New Air speculation...next month?

[vm7118]

You're missing my point, which is the question of the necessity of an optical drive enclosed in the laptop on every day basis. For emergencies such as OS-related issues an external drive would do, unless you have these problems regularly and are never able to wait to fix them until you get home and can hook up to an external drive like you do to a power adapter. I personally never had a case in my decade of using laptops where I was in such a situation, and I have far more pressing things to be paranoid about than this one so much that I would want to carry around an internal drive with me every day "just in case!".

On burning CD's and DVD's, yes, I have done it, and my friends/colleagues have, but the real question is how often do you need to do this while on the go/road? If often, this entails you always carry CCROMS and DVD's with you, and indeed must belong to a tiny tiny minority of the laptop using population. Most people burn their stuff while they're at home or work where somebody needs a copy of their stuff and there are optical media available.

I will sum my claim up this way: I bet that many people use their internal optical drives less often while on the road than they use external power outlets. For those who use their drives only while at work or home (like I and my friends/colleagues), an external drive would do, and it's hardly more expensive than buying a second power adapter, which everybody who uses their laptop at work does.

Anyway, if you indeed walk around with cdroms and DVD's and burn them while away from home/work on a regular basis, or if you regularly watch DCD movies while on the go, you indeed shouldn't think about getting a Macbook Air, and I'm secretly wondering why you'd spend time in this forum (don't mean this in a negative, but inquisitive way )

Agreed. I have a mbp 15, but also had an air for about a year. The optical drive on my pro is obsolete... And that'd exactly why I loved the air. Unfortunately it was just too slow (rev a with 4200 rpm disk).

Anything you use your optical drive for, can be done via other means. Corrupt OS installation? That's why macs can easily boot from an external disk over speedy FireWire or USB. Wanna watch a movie before bed? iTunes it. Or bittorrent it. Rip it and make it an efficient 700mb file instead of on clumsy media. You seriously carry around a cd sleeve with discs in it? What are you doing in the MBA forum, then? Like the above poster, I mean no disrespect. Just curious.

The idea of the MBA is to cater to people like me. I'm essentially a minimalist at heart... But I still have full connectivity. Instead of watching DVDs, I stream them from my media server. Instead of playing CDs, I hook up my iPhone (whether it's with a cable, through a dock, wirelessly using the bluetooth and the iskin cerulean, to my cars head unit with a full speed iPod adapter by alpine, or even an fm transmitter). If you still use CDs and DVDs and all that they entail, get a MBP.

Back on topic... I'm waiting for a new MBA to drop so I can sell my pro and get one. I would be satisfied with a migration to 14" to make room for a discrete GPU, as long as the update also included whatever else the guy just mentioned (ie ips panel, 4-8 fb ram, core i7, glass trackpad, etc). That would be my dream computer. You can keep your dinosaur optical drives.

 

[bobjob186]

G4 Cube

MacBook Air


I have the scary feeling that they are going to share one commonality.

 

[Jayomat]

Where have you heard that?

On the flash versus optical comparison, I don't know anybody who needs optical drives for anything except occasional video watching, 90% of which is done at home because that's where the Netflix DVD's arrive. For those traveling, it's easy to create local copies of films on one's hard drive or burn them to a USB flash drive. Do you know of people who actually NEED their internal optical drives on a regular basis?

That statement implies that you don't know anybody who burns Cds.. Which I assumed is incorrect..

Anyway, if you indeed walk around with cdroms and DVD's and burn them while away from home/work on a regular basis, or if you regularly watch DCD movies while on the go, you indeed shouldn't think about getting a Macbook Air, and I'm secretly wondering why you'd spend time in this forum (don't mean this in a negative, but inquisitive way )

The macbook in my sig is my only computer and my whole music is stored on it. I was at friends party last night and brought my macbook with me so that we could listen to my music. However, we could not connect my mb to her "HIFI" system (cable-issue).. Have you ever been on a party without music? If not, two words to discribe it: IT SUCKS! So what did we do? Guess what, we burned a CD with the built-in DVD burner of my mb..

I never said I burn CDs on the go (train e.g.) or carry dvd/cds with me. I just pointed out that many people still do it, and some, including me, do that everywhere you need it. Should I have had a MBA, I would have to carry a external DVD burner with me, "JUST IN CASE"... but I never thought about the fact that we may have a problem and only a dvd burner could save us.

You seriously carry around a cd sleeve with discs in it? What are you doing in the MBA forum, then? Like the above poster, I mean no disrespect. Just curious.

The idea of the MBA is to cater to people like me. I'm essentially a minimalist at heart... But I still have full connectivity. Instead of watching DVDs, I stream them from my media server. Instead of playing CDs, I hook up my iPhone (whether it's with a cable, through a dock, wirelessly using the bluetooth and the iskin cerulean, to my cars head unit with a full speed iPod adapter by alpine, or even an fm transmitter). If you still use CDs and DVDs and all that they entail, get a MBP.

Who said I do? I certainly didn't..

And to adress your question about my reasons to read the MBA forums:

1) I love ultraportables, and the MBA is the only one that runs OSX.

2) I don't have, nor can afford to buy a mercedes. But does that mean I shoudn't be "allowed" to read about it's tech in a magazin, and/or if I "know" enough about it, discuss aspects of it in a forum?

 

[Hellhammer]

What are you doing in the MBA forum, then? Like the above poster, I mean no disrespect. Just curious.

I didn't brought up the discussion of SuperDrive-less MBP, I simply replied with my opinion. I'm looking forward on next gen MBA and no, I don't expect it to have a SuperDrive and tbh, I couldn't care less because I rarely use mine. I don't even want it in MBA. There are people who need and use it and there isn't anything that could really challenge the optical media. I just came up with some examples and now you're flaming me and saying you could do this and this.

I would love to have an option for SuperDrive-less MBP but to be reasonable and honest, I can't see that happening in the near future.

I don't know why we are even talking about this in MBA forum... Let's get back to the actual topic

 

[codehead]

I would love to have an option for SuperDrive-less MBP but to be reasonable and honest, I can't see that happening in the near future.

I do see it happening and think that's what will happen to the Airs. There will be a 11/13, 15 and 17 inch Air line without the optical drives. (As others have said the rumored 11 inch could be the 13 inch without the bezal.) Those who still need the drives with have the present line of MacBook Pros.

Most of the people I know, both at work and friends, don't use the drives any more; they're using USB. So there is a market for computers without the optical drives.

 

[mbisson]

I do see it happening and think that's what will happen to the Airs. There will be a 11/13, 15 and 17 inch Air line without the optical drives. (As others have said the rumored 11 inch could be the 13 inch without the bezal.) Those who still need the drives with have the present line of MacBook Pros.

Most of the people I know, both at work and friends, don't use the drives any more; they're using USB. So there is a market for computers without the optical drives.

There may be some people who have no use for an optical drive however there are lots who still occasionally use one and some who regularly use one.

It makes NO sense for apple to introduce a line of MB Airs that are basically MB Pros but without an optical drive as the profit would be very similar as an optical drive won't be costing Apple that much and it would not be much smaller using the same specced parts. Then they would essentially have two products competing against each other which would lower margins through smaller economies of scale.

NOT going to happen until it is time to stop including them altogether like when the floppy was discontinued. Then you will have a MB Pro line that doesn't include an optical drive. That won't be anytime soon as there is no alternative throwaway media to replace it or ubiquitous and fast wireless access that would make physical media unnecessary.

All this talk about internal optical drives but the MB Air doesn't have one and won't in any update and the MBA is not about to be turned into Apple's mass market machine - its an ultra-portable - deliberately making some sacrifices to end up with a smaller machine than a fully specced one.

 

[hitekalex]

NOT going to happen until it is time to stop including them altogether like when the floppy was discontinued. Then you will have a MB Pro line that doesn't include an optical drive. That won't be anytime soon as there is no alternative throwaway media to replace it

Not quite true.. the cost of USB storage sticks is already approaching the cost of DVD-RW media.. You can easily pick up a mass-produced 4GB/8GB USB stick for under $8/piece. OK, so it's still x3-x4 times higher in pure per-unit cost (rewriteable DVD's are about $2/piece).. But unless you go through dozens and dozens of them - the cost difference is really negligible. Not to mention solid-media storage speed/performance is far superior to optical media, it's much harder to damage, easier to carry, etc.

I attended at a large technology seminar last month - they were giving out the conference content on USB sticks, NOT optical disks. I never ever miss not having a built-in optical drive on my MBA. It is completely unnecessary in a laptop, any laptop - stick a bigger battery in its space.. anything.

 

[flynz4]

Not quite true.. the cost of USB storage sticks is already approaching the cost of DVD-RW media.. You can easily pick up a mass-produced 4GB/8GB USB stick for under $8/piece. OK, so it's still x3-x4 times higher in pure per-unit cost (rewriteable DVD's are about $2/piece).. But unless you go through dozens and dozens of them - the cost difference is really negligible. Not to mention solid-media storage speed/performance is far superior to optical media, it's much harder to damage, easier to carry, etc.

I attended at a large technology seminar last month - they were giving out the conference content on USB sticks, NOT optical disks. I never ever miss not having a built-in optical drive on my MBA. It is completely unnecessary in a laptop, any laptop - stick a bigger battery in its space.. anything.

I personally believe that physical media is dying... but I also acknowledge that many people have individual needs and require an optical drive.

For me, the need for a DVD drive in a laptop has been gone for many years already. I view the inclusion of one in a laptop as a disadvantage as it only offers increased bulk and weight... and provides no value whatsoever for me. This is one major reason why I chose an MBA. Other people have a legitimate need, and simply could not use a laptop without an optical drive. That number is dwindling... but it is still real.

More than anything, I think that available bandwidth drives the need for most people. As networks increase in performance, and ubiquity... the need for physical media drops away.

If my laptop was my sole computer, then I might still want a DVD drive. I have an iMac, and even though I do not use the DVD drive very often, I am glad it is there. Over time, that too will fade, but I think that is several years away. In many ways, it is like the last remaining VHS tape deck that I have set up in the house. I don't want to throw it away, even though I probably haven't used it in 5 years or more.

/Jim

 

[mbisson]

It is completely unnecessary in a laptop, any laptop - stick a bigger battery in its space.. anything.

hitekalex, that is your opinion but not the opinion of many other people. As it is opinion neither is right or wrong but obviously Apple realise that there are still a great number of people who think they still need an optical drive as otherwise they would have done away with optical drives in the recent iMac/MBP refreshes.

I expect you, like most who use this board, are more technically minded/advanced than the majority of people and would probably be considered to be an 'early adopter'. I would place myself in this bracket. Such people are also 'early discarders' as a result.

As Jim said above I agree that the format is dying but its not dead yet and it will just take a while longer before Apple takes the same move with it as it did with Floppy Disks. The only time I have used the drive in the past 6 years is for software disks (Snow Leopard etc.)

Really though this conversation thread is really something that should be undertaken in the MB Pro or general forums. Given the MB Air already lacks an optical drive it is rather pointless here.

Getting back to the topic, I believe that all this started as an argument for the 'hoped for' update of the MB Air including a larger screen size.

The argument that you don't need an optical drive so a larger MB Air makes sense does not work as the MB Air is not aimed at people who do not need an optical drive. It is aimed at people who need a more portable machine, whilst being willing to accept some compromises in specs as a result.

Introducing a larger screen size would make no sense as the 13" MB/MB Pro would then be more portable than the larger screened MB Air.

 

[MrFlynn]

At the D8 conference in June of this year, Jobs said he believed the Air was the way things were headed...no optical drive. He thinks the optical drive is going the way of the floppy.

I could see optical drives becoming external drives sooner then later in Apple's product line. If you listen to his talk (very interesting and available on iTunes) you really get a sense that he's proud of the Air. Anyone who thinks Apple is going to do away with it is crazy. If anything, he'll make a stronger move towards removal of optical. He doesn't think anyone needs it anymore. And think about it...its self serving. Eliminate the drive, and your content comes from iTunes...

He looks at the optical the way he looks at Blu-Ray...no way he's putting BluRay in the computer if he's planning on doing away with optical drives.

 

[mbisson]

At the D8 conference in June of this year, Jobs said he believed the Air was the way things were headed...no optical drive. He thinks the optical drive is going the way of the floppy.

No one here is disputing that, from what I have read, its just that the discussion is inapplicable to the speculation about a product that already does not have an optical drive and what a future revision of that product may or may not include.

I could see optical drives becoming external drives sooner then later in Apple's product line. If you listen to his talk (very interesting and available on iTunes) you really get a sense that he's proud of the Air. Anyone who thinks Apple is going to do away with it is crazy. If anything, he'll make a stronger move towards removal of optical. He doesn't think anyone needs it anymore. And think about it...its self serving. Eliminate the drive, and your content comes from iTunes...

He looks at the optical the way he looks at Blu-Ray...no way he's putting BluRay in the computer if he's planning on doing away with optical drives.

Again this is just repeating something that no-one has actually disagreed with. Its only a matter of time before Apple does away with optical drives but it makes sense that it will be a removal of optical, as you suggest, from current products, not introducing a alternative line of computers without optical drives that directly compete with current models.

If anyone has any different reasoning why a larger MB Air makes sense I would love to hear it but so far the arguments provide more support for MB Pros dropping optical drives than for a larger MB Air.

 

[macbook123]

If anyone has any different reasoning why a larger MB Air makes sense I would love to hear it but so far the arguments provide more support for MB Pros dropping optical drives than for a larger MB Air.

As you said, it will take a while for MBP's to drop the optical drive as too many people still cling to it. Hence there is already need for a 15" MBA. I don't agree with your weight comparison to the 13" MBP. I'd rather use and carry a computer with more screen real estate than one with an optical drive that I never use, even if they were the same weight. It's all a matter of priorities.

 

[Ice Dragon]

I had a discussion a while back in the MR chat about how if you could upgrade an Apple product how would you do so although you would have to use Apple expectations (which might not be the max).

4 GB RAM should probably be standard with an option to possibly to go 8 GB. Processors we could probably go on 2.4 GHz (low-end) and 2.66 GHz (high-end) as with the Mac Mini and 13" MBP. Move from 9400M to 320M on both and have a 5,400 rpm drive standard on the low-end with an upgrade to 7,200 rpm, and a 128 GB on the high-end with a chance to upgrade to 256 GB.

 

[mbisson]

I don't agree with your weight comparison to the 13" MBP. I'd rather use and carry a computer with more screen real estate than one with an optical drive that I never use, even if they were the same weight. It's all a matter of priorities.

My comparison with the 13" MBP was not made in consideration of weight but dimensions. Sure some savings could be made in thickness but the width and depth of a 15" MB Air would be the same as a 15" MB Pro. The larger the dimensions the larger a bag/case needed which goes against it being ultra-portable.

Whilst there will be other people like you that would love to see a larger MB Air style machine and therefore making sense from a user perspective, from a business perspective for Apple I don't see it making such sense.

There is only one size of MB Air for the same reason there is only one size of MB:

- The MB Pro is made for those for whom features are important (including the screen size);
- The MB is made for those for whom cost is important; &
- The MB Air is made for those for whom portability is important

Having different sized MB Airs would then confuse the product offering and make it more difficult for Apple to maintain margins and achieve minimum necessary sales levels for each model (The number of people willing to sacrifice on specs to have a lighter machine and still pay 30 - 50% is going to be limited) I'd expect there would be less willing to do this for a larger MB Air than the current model given that may of them are looking for the smallest/lightest machine possible.

 

[mbisson]

I had a discussion a while back in the MR chat about how if you could upgrade an Apple product how would you do so although you would have to use Apple expectations (which might not be the max).

4 GB RAM should probably be standard with an option to possibly to go 8 GB. Processors we could probably go on 2.4 GHz (low-end) and 2.66 GHz (high-end) as with the Mac Mini and 13" MBP. Move from 9400M to 320M on both and have a 5,400 rpm drive standard on the low-end with an upgrade to 7,200 rpm, and a 128 GB on the high-end with a chance to upgrade to 256 GB.

This is along the exact lines I was thinking. The only fly in the ointment being the processors as there are no higher spec 17W C2Ds made by Intel than those already used in the MB Air. The Mac mini uses 25w parts and I assume that these would be a no go due to heat/cooling issues.

 

[ninjaslim]

http://gear.ign.com/articles/111/1115932p1.html
http://www.dailytech.com/UPDATE+App...rings+at+September+1st+Event/article19442.htm

Any possibility of Apple announcing the new Macbook Air at this event?

 

[entatlrg]

YES, I'm going to guess a very good chance. If not we better buckle down until January is my worry.

I'm going to predict a new re-designed MacBook Air, 11 and 13" options, will take on the 'squared look' of the iPhone 4, longer battery life, 4gb ram and more.

 

[ninjaslim]

YES, I'm going to guess a very good chance. If not we better buckle down until January is my worry.

I'm going to predict a new re-designed MacBook Air, 11 and 13" options, will take on the 'squared look' of the iPhone 4, longer battery life, 4gb ram and more.

In my opinion, Apple won't release a 13" MacBook Air. As long as it has 4 GB of memory, a decent amount of hard drive space, a discreet graphics, and a modern Core processors (not a Core 2 Duo or similar), I'm down. Then, I won't be getting an iMac (huge difference).

 

[PsyD4Me]

http://gear.ign.com/articles/111/1115932p1.html
http://www.dailytech.com/UPDATE+App...rings+at+September+1st+Event/article19442.htm

Any possibility of Apple announcing the new Macbook Air at this event?

Unless the air has an integrated iPod dock, lol I have lost hope for this event. Clearly, even from the photo adverts for the events it's all about music

 

[ninjaslim]

I think the event will be music-centered, but they may just throw the MacBook Air update in there as a quickie...

 

[fuzzielitlpanda]

during last year's media event, the keynote started off with a refresh of the macbook pros. i'm hoping that we see something similar with the mba

 

[mbisson]

during last year's media event, the keynote started off with a refresh of the macbook pros. i'm hoping that we see something similar with the mba

Are you sure, I thought the MB Pros got updated last summer before the September media event. The Macrumors Buyer's guide also seems to suggest it was last June.

However I'm wondering whether a MBA revision may be made via simply updating the Apple Store. After all wasn't this how the latest Mac mini arrived despite the complete redesign.

The only difference I see was that there were shortages reported of the Mac Mini before it was updated and I have not seen any similar reports for the MB Air. Given that the MB Air sells in lower numbers though, maybe such shortages wouldn't be as noticeable.

Heres hoping!

 

[fuzzielitlpanda]

sorry i must have mixed it up with another event, probably WWDC 2009. i just remember apple announcing new laptops at an event that had nothing to do with laptops and it completely surprised everyone.

 

[ninjaslim]

sorry i must have mixed it up with another event, probably WWDC 2009. i just remember apple announcing new laptops at an event that had nothing to do with laptops and it completely surprised everyone.

I hope this is the case, otherwise I will be very pissed.

 

[hitekalex]

I hope this is the case, otherwise I will be very pissed.

You should prepare to be very pissed then. Highly doubt there will be any mention of Air at Sept 1 event.