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New Apple TV DOES Handle 1080P
- Thread starter newagemac
- Start date
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That's really interesting and something I've wondered about - is there any data out there you can point me to? I'd love to know more about this.
I think the only way to test this will be visually. The Apple TV will certainly sync with the TV at 60Hz (well 59.94Hz), whether it plays every frame of a 60fps clip or just doubles every second frame. 30fps material will just double every frame and 24fps material will use 3:2 pulldown to get to 60Hz. The TV will likely report 60Hz every time. (A separate video processor might give more information?)
Apple's A4 is based upon the ARM Cortex A8, not the A9. In any case, the CPU core isn't the key factor, it's the GPU core that is embedded in the A4 chip which is reported to be the PowerVR SGX 535.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
phillipk, our "fight" started with me asking could someone test to see if the
TV could do better than specs by playing 1080p- exactly what is going on by participants in this thread. Then you jumped in slinging a whole bunch of crap about why I shouldn't care or want it." A bunch of other cheerleaders jumped in with you.I offered logical responses to some of those posts, but you would think I called your kid ugly or something. That's what made me so sensitive to his post in this thread (which is about hunting for the limits of what the new
TV can do, not trying to make it perfect for everyone with whatever limitations it has). I'm tired of that fight. And since you so passionately argued against why I should be interested in 1080p playback, why are you here in a thread about 1080p playback? Shouldn't you be bashing this whole effort as "hardware overkill"- especially if it turns out that anyone can get 1080p out of the device? (both questions are rhetorical, I don't really care to read your answers).
That's great! Best I've seen from you in the last 30 hours or so.
If you want to execute some constructive tests like the others, I look forward to seeing your posts. If you want to continue to bash me- for looking for exactly what others in this thread are trying to figure out- more power to you.
newagemac wrote a clarification of this post.
What he meant was Apple does not rip a Blu-ray disk as their source. They get it from a higher quality master and most likely the same master used by Blu-ray.
When you remove an intermediate step, you get a better quality file.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Some HDTVs show frames per second. I bought my Mom a Samsung 1080p HDTV that shows that. But I don't have an
TV (version 2) for testing myself. The outcome of these tests decide if I'm buying 2.This thread was started about decoding and not about playback.
And as usual, you didn't read my next post, you just bashed me.
Plus the first clip isn't actually 60fps -- it was captured at 60fps but downconverted before/during uploading to Vimeo. So the actual clip is only 29.97fps (still better than original Apple TV, but not by much!).
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
OK. Can anyone locate a downloadable 720p60fps file that has not been converted to 720p30 in the render?
If the
TV is currently capped at 720p output (regardless of source file), but- as we've seen in this thread- it can indeed do better than specs (not a huge surprise, the old one could do a little better than specs too), maybe it can max out the 720p spec with 60fps? A definitive test of 720p60fps encode would do the trick.720p60fps would be a BIG deal over the published specs- especially for anything that involves a lot of fast action or camera movements (like shooting sports with a 720p60fps HD camcorder).
So I have been using Boxee and Windows Media Center until now. All my Blu Rays are ripped as perfect copy ISOs and as well as untouched MKVs (yes im doubled up because i was trying to find best process for me). I was hesitant to move to the AppleTV because I didnt want to have to convert and compress my blu rays. For those more experienced than I, this is my question:
Now that we know the ATV2 will handle 1080P relatively high bit rate content, what would be the best process for converting Blu Rays to as close to the original content as possible? I know I cant use MKV so what would be the second best container to use? What programs would you suggest? Is there a way to do what I do with the MKVs but just to the MP4 or MV4 container?
Right now I use MakeMKV on my PC. Simple. I mount the ISO i created when ripped using AnyDVD HD open MakeMKV and i get my MKV 1 hour later.
I know this has been discussed but most of those discussions involve compressing to 720P or less for old AppleTV and iPad, etc.
Curious on your process or what you expect to be your process. Thanks.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Can the PowerVR SGX 535 deliver 1080p/i to an HDTV? Or is it hardware capped at 720p?
Maybe just that one clip? Go to Vimeo and search for 60fps. You will get hundreds of videos recorded in 60fps. Unless Vimeo downconverts it (which i dont think it does since you can find 1080p content, etc) another one of the clips should be true 60fps
How about this one
http://vimeo.com/14669993
I'll download it and play it in Plex on my MacMini which should give me info on fps. If it is above 30 then I'll test on the ATV2.
UPDATE: Plex showed it hovering around 30 fps with a max of around 30.17 from what I saw. ATV2 played it fine but doesn't seem to be anything out of the norm.
Why don't you just create a 60fps video using Quicktime? Start with a series of still frames that are numbered 1 to 60 and then use Quicktime to create a video using those frames which will display a different number for each frame. If you want you could overlay the numbers with a complex scene to test the decoding quality along with the framerate numbers.
This 720p 60fps video played back perfectly.
General
Complete name :
/Users/Desktop/Stevegarfield-Cars720p60fpsKodakZi8Test2759.MOV
Format :
MPEG-4
Format profile :
QuickTime
Codec ID :
qt
File size :
14.3 MiB
Duration :
6s 306ms
Overall bit rate :
19.1 Mbps
Movie name/More :
KODAK Zi8 Pocket Video Camera
Encoded date :
UTC 2009-08-19 09:41:59
Tagged date :
UTC 2009-08-19 09:41:59
Origin :
Digital Camera
AMBA :
Video
ID :
1
Format :
AVC
Format/Info :
Advanced Video Codec
Format profile :
Main@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC :
Yes
Format settings, ReFrames :
4 frames
Format settings, GOP :
M=3, N=15
Codec ID :
avc1
Codec ID/Info :
Advanced Video Coding
Duration :
6s 306ms
Bit rate mode :
Variable
Bit rate :
18.9 Mbps
Maximum bit rate :
10.6 Mbps
Width :
1 280 pixels
Height :
720 pixels
Display aspect ratio :
16:9
Frame rate mode :
Variable
Frame rate :
59.940 fps
Minimum frame rate :
59.920 fps
Maximum frame rate :
59.960 fps
Color space :
YUV
Chroma subsampling :
4:2:0
Bit depth :
8 bits
Scan type :
Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) :
0.342
Stream size :
14.2 MiB (99%)
Title :
Ambarella AVC / Ambarella AVC
Language :
English
Encoded date :
UTC 2009-08-19 09:41:59
Tagged date :
UTC 2009-08-19 09:41:59
General
Complete name :
/Users/Desktop/Stevegarfield-Cars720p60fpsKodakZi8Test2759.MOV
Format :
MPEG-4
Format profile :
QuickTime
Codec ID :
qt
File size :
14.3 MiB
Duration :
6s 306ms
Overall bit rate :
19.1 Mbps
Movie name/More :
KODAK Zi8 Pocket Video Camera
Encoded date :
UTC 2009-08-19 09:41:59
Tagged date :
UTC 2009-08-19 09:41:59
Origin :
Digital Camera
AMBA :
Video
ID :
1
Format :
AVC
Format/Info :
Advanced Video Codec
Format profile :
Main@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC :
Yes
Format settings, ReFrames :
4 frames
Format settings, GOP :
M=3, N=15
Codec ID :
avc1
Codec ID/Info :
Advanced Video Coding
Duration :
6s 306ms
Bit rate mode :
Variable
Bit rate :
18.9 Mbps
Maximum bit rate :
10.6 Mbps
Width :
1 280 pixels
Height :
720 pixels
Display aspect ratio :
16:9
Frame rate mode :
Variable
Frame rate :
59.940 fps
Minimum frame rate :
59.920 fps
Maximum frame rate :
59.960 fps
Color space :
YUV
Chroma subsampling :
4:2:0
Bit depth :
8 bits
Scan type :
Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) :
0.342
Stream size :
14.2 MiB (99%)
Title :
Ambarella AVC / Ambarella AVC
Language :
English
Encoded date :
UTC 2009-08-19 09:41:59
Tagged date :
UTC 2009-08-19 09:41:59
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Again, I don't have an (new version)
TV yet. I'm depending on others who do have one to get the answers I seek, which then drives whether I'll buy 2 of them.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
WOW! That's freaking great!
Thank you for executing that test. Did you happen to have an HDTV that shows if that video is coming out of the
TV at 60fps?It could be throwing out frames on the playback (actually passing it as 720p30fps), much like it appears to be decoding 1080p but only pushing out a down-converted 720p version that actually flows to the HDTV. If your HDTV doesn't show that kind of info, could anyone else do that test?
I will say this, every 1080p video I've played looked significantly better, even downgraded, than the 720 files I've been testing.
WOW! That's freaking great!
Thank you for executing that test. Did you happen to have an HDTV that shows if that video is coming out of the
No my Tv wont give that info here is the file is anyone would like to try it.
http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Stev...evegarfield-Cars720p60fpsKodakZi8Test2759.MOV
It may not make any difference since I'm not sure whether the PowerVR supplies the hardware drivers that are needed for the HDMI output. It's possible that the final video output stage is in some other chip.
In any case, Apple is most likely the only one who knows one way or the other. As for iTunes allowing 1080p encoded video to be streamed to the new Apple TV that could change in the next version of iTunes since they usually block any content that doesn't conform to the published specs. That's the way it is on the iPad, iTunes won't transfer such content to the iPad but if you use a third-party file transfer app you can play 1080p content on the iPad.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Really? Now that's certainly something. You got anyone else there with you to do an impromptu, blind head-to-head (same video file like your Avatar one coded for 1080p vs. a 720p30fps version)?
Your own eval makes sense in that a higher quality source file being down-converted should max out the lower quality output. But I would have guessed that a 720p native render would do just as well. So that's definitely interesting.
Are you sure that your HDTV is showing that it is receiving a 1080p render delivered as a 1280x720 (720p) file? You're hitting the "info" or similar button while the video is playing back?
WOW! That's freaking great!
Thank you for executing that test. Did you happen to have an HDTV that shows if that video is coming out of the
It could be throwing out frames on the playback (actually passing it as 720p30fps), much like it appears to be decoding 1080p but only pushing out a down-converted 720p version that actually flows to the HDTV. If your HDTV doesn't show that kind of info, could anyone else do that test?
I think most TVs either do 24 or 30 fps. 1080i60 is a progressive pulldown, but I'm not familiar with 720p60 or why you'd even want it.
Plex showed 60fps and ATV2 played it fine. Took a little longer to buffer than the others but played.