New iPad Pro 11 USB-C Data transfer speeds

[masotime]

I have this which I use with my iPhone 8 Plus and iPad Pro 10.5 which is very very slow

There are multiple Apple USB-C / thunderbolt cables. Are you sure you have this specific one? I think you are thinking about the USB-C to lightning cable, which is completely different - both the iPhone 8 Plus and the iPad Pro 10.5 have a lightning port, not a USB-C / thunderbolt port.

 

[stylinexpat]

There are multiple Apple USB-C / thunderbolt cables. Are you sure you have this specific one? I think you are thinking about the USB-C to lightning cable, which is completely different - both the iPhone 8 Plus and the iPad Pro 10.5 have a lightning port, not a USB-C / thunderbolt port.

Yes, two different cables...

So when you but the iPad Pro I presume it comes with a cable. Which cable does it come with and is it the fastest cable for data transfer or does one have to buy one separately to get the faster data transfer rates (For the new iPad Pro)?

Then for the iPhone 8 Plus and older iPad Pro 10.5 I am looking to see which cables provides fastest data transfer speeds as well and how to test all of them cables for data transfer speeds

 

[Mike Boreham]

Thanks...I may do that but will see how I go with the USB-C to USB-A one before getting yet another cable.

OK I have had a chance to do some measuring with my USB-C to USB-A (USB 3,1) cable bought in Maplins before they went under.

The cable transferred 316GB in 63 mins, which I am pretty pleased with. (This is the cable which doesn’t give the too much power message).

 

[masotime]

Yes, two different cables...

So when you but the iPad Pro I presume it comes with a cable. Which cable doers it come with and is it the fastest cable for data transfer or does one have to buy one separately to get the faster data transfer rates (For the new iPad Pro)?

The cable that comes with the iPad Pros aren't very fast, even with the new 11"/12.9" ones. They are mainly designed to carry power, and are probably 5Gbps at the most. Apple rarely packages top-end accessories with their products

Then for the iPhone 8 Plus and older iPad Pro 10.5 I am looking to see which cables provides fastest data transfer speeds as well and how to test all of them cables for data transfer speeds

Unfortunately there's only one MFi USB-C to Lightning cable made by Apple. I can't find specifications, but I think it is capped to USB 3.1 Gen 1 speeds or 5Gbps as mentioned above. Anker and other third party manufacturer's are creating their own, but I don't know if it'll be faster.

Power wise, the MFi USB-C to Lightning cables can all charge at 30W, probably more.

If high transfer speeds are a priority, I believe only a 2018 USB-C iPad Pro + high speed USB-C to USB-C cable will work. The Apple Thunderbolt 3 cable is a bit overkill, but it's guaranteed to have the fastest transfer rates.

 

[ikkysleepy]

OK I have had a chance to do some measuring with my USB-C to USB-A (USB 3,1) cable bought in Maplins before they went under.

The cable transferred 316GB in 63 mins, which I am pretty pleased with. (This is the cable which doesn’t give the too much power message).

Seems like the fastest speed I seen which is about 84 MB/s ( 316 *1000 / 63 / 60) but far from the theoretical speed of 625 MB/s or like they say 5 Gbps. It’s just disappointing to see such poor performance for a “Pro” level device compared to a laptop.

 

[Mike Boreham]

Seems like the fastest speed I seen which is about 84 MB/s ( 316 *1000 / 63 / 60) but far from the theoretical speed of 625 MB/s or like they say 5 Gbps. It’s just disappointing to see such poor performance for a “Pro” level device compared to a laptop.

Forget theoretical maximums....they are not achieved by anything in the real world.

 

[rui no onna]

Forget theoretical maximums....they are not achieved by anything in the real world.

What were you transferring? Photos and other small files, that figure is acceptable.

It's significantly slower than possible for videos, though. I can get sustained, real-world throughput of 200MB/s on SATA 3.0 SSD to USB 3.0 SSD transfer when copying multi-gigabyte files (that's without UASP support).

 

[ikkysleepy]

Forget theoretical maximums....they are not achieved by anything in the real world.

Yeah the theoretical is a bunch of BS, but only getting ~14% is just really slow. I can get 440 MB/s on my USB 3.0 external drive, on my 2015 MBP. On my 2017 Windows machine I can get 540 MB/s. I am not expecting 540 MB/s but getting what my 4 year old laptop gets would be great... even 50% would be nice. I really hope the next ipad pro support usb 4 and fixes the slow transfer speed performance.

 

[stylinexpat]

Speaking of cables.. I spent quite a bit of time at a few factories yesterday going over cable specs.
Most factories have or can get the good stuff. It is their customer cutting cost. The pass part depends on what they set it to pass at. They plug each one in manually and then either get a pass or fail.

 

[EugW]

With my 2017 iPad Pro 10.5” and an old Transcend “600X” CompactFlash card, I can get 70 MB/s transfer speeds over USB 3.

I think that is a card limitation. Unfortunately, I don’t have any faster cards to test.

 

[stylinexpat]

The problem most and many manufacturers run into is the royalty fees that Apple want for the MFI chipset to be certified. The MFI chipset certification is half the problem and then you run into materials used inside of cable and thickness of that cable. Believe it or not wholesale cost can vary up to 10 times.

https://iphone.appleinsider.com/art...ving-way-for-more-affordable-ios-accessories-

 

[ikkysleepy]

USB C cables don't need MFI certification. Wholesale cost can be much higher than 10 times. I use to work at Radio Shack, back in the day, and someone stole a 6ft fiber optic cable. I was worried because the retail price was $35 but my manager started to laugh and said not to worry about. I was like really? really? So she showed me what Radio Shack actually paid and it was $1.25 , so they sold the cable at a 2700% increase, and that's when I knew cables are a bunch of BS and cost nothing to make. I don't know what happened to USB 3 but it's all messed up; Some USB 3.0 cables allow for power and some allow for data and some allow for both and some work better for windows and some work better or mac and some just work well for all but cost too much. I haven't read up much on usb 4 but I think it's looking like USB 4 will just do everything and be compatible with all so even cheap cables will do the job well.

 

[stylinexpat]

I met a few engineers today from a couple of the factories I had visited. From what I was told the new iPad Pro 11 does not have USB 3 support for fast data transfer. There are supposedly 4 lanes/Pins used for 4K Video support which use the USB 3 part and the rest of the remaining pins are use on the reversible pin part. The engineer said he was sure about this part as his company too was trying to work on a hub for the MacBook Pro. Their cost for the Intel chipset is $40 for Thunderbolt 3. I would assume Apple may get a discount but I would assume the high cost is a reason that apple did not add this feature to the iPad Pro. Heck even Microsoft passed on adding it to their Surface tablets as well.

 

[EugW]

I met a few engineers today from a couple of the factories I had visited. From what I was told the new iPad Pro 11 does not have USB 3 support for fast data transfer. There are supposedly 4 lanes/Pins used for 4K Video support which use the USB 3 part and the rest of the remaining pins are use on the reversible pin part. The engineer said he was sure about this part as his company too was trying to work on a hub for the MacBook Pro. Their cost for the Intel chipset is $40 for Thunderbolt 3. I would assume Apple may get a discount but I would assume the high cost is a reason that apple did not add this feature to the iPad Pro. Heck even Microsoft passed on adding it to their Surface tablets as well.

Either you misunderstood or else that engineer does not know what he’s talking about.

The 11” iPad Pro most definitely supports USB 3 transfer speeds. Hell, even my 2017 model does and mine only has a Lightning port, not USB-C.

None of them support Thunderbolt 3, but that’s something completely different.

 

[stylinexpat]

Either you misunderstood or else that engineer does not know what he’s talking about.

The 11” iPad Pro most definitely supports USB 3 transfer speeds. Hell, even my 2017 model does and mine only has a Lightning port, not USB-C.

None of them support Thunderbolt 3, but that’s something completely different.

From what the engineer said it does support USB 3 transfer speeds but they are dedicated to the 4K Screen resolution and not the actual data transfer between iPad and MacBook Pro.

https://www.9to5mac.com/2018/11/07/ipad-pro-usb-c-accessories/amp/

https://www.cultofmac.com/586972/ipad-pro-usb-c/amp/
[doublepost=1555774609][/doublepost]Here...
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...funny-convo-with-a-senior-supervisor.2033968/

 

[EugW]

From what the engineer said it does support USB 3 transfer speeds but they are dedicated to the 4K Screen resolution and not the actual data transfer between iPad and MacBook Pro.

https://www.9to5mac.com/2018/11/07/ipad-pro-usb-c-accessories/amp/

https://www.cultofmac.com/586972/ipad-pro-usb-c/amp/
[doublepost=1555774609][/doublepost]Here...
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...funny-convo-with-a-senior-supervisor.2033968/

View attachment 833067

I don't think you are understanding that post correctly. The iPad Pro's (and 12" MacBook's) USB-C port fully supports USB 3 speeds for data transfers. However, you can't support both 4Kp60 and USB 3 simultaneously through the same USB-C port (if it doesn't support Thunderbolt 3). If you want 4Kp60, then you must drop down to USB 2 for a multi-function hub through a single USB-C port. It's a limitation of the technology. However, you can have both 4Kp30 and USB 3 simultaneously through the same USB-C port in a multi-function hub.

USB-C without Thunderbolt 3
4Kp60 alone - Supported
USB 3 alone - Supported
4Kp30 + USB 3 - Supported
4Kp60 + USB 2 - Supported
4Kp60 + USB 3 - Not supported

In fact, some multi-function hubs have reprogrammable firmwares that allow either 4Kp60 + USB 2 or else 4Kp30 + USB 3 depending upon what the vendor wants to sell.

That's why it's better to have two separate USB-C ports. An alternative would be a USB-C port with Thunderbolt support, but the peripherals for this are much more expensive.

 

[stylinexpat]

I don't think you are understanding that post correctly. The iPad Pro's (and 12" MacBook's) USB-C port fully supports USB 3 speeds for data transfers. However, you can't support both 4Kp60 and USB 3 simultaneously through the same USB-C port (if it doesn't support Thunderbolt 3). If you want 4Kp60, then you must drop down to USB 2 for a multi-function hub through a single USB-C port. It's a limitation of the technology. However, you can have both 4Kp30 and USB 3 simultaneously through the same USB-C port in a multi-function hub.

USB-C without Thunderbolt 3
4Kp60 alone - Supported
USB 3 alone - Supported
4Kp30 + USB 3 - Supported
4Kp60 + USB 2 - Supported
4Kp60 + USB 3 - Not supported

In fact, some multi-function hubs have reprogrammable firmwares that allow either 4Kp60 + USB 2 or else 4Kp30 + USB 3 depending upon what the vendor wants to sell.

That's why it's better to have two separate USB-C ports. An alternative would be a USB-C port with Thunderbolt support, but the peripherals for this are much more expensive.

He said that the iPad Pro’s USB C 3 could support for data but 4 of the lanes were dedicated to the 4K screen and the rest did not have anything dedicated to USB C 3 Gen 1 or 2 for data transfer speeds. The USB C plug is reversible and from what I know of a 24 pin is reversible then only 12 can be used for each side. The 4K data transfer to the best of me knowledge uses 4 pins of USB 3 for data transfer and from what I was told they don’t share the same data transfer with actual data transfer as they are dedicated for the 4K screen part. This then leaves us with 8 more, of the 8 you have Pins needed for power and other other stuff. Trying to confirm with engineer now. I could be wrong, will update and confirm once I get confirmation from engineer.
https://www.androidauthority.com/what-is-usb-type-c-594575/amp/

 

[EugW]

He said that the iPad Pro’s USB C 3 could support for data but 4 of the lanes were dedicated to the 4K screen and the rest did not have anything dedicated to USB C 3 Gen 1 or 2 for data transfer speeds. The USB C plug is reversible and from what I know of a 24 pin is reversible then only 12 can be used for each side. The 4K data transfer to the best of me knowledge uses 4 pins of USB 3 for data transfer and from what I was told they don’t share the same data transfer with actual data transfer as they are dedicated for the 4K screen part. This then leaves us with 8 more, of the 8 you have Pins needed for power and other other stuff. Trying to confirm with engineer now. I could be wrong, will update and confirm once I get confirmation from engineer.
https://www.androidauthority.com/what-is-usb-type-c-594575/amp/

It sounds to me that you think that the implementation is fixed that way. That is not correct. The chipset is smart enough to change the configuration as needed, depending on what's connected to it. Lots of people get USB 3 speeds out of the 2018 iPad Pros.

To reiterate, yet again: My point is that you don't get USB 3 transfer speeds if you are SIMULTANEOUSLY running a 4K 60 Hz screen. However, if you are not simultaneously running a 4K 60 Hz screen, you get USB 3 transfer speeds just fine. In my previous post, I already listed the various combinations of what you can have running at any one time through that USB-C port.

BTW, you keep saying "4K", but to be more accurate, you should be talking about "4K 60 Hz", because you can get 4K 30 Hz plus USB 3 transfer speeds simultaneously fine. You just can't get 4K 60 Hz and USB 3 at the same time through USB-C. Unfortunately 30 Hz is not an ideal way to run your monitor.

P.S. I'm not sure if you missed it, but earlier I mentioned I get USB 3 speeds out of my old 2017 10.5" iPad Pro too, via its Lightning port. The key is just to use the appropriate USB 3 adapter and USB 3 cable / peripheral.

 

[stylinexpat]

It sounds to me that you think that the implementation is fixed that way. That is not correct. The chipset is smart enough to change the configuration as needed, depending on what's connected to it. Lots of people get USB 3 speeds out of the 2018 iPad Pros.

To reiterate, yet again: My point is that you don't get USB 3 transfer speeds if you are SIMULTANEOUSLY running a 4K 60 Hz screen. However, if you are not simultaneously running a 4K 60 Hz screen, you get USB 3 transfer speeds just fine. In my previous post, I already listed the various combinations of what you can have running at any one time through that USB-C port.

BTW, you keep saying "4K", but to be more accurate, you should be talking about "4K 60 Hz", because you can get 4K 30 Hz plus USB 3 transfer speeds simultaneously fine. You just can't get 4K 60 Hz and USB 3 at the same time through USB-C. Unfortunately 30 Hz is not an ideal way to run your monitor.

P.S. I'm not sure if you missed it, but earlier I mentioned I get USB 3 speeds out of my old 2017 10.5" iPad Pro too, via its Lightning port. The key is just to use the appropriate USB 3 adapter and USB 3 cable / peripheral.

Correct 4K 60Hz. You are right.. I will update on rest once cable engineers get back to me.

 

[masotime]

Why not have @bill-p contribute directly to this thread instead of going via PMs...?

 

[bill-p]

Well, I'm not a cable engineer, but...

Yeah, I guess OP is misunderstanding the tech.

USB-C does scale dynamically depending on what it's connected to. So... for instance, you can choose to have 4K60 with only USB 2.0 transfer speeds, or 4K30 with full USB 3.0. This is achieved through having the controller decide what the SuperSpeed pins are used for.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB-C#Modes

You can "kinda" think of 4K60 mode as taking up everything else and leaving just the USB 2.0 pins available for more data transfer, and then 4K30 only use up half of the SuperSpeed pins, leaving the others free for USB 3.0 + you still get the USB 2.0 pins.

Thunderbolt 3 is just a different beast, on that note.

And cable length also matters. The "short" (oh God, the pun) of it is... shorter cables are best for transfer speed.

On that note, the rumored upcoming "use iPad as external drawing tablet screen" mode is also fully possible with USB-C delivering display data + USB 3.0 transfer speed between Mac and iPad Pro, considering none of the iPads have resolution as high as 4K.

At 2732x2048 resolution for the largest iPad Pro (12.9), I did some quick math and figured that would require about 8Gbit/s transfer rate for 8-bit per color channel, or just about 10Gbit/s transfer rate for 10-bit per color channel (I highly doubt the iPad Pro has 10-bit display panels, but I could be wrong). So the math kinda works out. It rubs up against the bandwidth limit but doesn't exceed it. Even 0.5Gbit more and you'd lose USB 3.0 speed.

 

[EugW]

I suspect the iPad Pros are like the iMacs. 8-bit panels but with FRC dithering.

 

[bill-p]

Well, even if it's 8-bit + FRC dithering, the signal being sent still has to be 10-bit so it eats up bandwidth all the same.

I guess there's one reason the new 5K iMac doesn't have target display mode. You'd need two cables and Apple still sells a computer with only one USB-C port.

 

[Susurs]

Any possible changes on iPadOS 14 beta and usb-c SD card reader speeds? In noticed that the adapter transfer speeds are very fast on a MacBook with USB-C/TB3, however on the iPad pro transfer speeds are slower.

 

[AutomaticApple]

Any possible changes on iPadOS 14 beta and usb-c SD card reader speeds? In noticed that the adapter transfer speeds are very fast on a MacBook with USB-C/TB3, however on the iPad pro transfer speeds are slower.

No, I haven't noticed any different speeds while on the beta.