NOTE: All notebooks will produce this side effect as they all use TN Film panels. This is normal.
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New 24" iMac owners - test your screen
- Thread starter l33r0y
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NOTE: All notebooks will produce this side effect as they all use TN Film panels. This is normal.
Another report from my local apple store. Now on a 20" aluminum iMac.
OMG - What a huge difference. This monitor s**cks. I owned a 20" for the better part of a year (just sold) and this monitor really does not compare...at all..
Anyways - the colors change dramatically as indicated in the first post.
I do not know diddly about monitors (well maybe a little
) But the 20" monitor and the 24" monitor are completely different.
I did reset and re calibrate both
monitors to the same profiles again and retested using the first posts screen shots etc.
A couple of side notes - ALL the new aluminum iMacs have 2 gig of memory in them...I know they only ship with one - but obviously someone thought in this store to make sure they are all at 2 gig.
The 24" does not appear big at all - and the 20" looks tiny. I do mean tiny after sitting with the 24
PLayed a couple of movie trailers on the 24" - they looked gorgeous - and I do know fair bit about av - very nice detail contrast - could adjust the gamma to compensate for any black crush. With some playing - the 24" has a very, very, nice screen.
The glare fo dark scenes in this highly lit store was noticeable and if watching movies in a bright room or with sun behind you is part of your plan - you will hate the glass screen. For manyother purposes - text, brwosing, anything without a bright sunlit window behind you - you should be happy. Unless you are trying to color correct (photography) and in that case you will want a true color sceeen. This is pretty darn close btw - but not enough to color correct proffesionally...at least I would want a different screen for that if that was my job.
For everyone else - really nice.
Still liking the keyboard - have half as many typos as i usually generate.
Okay only here for another 30 minutes or so - ask any questions if you want!
Therese
OMG - What a huge difference. This monitor s**cks. I owned a 20" for the better part of a year (just sold) and this monitor really does not compare...at all..
Anyways - the colors change dramatically as indicated in the first post.
I do not know diddly about monitors (well maybe a little
) But the 20" monitor and the 24" monitor are completely different.I did reset and re calibrate both
monitors to the same profiles again and retested using the first posts screen shots etc.
A couple of side notes - ALL the new aluminum iMacs have 2 gig of memory in them...I know they only ship with one - but obviously someone thought in this store to make sure they are all at 2 gig.
The 24" does not appear big at all - and the 20" looks tiny. I do mean tiny after sitting with the 24
PLayed a couple of movie trailers on the 24" - they looked gorgeous - and I do know fair bit about av - very nice detail contrast - could adjust the gamma to compensate for any black crush. With some playing - the 24" has a very, very, nice screen.
The glare fo dark scenes in this highly lit store was noticeable and if watching movies in a bright room or with sun behind you is part of your plan - you will hate the glass screen. For manyother purposes - text, brwosing, anything without a bright sunlit window behind you - you should be happy. Unless you are trying to color correct (photography) and in that case you will want a true color sceeen. This is pretty darn close btw - but not enough to color correct proffesionally...at least I would want a different screen for that if that was my job.
For everyone else - really nice.
Still liking the keyboard - have half as many typos as i usually generate.
Okay only here for another 30 minutes or so - ask any questions if you want!
Therese
Another report from my local apple store. Now on a 20" aluminum iMac.
OMG - What a huge difference. This monitor s**cks. I owned a 20" for the better part of a year (just sold) and this monitor really does not compare...at all..
Anyways - the colors change dramatically as indicated in the first post.
I do not know diddly about monitors (well maybe a little
I did reset and re calibrate both
monitors to the same profiles again and retested using the first posts screen shots etc.
A couple of side notes - ALL the new aluminum iMacs have 2 gig of memory in them...I know they only ship with one - but obviously someone thought in this store to make sure they are all at 2 gig.
The 24" does not appear big at all - and the 20" looks tiny. I do mean tiny after sitting with the 24
PLayed a couple of movie trailers on the 24" - they looked gorgeous - and I do know fair bit about av - very nice detail contrast - could adjust the gamma to compensate for any black crush. With some playing - the 24" has a very, very, nice screen.
The glare fo dark scenes in this highly lit store was noticeable and if watching movies in a bright room or with sun behind you is part of your plan - you will hate the glass screen. For manyother purposes - text, brwosing, anything without a bright sunlit window behind you - you should be happy. Unless you are trying to color correct (photography) and in that case you will want a true color sceeen. This is pretty darn close btw - but not enough to color correct proffesionally...at least I would want a different screen for that if that was my job.
For everyone else - really nice.
Still liking the keyboard - have half as many typos as i usually generate.
Okay only here for another 30 minutes or so - ask any questions if you want!
Therese
Many thanks for your assistant, Therese!
One other question, how far back is the actual LCD panel from the glass? Is it right up close to the glass, or does it seem quite recessed?
Nice Post and thanks, I am looking at a TN Panel everyday and didnt know. NEC Monitor, well at least it doesnt have any dead pixels.Open the below attached GIF images in full screen (the thumbnails won't be so obvious)
If you are viewing this on a TN film based panel the colours will change depending on your vertical viewing angle.
- Purple:
From below, the colour will be close to pure blue
From above, it will appear a washed out bright purple
- Green:
From below will be close to dark green
From above a washed out bright yellow
- Cyan:
From below will be almost pure blue
From above almost turquoise
- Grey:
From below will look black
From above white
If you are NOT getting these distortions, you do NOT have a TN film based panel - it will either be S-IPS or S-PVA.
Again, open the attached GIF images in full screen (the thumbnails won't be so obvious)
NOTE: All notebooks will produce this side effect as they all use TN Film panels. This is normal.
Thanks for participating!
L
Hmmmm. How to describe "how far back the panel is"........
Well...the entire front of the iMac is smooth. If you look at the panel portion - non aluminum part...there is a thin aluminum border of aprox .25 of an inch, then about an inch of black border and the screen. If you look at the black border portion, the actual screen is inset about .25" inch - similar to a picture frame.
Hope that helps.
Therese
Well...the entire front of the iMac is smooth. If you look at the panel portion - non aluminum part...there is a thin aluminum border of aprox .25 of an inch, then about an inch of black border and the screen. If you look at the black border portion, the actual screen is inset about .25" inch - similar to a picture frame.
Hope that helps.
Therese
Interesting! Randomly aside, my 17" iMac G5 rev. B also shows the effect (although I'm sure you/someone already knows what panel is in it). It's quite interesting that there's an angle of viewing from below where the violet and turquoise images appear almost identical in shade!
Yes, thanks. I guess most of that .25" is the thickness of the glass itself.
I was concerned the panel was too far set back that would affect monitor calibration, for example.
Ugh!
So am I to understand that Apple put an inferior screen in the 20" model compared to the 24" model? Why would they do that? I wanted to buy the 20" model. The 24" is bigger than I need or want and is more expensive. I already had to get over the whole GPU issue but now I have to deal with a cruddy screen too?
I didn't notice any difference when I checked them out at the Apple Store, but I wasn't really trying to compare them either. Does anyone have anything nice to say about the 20" screen so I can feel better about buying it?
So am I to understand that Apple put an inferior screen in the 20" model compared to the 24" model? Why would they do that? I wanted to buy the 20" model. The 24" is bigger than I need or want and is more expensive. I already had to get over the whole GPU issue but now I have to deal with a cruddy screen too?
I didn't notice any difference when I checked them out at the Apple Store, but I wasn't really trying to compare them either. Does anyone have anything nice to say about the 20" screen so I can feel better about buying it?
I bought a 20" base model the day after they were released and i couldn't be more pleased. My wife and i spent about an hour when we got home surfing and looking at home photos and we were amazed by how nice the screen is. We also didn't notice any difference in the 24" and 20" when side by side at Apple Store but really wasn't looking for anything particular. So anyways, we're happy and hope this helps you.
Hundreds of thousands of people use TN screens every day without issue - it's not the superior screen technology, but that doesn't mean it's junk - it just means that professionals (read: not you, or me for that matter), who rely on excellent color in their work (really true colors, no matter where or how they're looking at the screen) won't want to use the 20". For most all users, the 20" panel is just fine, though not as nice as the 24. Don't spend your time worrying about these nit-picky things, get the iMac, and you'll love it.
Oh how i love my dual LG 24"ers
From below, they all look the same, from above and from the sides the same. Only when you hit really extreme angles do they change and basically become little more hot.
Hopefully the new iMac owners don't have color shifting as the OP suggests.
From below, they all look the same, from above and from the sides the same. Only when you hit really extreme angles do they change and basically become little more hot.
Hopefully the new iMac owners don't have color shifting as the OP suggests.
The 20" Needs Calibration
I picked-up a new 20" today. While it does seem to exhibit the behaviour of a TN panel, the display is still quite good. It looks very bright, saturated, and vivid. Plus it has crisp, clean whites and decent black levels.
On gradients, there's no sudden jump on either end of the spectrum. Lesser TN panels often have an unusually large jump to pure white and almost no discernalbe difference between darker greys and black. The 20" iMac seems to have neither of those problems.
Viewing angles seem to be just fine. Not as good as S-PVA or (especially) S-IPS once you get off-center, but I don't notice any color shifts from a normal viewing position.
And of course the best news is that I have no dead or stuck pixels!
With the positive stuff out of the way, I do have one complaint: Apple blew it with the default ColorSync profile (again).
In a nutshell, the gamma curves they chose wash-out the display and make text look fuzzy. A quick run through the built-in calibrator will make a world of difference. I used expert mode and only just adjusted the brightness (left) sliders for now. It was like getting a new display. When I get a few extra minues, I'll get out my Eye-One Display 2 and create a more accurate profile.
The bottom line is that the new 20" iMac has a very good display, but just like my recent experience with the SR MacBook Pro, it needs proper calibration to look its best.
I picked-up a new 20" today. While it does seem to exhibit the behaviour of a TN panel, the display is still quite good. It looks very bright, saturated, and vivid. Plus it has crisp, clean whites and decent black levels.
On gradients, there's no sudden jump on either end of the spectrum. Lesser TN panels often have an unusually large jump to pure white and almost no discernalbe difference between darker greys and black. The 20" iMac seems to have neither of those problems.
Viewing angles seem to be just fine. Not as good as S-PVA or (especially) S-IPS once you get off-center, but I don't notice any color shifts from a normal viewing position.
And of course the best news is that I have no dead or stuck pixels!
With the positive stuff out of the way, I do have one complaint: Apple blew it with the default ColorSync profile (again).
In a nutshell, the gamma curves they chose wash-out the display and make text look fuzzy. A quick run through the built-in calibrator will make a world of difference. I used expert mode and only just adjusted the brightness (left) sliders for now. It was like getting a new display. When I get a few extra minues, I'll get out my Eye-One Display 2 and create a more accurate profile.
The bottom line is that the new 20" iMac has a very good display, but just like my recent experience with the SR MacBook Pro, it needs proper calibration to look its best.
So, we're not talking early '07 Macbook screen issues here with the viewing angle on the 20", but still noticeable between extremes?
Just verifying my impression of what people are saying here. If my impression is correct, I'm perfectly fine with the 20" as I have a really high quality, non-TN, secondary 20" display it will be hooked to as well.
If it is as noticeable as the macbook, however, I'll have to go with the 24 incher. I love my macbook to death for its portability and usefulness, but I don't want that extreme a difference in a desktop display.
edit: early '07 not 06 lol
Just verifying my impression of what people are saying here. If my impression is correct, I'm perfectly fine with the 20" as I have a really high quality, non-TN, secondary 20" display it will be hooked to as well.
If it is as noticeable as the macbook, however, I'll have to go with the 24 incher. I love my macbook to death for its portability and usefulness, but I don't want that extreme a difference in a desktop display.
edit: early '07 not 06 lol
Pretty much. The MacBook has quite poor viewing angles IMHO. The new 20" iMac is nothing like that. I have to tilt the screeen to what would be an unacceptable viewing angle anyway before I notice any color shifts.
iMac G5 display blows the doors off the my new Macbook
That's interesting; I just tested on my Rev B 20" iMac G5, and there is almost
zero change, just a bit of darkening at the extreme angles. I do remember that
the 20" was said to have a larger viewing angle than the 17".
Conversely, on my Core 2 Duo Macbook, the colors shift exactly as described.
After working on the iMac, it's almost painful going back to the Macbook; the
iMac's screen is so much better and brighter. Long live the iMac G5!
Interesting! Randomly aside, my 17" iMac G5 rev. B also shows the effect (although I'm sure you/someone already knows what panel is in it). It's quite interesting that there's an angle of viewing from below where the violet and turquoise images appear almost identical in shade!
That's interesting; I just tested on my Rev B 20" iMac G5, and there is almost
zero change, just a bit of darkening at the extreme angles. I do remember that
the 20" was said to have a larger viewing angle than the 17".
Conversely, on my Core 2 Duo Macbook, the colors shift exactly as described.
After working on the iMac, it's almost painful going back to the Macbook; the
iMac's screen is so much better and brighter. Long live the iMac G5!
My 24" doesn't have color distortion, just light brightness issues that I assume are from the wretched matte film it has.
That is interesting. The horizontal viewing angle of the 17" is not bad, but the vertical effect is fairly dramatic. Head-on, it's gorgeous, though.
It looks like the question about the 24" LCD type is answered here:
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=4034688&posted=1#post4034688
It looks like it's still S-PVA (what ever happened to MVA?)
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=4034688&posted=1#post4034688
It looks like it's still S-PVA (what ever happened to MVA?)
To entertain anyone not needing 'professional' quality colour, consider my pc that will be retired as soon as I get paid this month
2.08Ghz Athlon. on a 166Mhz FSB - AGP 128m Gfx - 1.5Gb mismatched ram.
17" TFT - definitely TN - those images at full screen showed the colour change instantly I opened them, from a head-on user viewing position. No need to move my head at all!! The top of the screen was dark, the middle vivid and the bottom washed out. Moving around is just like playing with a kid's kalaeidoscope!
iMac ahoy!
2.08Ghz Athlon. on a 166Mhz FSB - AGP 128m Gfx - 1.5Gb mismatched ram.
17" TFT - definitely TN - those images at full screen showed the colour change instantly I opened them, from a head-on user viewing position. No need to move my head at all!! The top of the screen was dark, the middle vivid and the bottom washed out. Moving around is just like playing with a kid's kalaeidoscope!
iMac ahoy!
Apple press said it was a 2600 pro. Windows said it was a mobility 2600 xt, and System profiler said 2600 pro but has mobility 2600 xt part number. Then someone called Apple and the rep. said it was a custom card made just for Apple.
