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New iMacs being used by Illustrators/graphic designers?

ok, so after reading all of this thread and others this is what I sum up.
People who do not do graphic design ect. are saying that this is a terrible screen for people who do this sort of thing...why not let the people who do that sort of thing speak up? Well they did, and all of them have replied it is not an issue.
 
imac 20" screen fading

There seems to be growing concern about the screen quality on the new 20" Imacs. I'm a designer and bought a 20" Imac on Friday. When I got it home I noticed the screen was darker at the top, fading to a lighter tint of that colour at the bottom. You can simply check this using a block of single colour filling the screen. As this was difficult to design on I phoned Applecare to be told it was a fault (monitor calibration doesn't correct the fault) and to return it. Before returning to the store I set up a quick test and ran this on the three 20" machines on the ground floor of the Regents Street store in London and they all produced the same fading result. The two 24" machines were absolutely fine. This is by no means conclusive, but if this is a universal problem (the Apple forums seem to suggest this is happening a lot and not just in London), for designers at least, these machines will be unusable as colour isn't remotely consistent from top to bottom.
It may be just a batch thing, but if anybody is considering getting the 20" please check the colour top to bottom before buying. I wish I had.
 
I was comparing the new 24" iMac side by side with a 30" ACD yesterday. I am an aspiring photographer and I was pulling up my photos that are posted on line on each computer. The color accuracy was amazing-especially since they had just gotten the iMac in and had just set it up-it had been on for about two hours with no screen calibration at all.

In short, the 24" screen was absolutely stunning and I barely noticed the reflections from the windows and overhead lighting. It really wasn't that distracting...especially once I got down to business with the comparisons.

I was very concerned about the issues from everything I had been reading about the displays. A trip to have a look up close is all I needed to make my decision-now it's whether to get the 2.8 or the 2.4! :)

Bottom line: folks need to go see for themselves before coming to a conclusion. It's all subjective to a large degree.
 
24" Imac screens

Agreed, the 24" screens are great. The 20" screens I looked at had a serious fading top to bottom issue and are therefore a major problem for a designer. If people go to the Apple forums on the Apple site you can see that this isn't a rare occurence either.
 
it is not the computer, but the end user. the computer only helps the user do what they are thinking about.
 
slight shift

I don't care how good an artist somebody is, they need to be able to know that what they are looking at on-screen is going to transfer accurately to another monitor or printing press (allowing for the usual inconsistencies). It's a fundamental requirement.
From what I've seen the 20" monitors are totally inadequate for use by a graphic artist or web designer or anyone else who requires reasonably consistent colour on their monitor screens.
The gloss isn't the issue nor the poor calibration, which can be adjusted - it's the fact the the same colour at the top of the screen is darker than at the bottom and much as I love Apple products it's unacceptable.
 
Clidsy said:
From what I've seen the 20" monitors are totally inadequate for use by a graphic artist or web designer or anyone else who requires reasonably consistent colour on their monitor screens.
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If that's the case then I agree. Consistent colors across the display is much more important than color accuracy.
 
suneohair said:
A graphic designer who buys a TN is not a graphic designer.
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I'll agree they're not the best choice for the job, but I have personally seen some designers cling to some very bad displays. I actually work with one who refuses to ditch her old CRT in favor of any LCD on the market. She insists they give her a headache. In the meantime, her old 21" beast has become so dim and faded with age that it barely qualifies as a color monitor any more.
 
A true graphic designer knows how to use it's host application. Can you say "panning"? It's a very important feature when designing anything and everything. If you paint the whole pallete a solid color, you expect the other monitor to show colors of the 70's? Unless you are foolishly adding a gradient, and can't tell the difference. :confused:

Second, you need to pan to make sure you are accurate with your design. The shift isn't a problem, and most of you complaining about it aren't doing anything serious with your graphic designing, and are probably using cracked software.

But whatever, truth hurts...:rolleyes:

Oh really? I better go cancel my order and start a cult, huh? :rolleyes:

suneohair said:
A graphic designer who buys a TN is not a graphic designer.
Click to expand...
 
Broken Friday - trust us these 20" monitors aren't up to the job. If you're going to get one and you use it for design you should only consider the 24".
 
suneohair said:
A graphic designer who buys a TN is not a graphic designer.
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for this, you're making me pull out a cliché.
i hate clichés. *sulk*

a good workman never blames his tools.

you may as well say that a carpenter who doesn't use a chisel isn't a carpenter. it's never about what he does or does not use, it's about what he does.

design ability is not based on what you use. certain things make the job easier, and i'll grant that there are better screens than TN ones. i would also point out that the 24" was more desireable to a designer in the white range, simply because there is more screen space for pallettes etc.

in the new models, the 24" has a little more going for it other than simply screen real estate, however i would argue that a 20" new imac is not unusable, as the accounts manager sitting next to me in the studio is using one for admin stuff, and looking at her screen every now and again to look at movies and images has made me quite comfortable to use hers if mine breaks and is out of action for a few days.

i'm not saying that the 20" is as good as the 24, because the viewing angle has a (minor) impact on colour, however, it's still perfectly usable as well.
 
No but design ability comes with the ability to choice the tools that make their life work easier and more fun.

I don't think there are any professional photographers out there shooting with a D40X. And on the other end someone who has a D200 isn't automatically a professional.

My point is that a designer should know very well the limits of a TN panel. If they knowingly buy it, fine. I can't complain. You can call it BS all day, but i doubt there are many real carpenters out there not using a chisel, unless through thought and creativity have come up with a new way to do it.

I bought my fiancée an new iMac (24"). I calibrated it using my Spyder and I can say that:

1: They didn't look same upon looking
2: The glare was quite noticeable, and I live in a studio and only had natural light with the blinds closed. I could clearly tell the difference


Would I use an iMac for design? No. There is no way. We can fudge the numbers and use the CRT argument all day. But these iMacs are using poor displays and the glass only masks that. Say what you will.

I will also be bringing in my display to work to compare it to the 20" we just got. I will report back.

EDIT: Let me rephrase my previous statement as well: A graphic designer who knowingly buys a TN panel for their work (assuming they could afford something better) is not a true designer.
 
it'll be fine for viewing movies, but if you are using flat colour in a piece of artwork, you need the colour to be consistent across the monitor otherwise it appears as a gradient. This is what happened with my 20" and the 3 others I tested. It's not a minor impact on colour - I was unable to tell which shade, top or bottom was the correct colour. I don't know about you, but I certainly wouldn't be happy to send a design out to a client with a discrepancy in colour that large.
 
There is a lot idealism regarding how artists need exacting screens. I have been a fine artist and a graphic/video artist for a number of years. I have done photoshop commercially for a photographer. There are people making money of aging G4's and old monitors.
 
Clidsy said:
it'll be fine for viewing movies, but if you are using flat colour in a piece of artwork, you need the colour to be consistent across the monitor otherwise it appears as a gradient. This is what happened with my 20" and the 3 others I tested. It's not a minor impact on colour - I was unable to tell which shade, top or bottom was the correct colour. I don't know about you, but I certainly wouldn't be happy to send a design out to a client with a discrepancy in colour that large.
Click to expand...

i agree.
that's why there's this thing called 'proofing'
 
these threads always seem to end up in people going back and forth, stating opinions as fact, and standing behind them like rabid sports fans. so, allow me to offer my opinions on the subject, as i have done so in the other 27 threads on glossy vs. matte.

IN MY OPINION for print design work, and i mean real print design work that gets printed by on an offset printer (or high-end digital press), the matte screen is CLOSER to what you see on the printed page than the glossy screen is. Because it is a closer match, it is a better option than the glossy screen. it is IN NO WAY an exact match, it is just less off the mark than a glossy screen. No print designer who has any idea what s/he is doing trusts any screen, no matter how well calibrated, to be a match for a printed piece, which is why real designers who work in print always work with a mouse in one hand and a pantone book in the other, and then wait to see the printer's proofs and THEN go on press to see the run before signing off on anything.

in my opinion you can do graphic design, exceptional graphic design, on a 30 year old amber-and-black monitor, but it is not the best choice. you can do graphic design, exceptional graphic design, on a brand new glossy screen 24" iMac, but it is not the best choice due to the glossy screen.
 
I will be having a 20" screen Dell, and a 20" Mac. I can easily interchange my usage. I will be using Max and Maya on my PC, sometimes my iMac. I will be mainly using Pro Tools and Logic on my iMac, specifically and specially because I have Vista installed (Pro Tools isn't yet compatible), and Logic isn't for PC's anymore like the old days.

I will also be using Photoshop CS3 Creative Suite, divinely... on both platforms. The minor color shift isn't going to bother me at all. A good designer knows his colors, not his limitations... or her...

I'm just figuring where I'm going to put the beast at, I might just replace my Dell's spot for the iMac, and move the Dell closer to my bed.choices, choices, choices....
 
mrmjd said:
You talking about being Dell-boy? Don't be a plonker, Rodney!
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Dell-boy? Never paid for brands mate!
You are the one who wants to spend 2k plus for a system that is not even suitable for your needs. And I am the plonker :rolleyes:
 
After reading so many opinions I have to rephrase my view on this.

A glossy screen will do exceptionally fine in certain lighting conditions.
- Make sure your eyes are near level to the top of the screen (which is part of ergonomics). This will remove any ceiling lights reflecting of the screen.
- Most office spaces have cubicals, hence windows are unseen and will not reflect from the screen.
- Any windows next or behind the screen will reflect. This strains the eyes, especially after several hours.
- Importantly, reflections may cover flaws on a design.
- There is a limit on where you want to position your iMac in a room.

Remember that some CRTs monitors have anti-reflection coating compared to CRT TVs. Hence new iMacs can be more reflective than the old CRTs. But you have to also remember that LCDs, especially the new iMacs, are way brighter than CRTs, hence the screen is more viewable than CRT under certain reflections.

Colour accuracy.
Though matte is better, glossy is still good. Proof printing is always required, no matter what monitor you have.

24" iMac is good for graphic/web/photography work in ideal lighting conditions.

20" iMac is a TN LCD. This creates colour shifts from top to bottom. You wonder why the black isn't black until you placed the image on the center of the screen. I would avoid it for intense graphical work.

A good Carpenter can create the same brilliant chair with a hammer or a nail gun. But the chair would be completed sooner with a nail gun.

Any good graphic designer will do a great job on any Mac/PC and display they have. But the better tools you have, the quicker the job is done.

Time is Money.
 
Fantomas said:
Dell-boy? Never paid for brands mate!
You are the one who wants to spend 2k plus for a system that is not even suitable for your needs. And I am the plonker :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Sorry mate, it was a cheap 'Only Fools and Horses gag, wasn't directed at anyone....just a lame Del-Boy and Rodders joke.
 
Gosh, some of you "designers". Act like you leave the image constantly centered, never pan, move, resize, and not only that, you all act as if you are giving Dreamworks the last rendering of the CGI model, but you can't proof it? THat shows how much importance the art and job is to you. Have any of you ever been inside a real "REAL" studio? I mean professional studios. Sony, Disney, Nintendo, etc...? You all will be amazed at how many POS monitors they are working on, old ones. I'm not saying everyone have POS monitors, but some do some don't, and guess what? They make eye popping art, and they still have their famed career.
 
Went to the apple store yesterday and played with the 20 inch I changed the desktop to a solid colour and did notice it looked more like a gradient. I am in my final year of a multimedia design course and am uncertain what I will be doing after uni (freelance, agenency or unemployed.) I want to upgrade my G5 to a faster model, if I wasn't into design I wouldn't worry about this but am a little concerned about the screen. I don't really want to have to get the 24 model as I feel it's too big and not worth my money
 
Broken Friday said:
Gosh, some of you "designers". Act like you leave the image constantly centered, never pan, move, resize, and not only that, you all act as if you are giving Dreamworks the last rendering of the CGI model, but you can't proof it? THat shows how much importance the art and job is to you. Have any of you ever been inside a real "REAL" studio? I mean professional studios. Sony, Disney, Nintendo, etc...? You all will be amazed at how many POS monitors they are working on, old ones. I'm not saying everyone have POS monitors, but some do some don't, and guess what? They make eye popping art, and they still have their famed career.
Click to expand...

I have to agree on this as a friend works for an NFL team and has to submit all the promos and print items for approval. When I saw what she works on everyday compaired to my 20" iMac (see sig) that I bought in January 2006 my iMac is a dream! Her station was an Apple, PM 800 DP tower with 1GB Ram. Now she has the last G5 tower and the 20" lcd to match.
What I'm getting at is she created all the tickets for the games, promo items, things at the stands with the team pics/logos and offers with the only improvement given to her was updating Quark before her station.
She has won many awards from Quark for her work and to my knowledge she has worked with some questionable gear but color issuses from said gear never hindered her work. I can't imagine the issues with the old moniters nor color accuracy from a 17" NEC CRT.
I also agree "ALL" companies, not just Apple, should have set standards for screens as we all have to use/look at them for hours on end as lcds are becoming the norm.

Enjoy your new iMacs or not and I'm going back to making my cartoons, peace :cool:
 
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