India- and China's dive bombing along with the US economy, and the Indian market isn't that big.
Olympus has been in clawing its way back from a bad financial position, and Pentax is still a money-losing division for Hoya. In a global recession, there may not be enough sales to make either financially viable.
Olympus is basically competing with Panasonic for 4/3rds share, and Panasonic just swallowed up Sanyo- Sanyo do most of the Olympus production- that could spell interesting times.
How patient are Hoya's shareholders? How much of the corporate resources will the larger-revenue and newer endoscope business get at Olympus? Those questions may fuel a lot more insecurity in the imaging divisions if the recession goes well into 2010 or 2011.
It'd be a shame to lose either of them, because the competition keeps everyone buoyed in technology refresh and feature gains. But if the Yen doesn't strengthen against the dollar or Euro, and the recession takes its time then there is no guarantee that they both stay in the market.
I don't see Panasonic borging Oly at this point, since they'd then have themselves as their manufacturing customer in a potentially shrinking market. I suppose Samsung could make a play for one of them, other than that, I don't see many potential suitors.
Of the two, I'd have to say that Oly's probably got the best chance of pulling through, though Hoya could just bull through the storm losing money. But if Micro 4/3rds succeeds, it could put Oly out of the dSLR business and into the Micro 4/3rds business anyway.
I was just reading over on Pentaxforums that for this particular sales store Nikon and Canon have literally NO margin for profit where Pentax seemingly has the largest (ie Hoya makes more per camera than Nikon or Canon). Pentax Imaging (remember, pentax makes medical equipment and many other items) isn't quite the money loss leader you're thinking they are.
Olympus and Pentax are not "solidified in the camera market"???
Thats not quite what I said. I said a company MORE solidified. I've heard Pentax might be going out soon. As for Olympus, I don't think they're as big as Nikon or Canon. This means there will be more Nikon and Canon used lenses, but I think I've been over that before... If not, I apologize, I meant to.
It comes down to the fact that I don't really WANT a Pentax, Sony or Olympus. I have a few friends who use Olympus, and I considered it. But its really Nikon or Canon that I want. Some people just have 'weird' preferences. Its true: People with small budgets can't be picky. If lenses are more important then bodies (as 4 out of 5 people have told me it seems), then it makes more sense to purchase a camera with a bigger used lens market.
However, if you prefer Pentax, Olympus, Sony, are a stock holder of any of the above etc., I'm more then happy for you to use those. Just not my preference.
Extremely helpful post, thank you very much. It seems you and I have similar trains of thought. I'll definitely be checking out some of the stuff you talked about.
I use Apple computers because at this time, they offer me about the same benefits as Dell, HP/Compaq and Gateway computers, except hopefully better quality and an OS that I prefer more over Windows. That, and my experience with HP and Compaq is sour, and I'm not sure Dell or Gateway would be any better.
Thanks everyone. I'll be looking around some more, so any more tips are appreciated!
Thanks. My point: With such a large investment, don't settle for anything less.
I was going to get a D40, and the price where I was looking was down to $469. It did seem a bit small in my hands, compared to the FM I had before I sold most my film equipment. I couldn't give away my N70 and lens, so I kept it for film work and that still felt better than a D40. Then at that camera shop, the guy let my hold the new D90. Wow, that was perfect! But I can't afford $1300.
Then, at another camera shop, they had an Olympus E-500 with 2 lenses closeout for $499. That one felt perfect in my hands. Also, not to mention I had CF cards from my old Olympus digital camera that I can use in it. I was sold.
I took it out shooting and it meets my needs perfectly.
Make sure you don't settle for anything less as well. If you have second doubts about the D40, maybe see if you can find a slightly better/older model closeout that suites more your needs.
You'll be glad you did.
It's pretty simple. People STOPPED buying Apples in the '90s for some of these same reasons -- limited third party hardware support, overly expensive machines, proprietary technology, hard to find parts, etc.
Apple clawed it's way back by a) reinventing it's platform via the NEXT acquisition, b) launching a whole new space called iPods, that drew people back to Apple technology, and then c) Microsoft dropping the ball when it had it's lead. If MS Vista had been a GREAT operating system at launch, instead of a steaming pile of dung (granted, it's better now), do you think Apple would have been able to get the market share back they have gotten?
So, if Canon and Nikon totally mess up, then others will have an in. It WILL happen. It ALWAYS happens. But at this particular point in time, Canon and Nikon are the "safer" bet if you want to be able to buy second hand parts/lenses, and if you want to have a supported resale value on your product. It's just the circle of life (for corporations and technology).
By the way -- a big difference between Apple and Olympus, for one, is that Apple technology has a devoted loyal following, and their hardware commanded good re-sale value. I see no evidence that Oly DSLRs have even close to the same, even if their technology is pretty good.
The same applies to Pentax. You can get the K20D, their latest body with 14.6MPixel CMOS sensors, weather sealing and the ability to use ANY LENS PENTAX HAS EVER MADE (thanks to image stabilization in the body). That's over 50 years of lens history. That body is currently going (if you look in the right spots) for about $600-650. The one thing I hear commonly is how well built and ergonomic the Pentax bodies are in comparison to the C or N bodies.
If that's not value I'm not sure what is?
what's going on here? why do people keep mixing up what the Op is trying to say? the reason he doens't want Pentax or Olympus (and neither would I) is because it is easier to find used lenses for N or C, is that not true? N and C used lenses are easier to find, just that simple. He is not sayin there's something wrong with P or Oly...
Well, not to get into semantics but Nikon has changed their F mount a few times causing incompatibilities. So you can't use every Nikon F mount lens ever made on a new body.
Canon's mount changed with the EOS in the 80's AFAIK. You cannot use any lens older then that.
You can use a 60 year library of Pentax lens' on a new Pentax body, however. So... one might argue that you'd likely have a larger array of lens' with Pentax to go through.
That's one of the reasons I chose Pentax myself.
yes you could argue that, and still at the end of the whole argument, even tho more Pentax lenses have been made, Nikon or Canon used lenses are easier to find today, so it throws your whole argument out of the window..
i just made a quick ebay search and this is what I found on the first page (out of 25) 2 pentax 7 canon 4 sony 8 nikon 1 oly. and the rest were other brands.
Wow. And i thought 16mp would be a good camera. Imagine the file size of a 261mp photo.
uh huh
And I'm telling you that the D40 works just fine with my two pre-AI lenses. Do you need photographic proof that they mount and operate normally? There's no metering, but the pictures come out just as well as they would on an older camera.
You may want to check this out:
http://www.nikonians.org/nikon/slr-lens.html
Note the D40 compatibility (and how it differs from every other digital camera listed, except for the D40x/60, which should be considered to be the same camera for these purposes).
And I'm telling you that the D40 works just fine with my two pre-AI lenses. Do you need photographic proof that they mount and operate normally? There's no metering, but the pictures come out just as well as they would on an older camera.
You may want to check this out:
http://www.nikonians.org/nikon/slr-lens.html
Note the D40 compatibility (and how it differs from every other digital camera listed, except for the D40x/60, which should be considered to be the same camera for these purposes).
And I just browsed to: Home > Buy > Cameras & Photo > Lenses & Filters > Lenses
(but this unfortunately includes extensions, P&S tubes, cameras with lenses, etc ...)
To Fit Camera:
Canon (4,004)
Nikon (3,945)
Pentax (1,519)
Minolta (1,454)
Sony (1,415)
Olympus (1,033)
Fuji (963)
Leica (888)
Or in greater detail:
Bronica (230)
Canon (4,002)
Contax/Yashica (462)
Exakta (190)
Fuji (963)
Hasselblad (377)
Kodak (566)
Konica Minolta (713)
Leica (888)
Mamiya (405)
Minolta (1,452)
Nikon (3,945)
Olympus (1,034)
Panasonic (633)
Pentax (1,519)
Praktica (277)
Sony (1,415)
Voigtländer (263)
Zenit (273)
Not Specified (10,571)
Remember that Canon lenses effectively go back only through 1987 or so, when the EOS came along. Plenty to choose from, but old lenses won't work at all on new Canon models.