New Lowend 13" Macbook air to have 2 gb?

[Young Spade]

I agree with your post for the most part. However, even though they only hold about 10% of the computer market (in the US, less elsewhere), I don't see Apple trying to make computers for the average Joe Schmoe. They have now reached a status where they can charge a premium price for products because they come with a premium brand name. The way I see it, its like a consumer buying a $1500 Gucci bag versus a $150 D&B that you could pick up at any Macys. Similar form and function, different brands, way different price points. People who want a Mac will buy a Mac, regardless of whether it has 2GB or 4GB. If they want the 4GB, they'll pay for the upgrade, just as they did last fall (with the latest refresh). For the general population that doesn't really care about specs, Macs sell, in a big part, due to the strength of Apple's name. If price was that big of a consideration (going with your example), then those consumers would go with the $500 4GB windows laptop regardless of what specs the Mac has. But if they want a Mac, they'll pay the extra $5-6-7-8-900 and get the Mac, just as they always have.

I agree, but Apple always wants to expand. yes they are a premium brand and they know this, hence the high prices and the high premium on products with par/sub par internals. I know this.

They do, however, want to continue to grow. The iPhone is one of the biggest, if no the "biggest" phones out right now and here in the States, it's the most popular phone. They also want to achieve this status with Macbooks.

I'm not arguing against the fact that there is a strong fanbase for Apple products that will continue throughout the years, I know this, but if Apple wants to grow, they need to appeal to the people who also fit that 'apple criteria" and would love their machines, however things like tech specs are holding them back.

Go into any forum; the people there are knowledgeable about their products. What's the first thing people say against Apple computers? Overpriced. For many people, it isn't actually the price, it's the price and the performance you get with a machine. If I didn't like Apple products, i would have just gone with a 1000 Thinkpad and love the thing. I don't want to work with Windows, however, so I'm stuck with the MBP as my future machine.

I love the Pro, however technically, it's inferior to a Thinkpad of the same price. You can argue trackpad and build, however I actually love the nub and thinkpads are known for their durability and build quality. Looking at it objectively, the thinkpad offers better specs for the price.

That's the market Apple needs to infiltrate: The market of people who are concerned with tech specs. Heck, the MBs can run Windows 7 natively and when I get my new pro in a week or so, I'm installing Windows 7 day 1 for games and working in a Windows environment if I have to do so in the future.

So to recap, I agree with everything that you're saying. I feel the exact same way. I just think that, from my experiences, there is an untapped but very winnable market out there filled with people who are concerned with specs and the performance the machine gives. I always talk about the experience, how, although I used a 07 MB up until now with 4 gigs of RAM, I was at least 3 times more productive on that machine my last quarter of my freshman semester than I have ever been on ANY windows machine. I consider myself a power user and there are many people out there like me.

Luckily, I just took the jump for "no" reason after finding that MB for a steal and I've been hooked. If I didn't find that notebook online, I would have went straight for the Thinkpad that was bookmarked and ready to go a day later.

 

[ritmomundo]

I agree, but Apple always wants to expand. yes they are a premium brand and they know this, hence the high prices and the high premium on products with par/sub par internals. I know this.

They do, however, want to continue to grow. The iPhone is one of the biggest, if no the "biggest" phones out right now and here in the States, it's the most popular phone. They also want to achieve this status with Macbooks.

I'm not arguing against the fact that there is a strong fanbase for Apple products that will continue throughout the years, I know this, but if Apple wants to grow, they need to appeal to the people who also fit that 'apple criteria" and would love their machines, however things like tech specs are holding them back.

Go into any forum; the people there are knowledgeable about their products. What's the first thing people say against Apple computers? Overpriced. For many people, it isn't actually the price, it's the price and the performance you get with a machine. If I didn't like Apple products, i would have just gone with a 1000 Thinkpad and love the thing. I don't want to work with Windows, however, so I'm stuck with the MBP as my future machine.

I love the Pro, however technically, it's inferior to a Thinkpad of the same price. You can argue trackpad and build, however I actually love the nub and thinkpads are known for their durability and build quality. Looking at it objectively, the thinkpad offers better specs for the price.

That's the market Apple needs to infiltrate: The market of people who are concerned with tech specs. Heck, the MBs can run Windows 7 natively and when I get my new pro in a week or so, I'm installing Windows 7 day 1 for games and working in a Windows environment if I have to do so in the future.

So to recap, I agree with everything that you're saying. I feel the exact same way. I just think that, from my experiences, there is an untapped but very winnable market out there filled with people who are concerned with specs and the performance the machine gives. I always talk about the experience, how, although I used a 07 MB up until now with 4 gigs of RAM, I was at least 3 times more productive on that machine my last quarter of my freshman semester than I have ever been on ANY windows machine. I consider myself a power user and there are many people out there like me.

Luckily, I just took the jump for "no" reason after finding that MB for a steal and I've been hooked. If I didn't find that notebook online, I would have went straight for the Thinkpad that was bookmarked and ready to go a day later.

I agree with absolutely everything you say. And matter of fact, you make my point for me. Apple does want to grow, and IS growing. In 2000, Apple only had 2.7% of the market share of personal computers, and currently, they've got 11%. Source. That's growth, even with high prices and subpar specs. In fact, the Mac's market share has gone up as the PC market share has gone down. Source. So I don't really think Apple has anything to worry about. They seem to be gaining customers just fine even with disappointing specs.

Oh, and Apple does appeal to those people that want better tech specs, but, as you said, for a premium price (going even higher than the Thinkpad). Say you wanted a top of the line 17" laptop. You can definitely get one from Apple, fully decked out. They've got it, BUT its gonna cost you (premium brand, premium price). Its like the Mercedes C-Class. Its great for people who want a base model Mercedes because its a Mercedes. But if you want something better, like an S-Class, its gonna cost you a lot more. If you're saying that Apple needs to start appealing to people who want cheaper machines with better tech specs (like a better spec'ed 4GB at the base model price), then I don't think that's gonna happen as long as they've got consumers eating out of their hands.

However, all this said and done, I could very well be wrong in 2 days. Only time will tell.

 

[Young Spade]

If you're saying that Apple needs to start appealing to people who want cheaper machines with better tech specs (like a better spec'ed 4GB at the base model price), then I don't think that's gonna happen as long as they've got consumers eating out of their hands.

Cool cool. But as for this part, no. I'm saying that they can appeal to more people if they just increase the performance of their machines.

Lower the price of the 15 inch and keep the specs. 1700 is insane for a 15 inch laptop. Many people want the separate graphics card and the screen size but can't shovel out the extra cash. Yes you do get a quad processor as well, which obviously adds to the price.

Give the 13 inch models a higher resolution screen. The 13 inch Air has it, no reason why the MBP can't have it either.

Lower the price of upgrades within Apple. They can lower the price of HD / SSD or RAM upgrades by at least 100 bucks across the board. Storage and RAM are cheap; increase the baseline and take out the need to upgrade at insane prices. People will take notice.

Increase the base RAM of the MB to 4 gigs whenever they do a SB refresh.

Increase the RAM of the MBP to 6 gigs baseline. RAM is cheap; they can make more money if they lower the price; they'll sell more of it.

These are all easy, fast, cost effective ways to either increase their lineup or decrease the price of upgrades. Note everything I listed would keep their computers at a premium price, however they would give people more of an incentive to upgrade. Personally if I were to get the MBP, I'd buy it stock and put a higher HDD or SSD & RAM in there myself. Sure most people just get it there and spend extra, but for the many people here on this site, I'm sure some wouldn't mind paying 10/20 bucks over Amazon/Newegg to have it installed when their machine gets there. It also takes out the problem of keeping the RAM if something bad happens and the machine needs to be fixed.

 

[ritmomundo]

Cool cool. But as for this part, no. I'm saying that they can appeal to more people if they just increase the performance of their machines.

Lower the price of the 15 inch and keep the specs. 1700 is insane for a 15 inch laptop. Many people want the separate graphics card and the screen size but can't shovel out the extra cash. Yes you do get a quad processor as well, which obviously adds to the price.

Give the 13 inch models a higher resolution screen. The 13 inch Air has it, no reason why the MBP can't have it either.

Lower the price of upgrades within Apple. They can lower the price of HD / SSD or RAM upgrades by at least 100 bucks across the board. Storage and RAM are cheap; increase the baseline and take out the need to upgrade at insane prices. People will take notice.

Increase the base RAM of the MB to 4 gigs whenever they do a SB refresh.

Increase the RAM of the MBP to 6 gigs baseline. RAM is cheap; they can make more money if they lower the price; they'll sell more of it.

These are all easy, fast, cost effective ways to either increase their lineup or decrease the price of upgrades. Note everything I listed would keep their computers at a premium price, however they would give people more of an incentive to upgrade. Personally if I were to get the MBP, I'd buy it stock and put a higher HDD or SSD & RAM in there myself. Sure most people just get it there and spend extra, but for the many people here on this site, I'm sure some wouldn't mind paying 10/20 bucks over Amazon/Newegg to have it installed when their machine gets there. It also takes out the problem of keeping the RAM if something bad happens and the machine needs to be fixed.

I see what you're saying, but you're thinking from the viewpoint of the consumer (wanting more for less money) rather than from the viewpoint of the business (giving less for more money). Even if Apple were to increase the base RAM ($100 savings or loss, depending on who's side you're looking from), or lower the price of upgrades (~$100 savings or loss), people would still complain that macs are overpriced. That's not going to change. Sales might increase marginally, but I doubt it would be enough to offset the cost of decreasing prices or providing better specs at baseline prices (imagine how much extra money total Apple made by making the base RAM 2GB rather than 4GB, then charging to upgrade). Also, you say $1700 is insane for a 15" laptop, BUT whoever wants one finds a way to pay for one. Sure, maybe theres a few people out there who absolutely can't afford it, and thus can't get it. But I'm sure Apple's undoubtedly well-paid economists have figured out the most profitable price points (where sales and profit are both maximized).

There are a few different kinds of businesses. There are the new businesses that have yet to distinguish themselves in the industry. They will need to price their products low, and provide enough specs to get people to buy them. Then there are the average companies that have decently priced products with better specs (think the $500-$1000 HPs, Toshibas, and the other computers amidst the jungle of Best Buy's shelves). Then there are the companies that have distinguished themselves in the industry as having premium products at premium prices, and these are the companies that can get away with charging more for less (if anyone actually doubts Apple is a premium brand, well what other brand has its own "showroom" at Best Buy??). They go with the understanding that if they charge more for a product, and give less (and it STILL sells well), then the consumers will pay even more to get what they want.

You know, I can't even count the number of times I've come across a premium product with something listed as an upgrade or add-on for a hefty extra price, and wondered "if I'm paying this much, then why the heck doesn't this come standard?!? It should be obvious, right?!" For example, typical Levis jeans (~$60) come with 2 measurements (waist and length). Obvious, right? Duh. Premium jeans at $200+, like 7FAM only have waist sizes, and come in 1 standard length, which you then have to have tailored separately to fit your length. You'd think when you're paying more, you'd get the obvious feature, but you don't always. Another example, the older MBA. Their prices were well over $2000 (I dont remember exactly how much), and reactions then were, "are they CRAZY, that much money for a laptop without the disc drive!?!? It can do less and they charge way more!" But, whoever wanted one and could afford it, bought it. What about the iPhone? Yeah its a great product, I've got one too. But in a day where you can buy 64 GB microSD cards, these phones come with 16GB standard? And its built-in so that you can't even swap out memory cards? Same with the battery? And its only got a 5MP camera when other phones had 8MP? Nonetheless, it didn't stop me from buying one (or the other millions of people that bought one).

My point is, if people are WILLING to pay more for upgrades, then why would Apple give them away for free? The new price point of the MBAs is already attractive to many users. The obvious upgrades (SB, thunderbolt) are almost certain to be included in the refresh. I really don't think anyone's deciding factor on whether to buy the MBA or another brand's computer is how much RAM is included in the base model. If they want a mac, they'll get the base model. If they want more RAM, they'll pay more. In all likelihood, Apple won't gain any extra sales simply by having 4GB of RAM in the base model. And if they did, then they would lose all of the profit from what people would've spent on the upgrade.

 

[urkel]

2GB is ridiculous... why would Apple release a new computer with last gen's specs??

Hasn't that been the secret of their success? Upgrade enough specs to make the "new" model desirable, but leave out enough to make the next version feel worthwhile.

 

[Young Spade]

Text.

I know I'm addressing it from the point of a consumer; I am one. So are you. What other reason is there to address it differently? We all know Apple's practices; the entire post you stated was nothing other than obvious business practices that are implemented by many companies across the world. Nothing new.

If you go back and read the actual discussion me and another poster had, you'd see why I stated that.

I love it when people read one post, not the entire thread, then de-rail and start ranting about something I talked about. Go read the discussion we had. After that, maybe your posts will start making sense.

I KNOW they price things to make money. Everyone does. My point (which you obviously missed) was to address the market of people who are tech savvy and want more for their money.

Jesus

 

[ritmomundo]

I know I'm addressing it from the point of a consumer; I am one. So are you. What other reason is there to address it differently? We all know Apple's practices; the entire post you stated was nothing other than obvious business practices that are implemented by many companies across the world. Nothing new.

If you go back and read the actual discussion me and another poster had, you'd see why I stated that.

I love it when people read one post, not the entire thread, then de-rail and start ranting about something I talked about. Go read the discussion we had. After that, maybe your posts will start making sense.

I KNOW they price things to make money. Everyone does. My point (which you obviously missed) was to address the market of people who are tech savvy and want more for their money.

Jesus

Jeez... first of all, I did read the whole thread, and I gave my opinion. Then you gave yours and we had a discussion. I got your point, and I addressed it directly. But you probably didn't understand. I dunno why you took it all so personally. Chill out.

 

[Young Spade]

Jeez... first of all, I did read the whole thread, and I gave my opinion. Then you gave yours and we had a discussion. I got your point, and I addressed it directly. But you probably didn't understand. I dunno why you took it all so personally. Chill out.

*facepalm*

Yea... for some reason the name didn't register? I thought you were a random user posting on top of the conversation, hence my slight attack and accusation of not reading the posts.

In actuality you were the one I had the discussion with.

*sucks up pride*

My apologies

 

[ritmomundo]

*facepalm*

Yea... for some reason the name didn't register? I thought you were a random user posting on top of the conversation, hence my slight attack and accusation of not reading the posts.

In actuality you were the one I had the discussion with.

*sucks up pride*

My apologies

No worries. It happens to the best of us.