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shikimo

macrumors 6502
Jan 17, 2007
377
0
Lyon, France
Welcome to the wonderful world of European socialism!

You can't have your "free" healthcare and free lifetime paychecks for bums and criminals, without paying a price (in this case, high tariffs on evil American products)

Quality ignorance, on display right here!

First of all, all European countries are different. Really, really different. There's no such thing as "European socialism."

I can't speak for other countries, but not a dime of French VAT goes to healthcare or welfare, nor is there any other import tariff that contributes to social security. Furthermore, healthcare isn't free, but it is affordable and of equal (and sometimes better) quality than in the US (I have years of experience with both), with or without private insurance.

Furthermore, many products here are cheaper than in the US, with or without taking into account the abnormally strong Euro and/or weak dollar. Computers happen to not be one of them. This relates to many, many factors, both social and economic, but it's got very little to do with Apple or "evil American products."

And for the record, before anyone tries it: It's a bad move to buy an iMac or a Mini in the US and take to a country with 220-240V power, even if you can smuggle it in. Even the most burly consumer-level converters aren't stable enough in the long term to run a computer on a daily basis, and the cost of a professional one would more than eliminate the savings. It's definitely a good move for laptops and iPods, though, as the Swede mentions above, as the power pack has a converter built in; just load some of your stuff onto it, don't bring the packaging, and there's no way for customs to know. Of course, if you fly to France from the US you are unlikely to ever see a customs agent doing more than playing solitaire, so no worries there.

I'm with you on the bums though: it bugs me that I pay high social security taxes to pay for many who choose not to work. Is it a better solution than chucking them out on the street? Maybe...both systems suck in their own ways, but that's a discussion for another forum.
 

icecone

macrumors regular
Jun 8, 2007
168
0
er... take a look at Hong Kong online store, it is cheaper than US, so it will be cheaper and cheaper than Europe:D
Not for the iMac
The $1199 costs about $1217 US dollars in HK
$1499 -> $1525
$1799 -> $1859

The macbook pro is slight cheaper in HK and the macbook is pretty much the same.

I think the price difference is mainly due to different tax rate in different countries. It's tax free in HK
 

aliquis-

macrumors 6502a
May 20, 2007
680
0
Sounds like a great time to take a vacation to the States...come on over and spend your Euros buying US goods on the cheap!
But a flight ticket to USA and back does cost quite a lot aswell doesn't it? Thought you get to see it, on the other hand omg it's the usa damnit ;D

Better not leave >:D
 

aliquis-

macrumors 6502a
May 20, 2007
680
0
Don't forget localization costs for hardware and OSX, staffing costs, other logistics etc. The list goes on and on.
Yeah, but I doubt it cost so much / unit to translate everything. Staffing and logistics? They ship here from China/Singapore/whatever and I doubt there are no Apple staff in USA, china or any other country outside the EU.
 

mpw

Guest
Jun 18, 2004
6,363
1
Yeah, but I doubt it cost so much / unit to translate everything. Staffing and logistics? They ship here from China/Singapore/whatever and I doubt there are no Apple staff in USA, china or any other country outside the EU.

Cost of localizing the software I've no idea about, but there are staffing costs and running costs to consider, and those cost are significantly higher in the UK, for example, than the US. Probably more than 10% higher. And then there's the market, a retailer prices his goods at what he thinks the market will bear, not necessarily what his costs are plus a fixed percentage, and then there's pricing to price points too.

At the end of the day the higher cost in Europe over the US isn't really significant and nobody should be blaming Apple, or direct taxes.
 

trule

macrumors 6502
Mar 16, 2007
310
0
There are lots of costs involved in taking a product to another market; localisation, organisational and risk management (currency hedging). Whilst these factors combine with a generally higher tax regime in Europe, in the end, the price is set by the market.

Those costs are fixed, as to are the component/developemnt costs, then what is left is Apple profit. Is Apple profiting more from European consumers with their new iMac?

The USD price reduction on the 24" base model was 200$
The EURO price reduction on the 24" base model was 250€ (340USD)

So, does Apple profit more from European consumers? From those price (profit) reductions I doubt it. I would imagine they profit more or less the same amount as they do from US consumers. The price difference is probably due to the mostly fixed costs of doing business in Europe for a US firm.
 

Schtumple

macrumors 601
Jun 13, 2007
4,905
131
benkadams.com
This is why I'm trying to get my aunt to send me over a macbook pro, scrap the box, bubble wrap it up tightly and send it in a laptop case, cheap (ish) and easy
 

lowbb

macrumors newbie
Jun 28, 2007
16
0
Hong Kong
Your subsisdizing the Americans to live a care free life.

It is like this with all your American products. Hong Kong gets it cheap because America rewards its slaves by offering the same price to it plus there is no sales tax.
apple products are not made in hong kong
the salary is too high

btw,i am from hong kong and i don't think there are 'slaves' in HK:)
 

shikimo

macrumors 6502
Jan 17, 2007
377
0
Lyon, France
Cost of localizing the software I've no idea about, but there are staffing costs and running costs to consider, and those cost are significantly higher in the UK, for example, than the US. Probably more than 10% higher. And then there's the market, a retailer prices his goods at what he thinks the market will bear, not necessarily what his costs are plus a fixed percentage, and then there's pricing to price points too.

At the end of the day the higher cost in Europe over the US isn't really significant and nobody should be blaming Apple, or direct taxes.

Good points.

Just as one example: imagine if the US Government demanded corporations to pay around 40% of its employee salaries in social security taxes...not to mention the guaranteed-by-law 5 weeks of annual vacation to which all French workers are theoretically entitled. It reflects, among other things, social priorities; people here are more interested in their daily quality of life than in economic growth. There's a big price to pay for this attitude, and it can be maddening at times, but in the end even Apple's telephone sales clerks get their 5 weeks in the sun...

...then again so do I, so if my computer costs a (tiny bit) more because of it, so be it.

Pass the sunscreen :).
 

shikimo

macrumors 6502
Jan 17, 2007
377
0
Lyon, France
apple products are not made in hong kong
the salary is too high

btw,i am from hong kong and i don't think there are 'slaves' in HK:)

Clearly...the poster to whom you are responding is even more ignorant than the last one I called ignorant on this thread :D. As if the HK economy isn't even more out of control than most cities in America or Europe. I once turned down a job there because the pay wasn't enough to live on...but it would've been more than I was making at the time in Chicago, living quite comfortably.
 

IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,909
1,496
Palookaville
The US dollar being in the dumper does not mean that US products sold abroad automatically get cheaper. Pricing simply does not work that way, if only because exchange rates are too volatile. Europeans should not be complaining about their currency being relatively strong; at recent historical highs. If Europeans want to take full advantage they need to get themselves on airplanes. Lucky you, the entire US is on sale, but you need to come here to get it. That's how the deal works. Always has, always will.
 

rainydays

macrumors 6502a
Nov 6, 2006
886
0
I don't consider the Mac prices especially high here in Sweden. Electronics are more expensive here in general so compared to other things the prices are pretty normal.

However, I do order things from Germany, England and China because sometimes the price difference is just too much to pass on. Especially "niche products" are expensive here because it's such a small country.
 

jimsoff

macrumors member
Aug 8, 2007
48
0
Yep, totally care-free. (Crumbling infrastructure; exponentially growing divide between ultra-rich and poor, while middle class slides below the poverty level; political leaders who trample upon our basic rights and a mainstream media that is complicit in selling the white-washed lies; a teetering economy buttressed by junk mortgages -- 7+ million middle class Americans are about to lose their homes; the worst health care in the industrialized world; toxic substances introduced into our food and water supplies while the government proclaims in NewSpeak that we have most ideal environment ever...)

As for HK, blame that on the Bushes -- who cozied up to Beijing even while it was literally crushing its citizens under tank treads and haven't even considered revoking MFN status for fear of further enlarging our gigantic trade deficit.

I think me and you would get along very well. Mmmmmm 1984 references.

As for the price difference I really do think it is BS. It's rediculous to price the things the way apple does, but it's how they make money, they're a business. Think of how certain electronics are expensive here, while in japan you can get them for probably half the price.
 

IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,909
1,496
Palookaville
It's not a thing that "Apple does." All manufacturers price their products the same way. They don't discount for exchange rate fluctuations. Not that pointing this out will make any difference...
 
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