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Just wanted to add that I recently switched from an old iMac to a new Mini with a pure SSD drive (not a fusion drive) and love the speed difference!

It's time they phased out HDDs and made SSDs even more affordable. They have become more affordable since I considered getting one when I got the iMac in 2007, but they are still too pricey in my opinion.
 
I bought a 2014 Base Mini. I just wanted to walk into an Apple store, hand them $500 and walk out.
...

But then I put an SSD inside. Wasn't easy, the T6 Security bits being toughest part. Many of the sales on Amazon are incorrectly labeled and you get a regular T6.

MacVidCards,

With all due respect, what was your reasoning for replacing the internal HDD with an SSD and not using an external enclosure for a boot SSD?

By doing so:
1. You had to buy tools.
2. You need an SSD of at least 500gb to replace the internal storage. Compared to a 120gb boot drive, it’s ~$60 vs ~$200 for the 500gb.
3. The old drive needs a new home. Is the HDD going to live in an enclosure hanging off that same Mac? If so, you just swapped the internal with the external.
4. There’s almost no speed improvement over an external SSD enclosure.

You also, you had a pretty significant, warranty-risking effort to replace the drive. I admit from reading your posts on the Mac Pro forum, you are a qualified Mac surgeon, but still, for what purpose?

There was no cost savings - perhaps a cost increase - and there’s virtually no speed increase.

The only upside of which I can think is you can now, through an ugly hack, enable TRIM. And you saved a USB port.

Regards,
 
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MacVidCards,

With all due respect, what was your reasoning for replacing the internal HDD with an SSD and not using an external enclosure for a boot SSD?

By doing so:
1. You had to buy tools.
2. You need an SSD of at least 500gb to replace the internal storage. Compared to a 120gb boot drive, it’s ~$60 vs ~$200 for the 500gb.
3. The old drive needs a new home. Is the HDD going to live in an enclosure hanging off that same Mac? If so, you just swapped the internal with the external.
4. There’s almost no speed improvement over an external SSD enclosure.

You also, you had a pretty significant, warranty-risking effort to replace the drive. I admit from reading your posts on the Mac Pro forum, you are a qualified Mac surgeon, but still, for what purpose?

There was no cost savings - perhaps a cost increase - and there’s virtually no speed increase.

The only upside of which I can think is you can now, through an ugly hack, enable TRIM. And you saved a USB port.

Regards,

If I were MacVidCards, I would have done the same.

Having it internally reduces the risk of it getting disconnected externally by accident. And besides, native speeds are still a fair bit faster than USB 3.
 
If I were MacVidCards, I would have done the same.

Having it internally reduces the risk of it getting disconnected externally by accident. And besides, native speeds are still a fair bit faster than USB 3.
I am in the same boat right now. Thinking about running from ssd, but I am not in the mood to install it internaly.

What is your opinion on internal vs usb3 vs thunderbolt?
 
In descending order of my personal preference:
Internal PCIe > internal SATA3 > Thunderbolt > USB3.
And why?
What is the disadvantage of running it externaly via thunderbolt vs internally?
And what are the disadvantages of usb3 in your opinion.
 
Having it internally reduces the risk of it getting disconnected externally by accident.
Yes, unplugging a USB drive without knowing what it's doing would be a problem.

Can't argue with that. But the same risk holds for the power cable in the wall.

And besides, native speeds are still a fair bit faster than USB 3.

I have not see 'fair bit' speed differences between internal and external. Neither have others on this forum.

I have seen 200MB/s writes and 400MB/s reads on a 120GB Crucial MX with a Inatek external USB adapter which is identical to SATA III internal speeds for that disk and storage size.
 
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And why?
What is the disadvantage of running it externaly via thunderbolt vs internally?
And what are the disadvantages of usb3 in your opinion.

The disadvantage is that you don't get to take full advantage of the internal PCIe bus. In fact, even a TB enclosure may not even come close to providing the full IOPS and read/write performance of SATA3 (tested with my LaCie Rugged plus 250GB 850 Evo, where it clocked about 80MB/s slower in sequential performance over TB compared to SATA3. I assume IOPS would take a hit too).

The disadvantages of USB 3 is that you're limited by its bandwidth (take into account of the 8b/10b encoding as well) and also the lack of TRIM.

Note: Regular users will be hard pressed to tell the difference between the two, but as a software engineer and cinematographer, I need to squeeze as much performance as possible.

----------

Yes, unplugging a USB drive without knowing what it's doing would be a problem.

Can't argue with that. But the same risk holds for the power cable in the wall.



I have not see 'fair bit' speed differences between internal and external. Neither have others on this forum.

I have seen 200MB/s writes and 400MB/s reads on a 120GB Crucial MX with a Inatek external USB adapter which is identical to SATA III internal speeds for that disk and storage size.

I have.

My Transcend JetDrive enclosure for Ivy Bridge mSATA SSDs, with a SM256E drive inside, gets around 360MB/s writes and 410MB/s reads. When connected into an Ivy Bridge rMBP, the speeds are around 420MB/s writes and 450MB/s reads.
 
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And why?
What is the disadvantage of running it externaly via thunderbolt vs internally?
And what are the disadvantages of usb3 in your opinion.

In my opinion, since you didn't ask me.... :D

It would be
USB3 external > Internal PCIe > Thunderbolt > internal SATA3

Merely on cost-effective reasons.

You go internal SATA3 and you have to disassemble your Mac. You have been on this forum long enough to know the number of people who have wrecked their minis through this exercise. The 2014's are especially tricky because you have to replace the disk in the upper bay drive. The internal HDD on the 2012's was on the lower bay and you could slip a 7mm drive in without removing the logic board. Not so with the 2014's.

For what end? Aesthetics? I have two external USB enclosures currently on my Mini. They're hidden behind my monitor and I never think about them.

Speed? The speed differences are indistinguishable and if you can't stand the thought of booting externally, you're still left with an enclosure and an SSD - an $80 investment that is still usable.

You get a Thunderbolt enclosure and you're out about $150 for the enclosure before the drive itself. You would need a 500gb+ SSD to actualize a TB port speed benefit that is noticeable only in BlackMagic speed tests. There's $200 right there. Sure you can enable TRIM with a gruesome hack but once again, TRIM's benefits are much debated. I prefer to just leave my mini on and let the drives garbage collection do it's thing. My mini (2012) at idle is 11 watts. The newer minis idle at 6 watts which is about the same as a clock radio.

Meister - how much did you spend on your Mini? I assume it's a 2014. If it's the mid-range 2014, then around $700?

Look at the options of replacing that 1TB HDD, and evaluate the risk.
Internal SATA III
Highest risk of warranty breaking damage!
Cost - $400 to replace the 1TB mid-range drive or 78% of the mini itself.

External Thunderbolt
Cost - $150 for the enclosure and $60 for a 120gb SSD or 30% of the mini itself.

Internal PCIe
Cost - ~$200 for a 128gb drive and parts or 28% of the cost of the mini. This is the easiest internal surgery you would have to do and I am assuming you would fuse the internal 1TB HDD when you're done.

External USB 3.0 SSD
Cost - $80 for a 120gb SSD and enclosure or 11% of the cost of the mini. No surgery, you can fuse the two drives and there's no speed issues. If you don't like the setup, you've still got an SSD in an external enclosure. Maybe the cost of the internal PCIe drives will drop and then you can switch over.

The point of my post is that we are talking about speeding up a ~$700 computer with the least amount of money and risk.

On those terms, the external USB 3.0 enclosure with a 120gb HDD fused to the internal is the most cost effective, least risky solution for speed and storage.

We are not talking about hot-rodding a mini. If you wanted pure speed, no expense spared, the Mac Pro/MBP would be a better choice.
 
Yes, unplugging a USB drive without knowing what it's doing would be a problem.

Can't argue with that. But the same risk holds for the power cable in the wall.



I have not see 'fair bit' speed differences between internal and external. Neither have others on this forum.

I have seen 200MB/s writes and 400MB/s reads on a 120GB Crucial MX with a Inatek external USB adapter which is identical to SATA III internal speeds for that disk and storage size.

You keep trying to convince people on this forum to use external USB 3.0 hard drives instead of internal drives. Why are you so insanely passionate about that? I agree USB3 SSD drives work fine, and are certainly an option, but there is no doubt that an internal boot drive is most ideal.
 
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The disadvantage is that you don't get to take full advantage of the internal PCIe bus. In fact, even a TB enclosure may not even come close to providing the full IOPS and read/write performance of SATA3 (tested with my LaCie Rugged plus 250GB 850 Evo, where it clocked about 80MB/s slower in sequential performance over TB compared to SATA3. I assume IOPS would take a hit too).

The disadvantages of USB 3 is that you're limited by its bandwidth (take into account of the 8b/10b encoding as well) and also the lack of TRIM.

Note: Regular users will be hard pressed to tell the difference between the two, but as a software engineer and cinematographer, I need to squeeze as much performance as possible..
The usage for my mini (late 2012) is not that heavy at all. Mostly media consumptiom (netflix,itunes, youtube), websurfing, word, numbers, pages, email, lightroom and a bit of photoshop and recently pixelmator.
I am really not in the mood to open him up and install it internally.
My understanding was that thunderbolt should be as fast as internal and that external usb3 puts strain on the cpu, that's why I was thinking about an external thunderbolt ssd. I also like the idea of having the OS on a portable drive.

Why is thunderbolt not as fast as internal? Does thunderbolt support trim?
Is trim really necessary?
Do you think that I would even notice any differences with my usage?

----------

You keep trying to convince people on this forum to use external USB 3.0 hard drives instead of internal drives. Why are you so insanely passionate about that? I agree USB3 SSD drives work fine, and are certainly an option, but there is no doubt that an internal boot drive is most ideal.
I am still undecided, but usb3 has: convenience, price and availability going for it.
 
I am still undecided, but usb3 has: convenience, price and availability going for it.

As compared to an internal PCIe SSD upgrade, I agree. As compared to an internet SATA3 drive SSD, I disagree. Convenience is short-term. I think having an internal drive is more convenient long-term - I like the idea of having one integrated device with as few cords as possible.

A 2.5" SSD is going to cost what it's going to cost, whether or not you put it into a USB enclosure or into the Mac Mini. Plus, if you're buying an external enclosure anyway, I would rather put the slow spinner into that and have the SSD internal because it will ultimately be the boot drive. So I think price is a wash.

At the end of the day, it's about whether you want to open up the mac and turn a screw driver. If you really don't want to do that, then the USB idea is fine. However, I think the difficulty of it is overstated. There have been a dozen or so people on this forum that screwed up their macs, compared to hundreds if not thousands on this forum who made out just fine with the upgrade. Overall, the rate of failure us low.

I guess my point is: The USB3 drive idea shouldn't be the first advice given to someone who wants an upgrade, rather it should be the second after it is clear the person doesn't want to turn a screw driver.
 
I'm ready to do this but cant decide which one

1.
If I replace the internal drive with a SSD what is the MIN size the ssd have to be as i assuming it cant be 120GB right?

2.
If I open the mac mini my warranty will be voided right?

3.
I can go USB 3 with a 120GB and fuse my drives together. If I do, should I get a SSD with trim or does it really matter?

4.
Thunder drive enclosures cost alot is that right? How about PCIe SSD upgrade cost?

My thoughts right now is to just replace the internal drive with an SSD, but I dont want to void the warranty if that will happen. Will it?
 
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I'm ready to do this but cant decide which one

1.
If I replace the internal drive with a SSD what is the MIN size the ssd have to be as i assuming it cant be 120GB right?

2.
If I open the mac mini my warranty will be voided right?

3.
I can go USB 3 with a 120GB and fuse my drives together. If I do, should I get a SSD with trim or does it really matter?

4.
Thunder drive enclosures cost alot is that right? How about PCIe SSD upgrade cost?

My thoughts right now is to just replace the internal drive with an SSD, but I dont want to void the warranty if that will happen. Will it?
1. Why can't it be 120gb?
2. Says who?
3. It apears as if there is no trim support via usb 3
4. Good option!
 
1. Why can't it be 120gb?
2. Says who?
3. It apears as if there is no trim support via usb 3
4. Good option!

Somewhat stated the ssd drive if replacing internally has to be min of 500gb

also can somebody link me to the PCIe and how to install. Im considering that as well
 
I just wanted to add I bought one today and it is lag city. I typically only play FaceBook games and even those stutter and beachball.

Beachballin' all over the place. :(

Edit: needless to say this is going back tomorrow. Completely unacceptable. Two minutes to boot from powered off is ridiculous.
 
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I just wanted to add I bought one today and it is lag city. I typically only play FaceBook games and even those stutter and beachball.

Beachballin' all over the place. :(

Edit: needless to say this is going back tomorrow. Completely unacceptable. Two minutes to boot from powered off is ridiculous.

That sounds quite bad. SSD is the only way to go. My 7 year old laptop boots in 15-20 seconds with SSD, even.

I don't understand why Apple doesn't just move towards having solid-state storage as standard. They are all about the "experience".
 
I just wanted to add I bought one today and it is lag city. I typically only play FaceBook games and even those stutter and beachball.

Beachballin' all over the place. :(

Edit: needless to say this is going back tomorrow. Completely unacceptable. Two minutes to boot from powered off is ridiculous.

Apple should have just made a 1TB Fusion Drive the default on all desktops, even if it's a slight price bump. At least customers will end up having a better experience in the end.
 
Apple should have just made a 1TB Fusion Drive the default on all desktops, even if it's a slight price bump. At least customers will end up having a better experience in the end.

Yes I agree. A 5400-rpm hard drive in 2015 seems slightly absurd. I didn't think it would make such a huge difference.

I play this game on Facebook called MyVegas and it consists of slot machines while playing the game on the Mac Mini the reels kept stuttering and I'd get beachballs changing to a different slot.

I was really hoping this would work out. For now I'm back to my Windows box until possibly an iMac refresh as I really do not need a laptop.
 
Yes I agree. A 5400-rpm hard drive in 2015 seems slightly absurd. I didn't think it would make such a huge difference.

I play this game on Facebook called MyVegas and it consists of slot machines while playing the game on the Mac Mini the reels kept stuttering and I'd get beachballs changing to a different slot.

I was really hoping this would work out. For now I'm back to my Windows box until possibly an iMac refresh as I really do not need a laptop.

Hmm, how about a Mac Mini with a Fusion Drive?

I used a mid-2013 MacBook Air with just 4GB of RAM and a 128GB SSD, plus a 1.3GHz i5 CPU, and it worked really well though.

The little SSD makes all the difference.
 
I just wanted to add I bought one today and it is lag city. I typically only play FaceBook games and even those stutter and beachball.

Beachballin' all over the place. :(

Edit: needless to say this is going back tomorrow. Completely unacceptable. Two minutes to boot from powered off is ridiculous.

Honestly mines do not. Well the first day or so I was getting the beach ball but it smoothed over quick. Seem like you have to break it in a little, Give it a try for a few days and watch it smooth over

My mac mini 2014 4gb is running a champion but I did get the beach ball at first. Remeber I think macs when first used have to be broke in so the beach ball is normal

I had at one time a HD video playing, Vm Fusion open and running with windows, firefox, chrome and safari open and my music player playing and the mac mini was still holding up like a champ no stutter or flaws
 
MacVidCards,

With all due respect, what was your reasoning for replacing the internal HDD with an SSD and not using an external enclosure for a boot SSD?

By doing so:
1. You had to buy tools.
2. You need an SSD of at least 500gb to replace the internal storage. Compared to a 120gb boot drive, it’s ~$60 vs ~$200 for the 500gb.
3. The old drive needs a new home. Is the HDD going to live in an enclosure hanging off that same Mac? If so, you just swapped the internal with the external.
4. There’s almost no speed improvement over an external SSD enclosure.

You also, you had a pretty significant, warranty-risking effort to replace the drive. I admit from reading your posts on the Mac Pro forum, you are a qualified Mac surgeon, but still, for what purpose?

There was no cost savings - perhaps a cost increase - and there’s virtually no speed increase.

The only upside of which I can think is you can now, through an ugly hack, enable TRIM. And you saved a USB port.

Regards,


I see you don't realize that I own and run an upgrade company.

If replacing a hard drive was a problem for me I would be in a world of hurt.

Do I think everyone should do this? Probably not. If you have sausage fingers or are ham handed, let someone else do it. (Why do both of those phrases reference meat? Hmm.)

One of the trickier parts was the bits of wire you poke in to release the logic board. It seems iFixit really wants to sell you their hacked clothes hangers so they leave that bit especially ambiguous.

Have a laptop with a nice screen handy, lay the mini on a soft cloth and take your time. And I mean, don't have something you need to do in 2 hours so you rush.

I am working on eGPU solutions for Mac products like this and that requires multiple reboots, all day long. I thought I could live with the base Mini, I just wanted something to represent the product line and I wanted to walk into an Apple store with $500 and walk out with a Mini. And I did.

And I regretted it with every boot and mouse click. I don't know how, but the Mini seemed to suffer more than any machine in recent memory from 5,400 slow down. I think 5,400 RPM in a 2.5" is slower than 5,400 RPM in a 3.5".

In any case, I have 10 or so Macs here and every single one has an SSD boot drive of some sort. I even have an old white Macbook that runs as a WiFi print server. It has an old 64GB SSD from the early days.

I have another Mini ordered right now. I also have a couple spare 256 Gb blades form machines that got upgraded to 1TB blades. The 2nd Mini is going to my development partner so that our results can be cross-tested by us both, so we need identical machines. I have ordered another T6 security bit and already have the PCIE cable and a 256GB SATA SSD.

I would feel rather foolish staring at an ugly little wort of an enclosure for the next few years knowing that the only reason it was sitting on my desk taking up a USB port and space was because I was too frightened to open up my Mini.

In short, i would see it as a symbol of failure or a symbol of Apple winning. Instead, I won. I bought their cheapest computer, and for a little money and time I turned it into a bad-ask machine. Believe it or not, I have managed to get 1/4 of the way through Far Cry 4 on my lowly, entry level Mini. At 4K 60 Hz with visual effects at "Ultra".

While much of the work is being done by the Titan-X connected by TB2, the SSD is what keeps load times acceptable. And the cross-booting from OS X to Windows and back.

As for the crappy 5,400 rpm 500GB drive that it came with...I may put it in a PS3, I may sell it, I may create an emergency disk image, don't know. Right now it is in a plastic bin full of other spinning drives I don't want or need.
 
I see you don't realize that I own and run an upgrade company.

If replacing a hard drive was a problem for me I would be in a world of hurt.

Do I think everyone should do this? Probably not. If you have sausage fingers or are ham handed, let someone else do it. (Why do both of those phrases reference meat? Hmm.)

One of the trickier parts was the bits of wire you poke in to release the logic board. It seems iFixit really wants to sell you their hacked clothes hangers so they leave that bit especially ambiguous.

Have a laptop with a nice screen handy, lay the mini on a soft cloth and take your time. And I mean, don't have something you need to do in 2 hours so you rush.

I am working on eGPU solutions for Mac products like this and that requires multiple reboots, all day long. I thought I could live with the base Mini, I just wanted something to represent the product line and I wanted to walk into an Apple store with $500 and walk out with a Mini. And I did.

And I regretted it with every boot and mouse click. I don't know how, but the Mini seemed to suffer more than any machine in recent memory from 5,400 slow down. I think 5,400 RPM in a 2.5" is slower than 5,400 RPM in a 3.5".

In any case, I have 10 or so Macs here and every single one has an SSD boot drive of some sort. I even have an old white Macbook that runs as a WiFi print server. It has an old 64GB SSD from the early days.

I have another Mini ordered right now. I also have a couple spare 256 Gb blades form machines that got upgraded to 1TB blades. The 2nd Mini is going to my development partner so that our results can be cross-tested by us both, so we need identical machines. I have ordered another T6 security bit and already have the PCIE cable and a 256GB SATA SSD.

I would feel rather foolish staring at an ugly little wort of an enclosure for the next few years knowing that the only reason it was sitting on my desk taking up a USB port and space was because I was too frightened to open up my Mini.

In short, i would see it as a symbol of failure or a symbol of Apple winning. Instead, I won. I bought their cheapest computer, and for a little money and time I turned it into a bad-ask machine. Believe it or not, I have managed to get 1/4 of the way through Far Cry 4 on my lowly, entry level Mini. At 4K 60 Hz with visual effects at "Ultra".

While much of the work is being done by the Titan-X connected by TB2, the SSD is what keeps load times acceptable. And the cross-booting from OS X to Windows and back.

As for the crappy 5,400 rpm 500GB drive that it came with...I may put it in a PS3, I may sell it, I may create an emergency disk image, don't know. Right now it is in a plastic bin full of other spinning drives I don't want or need.
And by the time you reach the 4GB RAM limit of the Mac Mini, you will then realize that you can't upgrade the RAM... so in the end, Apple still wins when it comes to RAM upgrades (unless you've good soldering skills).

Myself, I use an eGPU solution with a Sonnet IIID and a GTX 780 Ti connected over TB2, and got a plug and play solution for Boot Camp (installed in UEFI).
 
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