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External this, external that, no need for new GPUs. Don't make excuses. Just say what the benefits and down sides are instead of acting like a zany Jehovah Witness. The down sides are your computer is frozen in time and the only way around that is to make a mess.

Hmmmm.... curious to know if in fact you own and use the MP6,1. It seems to me you are basing your assessments on something you don't actually use on a daily basis.

"Excuses"... Not so. No mess involved. If current MP6,1 not good enough then a new/better one can be purchased down the road.

I find absolutely no down sides in the new MP6,1 design.

However, I will say one minor issue is the fact that the Thunderbolt connectors can too easily dislodge when moving the black cylinder. This aspect can be undetected until the device you require access to isn't found mounted. :)

Talking about cable mess... I have three cables + power cord running out the back of our office MP6,1.

1) one for an LG display
2) one for client viewing TV
3) one TB-2 for connecting to file server in back room
4) one (occasionally) needed for a wired keyboard and mouse... but typical BT devices are in use.
 
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That is pathetic IMO.

The Alu stock tower supports what SATA II and SATA III inside using spinners and SSDs along with 1 or 2 SuperDrives. Yes you can RAID-0 4 drives for maybe 500 to 600 MBytes/sec at best. Then you will need a boot device which I suppose could be a PCIe SSD, a backup disk and a Time Machine disk.

Don't try and tell me you don't have a tangle of cables hanging out the back of your Alu tower, because you do.

Oh.... and the power use of that tower is enough to heat a small room in the dead of winter and runs up your electric bill in a hurry or if you have that for free your using up a valuable earth resource compared to the MP6,1.

Do you have any idea what the cost and waste is for having all that Alu casing for the tower ?

Try lugging your big ole tower to a gig someday.

I can easily show you a pic like this if you like... :eek:

In order to have the same storage and drives I have now would require an external DVD, and external Blu-Ray, and then something to hold my 4 other drives. Yes, I have a PCI card with two SSD drives (a 1tb and a 512gb) internal besides having a 3gb and two 1gb drives as RAID 0 (again all internal) Currently I have ONE power cable, speaker cable, two ethernet cables, a usb cable and the video cable (usb and video to my monitor which is a usb hub as well) out of the back of my tower neatly under my desk (all of which would be required with a nMP).

You don't think those external devices that I would require would use any power, each having it's own fan for increased noise etc, and the cost of materials for those?? And you also realize they cost additonal money for something that wasn't needed before, right? Besides having them internal I can use the Mac's power management to reduce usage when the system is idle - something you can't necessarily do well with most external devices.

Again if you don't need all that storage or the other peripherals or don't mind having to plug in a bunch of other devices to the system and wall, then the nMP is great. It just isn't for me. I won't even get into the cost difference of what it cost to build out my cMP vs. what the equivalent cost for the nMP would have been.
 
I've had mine since Feb, and it's been awesome. I upgraded from a MP 5.1. I really like the small form factor and it's super quiet. And it never throttles down because of "over heating" like a lot of users say happen with their iMacs and MBPs. It's been fast and rock solid.

By reading the comments (throughout the MP sub-forum), it's easy to get the impression that most MP users are unhappy with the new design, but it's really a very small, but very vocal, group of users who feel that way. They tend to chase out the typical MP users with their relentless criticisms of the nMP.

In this case, most of the frustrations come down to not being able to upgrade one internal component at a time, or having to spend more money than they want to. What those users don't seem to fully appreciate is that it's a very tiny percentage of Mac users who really want to do internal upgrades... most will simply buy a new Mac when they outgrow their old one. It generally makes more practical sense anyway.

For most users who need a MP, the cost of getting a new Mac every 2-3 years isn't a big deal. Those who complain about the cost either aren't making money from having a MP, or are stuck on the principal of it. Also, I hate to play this card, but a number of those vocal users have a vested interest in keeping the classic Mac Pro internal upgrades business going. ;)
 
A year from release, my plans have shifted from being in love with my cMP and intending to keep on that path for a long time to moving towards a higher-spec'd computational server (definitely not from Apple) paired with a Macbook Pro.
 
Absolutely love mine still. Ability to encode multiple file types in Compressor while I simultaneously edit a separate video and have Netflix going in the background, and still have the thing be whisper quiet, is tops for me.

I will say that it sometimes feels strange using it for simpler tasks (web browsing, just Netflix, etc.)-- like taking a Corvette to check the mail.
 
In order to have the same storage and drives I have now would require an external DVD, and external Blu-Ray, and then something to hold my 4 other drives. Yes, I have a PCI card with two SSD drives (a 1tb and a 512gb) internal besides having a 3gb and two 1gb drives as RAID 0 (again all internal) Currently I have ONE power cable, speaker cable, two ethernet cables, a usb cable and the video cable (usb and video to my monitor which is a usb hub as well) out of the back of my tower neatly under my desk (all of which would be required with a nMP).

You don't think those external devices that I would require would use any power, each having it's own fan for increased noise etc, and the cost of materials for those?? And you also realize they cost additonal money for something that wasn't needed before, right? Besides having them internal I can use the Mac's power management to reduce usage when the system is idle - something you can't necessarily do well with most external devices.

Again if you don't need all that storage or the other peripherals or don't mind having to plug in a bunch of other devices to the system and wall, then the nMP is great. It just isn't for me. I won't even get into the cost difference of what it cost to build out my cMP vs. what the equivalent cost for the nMP would have been.

1) Agree on #cables for old and new MPs.
2) External devices use little electrical power and the older MP has to supply the same level of electrical power, so that's a wash IMO.
3) Fan noise of external drives vs. 5 odd fans in the older MP... give me a break please.
4) Many/most decent external drives will idle when not in use. Plus, if they don't then return them and get ones that do.
5) I agree, the new MP6,1 externals will/do require extra wall and/or power strips.
6) When you build out your cMP don't forget to add its initial cost to all the extra goodies you buy for upgrading it. A decent 12-core MP5,1 was close to or above the $6,000 mark, and that was with a measly amount of RAM and limited internal spinner storage.

I really cannot understand the reasoning some people have about having to hang external storage on the new MP6,1. You can buy decent TB-1 LaCie 4/6/8TB RAID-0 drive enclosures that are less than 3 years old and some only 1 year old for really good prices these days on eBay and Craigslist. These brands also carry remaining warranty from LaCie. You can buy empty enclosures and use your old spinners as well if you like... but they maybe SATA II only... :eek:
 
I'll have to remind to everyone here that the thread's title is "New Mac Pro, One Year Later".

I assume it is addressed to nMP owners and their experience so far, regarding the new machine. Bashing posts from deprecated oMP owners is just plain trolling.
 
Form factor is an important factor for me given that I use my computer on the dining table in our livingroom - much to my wife's displeasure. An omp behemoth tower just wouldn't be workable for me.

Energy efficiency is also a big deal too given that we already spend a fortune on electricity. The nmp strikes that balance of energy efficiency, form factor and power for me, while still being relatively upgradeable and thermally stable compared to an imac for example.
 
Still love this image...

picture.php
 
Let's came back to the real life setup, like this..
http://cdn.osxdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/lots-of-macs.jpeg
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3739/9042822832_6102524236_b.jpg
http://s84.photobucket.com/user/blaccteezy/media/newstudio.jpg.html
http://www.kisttv.com/storage/Kistv studio small 4jpg.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1307987601553

or this..
http://cdn.osxdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/music-producer-mac-pro-desk-setup.jpg
http://preview.soundlearningsolutions.com/preview/macpro_studio.JPG
http://gauchopictures.com/macpro.jpg
http://cdn.osxdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/mac-pro-with-2-thunderbolt-displays-desk.jpg
http://forum.vrayforc4d.com/index.php?attachments/14902/

Seems to me that the 99% of the disappointed people are the one who don't own a nMP, I've to agree with Antonis comment.
As for myself, I own both new model, old models and several PC too. I choose new machine hands down. The only downside to me is the limited multithreaded performance(exactly like the old machine). Seems the only arguments here is the upgradability of the old model but in years of professional usage I've never upgraded anything beyond RAM and eventually damaged parts. When a machine gets old is far easier to buy a new one instead of buy new CPU, new disks, new GPU, new usb cards, PSU and so on.
 
Let's came back to the real life setup, like this..
http://cdn.osxdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/lots-of-macs.jpeg
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3739/9042822832_6102524236_b.jpg
http://s84.photobucket.com/user/blaccteezy/media/newstudio.jpg.html
http://www.kisttv.com/storage/Kistv studio small 4jpg.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1307987601553

or this..
http://cdn.osxdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/music-producer-mac-pro-desk-setup.jpg
http://preview.soundlearningsolutions.com/preview/macpro_studio.JPG
http://gauchopictures.com/macpro.jpg
http://cdn.osxdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/mac-pro-with-2-thunderbolt-displays-desk.jpg
http://forum.vrayforc4d.com/index.php?attachments/14902/

Seems to me that the 99% of the disappointed people are the one who don't own a nMP, I've to agree with Antonis comment.
As for myself, I own both new model, old models and several PC too. I choose new machine hands down. The only downside to me is the limited multithreaded performance(exactly like the old machine). Seems the only arguments here is the upgradability of the old model but in years of professional usage I've never upgraded anything beyond RAM and eventually damaged parts. When a machine gets old is far easier to buy a new one instead of buy new CPU, new disks, new GPU, new usb cards, PSU and so on.

Well 99% of people wouldn't own a Trash Can if they were disappointed with the design/upgrade options would they.

Buying a new machine is easier than buying a new GPU? Seriously? You've gone from a 1000W PSU to a 450W PSU. There is a reason it has 1 CPU and 2 underclocked GPU's.

It may be fine now, but in 2 years when things move on, it'll show its age far quicker than the older tower design ever has.

I am sure there are 1000's of new MacPro owners who are currently very happy. There are also 1000's of people that will never buy it. Apple created a Marmite computer. There is no middle ground with it.
 
@G4DP
So you think that upgrading a GPU will get you a brand new machine?
In my experience when your GPU will get old, your CPU will get old too and you'll have to buy new one, your disks will become slower compared to modern standard and you have to upgrade that one too, new externals will require new connectivity and you will end up buying also usb cards, ecc. All components will shows their age and fall apart sooner or later and replacing all of them is not an option for me.
 
I think there's a distinction between professional and enthusiast which is worth drawing.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but I wouldn't imagine that professionals need to be on the bleeding edge of every CPU and GPU update. Working with 4k video is working with 4k video - and until the next big standard comes along the performance currently afforded by the nmp is going to be exactly is it always has been. In 2-3 years time if a new standard comes along which the company wants to adopt, they consider upgrading to a new iteration. For businesses this is probably an easier route than supporting modified hardware.

Enthusiasts on the other hand tend to just upgrade for the sake of it, to boast about having the best available specs.

nmp doesn't appear to be an enthusiast machine. I don't believe it was ever intended to be.

I'm not saying lack of upgradability isn't an issue with the machine, I'm just saying that it probably doesn't apply to the intended market segment of the machine as much as the enthusiasts of this board would like to imply.
 
That's why Apple should have some out with several editions of the Mac Pro instead of what they have done.

Mac Pro Producer - a bigger machine for multimedia types who want the GPUs and more than one SSD
Mac Pro Developer - for coders and designers who just don't need two GPUS but would like lots of disk space
Mac Pro Server - for people who want to run a server and need dual CPU, an enterprise level SSD RAID, and don't need a discrete GPU at all
 
The Alu stock tower supports what SATA II and SATA III inside using spinners and SSDs along with 1 or 2 SuperDrives. Yes you can RAID-0 4 drives for maybe 500 to 600 MBytes/sec at best. Then you will need a boot device which I suppose could be a PCIe SSD, a backup disk and a Time Machine disk.
These are limitations because Apple failed to update it with the newer technology. There was nothing preventing Apple from providing faster I/O in the old chassis...just their unwillingness to do so.

As for power consumption / noise...I run my 2010 cMP 24/7 and didn't observe any change in my electric bill.
 
In this case, most of the frustrations come down to not being able to upgrade one internal component at a time, or having to spend more money than they want to. What those users don't seem to fully appreciate is that it's a very tiny percentage of Mac users who really want to do internal upgrades... most will simply buy a new Mac when they outgrow their old one. It generally makes more practical sense anyway.
The ability to upgrade components is not atypical of people who use a Mac Pro. Case in point: My brother has a cMP 3,1. He just upgraded his video card to a much more capable one than he has been using for the past few years. Total cost: $95.

Along with the ability to upgrade components is what seems to have started this latest discussion: A tangle of wires for external devices. The benefits of the nMP go out the window as soon as you start adding external devices. Additional space, power, noise, and heat negate the small form factor of the nMP.

----------

I really cannot understand the reasoning some people have about having to hang external storage on the new MP6,1. You can buy decent TB-1 LaCie 4/6/8TB RAID-0 drive enclosures that are less than 3 years old and some only 1 year old for really good prices these days on eBay and Craigslist. These brands also carry remaining warranty from LaCie. You can buy empty enclosures and use your old spinners as well if you like... but they maybe SATA II only... :eek:

Perhaps because it goes against the sleek design Apple and the nMP advocates champion as a benefit to the nMP?

----------

@G4DP
So you think that upgrading a GPU will get you a brand new machine?
In my experience when your GPU will get old, your CPU will get old too and you'll have to buy new one, your disks will become slower compared to modern standard and you have to upgrade that one too, new externals will require new connectivity and you will end up buying also usb cards, ecc. All components will shows their age and fall apart sooner or later and replacing all of them is not an option for me.
I did not get that impression from his posts. With that said my brother just upgraded his 3,1 with a new graphics card for $95 (GeForce GTX660 Overclocked). It's an older card but faster than his previous card. So for $95 he got a nice upgrade that took all of two minutes to perform. All using a standard PCIe graphics card.

----------

Correct me if I'm wrong here but I wouldn't imagine that professionals need to be on the bleeding edge of every CPU and GPU update. Working with 4k video is working with 4k video - and until the next big standard comes along the performance currently afforded by the nmp is going to be exactly is it always has been. In 2-3 years time if a new standard comes along which the company wants to adopt, they consider upgrading to a new iteration. For businesses this is probably an easier route than supporting modified hardware.
I disagree. Unless the task you're working on would not benefit from additional speed it doesn't matter if you're processing the same standard over time. With speed increases you'll be processing the same standard faster. So instead of taking 20 hours to perform a task a faster computer will do it in 10 hours. In another few years a faster computer will perform the same task in 3 hours. Same standard, big benefit.
 
For some people upgrading the GPU did in fact give them the performance of a new machine if their work was GPU accelerated by such apps like iRay, MentalRay or Octane Render.
 
I disagree. Unless the task you're working on would not benefit from additional speed it doesn't matter if you're processing the same standard over time. With speed increases you'll be processing the same standard faster. So instead of taking 20 hours to perform a task a faster computer will do it in 10 hours. In another few years a faster computer will perform the same task in 3 hours. Same standard, big benefit.

I wasn't saying upgrading has no benefit, only that staying on the same nmp would not cause the work to get any slower (all other things being equal)

This seems a little bit like a truism, but it has a purpose. New kit comes out almost weekly, you could chase every increment if you wanted - but the main question is - do professionals (not enthusiasts!) do this in practice - and if so - how frequently?

Do pro users really chase those incremental performance boosts often enough that upgrades would be substantially better than replacement?

In my company we need to replace the computers every 2/3 years anyway to ensure everything is kept in warranty
 
@G4DP
So you think that upgrading a GPU will get you a brand new machine?
In my experience when your GPU will get old, your CPU will get old too and you'll have to buy new one, your disks will become slower compared to modern standard and you have to upgrade that one too, new externals will require new connectivity and you will end up buying also usb cards, ecc. All components will shows their age and fall apart sooner or later and replacing all of them is not an option for me.

Did I say it would give you a new machine? The poster I quoted stated it was easier to BUY a new machine than a BUY a new GPU. Which is BS of the highest order.

CPU get old? Possibly. The machine is still faster than 90% of the computers sold today. Disks? Really, that's why the old machines can take multiple - YES MULTIPLE - SSD's internally, not just ONE. Can choose between multiple - OH LOOK MULTIPLE - PCI cards or GPU's.
 
I made a tally sheet. I counted "reviews" from those who say they own and use the nMP and those who don't. Unsurprisingly those who do NOT own the computer are the biggest complainers my far. Those who actually own and use the computer seem to like the nMP.

My opinion: I think inside a computer is not the best place to keep data.

The problem is that people move around. They might be a job site, their office or at home but their data can be at only one of those places. You also have the problem of backup and security of that data. So I think Apple is doing the right thing to separate data and computer. There is little reason to place very large storage inside a computer except in the odd-case the the user only owns and uses one computer an NEVER moves and never shares the data.


People who were introduced to computers by desktop PCs are used to having the dat contained in one system. and think "well of course I can't get to that old memail from last month - it is one my other computer."

I started with computers before the IBM PC was introduced, before The Apple II. and I got spoiled. I expected my data to follow me, to be able to sit in from of any open terminal in the building, login and have everything right there. This was the norm for a decade before we started using less capable machines in th early 1980's Of course these little PCs allowed more people to have access to competing because they lowered the cost but they were also VERY primitive.

You have to remember the UNIX was born in late 1969 and by the mid 70's we had an OS that worked like Mac OS X in terms of connectivity and data kept in data centers. Then one day Steve Jobs put this old BSD Unix software inside the Next Cube. What we are doing is slowly getting back to what computing professionals had 30 years ago.
 
I wasn't saying upgrading has no benefit, only that staying on the same nmp would not cause the work to get any slower (all other things being equal)

In a way they can due to ever increasing project sizes. What I find ironic about the nMP is its emphasis on GPU power yet they cannot be upgraded (at least at the moment)...something easily done in the cMP.

----------

Never said I want people to say something specific I'd like to hear. Please don't twist my post. But this is not another discussion about "oMP vs nMP", so it's not normal for oMP owners to jump in and start the usual whining (again, I'll have to point towards the thread's title, it's crystal clear). I'd expect this thread to be experiences from nMP owners (negatives and positives) one year after the machine's release.

I never understood this line of thinking. If a threads discussion goes in a particular direction then I see no problem with it. It's what people want to discuss. And isn't that why we're all here? To discuss?
 
I made a tally sheet. I counted "reviews" from those who say they own and use the nMP and those who don't. Unsurprisingly those who do NOT own the computer are the biggest complainers my far. Those who actually own and use the computer seem to like the nMP.

Breaking news...people who buy Fords like Fords. Those who buy Chevys like Chevys. People buy what they like. What you're not seeing is a number of Mac Pro buyers who are no longer in the market for a Mac Pro because of the changes. IMO that is a more interesting number.

Likewise I tire of hearing nMP owns dismiss the genuine criticisms of the nMP. I have seen this throughout the decades when it comes to Apple and their offerings. Mac users are too quick to dismiss legitimate criticisms of Apple's product line. Before it was PC users criticisms. Now it's nMP versus cMP Mac users.

Furthermore I am truly amazed at how many nMP owners now value size / noise when it didn't seem to be a problem prior to the arrival of the nMP. Now these two things are must haves and actual benefits, such as PCIe slots, internal drive expansion, etc, are now relegated to also ran status.

The MP is a pro system. Removing pro features to make it smaller and quieter is, IMO, foolish. Apple has made it even more of a niche product than before with no, IMO, tangible benefit.

But that's the way of Apple. Their products either suite you or they don't. That doesn't mean people can't be upset / disappointed with their direction. Especially when the alternative is to switch to an entirely new platform.
 
One year ago today, the new Mac Pro hit the market. I thought this might make a good occasion to reflect.

For those that bought one, how do you feel a year after it came out? For those who didn't buy one for some reason, have your feelings changed at all now that you've had a year to get used to the idea of the new model being for sale? Have your questions and concerns been satisfied? Do you plan on buying a new Mac Pro in the future or have you abandoned the Mac Pro line for good?

We have enough topics speculating about future versions, so let's keep that talk to those topics. Looking simply at the transition from a large multi-CPU box with lots of spinning disks and PCI slots to a small multi-GPU cylinder with a single SSD and no PCI slots, do you feel that Apple is on the right track, the wrong track, or is one year later still not enough time to really know?

You wrote
For those that bought one, how do you feel a year after it came out?


Our office purchased a maxed out 12-core MP6,1 Dec 2013 (1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, Dual D700s). It was received early Feb 2014. We also purchased an LG 34UM95 34" display to attach to the new MP6,1. We also bought several older/used LaCie TB-1 RAID-0 drives; 4TB, 4TB, 6TB and 8TB models. We already had a 5-bay MacGurus eSATA Port Multiplier tower with 5x 2TB drives. For extra displays we used an older 20" ACD and a 46" Sony TV for client viewing etc. To run the Burly eSATA tower we had to buy a Sonnet adapter and EXPRESS34 card and used it as the last in the LaCie drive daisy chain.

The whole configuration came up without any issues at all. The Burly eSATA drives were the slowest in the i/o group and gave about 120 MBytes/sec per 2TB drive. All the LaCie drives gave around 350 MBytes/sec, and of course the internal 1TB SSD gave around 950 MBytes/sec. The 64GB RAM meant we had plenty of space for the kernel to hold frequently used data in its memory-based file cache, giving us access to data many times faster than hauling it off the LaCie disks all the time.

We have now been using this rig for close to 12 months and have gone from using Mavericks to using the latest Yosemite OS.

The primary application suite used has been Adobe software.

We split the 1TB SSD into two partitions with one for the OS and applications and the other as cache for After Effects. This was very beneficial for AE.

We use Time Machine for backups and the Burly eSATA box for archiving project data.

The MP6,1 sits on a small height table alongside the TV and a desk with the LG and 20" ACD.

All the disks are kept inside a locker under the desk and out of sight.

There are no cables to be seen except for ones connecting to the desktop LG and 20" ACD, as well as wired keyboard and mouse. The office setup with the MP6,1 is very clean looking.

Having the disks located in a locker under the desk means very little disk and fan noises creep into the office workplace area. The MP6,1 itself simply makes no discernible noise for us. We are careful not to place paper or magazines on top of the MP6,1 for obvious reasons. :)

The locker under the desk we use to house all of the disk units used to hold our older 12-core MP5,1 and the heat from it was at times very excessive. That issue is no longer a problem for us as the disks generate little heat compared to the MP5,1. Because the MP5,1 was so large it used up all the space in the locker and many of our external disks were scattered about the room and some even on the desktop. Their noise was not enjoyed at all.

We have been extremely happy with our MP6,1 purchased almost 12 months ago. The LaCie drives have performed without issues and of course can be upgraded to use 4TB or 6TB disks to meet future requirements. The need for TB-2 enclosures has not been necessary for us at this time. The LaCie purchases were very cost effective for us.

The MP6,1 Geekbench 3 (64-bit, multi core) score is at around 32,000. The Geekbench 3 (64-bit multi core) score for our older MP5,1 12-core 2.93 GHz X5670, 960GB SSD, Sapphire HD 7950 is at around 30,000. Our investment for the MP5,1 with the added goodies over stock was around $9,000. The MP6,1 as configured along with the LaCie drives was at around $10,000. We actually have two maxed out MP5,1s in the office. Our freelancers will always wish they can use the MP6,1 even though the MP5,1s aren't slow by any means. The MP6,1 just gets the work done quicker without any fuss. The MP5,1s will stall at times for unknown reasons and occasionally will need to be rebooted to overcome 'stalling' at critical workflow times. They all run the latest Yosemite OS.

We are so pleased with out MP6,1 12-core that to capitalize on year end expenses for equipment depreciation we have bought another MP6,1 6-core with the other components maxed out; 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM and dual D700s. If this Mac performs as does our 12-core (and we have no doubt that it will) we shall contemplate selling our MP5,1s or keep them as rental units which can fetch as much as $1800/month for the pair, which we've done in the past.
 
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You wrote
For those that bought one, how do you feel a year after it came out?


We are so pleased with out MP6,1 12-core that to capitalize on year end expenses for equipment depreciation we have bought another MP6,1 6-core with the other components maxed out; 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM and dual D700s. If this Mac performs as does our 12-core (and we have no doubt that it will not) we shall contemplate selling our MP5,1s or keep them as rental units which can fetch as much as $1800/month for the pair, which we've done in the past.

:)
Thanks for the post, bxs! I will be replacing my oMP with a nMP in the new year. Your post was helpful. Looking forward to more people posting who have actual experience with the 6,1.
 
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