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Jorbanead

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Aug 31, 2018
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Jorbanead

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Aug 31, 2018
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Looks like catered food event for workers in shipping. Not exactly a launch party.

launch party may be the wrong word. It’s a party to start mass production of new macs.

The translation of the banner reads “a ceremony to pray to the god for a good yield” (in crops, but in this case I guess ARM Macs)
 

JPack

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Mar 27, 2017
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For context, the majority of Mac products are assembled by Quanta. That's why your MacBook comes from "Tech-Pro" in Shanghai if you check UPS tracking.

The "yield" on the banner refers to order allocation. The Foxconn staff are hoping for a larger allocation of orders from Apple. This is based on performance and other metrics.
 

Jorbanead

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For context, the majority of Mac products are assembled by Quanta. That's why your MacBook comes from "Tech-Pro" in Shanghai if you check UPS tracking.

Apple has used both Quanta, Foxconn, and Pegatron for final assembly, but they often ship out of China to the US.
 

JPack

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Mar 27, 2017
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November is more likely. If MP began recently, the ramp up period is typically a month before the product ships to consumers. Apple can't keep the MacBook Air, MacBook Pro 13", or the iMac in stock either. There's a 2-4 week lead time for all those products due to demand. So Apple doesn't need to immediately refresh their lineup.
 

Jorbanead

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What do you guys think.. announcement at the October iPhone event or a separate event in November?
November is more likely. If MP began recently, the ramp up period is typically a month before the product ships to consumers. Apple can't keep the MacBook Air, MacBook Pro 13", or the iMac in stock either. There's a 2-4 week lead time for all those products due to demand. So Apple doesn't need to immediately refresh their lineup.


If production started mid-September, and their next event is mid-October, that would be about a month. And they don’t have to ship right away either, they could announce it at the October event and ship in November. This is also assuming they’re only using Foxconn for assembly and not other companies who may have started final assembly earlier. Quantas and Pegatron also make macs too AFAIK.

It’s partly wishful thinking, but they very well could announce the first Apple Silicon Mac at the October event and ship early November.
 

Realityck

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Nov 9, 2015
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If production started mid-September, and their next event is mid-October, that would be about a month. And they don’t have to ship right away either, they could announce it at the October event and ship in November. This is also assuming they’re only using Foxconn for assembly and not other companies who may have started final assembly earlier. Quantas and Pegatron also make macs too AFAIK.

It’s partly wishful thinking, but they very well could announce the first Apple Silicon Mac at the October event and ship early November.
To be honest I thought they might have a A14 14" MacBook that they would announce in Sept event. But then they don't really offer much aside from iPad 8, iPad Air 4, and the watches. Because they didn't even bother to show off a replacement for the 3 year old Apple TV 4K (ARM 10x), it go me thinking that perhaps Apple needs some time to ramp up ARM production greatly to utilize across their lines. It's very possible that the pandemic and yields of ARM's they will be late with everything. Think about it, with the mobile devices using ARM's, and their computer lines using intel, how in the hell is ARM production suppose to meet all those goals with everything using ARMs? :)

Are producing Mac's as important to Apple as Phones/iPads?
 

JPack

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Mar 27, 2017
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If production started mid-September, and their next event is mid-October, that would be about a month. And they don’t have to ship right away either, they could announce it at the October event and ship in November. This is also assuming they’re only using Foxconn for assembly and not other companies who may have started final assembly earlier. Quantas and Pegatron also make macs too AFAIK.

It’s partly wishful thinking, but they very well could announce the first Apple Silicon Mac at the October event and ship early November.

The assembly lines are currently running at full capacity just producing existing Mac products. That's why I mentioned the extended lead time for current products.

Apple could announce replacements for the 13" MacBook Pro and iMac in October, but it wouldn't make much financial sense. Existing products, which are flying off the shelves, would be disrupted without a replacement until November.

Until ARM Macs are fully ramped and ready to ship in abundance, I don't think Apple will announce. Why rock the boat? People on this forum may consider Intel-based Macs as brown bananas. But Apple can't keep up with demand of these bananas.
 

Falhófnir

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Aug 19, 2017
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The assembly lines are currently running at full capacity just producing existing Mac products. That's why I mentioned the extended lead time for current products.

Apple could announce replacements for the 13" MacBook Pro and iMac in October, but it wouldn't make much financial sense. Existing products, which are flying off the shelves, would be disrupted without a replacement until November.

Until ARM Macs are fully ramped and ready to ship in abundance, I don't think Apple will announce. Why rock the boat? People on this forum may consider Intel-based Macs as brown bananas. But Apple can't keep up with demand of these bananas.
Didn't stop them with the iPad Air 4, sure that's lost them a bunch of 11" Pro and Air 3 orders, nor with the iPhone X and XR in previous years. Think an announcement at the iPhone event on the 13th of next month is perfectly plausible, if far from definite.

The biggest reason I can think of for the first AS Macs not to be announced at the iPhone event is Apple often like their most important product to get the limelight to itself, but in this case it might be no bad thing if a lot of media coverage mentions the new macs alongside the far more popular iPhones, to maximise exposure. I suppose with 4 iPhones, and likely at least 2 Mac models it would be a more packed event than Apple usually go for.
 

JPack

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Mar 27, 2017
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Didn't stop them with the iPad Air 4, sure that's lost them a bunch of 11" Pro and Air 3 orders, nor with the iPhone X and XR in previous years. Think an announcement at the iPhone event on the 13th of next month is perfectly plausible, if far from definite.

The biggest reason I can think of for the first AS Macs not to be announced at the iPhone event is Apple often like their most important product to get the limelight to itself, but in this case it might be no bad thing if a lot of media coverage mentions the new macs alongside the far more popular iPhones, to maximise exposure. I suppose with 4 iPhones, and likely at least 2 Mac models it would be a more packed event than Apple usually go for.

iPad Air 3 - Not sure many people were buying the Air 3 to begin with. For school or home, consumers bought the $329 model. For work, people bought the iPad Pro. The Air 3 was stuck in the middle like iPhone 8 Plus.

iPhone X and XR - Apple continues to sell previous iPhone models. You can't buy the 2019 MacBook Air. I don't think anyone expects Apple to sell the Intel-based MacBook Pro 13" along the Apple Silicon model.
 

Realityck

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Nov 9, 2015
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The biggest reason I can think of for the first AS Macs not to be announced at the iPhone event is Apple often like their most important product to get the limelight to itself, but in this case it might be no bad thing if a lot of media coverage mentions the new macs alongside the far more popular iPhones, to maximise exposure. I suppose with 4 iPhones, and likely at least 2 Mac models it would be a more packed event than Apple usually go for.
In a another thread I mentioned that January is a good month to market new technology because that is when CES normally happens and wall street is anxious to see where the tech industry is going. So if you want media coverage before Christmas you won't have as much attention by consumers. CES is essentially cancelled except for some online meetings.
 
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motomotomoto

macrumors regular
Aug 3, 2018
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Think about it, with the mobile devices using ARM's, and their computer lines using intel, how in the hell is ARM production suppose to meet all those goals with everything using ARMs? :)

don't you think apple would have thought about this before committing to ARM? it's hard to even imagine that this could be a serious issue outside of temporary disruptions due to COVID or other unforeseen events.
 

CWallace

macrumors G5
Aug 17, 2007
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Seattle, WA
It's very possible that the pandemic and yields of ARM's they will be late with everything.

TSMC's A14 SoC production should be approaching 50 million units a month now based on projected wafer production plans and yields. iPhone will soak up 65-75 million units by the end of the year and iPad Air (2020) a few million more, but TSMC could conceivably have capacity to also make a few million "A14M" SoCs for ASi Mac shipments this year.


Didn't stop them with the iPad Air 4, sure that's lost them a bunch of 11" Pro...orders.

I am sure the iPad Air (2020) is winning over customers who were looking at the iPad Pro 11 (2020) for Pencil 2 support and the edge-to-edge screen, but the iPad Pro 11 (2020) still has things to offer over the iPad Air (2020) like a better camera setup, LIDAR support, a better display (120Hz ProMotion) and the A12Z should still beat an A14 on multicore and (especially) graphics tasks.

Of course, Apple and TSMC will likely have the A14X ready by early 2021 to bring "order to the force" in terms of the next iPad Pro upgrades (with the 12.9" getting MiniLED, as well).
 
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Jorbanead

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Aug 31, 2018
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The assembly lines are currently running at full capacity just producing existing Mac products. That's why I mentioned the extended lead time for current products.

Apple could announce replacements for the 13" MacBook Pro and iMac in October, but it wouldn't make much financial sense. Existing products, which are flying off the shelves, would be disrupted without a replacement until November.

Until ARM Macs are fully ramped and ready to ship in abundance, I don't think Apple will announce. Why rock the boat? People on this forum may consider Intel-based Macs as brown bananas. But Apple can't keep up with demand of these bananas.

Just curious how do you know they’re at max capacity? Unless you have insider knowledge I’m unaware of, the delayed shipping estimates for those macs could also be a result of them switching over production to new macs, so they have less inventory and production lines working on the machines as they transition over.

Also the new Mac could be just the MacBook so it wouldn’t interfere with any existing intel macs. Or if it’s the MBP it could just be one model and they’ll still ship the intel versions for a few months in addition to the new ones like they did during the last transition.
 
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Jorbanead

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Aug 31, 2018
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TSMC's A14 SoC production should be approaching 50 million units a month now based on projected wafer production plans and yields. iPhone will soak up 65-75 million units by the end of the year and iPad Air (2020) a few million more, but TSMC could conceivably have capacity to also make a few million "A14M" SoCs for ASi Mac shipments this year.

Are those projections considering the possible decline in iPhone sales as we are in a recession? Just curious.
 

Dhonk

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Mar 2, 2015
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I'm expecting $799 student priced 12" MacBook to capture online learning, with perhaps an upgraded option or two for more cores. But I think they'll save more of the upgraded processors for the pros and imacs
 

JPack

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Mar 27, 2017
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Just curious how do you know they’re at max capacity? Unless you have insider knowledge I’m unaware of, the delayed shipping estimates for those macs could also be a result of them switching over production to new macs, so they have less inventory and production lines working on the machines as they transition over.

Also the new Mac could be just the MacBook so it wouldn’t interfere with any existing intel macs. Or if it’s the MBP it could just be one model and they’ll still ship the intel versions for a few months in addition to the new ones like they did during the last transition.

Apple reported an explosive 22% growth for Macs in their June quarter. Tim Cook admitted they were having trouble getting Macs to consumers. And that doesn't include back to school demand yet. We've also witnessed extended lead times since early this year. Nobody expects this level of growth to continue through 2021. So it wouldn't be reasonable to expect Apple to handicap current sales for a future product.

Kuo expects the first wave of ARM products to be the MacBook Pro 13", MacBook Air, and iMac. He believes the Intel-based MacBook Pro will be discontinued upon the launch of ARM replacement.
 

Falhófnir

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Aug 19, 2017
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iPad Air 3 - Not sure many people were buying the Air 3 to begin with. For school or home, consumers bought the $329 model. For work, people bought the iPad Pro. The Air 3 was stuck in the middle like iPhone 8 Plus.

iPhone X and XR - Apple continues to sell previous iPhone models. You can't buy the 2019 MacBook Air. I don't think anyone expects Apple to sell the Intel-based MacBook Pro 13" along the Apple Silicon model.
Evidently it gets enough sales to warrant an extensively redesigned replacement though? I'm not sure how exactly their sales modelling goes with this but I feel like a lot of Air 3 customers might be redirected to the iPad 8, while the Air 4 gets a big chunk of its customer base from those who might have gone for the 11" Pro (one reason I wonder if the 11" Pro will either be phased out, or shifted significantly up in price and feature set, and maybe slightly in size).

With the iPhone X and XR even if they are selling previous iPhones, the point was Apple will lose sales of those with people waiting for the new model, just as announcing an Arm iMac now would hit sales of the Intel equivalent for a month or so. If anything I would have thought they would be more cautious with the iPhone as it's much more important than the Mac, and in particular we know Mac desktop sales are under 20% of total Mac sales so losing a few 21.5" iMac sales probably wouldn't be all that big a deal. The 13.3" MacBook Pro, and particularly the Air might be a little more disruptive, as those are probably the top two selling Macs.

In a another thread I mentioned that January is a good month to market new technology because that is when CES normally happens and wall street is anxious to see where the tech industry is going. So if you want media coverage before Christmas you won't have as much attention by consumers. CES is essentially cancelled except for some online meetings.
In this instance I was thinking for the broader consumer, who might not read too much tech news, but would probably see about an iPhone announcement (which gets a mention in the broader media each year) and anything that goes along with it. Currently I'm still taking Tim Cook's goal of launch by the end of 2020 at face value as we haven't heard otherwise from anyone else, though if someone like Ming Chi Kuo popped up and said manufacturing delays have pushed the launches back into next year I'd adjust my expectations accordingly.

Interestingly I'm still seeing late October shipping for the two models Kuo implicated to launch first (two port 13" MacBook Pro and 21.5" iMac) all other models seem to be in stock or have much shorter delays. Again, I don't necessarily want to jump on that as proof positive, but I do think it's worth bearing in mind when considering if an announcement on 13th October is likely.

I am sure the iPad Air (2020) is winning over customers who were looking at the iPad Pro 11 (2020) for Pencil 2 support and the edge-to-edge screen, but the iPad Pro 11 (2020) still has things to offer over the iPad Air (2020) like a better camera setup, LIDAR support, a better display (120Hz ProMotion) and the A12Z should still beat an A14 on multicore and (especially) graphics tasks.

Of course, Apple and TSMC will likely have the A14X ready by early 2021 to bring "order to the force" in terms of the next iPad Pro upgrades (with the 12.9" getting MiniLED, as well).
Yes, as above I think the 11" Pro certainly would be on the radar for consumers, and therefore might lose the biggest chunk of sales to the Air 4 until the next generation brings significant new features. Pros who actually want the extra features might be a surprisingly small cohort of customers for this model - I can imagine digital artists and anyone who wants a laptop replacement device will tend towards the 13" model, with price of little consideration. The 11" being well below the $1,000 psychological barrier probably appeals to just consumer iPad buyers a bit more, though.
 

CWallace

macrumors G5
Aug 17, 2007
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Seattle, WA
Are those projections considering the possible decline in iPhone sales as we are in a recession? Just curious.

A mix of the economy, the iPhone 12 now shipping in mid-to-late October (so it will lose a few weeks worth of sales window compared to previous models that shipped in late September) and retail store restrictions for COVID (for those who want to see the models in person before making a purchase decision).
 
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Jorbanead

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I don't think anyone expects Apple to sell the Intel-based MacBook Pro 13" along the Apple Silicon model.

I believe during the last transition they had a period of time where they sold both PPC and Intel macs. It was only for a short time.

Also the first AS Mac could also be a MacBook. So it’s not competing with any other product.
 
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