New ARM Macs Start Mass Production

[deconstruct60]

Apple reported an explosive 22% growth for Macs in their June quarter. Tim Cook admitted they were having trouble getting Macs to consumers. And that doesn't include back to school demand yet.

In the USA ... err no. Yes it does include back to school demand. The government threw gobs of money to buy computers for more than a few students. For K-12 there was a large bubble demand just from institutions.
Not the traditional "back to school" market dynamics this year because of the pandemic.

Throw on top a product refresh timing this year not being what it was last year and the year-over-year numbers are substantively going to be skewed by context.

 

[Jouls]

I believe during the last transition they had a period of time where they sold both PPC and Intel macs. It was only for a short time.

Apple did not produce PPC and Intel versions of the same model at the same time. And they did not sell them in parallel in their store.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...licon-mac-release-order.2248718/post-28755365

 

[i.am.not.a.hipster]

A new photo has emerged which shows a party at the Foxconn factory (where final assembly for Apple products are produced). The banner says both “Mac” and “iMac” specifically have started mass production.

Its rumored that these are all Apple Silicon macs.

Here is the article:https://the8-bit.com/images-surface...oduction-launch-ceremony-for-apples-arm-macs/

Actually, the big red banner in the photo says "Mac and iMac New Products Production Launch Ceremony". Note the missing word "NEW" in your description. I'd go by the actual red banner and say this clearly shows there are new models of Mac and iMac.

They were also burning some incense to pray to the heavens for good luck and probably steady hands and fingers quasi-slave assembling our beloved iProducts from this humanistic and loving company called Apple.

 

[Jorbanead]

Actually, the big red banner in the photo says "Mac and iMac New Products Production Launch Ceremony". Note the missing word "NEW" in your description. I'd go by the actual red banner and say this clearly shows there are new models of Mac and iMac.

They were also burning some incense to pray to the heavens for good luck and probably steady hands and fingers quasi-slave assembling our beloved iProducts from this humanistic and loving company called Apple.

I think that’s a little bit of semantics because why would they start mass production on an “old” product?

 

[i.am.not.a.hipster]

I think that’s a little bit of semantics because why would they start mass production on an “old” product?

MacPro5,1, mass-produced 3-4 years after the MacPro4,1 with exact same hardware (sans delidded cpu).

This is Apple we are talking about here, under Tim Cook.

He's probably slab some Apple Silicon on a hardware no better than Chromebook and sell it to you in a premium.

 

[AshleyPomeroy]

Apple did not produce PPC and Intel versions of the same model at the same time. And they did not sell them in parallel in their store.

This got me to wonderin', and it seems that as late as March 2006 Apple's website listed the Intel and PowerPC models side-by-side, with prices:

The Apple Store (U.S.)

But as you point out they only list the models that hadn't switched processor yet. I can't find an instance where Apple gave consumers and option of a PowerPC Mac Mini or an Intel Mac Mini (for example).

Hey, there's a reboot of Battlestar Galactica! I wonder what it's like? Once again I'm reminded of the generation one iSight camera, a fantastically overdesigned thing that still looks great albeit that it's not exactly subtle:

 

[JPack]

Apple did not produce PPC and Intel versions of the same model at the same time. And they did not sell them in parallel in their store.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...licon-mac-release-order.2248718/post-28755365

Of course Apple didn't. It wouldn't make any sense either.

"We did a huge marketing campaign telling you how great Intel processors are, but we're going to offer PPC and Intel versions of the iMac for you to choose from?"

 

[JPack]

In the USA ... err no. Yes it does include back to school demand. The government threw gobs of money to buy computers for more than a few students. For K-12 there was a large bubble demand just from institutions.
Not the traditional "back to school" market dynamics this year because of the pandemic.

Throw on top a product refresh timing this year not being what it was last year and the year-over-year numbers are substantively going to be skewed by context.

The question about Back to School demand being pulled in by a quarter was answered by Tim Cook and Luca Maestri during the July earnings call. They expect the momentum to continue with strong BTS demand.

Quite frankly, the U.S. government and educational institutions play a relatively small role in Apple demand. Budgets are limited and hardly any school will choose to buy one MacBook Air instead of a couple Chromebooks. Students are the real demand drivers for Macs. Those consumers weren't buying Macs until the past couple months.

 

[Jorbanead]

MacPro5,1, mass-produced 3-4 years after the MacPro4,1 with exact same hardware (sans delidded cpu).

They didn’t start mass production 3-4 years later. That’s the difference. It is possible that they are taking over production for a product that is already being sold, but my interpretation was that since they are starting mass production, that implies it is a new product.

This got me to wonderin', and it seems that as late as March 2006 Apple's website listed the Intel and PowerPC models side-by-side, with prices

You are correct. What I was referring to was how they sold both the PowerBook G4 and the MacBook Pro at the same time for a short period. Technically the MBP is its own product, but it is thought to be the true successor to the PowerBook G4.

So they had a high-end PPC and a high-end Intel notebook being sold at the same time. Just with different names to denote the different processors.

Of course Apple didn't. It wouldn't make any sense either.

"We did a huge marketing campaign telling you how great Intel processors are, but we're going to offer PPC and Intel versions of the iMac for you to choose from?"

The reason for this was because the professional markets could not transition as quickly to Intel as the consumer markets, which is why we saw (for a short time) both the PowerBook and MacBook Pro being sold together. Apple of course wanted to transition as quickly as possible, but also didn't want to upset the pro community.

It is my theory that is why we got the current 2019 intel Mac Pro redesign 6 months before they announced the transition to Apple Silicon Macs. Professionals will have a hard time transitioning over to ARM, and they wanted to provide a product that we can use during the transition. Same goes for the current intel 27" iMac. I think this will be the last intel iMac, and Apple wanted to make sure it came with all the necessarily features professionals want, so we can take our time transitioning. If you buy one of these machines now, you will be safe for the next 3-5 years, and by then most professional applications should be able to run on ARM without the need for rosetta 2.

 

[Jouls]

You are correct. What I was referring to was how they sold both the PowerBook G4 and the MacBook Pro at the same time for a short period.

Not quite if we look at it modelwise.

This got me to wonderin', and it seems that as late as March 2006 Apple's website listed the Intel and PowerPC models side-by-side, with prices:
The Apple Store (U.S.)

What you see there, are the 12“ and the 17“ PowerBooks G4s and the 15“ MacBook Pro Intel. On January 10, 2006 the PowerBook G4 15“ was discontinued and the MacBook Pro Intel 15“ was started to be sold - as you can look up on http://everymac.com.

So yet again: The same Intel and PPC models were not sold side by side.

 

[Jorbanead]

Not quite if we look at it modelwise.

It looks like it from this link:

The Apple Store (U.S.)

 

[Jouls]

It looks like it from this link:

The Apple Store (U.S.)

Please just read completely my post before answering. I already replied to that.

 

[Jouls]

To help you:

What you see there, are the 12“ and the 17“ PowerBooks G4s and the 15“ MacBook Pro Intel. On January 10, 2006 the PowerBook G4 15“ was discontinued and the MacBook Pro Intel 15“ was started to be sold - as you can look up on http://everymac.com.

 

[AshleyPomeroy]

What you see there, are the 12“ and the 17“ PowerBooks G4s and the 15“ MacBook Pro Intel.

Well spotted. I remember at the time the 12" PowerBook remained on sale for several months into the Intel era, and I imagine if you go back through MacRumours' archives there are people confidently predicting the imminent launch of a 12" MacBook Pro.

I learn from Everymac that the very first MacBook Pro - a 1.67ghz model - only existed for five weeks. Before releasing it Apple swapped the CPU for a 1.83ghz model. Presumably people who pre-ordered the 1.67ghz model were given a 1.83ghz model instead.

I wonder if any leaked out?

 

[JPack]

In the USA ... err no. Yes it does include back to school demand. The government threw gobs of money to buy computers for more than a few students. For K-12 there was a large bubble demand just from institutions.
Not the traditional "back to school" market dynamics this year because of the pandemic.

Throw on top a product refresh timing this year not being what it was last year and the year-over-year numbers are substantively going to be skewed by context.

Looks like I was correct. The previous quarter didn't include any back to school demand.

This September quarter reached an all-time high for Mac revenue.

Apple Reports Fourth Quarter Results

Apple reported its fourth quarter financial results for the fiscal year after the market close on Thursday, October 29, 2020.

www.apple.com

 

[JPack]

Just curious how do you know they’re at max capacity? Unless you have insider knowledge I’m unaware of, the delayed shipping estimates for those macs could also be a result of them switching over production to new macs, so they have less inventory and production lines working on the machines as they transition over.

Also the new Mac could be just the MacBook so it wouldn’t interfere with any existing intel macs. Or if it’s the MBP it could just be one model and they’ll still ship the intel versions for a few months in addition to the new ones like they did during the last transition.

Tim Cook spelled it out today for those who couldn't put the puzzle together in the past few months.

"We are also supply constrained — for avoidance of any confusion — we're supply constrained on Mac, we're supply constraint on iPad, and we're supply constrained on some Apple Watches as well."

To put it politely, it would have been downright stupid if Apple decided to announce their own silicon Macs at the October event.

 

[Jorbanead]

Tim Cook spelled it out today for those who couldn't put the puzzle together in the past few months.

"We are also supply constrained — for avoidance of any confusion — we're supply constrained on Mac, we're supply constraint on iPad, and we're supply constrained on some Apple Watches as well."

To put it politely, it would have been downright stupid if Apple decided to announce their own silicon Macs at the October event.

I wasn’t at all denying this - I’m just saying there could be more to the puzzle than what people are saying here like: their partially constrained because they’re shifting some of their production lines over to new hardware. And being at max capacity isn’t always the same as being supply constrained. They could have someone in their chain that can’t keep up production (like batteries or displays, etc) that’s holding up the production line.

 

[DHagan4755]

I wasn’t at all denying this - I’m just saying there could be more to the puzzle than what people are saying here like: their partially constrained because they’re shifting some of their production lines over to new hardware. And being at max capacity isn’t always the same as being supply constrained.

Makes sense to me! Just thinking about all of the tooling that needs to be setup to put a new product on the assembly line as you transition from one product to another. At the same time how much different will the new 13" MacBook Pro be different than the previous version aside from Apple silicon?

 

[Kostask]

it will have a new motherboard, from the ground up. The connectors, at least for the externally accessible ones may not move around much, if the same exact enclosures are used. The rest of the motherboard is open to redesign. If they do use a new enclosure, then even the externally accessible connectors may move, as well. If they move the internal connectors around (for the battery or display, for example) they may also need new cables as well. There may be new keyboards if the enclosures change, as well as new cables if the display changes to mini-LED.

 

[DHagan4755]

The idea of keeping the enclosure very similar is very strong. Apple will show the world (& Intel) this is what "we can accomplish" in the same package — even with energy challenging enhancements such as ProMotion or a brighter display.

 

[MisterMe]

The idea of keeping the enclosure very similar is very strong. Apple will show the world (& Intel) this is what "we can accomplish" in the same package — even with energy challenging enhancements such as ProMotion or a brighter display.

Apple has been building computers since 1976--some 44 years now. The World knows this and so too does Intel. It would be pathetic for Apple to be concerned with what Intel does or does not know. Remember, one of the reasons that Apple is switching from Intel is that Apple engineers were finding more errors in Intel processors than Intel was finding.

No. Apple's new computers based on its SoCs are intended for Apple to build the best computers that it can build. The opinions that matter are the opinions of paying customers.

 

[Serban55]

the opinions that matter are the opinions of paying customers.

perfectly agree...and Apple is so sure on themselves that they keep the intel ones so , the customers and tech reviewers can even make side by side comparisons
So expect better battery life, better raw performance and less heat of course
2 more weeks from Tuesday

 

[DHagan4755]

Apple's new computers based on its SoCs are intended for Apple to build the best computers that it can build. The opinions that matter are the opinions of paying customers.

I agree with this. What's left out of context is that when Apple transitioned from PowerPC to Intel back in early 2006, Apple largely retained the overall look of its products. Apple kept the iMac design the same & swapped out the Power PC G5 for the Intel Core Duo. Likewise on the MacBook Pro, they kept the overall PowerBook G4 design except widened the screen a little, added a webcam, and MagSafe.

 

[Daoi]

It's impressive that we're potentially only two weeks away from the launch of a substantially new kind of computer from Apple and we are still quite clueless about what, specifically, it's going to be.

 

[ADGrant]

Of course Apple didn't. It wouldn't make any sense either.

"We did a huge marketing campaign telling you how great Intel processors are, but we're going to offer PPC and Intel versions of the iMac for you to choose from.

Actually it might make sense to offer Intel & ARM versions of the Mac mini simultaneously. Its a good machine for developers who will need to support both platforms for a while.