New Mac Pro cpu: Is it soldered or replaceable

[kwikdeth]

Apple is going with "tick" CPU processor (v2) that is more process shrink than new micro-architecture . The chipset is exactly the same. So unlikely latent bugs laying around.

Thunderbolt 2 is a bit bleeding edge in terms of traffic management and QoS implementation, but it is also version 2. It is the 3rd generation TB controller.

The W7000-W9000 FirePro cards the Apple versions are dervived from hit the market in June 2012. Again bugs, serious glitches, problems are all likely quite documented at this point.

The USB 3.0 discrete controller is likely 2nd (or 3rd) generation.


The thermal management system is new but picking direct data for the feedback loop likely will work quite well. "Clever" indirect approach vs. straight measure RPMs :

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7501/amd-changes-290-series-fan-algorithms


It isn't like Apple "rushed" this product to market. It is version 1 so there are probably a couple of things that got overlooked. The design seems a little bit ahead of the technology ( too PCIe v2 and Thunderbolt 2 was targeted for 2014 ). But not too far from other version 1 Macs that got a major upgrade.

i get where you're coming from but what im speaking of in terms of "rev 1 technologies" has to do with Apple's design, not the tecnologies used within. Apple has a long track record of having quirky Rev 1 designs that quickly get abandoned... just look at 1st gen Mac Pro users who basically got locked out of pretty much everything... 64 bit processing, OS support for newer releases, compatible graphics card upgrades... or the 1st gen iPad owners getting locked out of iOS after only one major OS update, despite 3GS getting upgraded with lesser hardware.

and thank you for the clarification on the network hardware, i was not fully sure on how the 602 implemented networking stack.

 

[thekev]

Apple has a long track record of having quirky Rev 1 designs that quickly get abandoned... just look at 1st gen Mac Pro users who basically got locked out of pretty much everything... 64 bit processing, OS support for newer releases, compatible graphics card upgrades... or the 1st gen iPad owners getting locked out of iOS after only one major OS update, despite 3GS getting upgraded with lesser hardware. .

You're basically agreeing with him, just relegating it more to software and drivers? The second generation could offer quite a bit more. Consider that the most likely gpu hardware relative to the posted specs is already past the midway point in its generation. Haswell EP seems to drop 4 core variants in favor of 6 standard. It's just that it might be the second half of 2015 before you see a nMP v2, or perhaps even later.

 

[kwikdeth]

You're basically agreeing with him, just relegating it more to software and drivers? The second generation could offer quite a bit more. Consider that the most likely gpu hardware relative to the posted specs is already past the midway point in its generation. Haswell EP seems to drop 4 core variants in favor of 6 standard. It's just that it might be the second half of 2015 before you see a nMP v2, or perhaps even later.

no, those "software and driver" limitations have to do with the hardware selection apple made. they used a 32-bit processor in the 1st gen mac pro which locked them out of Lion, they did something weird with the PCIe slots so a lot of PCIe 2.0 graphics cards straight wont work in them, etc. the software limitations come from apple's hardware selections.

the fact that apple has so far been extremely tight on technical details leaves me to suspect people are going to end up disappointed in the end. the "trash can" nickname may end up being more accurate than people think (not a knock on the form factor, just a knock on Rev 1)

but yeah, 2nd gen new mac pro will likely kick ass. one thing i can say about them is they learn from their mistakes in hardware.

 

[thekev]

no, those "software and driver" limitations have to do with the hardware selection apple made. they used a 32-bit processor in the 1st gen mac pro which locked them out of Lion, they did something weird with the PCIe slots so a lot of PCIe 2.0 graphics cards straight wont work in them, etc. the software limitations come from apple's hardware selections.

The PCI slots were dynamically allocated electrically if I recall correctly. At least the first two had a higher number of mechanical lanes. Anyway the other point is false. The first generation mac pro processors were 64 bit. Apple just never released 64 bit EFI for those systems. There are Windows systems with those same cpus that run 64 bit Windows 7.

I don't actually disagree with you regarding first generation Apple hardware not living up to its potential.

 

[d-m-a-x]

Unless I am wrong, seems like the cpu is held in by a few allen screws. Looks nice and square like a normal xeon

 

[deconstruct60]

no, those "software and driver" limitations have to do with the hardware selection apple made. they used a 32-bit processor in the 1st gen mac pro which locked them out of Lion,

First, Mac Pro 2006-2007 where not locked out of Lion.

http://support.apple.com/kb/SP629

Locked out of Mountain Lion. Yes.

".. Mac Pro (Early 2008 or newer) ..."
http://support.apple.com/kb/SP654

Second, being "locked out" of software 6 years into the future is hardly a "v1.0" problem. If the problem doesn't surface for 6 years ( 3 years after the support contracts expire ) it isn't a "v1" problem.


The 2014-15 Mac Pro ( likely based on E5 v3) will probably get a somewhat long support window because the E5 v4 version going to be more alike. (Those are an Intel tick-tock pair which tend to share chipset and other constraints at the Xeon E5 product level). This one is going to be on a short leash because E5 v2 is the second half ( tick) and is a dead end as far as board/chipset/firmware goes.


The initial Mac Pros got hung up on EFI32 primarily because Intel's processor line up wasn't 64bit across the board and Apple was on a "transition in less than 12 months" deadline. Mac OS X had to "backslide" back into lots of new 32bit work ( having just gone 64bit on PPC). It had far more to do with dumping the PPC as fast possible and much less to do with "v1.0" aspects. The Mac Pro had a 64bit chip but a couple other Macs didn't. Since, this was Apple initial jump into EFI space on a very tight deadline, one EFI32 had to be adapted for the whole line.

The huge difference is "tight deadline". No way , no how can anyone point this new Mac Pro being on some sort of tight deadline. Apple transitioned their entire Mac line up from PPC to Intel in 6 less months. then the period between leaked "something in later in 2013" and arrival for the Mac Pro. What will be extremely dubious about this box is if there are gobs of v1.0 hardware/firmware quirks given the extremely protracted time it took them to do something. Some driver/software bugs... sure. Heck it is running 10.9.1 ...... 10.9 probably isn't going rock solid till 10.9.3 , .4 or .5 . [ Apple should be releasing Mac Pros away initial OS X rollout instability. revenue critical production environment tend not to move to "fresh out of the gate" OS releases. ]

the fact that apple has so far been extremely tight on technical details leaves me to suspect people are going to end up disappointed in the end.

They've been tight with all details. Pre-announcing even this much is highly unusual. If they were abnormally quiet that would be far more significant. Quiet on details is Apple normal.

Of the the released information there are two aspects that are bit off. One is the 450W contiuous power thing. 12 cores and dual 700s are bit questionable with a 450W cap. The second, is how 'smart' their thermal power management firmware is. They have several different major heat sources and one fan. How the feedback loops converge and the right clues to adjust get fed back to the different sources is something that could be screwed up. I don't have alot of faith in Apple doing deep, exhaustive real world testing under real world conditions when their bury their "top secret" products in "top secret labs" that aren't the real world.

The upside with this extended dragged out launch is that they should have gotten some feedback from beta testers and would have time to use that to fix the initial set of firmware/software glitches.

the "trash can" nickname may end up being more accurate than people think (not a knock on the form factor, just a knock on Rev 1)

The folks who latched onto the "trash can" nickname aren't going to let go. That has very little to do with how well the Mac Pro does or doesn't work since they slapped it on it without having seen it do anything. It isn't motivated on how it works. It is just as likely going to go the way of the iPad tampon references...

but yeah, 2nd gen new mac pro will likely kick ass. one thing i can say about them is they learn from their mistakes in hardware.

$/performance the 2nd gen Mac Pro probably will be better. Likely will have more x86 cores ( and may have more GPGPUs cores ). The software will better aligned (although that will also incrementally work better on 1st gen also).

If Apple's dynamic clocking , shared thermal core solution wasn't based on extensive empirical data then it probably won't be till generation 3 that they truly fix that.

 

[MattDSLR]

it looks replaceable