New Mac Pro 2015 Everything we know.

[goMac]

Here is a photo of the discrete Thunderbolt controller in the early 2011 MacBook Pro (from the ifixit.com teardown)Image[/url]

There's always a discrete controller with the processor. Haswell and Skylake have a discrete Thunderbolt controller as well, but it requires support on the chip...

Looking around for info on what exactly that relationship was with Sandy Bridge but coming up short so far...

 

[AidenShaw]

There's always a discrete controller with the processor. Haswell and Skylake have a discrete Thunderbolt controller as well, but it requires support on the chip...

Looking around for info on what exactly that relationship was with Sandy Bridge but coming up short so far...

Sometimes (almost always with Ethernet) that "discrete controller" is merely the PHY that passively matches the current/impedance/voltage/whatever needs of the physical layer with the embedded support chip.

You don't want that RJ45 or T-Bolt jack to be directly connected to the CPU chip. A little static electricity on the Cat-6 or TB cable could destroy the CPU without a PHY layer to isolate the physical from the logical. And almost certainly the CPU or southbridge pins don't have the voltage/current to drive a 100m run of Cat-6 - but the PHY does.

 

[mcarling]

The controller in the photo appears to be more than just a PHY. I believe the controller in the photo doesn't rely on the chipset for any support other than PCIe lanes.

 

[AidenShaw]

The controller in the photo appears to be more than just a PHY. I believe the controller in the photo doesn't rely on the chipset for any support other than PCIe lanes.

The photo is from a system without T-Bolt support in the chipset - it's a standalone T-Bolt controller on an early 2011 system.

My point is that even if the chipset supports an external protocol, there's usually some "glue logic" to protect the chipset from the outside, and to provide for the voltage/current needs of the outside interface. The presence/absence of extra chips isn't a distinguishing factor - it's the role of those chips.

ps: Please petition the OP to fix the title of this thread - "Haswell-E" is a Core-i7 Extreme part which will never be in a Mac Pro. It's absurd that a thread with the title "Mac Pro Haswell-E Everything we know" uses the name of a CPU that will *never* be in any Mac Pro. The relevant Haswell Xeons are "Haswell-EP".

 

[Reticuli]

All of this speculation about TB3 and higher processor power was kinda making me regret pulling the trigger on that quad core nmp this week
You gotta buy in some time though! I'd imagine it'll be a while before I need anything above 4k anyway

 

[bxs]

I think the wait for the next MP6,1 upgrade is going to be at least 12 months or even 24 months.

I just don't see Apple spending time and money revamping the MP6,1 until the newer technologies are thoroughly tested.

How many current MP6,1 does Apple need to sell to break even on their R&D and the new USA-located MP6,1 factory ? I bet that has not been reached yet.

1) CPU speeds are not improving that much these days.
2) Thunderbolt-2 is by and large sufficient for supporting things today and for another 12 months without trouble.
3) Power consumption/efficiency is already very very low.
4) DDR4 needs to reach maturity and cost needs to come down.
5) Larger SSDs .... not going to happen... there's little need for this IMO... maybe faster.
6) Dual GPUs still need to be fully utilized by the Applications.

What I'd like to see is a built-in 10GbE port for 10x better file sharing.

I think if you're waiting for a newer MP6,1 you will be waiting for 12 to 24 months.

 

[AidenShaw]

I think the wait for the next MP6,1 upgrade is going to be at least 12 months or even 24 months.

I just don't see Apple spending time and money revamping the MP6,1 until the newer technologies are thoroughly tested.

I've been thoroughly testing the E5-x6xxv3 chips in my HPs for quite some time. The CPUs are rock solid.

How many current MP6,1 does Apple need to sell to break even on their R&D and the new USA-located MP6,1 factory ? I bet that has not been reached yet.

I'll bet that it has already been reached, due to:

• Apple didn't build these factories - their Asian contract builders did.
• Much of the R&D for the MP6,1 can be re-used for the MP6,2. Much of the engineering was for thermal management, which is the same. A minor change to the circular motherboard for the new C610 controller, and a new socket on the CPU daughtercard.

What I'd like to see is a built-in 10GbE port for 10x better file sharing.

+2^8

It's an amazing fail that the MP6,1 used last generation networking on a sealed box without the possibility of upgrades. My Dell workstations have 1GbE on the mobo, and dual-port 10GbE cards in a PCIe slot. My newest servers are getting 40GbE ports.

Apple was ahead of the curve for 1GbE adoption, and has completely dropped the ball on 10GbE (and 40GbE and 100GbE).

 

[EdDuPlessis]

The rumours are Apple are trying to engineer AMD's new 20nm GPUs to run at 130w TDP each. Storage wise the Samsung SM951 is rumoured to be the new blade and some say that is confirmed. USB 3.1 too.

 

[iSee]

I've been thoroughly testing the E5-x6xxv3 chips in my HPs for quite some time. The CPUs are rock solid.




I'll bet that it has already been reached, due to:

• Apple didn't build these factories - their Asian contract builders did.
• Much of the R&D for the MP6,1 can be re-used for the MP6,2. Much of the engineering was for thermal management, which is the same. A minor change to the circular motherboard for the new C610 controller, and a new socket on the CPU daughtercard.

+2^8

It's an amazing fail that the MP6,1 used last generation networking on a sealed box without the possibility of upgrades. My Dell workstations have 1GbE on the mobo, and dual-port 10GbE cards in a PCIe slot. My newest servers are getting 40GbE ports.

Apple was ahead of the curve for 1GbE adoption, and has completely dropped the ball on 10GbE (and 40GbE and 100GbE).

I thought 10 GbE was available to new Mac Pros via thunderbolt, right? (Pricey, of course.) To some degree, though, it doesn't really matter. The important thing is that there's a way to get data into and out of the box at high rates, and there is -- thunderbolt. It's down to details after that. (Not to mention, if you actually have a workflow that saturates a 10+ Gbps connection with any frequency, we're actually talking about system in which the workstation is just a part.)

 

[AidenShaw]

I thought 10 GbE was available to new Mac Pros via thunderbolt, right? (Pricey, of course.) To some degree, though, it doesn't really matter. The important thing is that there's a way to get data into and out of the box at high rates, and there is -- thunderbolt. It's down to details after that. (Not to mention, if you actually have a workflow that saturates a 10+ Gbps connection with any frequency, we're actually talking about system in which the workstation is just a part.)

You mean "saturates a 1 Gbps connection", right?

As soon as the 1 GbE hits the limit is when the 10GbE link becomes useful.

...and most spinning hard drives can saturate a 1 GbE link.

 

[goMac]

The rumours are Apple are trying to engineer AMD's new 20nm GPUs to run at 130w TDP each. Storage wise the Samsung SM951 is rumoured to be the new blade and some say that is confirmed. USB 3.1 too.

That would be a decent SSD upgrade, and makes sense. The SM951 is the successor to what's in the Mac Pro now. I wonder if rev a nMPs will be able to take the same upgrade as well.

The GPU part doesn't so much. That TDP is well below what the nMP can handle. It would make more sense to take the TDP gains of moving to a 20nm process and just keep them, and not try to down clock more. Because to get down to 130w, unless these new GPUs are crazy efficient beyond what I've heard, will require down clocking.

 

[Tucom]

You mean "saturates a 1 Gbps connection", right?

As soon as the 1 GbE hits the limit is when the 10GbE link becomes useful.

...and most spinning hard drives can saturate a 1 GbE link.

I believe he's referring to the Thunderbolt connection, which is 20Gbps. If TB2 can provide that throughput, though would be nice, wouldn't having a faster link elsewhere be more or less irrelevant/non issue?

 

[wallysb01]

I thought 10 GbE was available to new Mac Pros via thunderbolt, right? (Pricey, of course.) To some degree, though, it doesn't really matter. The important thing is that there's a way to get data into and out of the box at high rates, and there is -- thunderbolt. It's down to details after that. (Not to mention, if you actually have a workflow that saturates a 10+ Gbps connection with any frequency, we're actually talking about system in which the workstation is just a part.)

Its not exactly just details. People that already have storage solutions on hand that are connected via 10GbE to older workstations are not going to super happy to swallow around $1K just to replicate that connectivity when other workstations come with it built in (granted most still don't, but ya know, some do and the MacPro is supposed to compete into the relatively high price ranges where 10GbE becomes more common).

 

[beaker7]

Title of thread should be "Things that could technically be included if Apple does decide to refresh the Mac Pro but we have no idea in reality."

 

[iSee]

I believe he's referring to the Thunderbolt connection, which is 10Gbps. If TB2 can provide that throughput, though would be nice, wouldn't having a faster link elsewhere be more or less irrelevant/non issue?

You mean "saturates a 1 Gbps connection", right?

As soon as the 1 GbE hits the limit is when the 10GbE link becomes useful.

...and most spinning hard drives can saturate a 1 GbE link.

Yeah, sorry: I was actually thinking about your reference to 40- and 100 GbE but realize it's not even remotely clear.

Its not exactly just details. People that already have storage solutions on hand that are connected via 10GbE to older workstations are not going to super happy to swallow around $1K just to replicate that connectivity when other workstations come with it built in (granted most still don't, but ya know, some do and the MacPro is supposed to compete into the relatively high price ranges where 10GbE becomes more common).

That's actually what I mean by details. My point is, if you're building a system where you want to move data on and off a workstation at high rates, the nMP is on the table -- 10 gbps ethernet won't make it or break it.

Of course, if you also need it to fit into an existing 10 GbE solution and don't need Mac OS X then you may very well find another path that's cheaper. I don't mean to trivialize the cost.

 

[Tucom]

I believe he's referring to the Thunderbolt connection, which is 20Gbps. If TB2 can provide that throughput, though would be nice, wouldn't having a faster link elsewhere be more or less irrelevant/non issue?

I originally wrote TB2 was "10Gbps" - should have been 20Gbps. Now corrected.