MP 6,1 New internal SSD (WD_Black SN750 2TB) not showing during setup on late 2013 Mac Pro

[adam94]

Correct.

Like I wrote before, the macOS installer will upgrade the firmware. I'd install Mojave right now and check if can at least complete the install.

Yes.

So I went and booted back into Mojave using the USB stick I installed Mojave onto.......and now Disk Utility/everywhere else is suddenly not showing the internal SSD anywhere?? What the heck sense does that make? It's connected in just the same, machine has been untouched since last time I posted.....

To boot I just inserted the USB and pressed start...nothing special. Really don't get this...

 

[adam94]

@tsialex I even took it out and reformatted it in an external enclosure on another computer as Mac OS Extended and it didn't show up after reinstalling in Mac Pro. Couldn't run your command because it shows only as a volume of the enclosure, tried reformatting just the volume with your command w/ diskutils eraseVolume and didn't work either.

This is getting so frustrating not getting this thing to work...

 

[tsialex]

@tsialex I even took it out and reformatted it in an external enclosure on another computer as Mac OS Extended and it didn't show up after reinstalling in Mac Pro. Couldn't run your command because it shows only as a volume of the enclosure, tried reformatting just the volume with your command w/ diskutils eraseVolume and didn't work either.

This is getting so frustrating not getting this thing to work...

Get a cheap used 128/256GB SSUBX and test your Mac Pro with ASD and AppleDiagnostics, install Big Sur and update your Mac Pro firmware. Also test your new blade with a PC.

Something is clearly wrong, maybe it's the blade, maybe it's the adapter, maybe it's your Mac Pro.

 

[adam94]

Get a cheap used 128/256GB SSUBX and test your Mac Pro with ASD and AppleDiagnostics, install Big Sur and update your Mac Pro firmware. Also test your new blade with a PC.

Would this work for completely upgrading the firmware and bringing my Mac Pro fully up to date, the 128gb model? https://beetstech.com/product/sspolaris-ssd-256gb-512gb-1tb-2tb

EDIT: Or would this SSD work/is the right one? Looks more like right SSD and says SSUBX but doesn't expressly mention Mac Pro late 2013 support on the page like the prior link does: https://beetstech.com/product/solid-state-drive-a1502-a1398-2015

I'm not sure about ASD/AppleDiagnostics and don't have a PC to use but I ran it in the external enclosure which should count for something right? What honestly could it be/is your opinion at this point? How could it show up fine when I booted into Mojave after first installing it on the USB but then not on a subsequent boot after the machine was untouched?

Do you think it makes sense to return the SSD? Feels like I might as well take advantage of return policy in off chance the drive is the issue even if I re-order the same one. Would you recommend replacing with the same model or are there any other 2tb models you recommend? My other choice was probably a Samsung 970 Evo plus, any issues with that?

 

[tsialex]

Would this work for completely upgrading the firmware and bringing my Mac Pro fully up to date? https://beetstech.com/product/sspolaris-ssd-256gb-512gb-1tb-2tb

Yes, but firmware is not the source of your blade working intermittently.

I'm not sure about ASD/AppleDiagnostics and don't have a PC to use but I ran it in the external enclosure which should count for something right? What honestly could it be/is your opinion at this point? How could it show up fine when I booted into Mojave after first installing it on the USB but then not on a subsequent boot after the machine was untouched?

Do you think it makes sense to return the SSD? Feels like I might as well take advantage of return policy in off chance the drive is the issue even if I re-order the same one. Would you recommend replacing with the same model or are there any other 2tb models you recommend? My other choice was probably a Samsung 970 Evo plus, any issues with that?

You don't know what is/are the issue(s) yet. The first step is to get your Mac Pro working with an AppleOEM blade and be sure that nothing is wrong with your MacPro. Doing anything else is just a waste of time right now.

Any of the blades of first post below should work, but when using adapters is best to check what people have being using successfully.

PCIe SSDs - NVMe & AHCI

This is a general info thread for blade SSDs that can be used in the Mac Pro. This is a WikiPost so anyone with the proper credentials may edit it. NVMe SSDs can be used as a boot drive in the MP5,1 and MP6,1 with the latest firmware installed (beginning with version 140.0.0.0.0 for MP5,1 and...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[ApplyPie]

You can get great speed with OWC's Aura Pro X2 as well, and you don't need to worry about a sketchy adapter.
Aura Pro X2

 

[adam94]

Is either of the two apple SSD's in my prior posts any better than the other? Are you sure the first one I listed (the SSPolaris) will work? It looks sorta like the newer 2019 MP SSD and the website said not compatible with my MP 2013 6,1 so just wanted to make sure before I order either.

You don't know what is/are the issue(s) yet. The first step is to get your Mac Pro working with an AppleOEM blade and be sure that nothing is wrong with your MacPro. Doing anything else is just a waste of time right now.

Will simply installing Mac OS (Big Sur or Monterey) on the apple SSD and booting it up be sufficient to determine my Mac Pro is fine?

Any of the blades of first post below should work, but when using adapters is best to check what people have being using successfully.

Regarding the post you referenced, I saw there was a firmware version needed to use the Samsung 970 Evo Plus: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/pcie-ssds-nvme-ahci.2146725/page-35#post-27385884

Based on what I've shared do you know if my machine already has this required firmware?

Also pardon my ignorance but in a practical way what is 4Kn support and is it particularly relevant for my use case?

 

[tsialex]

Is either of the two apple SSD's in my prior posts any better than the other?

My advice is to get a small (128/256GB) SSBUX, like I wrote.

Are you sure the first one I listed (the SSPolaris) will work?

Should work, it's the SSD from the late-2013 Mac Pros made from 2016ish to 2019.

It looks sorta like the newer 2019 MP SSD and the website said not compatible with my MP 2013 6,1 so just wanted to make sure before I order either.

2019 Mac Pro NAND modules are not compatible with anything else.

Will simply installing Mac OS (Big Sur or Monterey) on the apple SSD and booting it up be sufficient to determine my Mac Pro is fine?

No, you should run Apple Diagnostics and ASD to be sure. Also use your Mac Pro over several days.

Regarding the post you referenced, I saw there was a firmware version needed to use the Samsung 970 Evo Plus: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/pcie-ssds-nvme-ahci.2146725/page-35#post-27385884

I don't see why this matter more than 2 years later that the blade firmware with the correction started to be installed on all blades by the Samsung factory?

You won't buy a 970 EVO+ with the original firmware unless you get one that was forgotten in a warehouse for more than two years.

Based on what I've shared do you know if my machine already has this required firmware?

You asked this already - your Mac Pro current BootROM have support for NVMe and your blade problem is not related to the Mac Pro firmware version. Again, you already have a BootROM that fully support NVMe.

Also pardon my ignorance but in a practical way what is 4Kn support and is it particularly relevant for my use case?

Useful for some type workflows that demand huge files (like video editing), extremely detrimental to almost everything else. It's one of the things that if you don't know what it is, it's not something that matters to you.

 

[adam94]

My advice is to get a small (128/256GB) SSBUX, like I wrote.

Should work, it's the SSD from the late-2013 Mac Pros made from 2016ish to 2019.

2019 Mac Pro NAND modules are not compatible with anything else.

No, you should run Apple Diagnostics and ASD to be sure. Also use your Mac Pro over several days.

I don't see why this matter more than 2 years later that the blade firmware with the correction started to be installed on all blades by the Samsung factory?

You won't buy a 970 EVO+ with the original firmware unless you get one that was forgotten in a warehouse for more than two years.

You asked this already - your Mac Pro current BootROM have support for NVMe and your blade problem is not related to the Mac Pro firmware version. Again, you already have a BootROM that fully support NVMe.

Useful for some type workflows that demand huge files (like video editing), extremely detrimental to almost everything else. It's one of the things that if you don't know what it is, it's not something that matters to you.

Well I finally got the 256gb SSUBX ssd, the one I linked earlier in fact, as well as a Sabrent Rocket Q 2tb.

Planning on installing the SSUBX with Big Sur soon, do you have any recommendations on what to do with ASD/AppleDiagnostics? My understanding is that's something you have to take into an Apple store to do, or is there some type of software I can download and run tests myself you meant by that?

Also when setting up the SSUBX and Sabrent do you still recommend using the command you provided and using HFS+ for both? Will that effectively format to APFS all said and done or be easily upgraded to APFS later on? Just curious because everything I read recommends formatting APFS straight away.

Do you have any opinions on the Sabrent rocket Q? It seemed to have good compatibility from the main thread linked prior but curious if you have any other experience/knowledge

 

[tsialex]

Well I finally got the 256gb SSUBX ssd, the one I linked earlier in fact, as well as a Sabrent Rocket Q 2tb.

Planning on installing the SSUBX with Big Sur soon, do you have any recommendations on what to do with ASD/AppleDiagnostics?

Besides running both and getting a clean bill of health for your Mac? No.

My understanding is that's something you have to take into an Apple store to do, or is there some type of software I can download and run tests myself you meant by that?

You can run yourself.

AHT you can know how to download and install reading this article on github:

GitHub - upekkha/AppleHardwareTest: Apple Hardware Test Download Links

Apple Hardware Test Download Links. Contribute to upekkha/AppleHardwareTest development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

ASD you will need to search yourself, I'm not going to link to it since it's an internal Apple tool. Use the search.

Also when setting up the SSUBX and Sabrent do you still recommend using the command you provided and using HFS+ for both?

Yes, for both.

Will that effectively format to APFS all said and done or be easily upgraded to APFS later on? Just curious because everything I read recommends formatting APFS straight away.

I've already explained how this works in detail, even with the commands that you need to do. I'm not going to do it again, please go back to my answer and re-read my previous posts.

Again, don't try to be smarter than the macOS installer.

Do you have any opinions on the Sabrent rocket Q? It seemed to have good compatibility from the main thread linked prior but curious if you have any other experience/knowledge

While I don't use low endurance QLC blades with workstations, you can always use whatever you want.

MacPro6,1 is exactly the type of workstation that you need endurance and reliability for your storage, you have just one internal blade and the common workflows for a late-2013 Mac Pro, like video-editing or software developing, literally destroy blades overtime.

 

[adam94]

Besides running both and getting a clean bill of health for your Mac? No.

You can run yourself.

AHT you can know how to download and install reading this article on github:

GitHub - upekkha/AppleHardwareTest: Apple Hardware Test Download Links

Apple Hardware Test Download Links. Contribute to upekkha/AppleHardwareTest development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

ASD you will need to search yourself, I'm not going to link to it since it's an internal Apple tool. Use the search.

Yes, for both.

I've already explained how this works in detail, even with the commands that you need to do. I'm not going to do it again, please go back to my answer and re-read my previous posts.

Again, don't try to be smarter than the macOS installer.

While I don't use low endurance QLC blades with workstations, you can always use whatever you want.

MacPro6,1 is exactly the type of workstation that you need endurance and reliability for your storage, you have just one internal blade and the common workflows for a late-2013 Mac Pro, like video-editing or software developing, literally destroy blades overtime.

On the Github doc you linked strangely the Mac Pro 6,1 model seemed the only one missing from the downloads/lists of supported models. Would a diff Mac pro version work for the 6,1 or am I missing something maybe?

For the blade being low endurance that isn't something I saw while googling before buying, mainly because I hadn't realized the implications of the different NAND types. Outside of usual software dev and heavy web browsing/lots of tabs and other apps running there isn't anything too intense I have planned like video editing etc. To make sure I understand you correctly, the performance will be more or less similar but the ssd will go bad some # of years sooner? Any idea roughly how many years that may be? Because if it means buying a new SSD in 2-3 years that's not a big deal to me as I may want a new Mac Pro by then anyhow.

Do you think it will make enough of a difference to be worth exchanging for one of the gen 4 TLC Sabrent blades like this one?

Lastly, do you think it would be an issue when I first install the SSUBX to invest the time setting back up my intended system on the SSUBX and then when ready time machine clone it to the Sabrent (either current or newer gen4 I linked) instead of setting the Sabrent up from scratch again? And I assume if I do I should still reformat the Sabrent with your command before doing the time machine install or would it not make a difference?

 

[adam94]

@tsialex Also would there be any compatibility issues using a NVME 4.0 drive like this gen 4 TLC sabrent rocket in the 2013 Mac Pro 6,1?

 

[tsialex]

On the Github doc you linked strangely the Mac Pro 6,1 model seemed the only one missing from the downloads/lists of supported models. Would a diff Mac pro version work for the 6,1 or am I missing something maybe?

Apple probably removed AHT for MacPro6,1 since AppleDiagnostics superseded it. Run AppleDiagnostics and ASD.

For the blade being low endurance that isn't something I saw while googling before buying, mainly because I hadn't realized the implications of the different NAND types. Outside of usual software dev and heavy web browsing/lots of tabs and other apps running there isn't anything too intense I have planned like video editing etc. To make sure I understand you correctly, the performance will be more or less similar but the ssd will go bad some # of years sooner? Any idea roughly how many years that may be? Because if it means buying a new SSD in 2-3 years that's not a big deal to me as I may want a new Mac Pro by then anyhow.

Low endurance blades when used on workflows that have lot's of erases/re-writes can die in months, not years. This is tricky and I've saw people killing blades with just constant use of torrents.

Do you think it will make enough of a difference to be worth exchanging for one of the gen 4 TLC Sabrent blades like this one?

Very bad idea, lot's of reports of compatibility problems with PCIe v4.0 blades when installed on MacPro5,1 PCIe v2.0 slots. MacPro6,1 12+6 blade connector is a PCIe v2.0 slot and even more finicky than MacPro5,1 one. At least with a MacPro5,1 you can buy a PCIe switched card with PCIe v3.0/v4.0 switches and use PCIe v4.0 blades, you can't do the same with a MacPro6,1.

Lastly, do you think it would be an issue when I first install the SSUBX to invest the time setting back up my intended system on the SSUBX and then when ready time machine clone it to the Sabrent (either current or newer gen4 I linked) instead of setting the Sabrent up from scratch again? And I assume if I do I should still reformat the Sabrent with your command before doing the time machine install or would it not make a difference?

I personally don't like to clone BigSur and Monterey disks, had enough headaches with snapshots and TM.

You can test and see if works for you or not.

 

[Php4u]

Your 136.0.0.0.0 BootROM release is from Mojave, so you will need a firmware upgrade to the current release (429.60.3.0.0) to run anything newer.

Back to the blade, did you tried to fully nuke (completely erase) your blade and re-create the partition?

Something like:

diskutil list
diskutil erasedisk jhfs+ "Macintosh HD" GPT diskXX

Check what is the real device name for your blade with diskutil list then you change diskXX to the real device name (disk0 on your screenshot, but this changes each boot).

Don't format it as APFS, format as HFS+, the macOS installer will reformat it correctly later on when creating the containers.

Thanks!

It worked great for my 2TB Sabrant Rocket NVMe drive. I booted into Mojave, erased and formatted the drive, then installed Mojave and the subsequent OS updates.

Thanks again!

 

[krakman]

Slightly off topic!!!!!

Wow what a coincidence I'm just trying to install the WD 750 2tb NVME into my 2015 15 inch macbook pro and I have encountered the same phenomenon.

The laptop had Monterey installed but using the internet recovery the laptop tries to install El Capitan. unfortunately EL Capitan does not see the unformatted NVME drive.

I then rebooted with a Monterey installer USB I had created for OC on my 5.1 Mac Pro. The Monterey installer DID see the NVME drive. I was able to format it to APFS and then install Monterey.

My hypothesis is that even if you have the latest firmware the Mac OS version that internet recovery tries to install may be too old to see the NVME drive.

I will do this SSD upgrade to my Trashcan 6.1 at some point soon with the same WD NVME drive so I will test out my theory.

Note about the WD 750: there are people complaining on the WD forum about a bug in the firmware affecting transfer speed. I did a Blackmagic speed test and got approx 2700 MBps read and write.

 

[Soba]

Slightly off topic!!!!!

Wow what a coincidence I'm just trying to install the WD 750 2tb NVME into my 2015 15 inch macbook pro and I have encountered the same phenomenon.

The laptop had Monterey installed but using the internet recovery the laptop tries to install El Capitan. unfortunately EL Capitan does not see the unformatted NVME drive.

I then rebooted with a Monterey installer USB I had created for OC on my 5.1 Mac Pro. The Monterey installer DID see the NVME drive. I was able to format it to APFS and then install Monterey.

My hypothesis is that even if you have the latest firmware the Mac OS version that internet recovery tries to install may be too old to see the NVME drive.

I will do this SSD upgrade to my 6.1 At some point soon with he same WD NVME drive so I will test out my theory.

I'm curious what startup key combination you used to enter Internet recovery. Usually Option-Command-R will give you the latest macOS supported by your Mac, but Shift-Option-Command-R will give you the version of macOS that came with your Mac.

Looking up the document for this again now, this is what it currently says at https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204904 :

When you install macOS from Recovery, you get the current version of the most recently installed macOS, with some exceptions:

• On an Intel-based Mac, you can use Shift-Option-Command-R during startup to be offered the macOS that came with your Mac, or the closest version still available. Or you can use Option-Command-R during startup to be offered either the latest macOS that is compatible with your Mac, or in some cases the macOS that came with your Mac or the closest version still available.
• If the Mac logic board was just replaced, you might be offered only the latest macOS that is compatible with your Mac.
• If you just erased your entire startup disk, you might be offered only the macOS that came with your Mac, or the closest version still available.

I've noticed over the last few years that this document has changed several times. I'm not sure if that's due to changes in firmware behavior or due to bugs. I love how they say "in some cases" you won't get the latest macOS, without explaining what those cases are.

My experience with Internet recovery has been pretty reliable since Apple introduced it and the startup key combinations work as expected. It's good to know that Apple's own document acknowledges that sometimes it doesn't work. (Perhaps I should put "good" in quotes because overall I'm not sure it's so good. )

 

[krakman]

I'm curious what startup key combination you used to enter Internet recovery. Usually Option-Command-R will give you the latest macOS supported by your Mac, but Shift-Option-Command-R will give you the version of macOS that came with your Mac.

If only I had known this a few hours ago!!!!

I just pressed CMD+R and it took me to the EL Capitan installer.

 

[Soba]

If only I had known this a few hours ago!!!!

I just pressed CMD+R and it took me to the EL Capitan installer.

Cmd+R will load recovery from the local disk if a recovery partition is available. If there is no recovery partition (such as after replacing the disk) then the system will automatically fall back to Internet recovery and will usually try to install the OS that was installed when your system shipped from the factory.

In the future, Option-Command-R should get you on the latest macOS and save you a lot of time and headaches.

 

[krakman]

Update 2: Looks like the WD 770 is going back. I'm experiencing several KP on startup and the crash report mentions: "3rd party NVMe controller. Loss of MMIO space"a quick google shownsa number of people having similar issues.

I think I will return it for the WD 750 as I know that works fine in the Laptop.


Update 1: the WD750 2tb with amazon NVME adaptor fitted perfectly into my 15inch 2015 MBP and has been working flawlessly for the last few months.

So I decided to upgrade the SSD in my 6.1 Trashcan.

I bought a WD770 2TB, only because it was on offer at Ebuyer UK and was cheaper than the older 750 2TB SSDs.

I bought the same NVME adaptor from Amazon as I had good results with it in my laptop: NVME adaptor

The SSD and drive fitted perfectly into the Trashcan, nothing like the photos the OP posted.

As Soba mentioned in a post above: Option-Command-R should get you on the latest macOS

Using the above key combination internet recovery started up. The disk utility program recognised the WD 770 drive and allowed me to format it to APFS.

Internet recovery then proceeded to install Monterey 12.4.

Et Voila - 8 years after buying this heap of crap computer I finally have a decent sized SSD inside of it.

This Trashcan has only been used for light browsing for several years because it suffered from the dreaded 'GPU restart freeze' and also the 'crash on wake from sleep', however since a recent Monterey firmware update it has been very stable and I'm actually editing a wedding video on it!!!!!

After regretting buying this computer for the best part of a decade, I have come to the conclusion that its design was far ahead of its time. If Apple were to release an Apple Silicon version of this with upgradeable RAM and SSDs then I would happily buy one again, but I digress and my opinions are for another thread....


Speed test below - Read/Write 5gb file